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but the public need to feel that he is being unveiled by all, not just attacked by the leader of the opposition
Oh FGS stop making excuses. Starmer is the leader of the opposition, the statutory and most senior person empowered to hold the government and the PM to account. It's literally his job, and his duty, to hold their feet to the fire when they've screwed up, and if necessary to demand their resignations when they have been proven to have broken all the standards and conventions expected of them. If he won't do it who the hell else will?
That is exactly what he is doing. And I've characterised Johnson's response, which is mostly working. So far. Oh, hang you, is it just the lack of "calling for the PM to resign" that you think is missing? That would achieve bugger all right now.
I specifically stated it was leader vs leader at time of election, NOT historical voting numbers.
So presumably the reason Nigel Farage's party never won more than one seat in Westminster was because he was never remotely as popular as the other party leaders of the time.
Your theory seems somehow flawed.
Tbh I think it's this attaching so little importance to policy that helps to explain why the Labour Party is currently in such dire straits.
The Tories appear to have learnt from the 2017 general election result in which the Labour Party gained millions more votes and they lost their parliamentary majority, the present Labour leadership has not.
Which is why Johnson now portrays the Tories as the government of radical change. The government which supports economic intervention and investment, increased tax burden on corporations, respecting referendum results, etc.
In contrast Starmer prefers to be seen as cautious and conservative, he seems to think that strategy will win him votes.
That would achieve bugger all right now.
I'm not naive enough to thik just because the LOTO demands resignations that they will do it, but when it's required it absolutely has to be said. If he won't say it, who will? More to the point if he won't say it because it's not politically advantageous, then why should anyone trust him to be better? Demanding the resignation of the govt is not something to do routinely, but in these circumstances it's completely justified, and Starmer needs to show some leadership.
In contrast Starmer prefers to be seen as cautious and conservative, he seems to think that strategy will win him votes.
Perhaps at some point all the constant chaos created by Johnson and his team will have people wanting someone who is "cautious and conservative", but with modern left leaning policies that benefit all. I'm sceptical, but you can hope I suppose. Starmer would make a great PM in my opinion, judged in isolation never mind against how poor a PM Johnson is... but people aren't voting based on who would govern well these days, are they. It's all about taking sides "against" the others. Johnson is great at mobilising these forces, and making it all a bit of an easy to consume laugh for the half engaged voter.
If he won’t say it, who will?
Why say it now? When Johnson then doesn't go, Starmer just looks even weaker. What's the point?
Starmer would make a great PM,
On what evidence? He can't even manage a small shadow cabinet reshuffle without causing chaos and losing all authority, what makes you think he could form a successful government?
Ok Keir, your move...
kelvin
Full MemberWhy say it now? When Johnson then doesn’t go, Starmer just looks even weaker. What’s the point?
Um. The opposition doesn't have to achieve everything it calls for. It doesn't become pointless for Starmer to say "Johnson must go" just because he doesn't, the point is the condemnation itself and to keep attention on the total shitshow of a government and how they've fallen apart. But it does become pointless for Starmer to even exist, if he doesn't come out strong on this.
The question of "if he leaves now who replaces him" is usually a good one. But if he doesn't go on the offensive on this, it makes that question irrelevant, because his role could just be left empty.
He has gone on the offensive. Calling for an inquiry to come sooner, so that the evidence to it can be public before the next election, is the right move. The allegations against Johnson need to be made accepted truth, not just accusations coming from the opposition, and those no longer in government with a personal axe to grind, because otherwise the “they would say that, wouldn’t they” line will work with voters who have to be peeled off from voting for Johnson and his band of robbers and chancers.
Calling for an inquiry to come sooner
Woo! Inspiring stuff! I’m sure that’ll get the red wall back on board.
Socialism is based on principles of equality. Zionism privileges one group over another. Therefore a 'Zionist socialist' is an oxymoron and that's the core conundrum facing Sturmer.
So presumably the reason Nigel Farage’s party never won more than one seat in Westminster was because he was never remotely as popular as the other party leaders of the time.
Your theory seems somehow flawed.
Not at all. Farage wasn't leader of a big party like Labour or Tory. If another person was running UKIP rather than Farage they wouldn't have had such an impact, no where close.
The Tories appear to have learnt from the 2017 general election result in which the Labour Party gained millions more votes and they lost their parliamentary majority, the present Labour leadership has not.
In 2017 Corbyn was actually popular but even then May was slightly more popular and May was awful. A few years later when Corbyn had really blown it along comes Boris (a MUCH more popular leader than Corbyn or May) and look what happens.
