I know that there’s a certain type of person obsessed with the internal power struggles within the labour party,
Says the man who never misses an opportunity to post a picture of Derek Hatton. Is he your screensaver? You have an unhealthy obsession with him 🙂
If you've always been precariously employed, probably never a member of a union or been on strike and not a habitual reader then you would be susceptible to all the right wing crap attacking the left.
David Cameron saying all the things Keir Starmer should be. You couldn't make it up. 😂
If David Cameron had any self-awareness he'd stay in his ****ing shepherds hut and STFU!
I note he's recommending all the things he could have done while in power, but didn't
If David Cameron had any self-awareness he’d stay in his ****ing shepherds hut and STFU!
Listen to what he's saying though. What does it tell you? It tells you that the tories are moving on from neo-liberal small state austerity driven economics and are moving with the tide of economic transformation being forced by climate change, automation and covid. The tories are positioning themselves for the future whilst Starmer is stuck in the 1990s talking about fiscal responsibility and 'backing business'. Christ, if we carry on like this I might end up voting tory myself.
You know that 'Dave' isn't prime minister any more, don't you?
He can say what he likes. Remember this?
And his promise to be 'The Greenest Government ever'? What happened to that? Shall I remind you?
David Cameron at centre of 'get rid of all the green crap' storm
Good luck with your Tory voting if you expect that Boris and chums will have any firmer a commitment to your green agenda
The tories are positioning themselves for the future whilst Starmer is stuck in the 1990s talking about fiscal responsibility and ‘backing business’.
Cameron is just doing the same as Blair and Brown... making a claim for the much derided "centre"... knowing their former PM status means they'll get some press... the fact that they may look as if they are trying to pull their parties in different directions is because the assumptions that surround their parties give them very different starting positions. They are aiming for the same practical position... the government needs to intervene to shape the market for private companies to move us away from fossil fuel and production at speed.
Both parties now want to be seen to do both of the following things... use the state (including state spending) to transform things... and to also have a handle on the finances. Starmer is addressing a public that thinks that Labour are motivated to do the former, but can't be trusted on the later. It's nonsense of course, but that is what the public think... and that is what he must address. That the Tories don't seem to have to put as much effort into doing the same, is, well... that's where we are... for now... frustrating as it is.
Sounds lovely jubbly but is as likely as his Big Society. I think the tories will try to encourage private industry to reflate by deregulating eg planning and we end end with loads of design and build crap on greenfield sites. Sunak's extension of the stamp-duty holiday seems to reflect that they are worried about land and property values whereas the opposition should be raising homelessness, cladding, joblessness and the casualisation of the workforce.
The press and the beeb are busily creating a carnival atmosphere for easing lockdown and a sudden new concern for underprivileged children but saying nothing about impending economic dislocation, who's making the money and who's being punished.
NB didn't the tories grant permission for a new coal mine? Very * green.
if you expect that Boris and chums will have any firmer a commitment to your green agenda
You're completely missing the point. The tories have recognised that the world is changing and are pivoting to take advantage of the new zeitgeist. What are labour doing? They're talking about stuff that people thought was important in the 1990s. It's pathetic.
They’re talking about stuff that people thought was important in the 1990s.
No, they are addressing the concerns of many voters. Now. It is not either/or Dazh... you have to promise the spending and look responsible. You are cheering on the Tories as they attempt to offer/promise both... and deriding Starmer when he does the same trick (and it is a trick... proposing increased investment while also pandering to what the public think they know about macro-economics is the game all politicians must play... likewise being interventionist while also not deriding business).
You are cheering on the Tories
I'm not cheering on the tories FFS I'm pointing out that once again they are far ahead of labour in figuring out what people want and what will win/keep them in power.
Yes. Yes they are.
Good luck with your Tory voting if you expect that Boris and chums will have any firmer a commitment to your green agenda
I won't be voting Tory, but this government is pouring billions into green infrastructure at the moment. Labour may as well swap their union jacks for white flags, such is their lack of response.
The Tories are the party of telling the public they'll do whatever the public wants them to.
Turns out, its more popular with the public than actually doing stuff that is for the public good.
And here it comes.
Labour are utterly hopeless in
a situation where they should be smacking Boris between the chops with ideas.
Lmfao at the stupid investment bond BTW. Purile.
Ooh ooh let's be prudent on the economy Sir. They couldn't be more out of touch with what should be native to them - helping folks out of the shit.
And now Starmer says he’ll oppose tory corporation tax increases. He’s clearly concluded that the UK is so right wing that the only option s to be further to the right than Boris. F****** clueless.
The government needs to spend, and get business to invest, to claw the UK out of our unique double whammy downturn caused by a poor Covid response and broken Brexit deal. Now is not the time for tax rises. Borrow and print. But be clear that it’s prudent because we need to invest heavily to avoid stagnation on the outside edge of the world we’ve perched ourselves on. Transformation requires large scale investment… we have voted ourselves into a position where that transformation is not optional, and must be undertaken at speed. You can’t just vote to turn all our trading and other arrangements upside down and expect the public sector, cooperations, SMEs and all organisations to pivot to the new reality we have forced on them without it costing. Lots. Raising taxes on businesses while also forcing them to invest in transformation will break the country. Many are poised to make decisions about relocation, or closure, or divesting and reducing their UK exposure. Don’t push them with tax rises as well.
