[Closed] Skis....what to get?

Either head to 1 of the snow dome places with an Ellis Brigham attached and try several out or better still wait till you get to resort and go to a shop and speak to them. Several friends have done this, rented some good skis and swapped them to find what fitted them.

Or better again buy a board and really enjoy the time off piste. 😀

Board? Not sure my parents could live with the shame.....

🙂

Have tried a fair few at Hemel, as well as rentals when on holiday, butI feel like treating myself to another new toy!

Try some more. Only you know if a ski suits your style. There are masses of tests and comparatives on the Net to narrow it down at bit then borrow or rent. Unless you're going to somewhere that has really deep powder (the us) or are fat yourself then GS or slalom skis float nicely enough through powder and deal with most everything else a lot better than fat skis.

I do 95% of my skiing on Atomic Tour Guides from over 10 years ago which are the same shape as a GS ski but much lighter, and that despite having bling skis such as Dynastar 64 Omeglas and Atomic race GS in the cupboard.

Head I magnums or I speed??

I keep coming back to the Dynastar Sultan 85.

But you really do have to try them out - a couple of years ago I did all the research and selected 6 to try in the Manchester fridge. If I'd bought based on review etc I would have got the Fischer Watea but I tried it in two different widths and really didn't get on with it at all.

Like biking, it is my skill that holds me back, not the gear.
(Some £50 Kastle something or others second hand and a pair of hand-me-down Salomon Quest's do just fine, especially when most of my ski-ing is hike up and thump down on some rocky Scottish hillside. 🙂 )

Looks like a day at Hemel is going to have to happen! Enduro xt800 looks pretty tidy to me. Sultans could work too. Time to start narrowing down a short list....

I know you read French so [url= http://www.skipass.com/guide-matos/atomic/d2-race-gs.html ]Skipass reviews[/url] might help. The Atomic D2s in the link are what my son will be racing on this year and I'll be on the older version when I'll not pottering down on the Tour Guides. Banzai!!!!!!!

Nice link, thanks!

Looks like the XT800 is this year's equivalent of the Tornado. I did 3 days on a Tornado (Ti) a couple of years ago. It was a fine ski - very neutral and balanced. I just found the Dynastar a bit more fun - it egged me on a bit more than the Salomon.

If going to Hemel, make sure they have them in test facility as last time my wife went for new planks her favourites from reading the reviews weren't available to test.

Or be like 1 of my friends and spend the 6 days of the holiday trying out about 10 sets of skis and being so confused she bought none.

It's like asking - what tyre?

We're considering getting rid and hiring, thus getting up to date skis every season and not having to lug them around, servicing or paying carriage.
However, we have had some use in Britain over the last 2 winters, with all the brilliant snow.

I've head 2 pairs of head supershape magnums and I'd buy another in a heart beat. For a piste biased ski, ski they work surprisingly well off piste in fluffy stuff, crud or steeps. I doubt they'd work well at all for touring, but for everything else they work very well indeed.

How heavy and how aggressive a skier are you ?

Do you cruise about or pin it everywhere ?

I keep coming back to the Dynastar Sultan 85.

Yes the best ski's ever used to date! Had them for a week in La Plagne.

It's like asking - what tyre?

So so true. It really depends on your skiing style, agressiveness, how much off piste you really do, if you like a long turning radius or not. The ski companys that i think are really on top of their game though are salamon, obvious reasons. Theyve been tweaking their all mountain ski's for the past few years making them better and better. It was the scream, then the X-wing, not sure what it's called at the mo.

Volkl and Dynastar would be my other favourites, the volkl Unlimited range are a really nice all round ski geared more towards piste than off, they handle crud and powder good enough though (theyve changed the name of them this year though).

Movement make really nice ski's aswell, theyre swiss and they know there sh!t.

Btw, i hope you already have your own ski boots if you're buying ski's, a must to improve your technique, more important than having your own ski's for sure.

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I've been skiing these all last season. I think they're pretty much the perfect all-mountain ski.

They have, i think, a 14m radius - the same as my Dynastar Contact's - 92mm underfoot, can do groomer carving as well as any other piste skis I've used. Take powder, crud and hardpack well. The only thing is they are a bit long in the bumps (for me anyway) Some of the other instructors I work with gave a positive review too. If you can find a demo try them.

As others have said, volkl and dynastar are both good, find them both stiffer so if you're heavier or more aggressive and can get them to bend they're good, if you're a bit lighter I find K2 to be a bit easier to bend. Don't think too much of the lower end Salomon stuff but people really rate the 'Lord'

Skied with someone who owned Enduros and rated them, don't think they're all that 'turny' though.