Go out and talk to some of the 80% of idiot voters and ask them about why they vote. Clue, it won't be the policies or the 'vision' of the party.
Kerley you are judging a leaders popularity on how well their party does in elections.
Keir unquestionably needs to grow a pair. He is not cutting through because he is not trying to cut through.
Calling for an inquiry to be brought forward?! This is underarm bowling for the Tories. No it's worse, it's throwing the ball at the boundary and laying on a spread of sandwiches.
Also I think Keir could still win an election if he changes tact and some other things going his way.
In 2017 Corbyn was actually popular but even then May was slightly more popular and May was awful
When Theresa May called a completely unnecessary general election in 2017 every single opinion poll was showing an absolutely massive Tory lead, far far greater than the lead the Tories are enjoying today.
According to your logic that reflected the popularity of Theresa May.
And yet despite that, after just a few weeks of political campaigning, Labour went on to massively increase their vote compared to 2 years previously and achieved the best result since 1997.
Your theory that the electorate aren't interested in policy and only care whether they like the party leader simply doesn't stack up.
Whilst I go out and ask "the idiot voters" why they vote, why don't you check the link below to see just how massive the Tory lead was, far far greater than any recognised margin of error.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_United_Kingdom_general_election
I agree @BillMC
And the trouble is if SKS is saying there's nothing wrong with setting society up to benefit the dominant majority at the expense of 'others', well... there's a UK party that already caters for that kind of thinking, with more conviction, and they are rather popular.
Your theory that the electorate aren’t interested in policy and only care whether they like the party leader simply doesn’t stack up.
The electorate isn't one person. I (think) I vote on policy alone. For many people it'll be a combination of policy and historical connection with the party, and they'll put up with whoever is party leader. For others, enough to swing elections for sure, they are electing a PM they feel will act for them, and who's attitude they like. For others they are partly voting to keep out someone they feel very negative about.
Also I think Keir could still win an election
He won't do that because that's not his job. His singular task is to reduce/remove the power and influence of the membership and the unions so that the party is under full control of elite corporate interests and in no danger of losing it like they did in 2015.
I note this morning he's completely absent from the news. The government has just been accused by one of its former chief of staff of killing tens of thousands of its own citizens through its negligence, dishonesty, incompetence and arrogance, and then the PM made light of that fact by joking about being the mayor of jaws. Starmer should be all over every news channel calling for heads to roll. Instead he wheels out Rayner to call for an inquiry. Even now he's scared of rocking the boat.
Socialism is based on principles of equality. Zionism privileges one group over another. Therefore a ‘Zionist socialist’ is an oxymoron and that’s the core conundrum facing Sturmer.
The problem with using such reductionism is that it ignores the incredible complexity, and nuance, in the whole issue of Jewish self-determination, social, cultural and ideological freedom that lies at the heart of Zionist philosophy. To condemn Zionism thus, is akin to the 'all lives matter' type of rhetoric spouted by the right.
Zionism privileges one group over another
This is a common misconception for a start. There are forms of 'Zionism' that do this, but to bluntly state thus, starts to wander towards the line of anti-Semitism. There are plenty of Zionists who are bitterly opposed to the actions of the Israeli state, and as I said earlier; Zionism isn't one single idea. I myself support the right to self-determination for all people, and that includes Jewish people, who if they feel they need a state in order to enjoy that right of self-determination, then that should be supported. Many of the early pioneers who founded kibbutzim in Palestine, were horrified once they saw what transpired throughout the formation of modern Israel. These would have been the Socialist/Marxist Zionists, a mix of liberal and Bundist Jews from the US and Europe. There are many Zionists arguing for a two-state solution, and for balance there are Palestinians who support a single state where Palestinians and Jews are represented equally. Fact is, Israel isn't going to suddenly disappear. But what should be happening, is international condemnation of the Israeli regime, and suitable sanctions/actions to force that regime to stop it's genocidal campaign. Armest is unsurprisingly silent on this, as he's gutless. Modern Israel acts as a 'bridge' to Middle Eastern resources, and the recent talks of developing economic relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, is all part of that plan. Biden, who has now shown his true colours regarding Israel and Palestine, by sanctioning a £500+ billion arms deal with Israel, is very keen to ensure the continued flow of money from the region; Christians, Muslims and Jews all working in complete harmony. How wonderful. Western leaders have shown time and again, that they don't genuinely give a shit about the Palestinians, and historically, neither have most of the neighbouring Muslim nations such as Egypt, Jordan, SA etc. As long as Israel is buying billions worth of weapons from us, we don't need to worry. But I will reiterate; for a Labour leader to ignore the treatment of the Palestinians by a belligerent, heavily armed apartheid state, makes a mockery of Labour's pledge to not tolerate racism, fascism and oppression of people, of any kind.