Kelvin did you copy that from a Keith Joseph speech? I’m flabbergasted that Starmer and his cheerleaders now sound more right wing than the real thing. Maybe the red wallers saw something the rest of us didn’t?
https://twitter.com/tomkibasi/status/1364680421406109700?s=21
Now you’re stuck in the past.
Christ, if we carry on like this I might end up voting tory myself.
It happens to a lot of people as they age. Once you are over 50 the likelihood is that you will be swinging towards tory so it wouldn't be unusual if you become a tory voter so don't worry about it.
It happens to a lot of people as they age. Once you are over 50 the likelihood is that you will be swinging towards tory so it wouldn’t be unusual if you become a tory voter so don’t worry about it.
It's said that some people become more right wing as they age, so it's fortunate that Labour is providing a political home for them.
The Tories are the party of telling the public they’ll do whatever the public wants them to.
Turns out, its more popular with the public than actually doing stuff that is for the public good.
And therein lies the danger. Still, their grandees arevtryingbto set the tone
The Tories are the party of telling the public they’ll do whatever the public wants them to.
The Tories are the party of telling the public they’ll do whatever the public wants them to, Hammond on the Beeb today saying the public need some home truths. Not sure he and I agree on what they should be though.
It must be difficult for Starmer now he knows what he does about the average former Red Wall voter.
Apparently they're very keen on nationalism in the areas of foreign policy, law and order etc. But at the same time, on the economic front, very keen on socialism - so long as they get all the benefits themselves.
You might almost term it Nationalist-Socialism. But this is a bit of a mouthful. I'm sure there must be a punchy abbreviation for this ideology, I just can't quite put my finger on it...
It happens to a lot of people as they age.
Think I get more left wing TBH, and for the record I’ll be voting green at the next election if they stand (they didn’t last time) or for no one if they don’t.
I'll be voting tactically for the result to be anyone but the tories.
We don't have an hour to dig out your point Bill... what does the video say about Keir Starmer?
Interesting interaction with Jones re Corbyn and he sees Starmer as a ham-fisted reactionary. Well worth the hour, whoever you prefer, very engaging.
I would rather remove my own kidneys with a teaspoon
TBF, Alexi Sayle is a communist. anyone slightly to the right of Lenin, is a ham fisted reactionary.
I would rather remove my own kidneys with a teaspoon
I think you're probably better off watching some Nick Clegg stuff 😉
I'm interested in ideas I might disagree with but am interested in how they develop an argument but its not everyone's cup of tea. I had a lot of laughs though.
Think I get more left wing TBH, and for the record I’ll be voting green at the next election if they stand (they didn’t last time) or for no one if they don’t.
I can't say the same as I haven't been on any Socialist worker stuff since my late teens!
But good to see some people hold onto their sense of fairness and what is right rather than throwing it all away once you are comfortable/well set in life.
TBF, Alexi Sayle is a communist. anyone slightly to the right of Lenin, is a ham fisted reactionary.
Probably still not left enough for some posters.
So Starmer is positioning himself to the right of a borderline far-right government 'to be electable', which isn't actually working. Awesome.
To the right? You mean not espousing austerity as we try to build out of a partly self imposed down turn? Now is he worst time to increase taxes, just as it is also the worst time to reduce benefits.
I think Starmer is wrong on this one & probably u-turn incoming
maybe its just next level 3d-chess, until we see the budget we wont know for sure & you can bet some of the swivel eyed Tory backbenchers will rebel
is starmer trying to get the budget voted down??
Starmer has an image problem, in that he is not 'bad ass' or 'cool' enough.
It's a shame because mimisters should not be bad ass, they should be measured and stable and fair.
Hopefully the Trump effect will wear off soon and we can get back to stable and measured 'boring' politics. Like a bad fart in the room, the populism thing will pass.
To the right? You mean not espousing austerity as we try to build out of a partly self imposed down turn? Now is he worst time to increase taxes, just as it is also the worst time to reduce benefits.
Admittedly he is caught up by the fact that Labour have played along with whole 'there's no magic money tree' myth for years because they are too scared of confronting it head on. So now they have to try and act tough on 'balancing the books', but the Tories don't. It's a very weird situation we are in now.
Starmer has an image problem, in that he is not ‘bad ass’ or ‘cool’ enough.
I think it's more about having a personality and seeming human. Much as I think Johnson is an utter **** he has some kind of charisma.
He’s too dull to become PM right now in our current political landscape, and I suspect little will have changed in that respect by 2024… I really hope I’m wrong.
He’s too dull to become PM right now in our current political landscape, and I suspect little will have changed in that respect by 2024… I really hope I’m wrong.
I don't think you are wrong as nothing will change in 3 or 4 years. Need a lot of focus groups specifically on Starmer to see how he is coming across with a cross section of the public (rather than polls).
If the public actually think he is okay and a better bet than Johnson then fine, the work is on communication and selling the party.
If the public think he is too dull and that would impact their voting then he needs to be replaced.
The obvious challenge is who with as they have to be an Labour MP don't they.
Will Sir be shouting about no NHS pay rise in the budget or no rises in corporation tax?
Today he thinks nuclear weapons are the important thing to be talking about. He couldn’t be more out of touch if he tried. It’s getting quite funny now.
Imagine his face this morning when he found out he'd need to take a position on the US bombing Syria. Or will he just wait to see what Boris says and nod in agreement?