Salomon race skis are great, but other stuff in their range imo is over hyped junk compared to what else you can get.

Dont get race skis they are too hard work for all day use, fantastic on a hard piste but will dive in any soft stuff.

Any modern ski will be good off piste as they have such huge surface area.

Always preferred the way a wood core ski feels.

Personally I just hire as per reasons bunnyhop says above.

Good advice all round, thanks.

Re build and style - am 'rugby' build 🙂 and only really get cruisy when chilling on a blue/green back home at the end of the day.

Renting does make a lot of sense, but reckon that having my own does too, as work/life schedule means I might well get more time on snow this year. (Work may well take me to spots close to Tahoe this year for example)

Boots - Salmon Impact 120CS, with footbeds and shell moulding. Super comfy, and just seem to work really well.

Salomon Sentinel?

If you are going near Tahoe, consider buying in resort. I bought my last pair in Whistler and got fantastic advice from a massive range, option to demo and a killer deal. Plus I only paid to transport them one way on the flight.

Regarding skis, it's a trade off, just like bikes, with skis anywhere from the bike equivalent of a race hardtail to a DH bike and anywhere in between.

Pick a 'genre' and underfoot width to help narrow it down, being honest about your skiing goals (don't just buy for this season - will you be 70% off piste in 1-2 years? Will a ski help you get there?)

Fatter gives more float in the powder but can be slower edge to edge.
Longer also floats better but harder to turn in.
Stiffer better at speed but harder to initiate turns so you need to be honest how aggressive and fast you are. As FD says, too stiff and hard will be too tiring, whereas too soft and floppy won't support you and will flap at speed.

I'm old school and used to teach and race. Once I got on the modern skis I went fatter and am now on 90mm underfoot (Line Prophet 90) and they are amazingly versatile from fast piste carving (wide open GS turns down Mont Vallon) and bumps, not too slow edge to edge but still have lots of float in deep pow.

If you're going more on piste than off, then the width under foot is important. Generally 85mm and over is considered more of an off piste ski (some people say 90mm and over), although a lot of them can perform well on piste too.
You probably want to look at a waist of about 72-79 mm.

If you are going to a big resort then maybe buy them out there.

Or better again buy a board and really enjoy the time off piste.

Why have one snowboard under your feet when you can have two 😀

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Salomon race skis are great, but other stuff in their range imo is over hyped junk compared to what else you can get

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I've known a few good skiers that use salomon, mates not pros.

There race ski's are very good though.

The resorts around Tahoe aren't particularly big, however they're diverse and if the snow's good then the off piste will be fantastic.

Hubby loves his 'Movements' ^^. Mine are some oldish Salomons, which seem to be o.k on or off piste.

Anyone seen the new Salomon BBR, hideous but very good apparently.
Someone said its like which tyres, more like which bike, Nukeproof Mega being your Salomon Enduro and some super lightweight XC whippet machine being your Volkl race tigers, which are awesome by the way if it's steep and hard packed.

Drop the edge by half a degree, sharpen to 88°, buff the last few cms at each end, steel scraper, orange-blue-orange-blue wax till there's no more black coming off with the plastic scraper, wax to temperature and braush to conditions, rainureuse, 4f surface wax, ski.

Find me a rental company that does all that and I'll take an interest in rental skis. Most get a machine wax if you are lucky and off you go. I'd rather ski a well-prepared ski from 15 years back than a new ski that hasn't been prepared. Well-prepared skis are much easier to ski, to the point a race ski is easier than a tourist ski from the rental shop.

Find me a rental company that does all that and I'll take an interest in rental skis.

Some rental places have 1000's of skis to service in twenty four hours. If they gave them that much attention they would never all get done!

Most people don't know about edge angles either.

Most people rent skis for a week so even if they come out of the shop's grind and wax machine the customer will be skiing on unwaxed bases by day two and blunt skis with sticky bases by the end of the week. I worked as a skiman in Val and only one pair of skis was hot-waxed each time they went out - the boss'. Some skis did much of the season with no maintenance.

Unwaxed skis stick on patches of damp snow and stick lots on fresh artifical snow. Blunt skis are hard work and lack precision.

Most people taking out rental ski's probably won't notice or care. Ive never taught some one who's complained about unwaxed or blunt ski's.

Educator - that's very interesting and good to know.
My salomon skis are getting on abit now (6 years). The chap in the French ski shop, said ' Wow old style'. However they forget that we 'recreational skiers' will only be out on the piste for a couple of weeks a year.