Bridges can you do me a favour, could you put some paragraphs in your posts?
I'm reasonably interested in what you have to say but I'll be ****ed if I'm going to wade through that lot.
Morgan pushed him for three policies off the bat he would introduce as prime minister.
"First, a first-class education for every child, the second thing is to make sure our economy deals with insecurity and inequality, and the third thing is to put real dignity into older age," said Sir Keir.
'We are going to make things more good. Instead of bad things, we will do the opposite'. Inspiring stuff.
He's using words that the 80% of the electorate who are too stupid, or too ****less to think for themselves, will understand
He’s using words that the 80% of the electorate who are too stupid, or too ****less to think for themselves, will understand
The trouble is that's also exactly what the tories say. Why would anyone switch their vote, or more importantly vote at all if all they're going to get is the same? Everyone in the country can agree on those things, but the major question is how is he going to do those things? I have absolutely no idea, and neither does anyone else.
The trouble is that’s also exactly what the tories say.
Well the Tories have been saying those things for their over ten years in power now, then doing the complete polar opposite, yet still getting repeatedly elected. So maybe it's worth a go at saying it and actually meaning it?
And hasn't Jo Biden just shown that its best not to go into the detail, but to announce it all when you've got elected by not scaring the horses? I see he's just suspended all the oil drilling licenses in Alaska. I don't remember hearing about the plan to do that.
Labours last 'a new policy on the hour, every hour' manifesto leading to a thumping great election defeat would also seem to support this theory. The Tory's manifesto at the same election, which they won by a landslide, consisted of three words, and those three words turned out to be a lie.
But what should be happening, is international condemnation of the Israeli regime, and suitable sanctions/actions to force that regime to stop it’s genocidal campaign.
Or the world can push Israel into the welcoming arms of China, which if happens, to form a truly lethal partnership.
He’s using words that the 80% of the electorate who are too stupid, or too ****less to think for themselves, will understand
Whatever words Labour/Starmer used, it will not have any impact whatsoever as Labour is simply unvotable for at least a generation or two.
I've read that bit I quoted a few times now and I still have no idea what it means.
I'm not sure tales of hanging out with George Clooney will help either.
I take the point about Joe Biden but the Democrats also mobilised massive grass roots campaigning to get people to vote in key areas - is that going to happen for SKS? I'm really not sure it is.
I’m not sure tales of hanging out with George Clooney will help either.
In our present vapid, vacuous, celebrity-obsessed culture? You're probably right. Far too high-brow. He should probably have gone with some Instagram influencers.
I take the point about Joe Biden but the Democrats also mobilised massive grass roots campaigning to get people to vote in key areas – is that going to happen for SKS? I’m really not sure it is.
You mean that in the USA the equivalent of groups like Momentum gritted their teeth and joined in with the effort to make sure Joe Biden got elected despite the fact that many saw him as too mainstream, and you can't see that happening in the UK? Then I agree with you, Labour is too interested in eating itself
He made efforts to reach out to all the sectors of the party and make sure they felt like they were on board/could have some influence in the future. Do you think SKS is doing that?
Re the celeb anecdotes:
"Politicians and especially Labour are out of touch metropolitan liberal elitist snobs"
"Yeah but did you hear about that time I drank expensive wine with George Clooney and his high-flying human rights lawyer wife?"
And hasn’t Jo Biden just shown that its best not to go into the detail, but to announce it all when you’ve got elected by not scaring the horses? I see he’s just suspended all the oil drilling licenses in Alaska. I don’t remember hearing about the plan to do that.
Do keep up. That was simply part of his pre-election commitment to reducing US emissions etc as part of the plan to get back on track with the Paris agreement, and it's simply reversing some of the damage Trump did by totally going against pre-existing Obama-era plans to cut fossil fuel extraction, production and pollution. I'm sure Sleepy Joe will be right on the fact you weren't informed though; I imagine he has a crack team of people on the case as we speak...
Biden has sanctioned £735 million worth of arms sales to Israel though, so perpetuating that lucrative money stream to the US is obviously of more importance than achieving peace in the region.