Because they don't know better, Michael. They don't know there struggling with sticky, imprecise skis with no grip except maybe at the exptremties where the edge should have been buffed to make the ski more forgiving.

I met an English pro cyclist training in Tignes on X-C skis and struggling along - pas de montée on the flat. The bases were in a terrible state so I sugggested he ask the shop to wax them. The next day he was out again, gliding better and making much better progress; learning the pas de vitesse in couple of hours.

Edit: the big advances in ski design were made over 15 years ago, Bunnyhop. Six-year-old skis will ski much like the latest ones if you put them through a machine that fills the holes, grinds the base, grinds the edges (ask for 0.5°/89° if the machine can be adjusted) and waxes them in one go.

Pah 88!? Go 87 its what all the kids are doing nowadays!

With well prepped skis you'll be stood up, passing folk who are on rentals in a full tuck!

I always do a full prep on my own skis - edge file and polish, hot scrape, wax, scrape, structure etc. When the Mrs used bought her own after 3-4 years of learning on rentals, I gave the new skis the same treatment and she was blown away - instantly using less effort, carving easier, gliding the flat bits with no pushing.

Only problem is I have double the work every trip now, she won't let me not do it! She's a stylish but cautious black run level and can really benefit from a good prep.

I'd say the average skier has no experience but when they have felt the difference, they will know!

[url= http://www.igneousskis.com/ ]Igneous Skis[/url] because It's all about the core. And as soon as I stop spending money on bikes I might save up enough for a pair.

I bought some new skis this year, a set of 2011 Atomic Blackeye Ti's in the sales. I've only had a week on them so far and primarily bought them on the basis of all the reviews.

My prior faves were the Dynastar Sultan 80 / 85s mentioned above. The Sultan's are a great all round ski for what you describe, and I'm not convinced the Blackeye's are any better apart from off piste. The nomad's are a bit heavier, but they are more stable off the piste and when it gets "chattery" in the crud.

You really need to do less than 70% on-piste for these type of ski's to make sense as they are quite a compromise over a full on carver.

I swapped ski's with an instructor for some piste work. He was using Tiger Sharks, which granted area pure carving piste ski, but the atomics just felt dead in comparison.
By his own admission the Sharks were very well prepped, and they were by far the best pair of Ski's I've ridden. The edge grip was incredible.

I'm still happy with the Atomics however as they let you cover most of the bases (for me at Level 5 ish) on a single ski. They are a compromise though; so if you're spending your own cash on a pair be true to how much off-piste you do, and think about hiring on the days you want something a bit wider / longer.

The Fischer Wateas are also worth a look at the same price as the Dynastars, Atomics etc, though I've never found a Fischer I've liked (in fairness I've only tried a couple).

Edukator - do you know any reputable shops in the Midlands, London or Leeds for a full service? 🙂

Anyone seen the new Salomon BBR, hideous but very good apparently.

Tried 'em. Great, but looked so silly I couldn't bring myself to use them full time...! 🙂

I agree with Edukator about waxing and servicing OP, you need to be sure the shop you go to uses hot wax if you want a good service. If you look really naieve and don't know what you're talking about they'll probably just run them through the machine. The wax from machines comes off in a couple of runs btw, most people i know carry around their own pocket wax now to top up on the slopes.

[url= http://www.worden.fr/ ]All you need to DIY[/url]

That's why I carry some rub on wax and a diamond file. It's embarassing if someone paying nearly $700 for a day of lessons with you then has problems with their rental/own kit. I would also do a free hand tune for clients, or if their base was not flat help them to get a good deal with a shop tune. Even skis tuned properly could have the wrong wax for the conditions that day.

someone paying nearly $700 for a day of lessons with you

Edit (is that Canadian dollars?)

You've read it correctly and all dollars are worth about the same these days.

$700 a day? Holycrapola! For that, I'd expect you to ski for me! And open my beer in the evening!

😉

I've had some great instructors in the past, but for $700 a [b][i]DAY[/i][/b] you had better be able to make me ski like Doug Coombs!

Fair enough - everyone has to earn a living 🙂

Is there a helicopter involved?

That money goes straight into Vail Resorts pockets. Most instructors will make less than $15ph for that day.

edit - lift pass is extra!

Pretty good DIY guide here too:
http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/content/category/5/14/34/

It's embarassing if someone paying nearly $700 for a day of lessons

Are you an ISTD or similar?

I have a pair of K2 Apache Recons which are a few years old they get used on piste. The new K2 charger is similar but has rocker technology and they are good.

Last year I treated myself to a new pair of powder skis and bought some Line "Sir Francis Bacons" they are 115mm under foot but are not too deadly edge to edge on piste and they are awesome off piste.

I am about 13.5stone 5'11 and I am an OK skier not brilliant but not crap. I used to ski about 5 weeks a year then I did a season in Val D'isere 2 years ago where I got in 90 days skiing.

I am quite happy with the above skis.

The assumption on this thread seems to be that off-piste means powder or soft snow. Over a typical winter that's far from the case. You're as likely to find glassy, hard conditions as fresh powder and hard crusted snow is common. On steep ice a 20-year-old pair of almost parallel Yetis will beat any modern parabolic ski for avoiding terminal velocity.

On hard wind-blown snow with patches of soft deposits a GS ski is a better option than floppy wide things that will scrabble for grip on steep hard ground. With the wide, parabolic designs you end up with the talon and spatule (heel and tip?) taking the load (and twisting horribly) whilst the patin (the bit under the boot) bounces uselessly in fresh air. Some very parabolic touring skis appeared a few years ago, frightened their users and have fallen from favour. Most of the people I ski with are back on skis with a GS profile.

Edukator who did you work for in Val ?

Ski Love, La Daille.

Edit, that was in 87, I've just Googled it and it no longer seems to exist.

That most have been a fair few years ago ?

LOL pass in the post 🙂

some good advice so far ...

as a recreational skier don't get dragged into too wide a ski ( ie 100mm waist plus ) not so great on ice unless you have good technique, also rocker is a friend is soft snow but cuts down the contact in the ice

for the record a few skis i like, volkl kendo, scott mission , fischer watea ( scott / fisher same ski under the skin )

k2 skis are nice, poppy and fun (we have 2 sets in the house )

like bikes demo days are a great way to try before you buy, most euro ski shops have demo stations and nearly all the shops sell the rental kit at the end of the season so can be the bargain of the year if you time it right

@micheal - that's the going rate at Breckenridge and for that, if you don't request your instructor, you could potentially end up with someone uncertified.

@bunnyhop - I heliskied in NZ for 6 lifts and that worked out cheaper than a one day private lesson at Breck.

Cheers Gravity. I spotted lots of recommendations for him on Snowheads & he seems to have a very good rep. As he's pretty close I think I'll be using him rather than the DIY route.

Edukator without being rude your coming across a bit anal with all your Ski set up 🙂 workman always blames his tools and all that....

Hire skis are fine, ok the edges can be a bit crap but that can be sorted in 5 mins with a file. I wouldn't have a clue what edge angle I get them too but it does work, and besides depending on the ski and the conditions, depends what and where should be blunt or Sharp. I agree that hired skis don't always get the best wax, but I just take them back and get them re done if needs be. I've never had a bad hire ski since I stopped racing and hence started hiring.

Edukator - Member
The assumption on this thread seems to be that off-piste means powder or soft snow. Over a typical winter that's far from the case. You're as likely to find glassy, hard conditions as fresh powder and hard crusted snow is common. On steep ice a 20-year-old pair of almost parallel Yetis will beat any modern parabolic ski for avoiding terminal velocity.

You forgot to mention the death cookies! 😯 🙂

True out of all weeks I've been skiing I've had very few powder days, i can probably cound those on one hand. Most of the time its icey, cruddy and just generally cut up from everyone elses tracks. Still beats skiing on piste for me though! I only like on piste if its quiet really.

Well, FunkyDunk, my wife is one of the work(wo)men that use the tools I prepare and she won the French winter triathlon championship on X-C skis I prepared. My son races downhill and has competed in the French championship though is still a long way off winning it. I can't claim great things for myself unless you count age group wins and 6th scratch. We usually manage at least one podium a year when skiing as a team in ski-alpinisme races.

So give a good work(wo)man good tools and (s)he'll do a good job. Maybe if you'd had better prepared skis... .

grinds the edges (ask for 0.5°/89° if the machine can be adjusted)

As an ex-ski tuner all i can say is the only ski that will turn properly is a non-railed, base filed ski. Don't EVER put edge high skis through a stone. The stone is only there to add structure to the base (think grooves), structuring edges is a very bad thing. If the ski is also edge high it will not turn over very easily and your edge bevel angle will make no difference. Having taught for years (and yes I am qualified), and also taught instructors you can make a 'non' skier actually learn properly on well prepared skis. Flat base (hand file it), stone, edge file and bevel, clean, wax. Done. Unless you damage the base you shoudl be able to keep them flat quite easily from there. I used to go through 2 pairs of skis a season working 6 days a week and skiing 7 for around 43 weeks a year.