You mean that in the USA the equivalent of groups like Momentum gritted their teeth and joined in with the effort to make sure Joe Biden got elected despite the fact that many saw him as too mainstream, and you can’t see that happening in the UK? Then I agree with you, Labour is too interested in eating itself
Here, it was the Labour right that didn't bother getting involved with election campaigning like groups such as Momentum. It was literally their job to 'grit their teeth', accept the mandate handed down by party members, and get fully behind the party leader at the time. Instead, they spend most of their time trying to smear Corbyn, and undermine the party's chances at any possible opportunity. Instead of talking to the voters, which is kind of what you're supposed to do if you want to be elected to represent them, they were talking to the right wing media instead. Obviously the Telegraph, Daily Mail and Spectator are more important than the electorate. Be interested in seeing how Armresters apply their revisionism to that one.
Do keep up. That was simply part of his pre-election commitment to reducing US emissions etc as part of the plan to get back on track with the Paris agreement, and it’s simply reversing some of the damage Trump did by totally going against pre-existing Obama-era plans to cut fossil fuel extraction, production and pollution.
Morning Comrade. Maybe you should try keeping up?
I get why he did it, but thanks for your incredibly patronising explanation, none the less. It's the 'how' I'm interested in, because thats what we need to take note of.
Biden will have made some vague noises about the Paris accords and clean air and saving fwuffy bunny wabbits and all that, but he didn't come out and say 'we're going to shut down oil production in Alaska' because he knows that for every vote that won him in a Seattle Starbucks it would lose him 100 votes with Billy-Bob and Cletus in Shitsville, Idaho looking out of the window at their 7 litre Chevy pick ups and their divine god-given right to drive around doing 8mpg.
Morning, Billy.
So; basically, Armrest should just keep quiet about what he plans to do, announce no policies at all, in order to get elected?
Isn't that approach the reason why he's lagging so far behind Boris, and why many people have no idea what he and Labour actually stand for? Please explain how that's going to work out, because I, and I'm sure most of the Labour party, are dying to know...
Maybe you should try keeping up?
Oh I do, don't worry. It's how I know things you don't.
Armrest, hilarious.
Well comrade, most of us mere mortals can never even begin to aspire to be half as clever as you think you are.
No, that's true. But you can at least make a bit more effort, surely?
Armrest, hilarious
Isn't it? Genius! 😀
Well the Tories have been saying those things for their over ten years in power now, then doing the complete polar opposite, yet still getting repeatedly elected. So maybe it’s worth a go at saying it and actually meaning it?
Ah yes the 'say the same things and hope the voters choose the more competent looking leader' strategy. That's working a treat isn't it after Starmer was made to look like an idiot by Angela 'council estate scum' Rayner and Boris has vaccinated over half the country.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">And hasn’t Jo Biden just shown that its best not to go into the detail, but to announce it all when you’ve got elected by not scaring the horses? </span>
See above. The difference is Biden had an obvious halfwit as his opponent and didn't spend all his time fighitng - and losing - pointless battles against his own party.
didn’t spend all his time fighitng – and losing – pointless battles
againstwith his own party
That was Nick's point.
I'm expecting a minor-minor post Cummings bounce in Labour's favour and then a downward trajectory as we run into Summer.
I doubt they'll be even the smallest bounce. Plenty of those who supported Johnson, but might have been losing interest during the pandemic, will have their faith in him revived by hearing about him "battling the boffins" and being prepared to see the bodies pile up rather than being "scared" by the virus.
Prediction... 50% support for the Conservatives in polls this August. Sticking at over 40% through the winter. Whether that bounces Johnson into a early election, I don't know, but expect not. No real fear that a longer parliamentary term will lead to defeat, not least because Starmer bores the voters, so suspect Johnson will go for 5+5 years, and not bother with a third election.
Starmer (or any other Labour leader from those who could be selected) don't really need to bother until Johnson has gone, they simply won't beat him for the next 3 or 4 years.
No real fear that a longer parliamentary term will lead to defeat
I reckon he'll go for it next year before the covid enquiry gets going. Another term in the bank before he's exposed and before labour can sort their shit out and get rid of Starmer and the parasites.
That was Nick’s point.
I agree. Starmer would be well advised to stop picking fights with anyone to the left of Mandelson.
Ooh! Can we call Armrest 'Plonker Rodney', now? 😀
You can, if it amuses you and your classmates.
Starmer would be well advised to stop picking fights with anyone to the left of Mandelson.
Reminder that in the last general election 40% of Unite members voted Tory. Which would suggest that they don't view Starmer as particularly right wing.
Ooh! Can we call Armrest ‘Plonker Rodney’, now?
It is about as hilarious as Armrest. I will just call him Starmer as I am not 12 years old.