Rossignol S86s seem to have had good reviews for being to do anything, eg:

http://www.epicski.com/products/2011-rossignol-s86-freeride-ski/reviews/1637

strangley it has been discontinued and there is no direct replacment - maybe rossi didn't want to see a do-everything ski as that might reduce ski sales.

There are still some knocking about.

The Sultan 85 also seems to have good reviews although not quite so much as a do-everything ski.

I wanted to replace my Bandits and took a punt on the S86s as I have always liked Rossi skis, and nearly always disliked Salomon skis.

Edukator - I was hoping this wouldnt decend in to willy waving but I guess I'll join in... 🙂

I only raced to International standard, and never did that great, however I did hold a FIS licence for 3 years. I also in my time have been a qualified instructor as well. I also spent alot of time with the Bell brothers when I was younger (ok they were not that great either).

IMO and experience the initial prep of a base can make a difference if your racing, but then you need multiple sets of skis to get skis for the right conditions. All the top races would have technicians to do this form them, but come race day the edges would always be fininshed by hand with an edge file dependant on the conditions.

For average Joe Bloggs there is no need whatsoever to get so detailed about base grinds and how to sharpen an edge. Also XC skis are in no way remotely like DH skis.

Although modern skis have made life easier for average skiers, they do unfortunately now make people think they need more than 1 set of skis to get down stuff, I guess like mountain bikes.

Everyone is different but these days I like a de tuned type GS ski, so its not hard work all day, can be used very easily off piste in any condition but will still be ok on ice and piste.

Can I just chip in to say that I am a very average skier but do enjoy it?

I'm particularly fond of the peach or black cherry ones.

I think I may be a little better than average - maybe an expert-average, or advanced-intermediate-average?

Hopefully not average-dd (double-dose)

😆

@deepreddave - lol

A good thread but can we keep it light?[img] [/img]

Where are you going to ski CFH...?
Considering you won't buy the same skis for different resort/region, I would choose carefully.
If you're going around here, I can point you toward the best skiman around.

🙂 @ yoghurt!
juan, most likely going to be based at Serre Che, possibly other Alpine spots, but hoping to get out to Japan next year (assuming work are paying for flights! 😉 )

There is only one more to add to this willy waving contest and the STW ski team is complete!

well are you driving/flying to serre che?
Can you stretch to Nice? There is someone you may want to talk to 😉

Waxing and base preparation of skate X-C and downhill skis is identical. The French squads in three disciples have combined their efforts on base preparation which goes some way to expalin the excellent result across biathlon, downhill and X-C. They took their own machine with them to the Olympics.

It's a ski thread, it was bound to end in willy waving, go back to my first quote on ski preparation a few pages back and you xon't go far wrong if you want your ski to be performant and easy to ski.

Have you seen the latest machines NZCol. The old Wintersteiger that just gave a flat base with two possible finishes is a thing of the past. Why would you want an "edge high ski". Edge high is considered a defect solved by grinding the base then dropping the edges by between .5 and 1.5° and then sharpening to taste. Always put edge-high skis through a stone, or bin them.

Unless you holidaying a whole bunch just rent your skis and look for a higher performance rental.
Most resorts (certainly North America) will rent the latest and greatest ski's.

Invest only in a well fitting boot that will last you for 10 years. A set of skis will be out dated and the next fun concept will be out next year.
Plus, if you buy a groomer ski and get a big snow day, you're stuck with what you have. At least with rentals you can go and swap out your groomer ski for a pow cheater ski and have a blast!

Only 1 week a year and there's no chance you'll get any continuity anyway of your own skis, so you may as well let some one else do the service, storage and not have to bother travelling with them.

/2c

Just found this and, as by far the best skier here, thought I'd chip in

Unfortunately, too much sense has already been talked. I've used hire skis for years now and It'll be a long time before I consider buying skis again, now that I've ceased dominating the world cup circuit.

(anyone want a pair of salomon x-mountains ? PR8 I think, mismatched bindings, hand-serviced by the greatest living technician)

So which one of you lot are going to tell us you are also better than Danny Hart? 🙄

Danny who?

There are rumours that Chemmy Alcott is going to be on Strictly come dancing this weekend. Shame it's not Aksel Lund Svindal. Swoon.

Julia Mancuso!!

I do believe that Julia and Aksel are a couple.