I call him The Starminator
Reminder that in the last general election 40% of Unite members voted Tory.
No idea what this has to do with labour. Unite is a union, and lots of people join for the legal representation should they need it rather than the political side. When I worked for a local authority the resident union was GMB and as far as I could tell most of the membes were died in the wool cheshire tory types. Starmer isn't picking fights with unions, but with his own membership and shadow cabinet colleagues.
hasn’t Jo Biden just shown that its best not to ......
You seem to be offering Jo Biden as sort of shinning example of how to win elections binners.
Yes he won the US presidential election last year, but it was by a margin of just 4%, hardly an example of a stunning victory.
And perhaps you should remember that this was against what must surely be the worse president in US history.
A man who had stood before the international media and talked about curing people of covid-19 by shining a bright light into them, such is the level of his cretinous stupidity.
A man who hadn't even managed to get the majority of votes in the presidential election 4 years previously, in fact he got 3 million votes less than his opponent.
And you are impressed by that? FFS
You are obviously very easily impressed binners. No wonder you have a level of confidence in Starmer which appears to be completely out of sync with everyone else.
You seem to be offering Jo Biden as sort of shinning example of how to win elections binners.
Yes he won the US presidential election last year, but it was by a margin of just 4%, hardly an example of a stunning victory.
And perhaps you should remember that this was against what must surely be the worse president in US history.
You may see Trump as the worst president, 50% of americans don't agree and beating Trump was a success. The same challenge lies with Johnson as people in this country are just as ****ing stupid as people in the US.
The only way and only reason we've had a labour government is because the foreign billionaire press wanted them .
We need to make the media owned by British people.
And perhaps you should remember that this was against what must surely be the worse president in US history.
David Cameron was the worst PM in UK History
or so we thought
Then came Theresa May. Now she was DEFINITELY the worst PM in UK History
And then...
The only consistent thing is that Labour lost elections to them all, by a worse margin every time
Yes he won the US presidential election last year, but it was by a margin of just 4%
Close elections (in terms of the popular vote) are normal in presidential elections now. Last two digit margin was Reagan, I think. As for the rest of your post... no, we didn't sleep though the last 5 years, we have all witnessed the baffling correlation of monsterous ineptitude and very high levels of voter support that was/is the Trump phenomena.
by a worse margin every time
Come on now you know that's not true.
https://fortune.com/2021/01/18/trump-approval-rating-average-popularity/
"President Donald Trump’s approval rating has dropped to 34% in a Gallup poll released Monday, the low point of a presidency that already had the weakest average approval rating of any of his predecessors since the survey began in the 1940s."
The lowest average approval ratings since the 1940s. And Jo Biden wins by a stunning 4%. Hooray for Jo Biden! How did he work his magic???
You can, if it amuses you and your classmates.
Oh it does, It does. As much as, if not more, than calling Corbyn 'Magic Grandad' etc, and using terms like 'comrade', 'sixth formers' etc does with certain other members. Perhaps you should chide them for their childishness also?
'Rodney and the Plonkers'. I like that, for Armrest and his doting acolytes. 😀
One of Starmer's problems is that he has no acolytes. He has no personal fan base. In a way, I thought that would be a useful trait for someone hoping to bring different strands of the Labour movement together. Doesn't look that way at all now.
He has no personal fan base
What you talking about, binners is a huge fan! Surely he's not the only one??
I’d hardly call myself a fan. I voted for him as the least worst option of an uninspiring bunch.
I had hoped that a bit of gravitas might improve matters. Like Kelvin I hoped that not being a prominent member of any particular faction might be a huge advantage. Some hope.
I’ve been really disappointed with where the party is at the moment, but then when his starting point was the smouldering wreckage of the absolutely catastrophic Corbynite ‘project’, I don’t really know what he can do? By the time grandad shuffled off it was more a sixth form protest group than an actual political party
It’s clear that he’s been tasked with the Kinnock job of repairing the damage from the last time the lefties turned the party into an unelectable rabble. A job that could this time be beyond the abilities of anyone.
Between them the legacy of Jezza, Len, Seamus, Momentum and co might well be a permanent one party Tory state. Not that I’d expect any of those to acknowledge any of their responsibilities for that. They don't do contrition. Their own moral certainty won't allow it. It's everyone else's fault. Always.
'The Left' never cared about actually getting elected and the responsibilities that go with power, it doesn't care that it has finished the labour party as a realistic party of government in most peoples eyes. As long as it gets to wallow in its own highly vocal, lofty, self-righteous moral indigence, its happy enough.
I think they actually long for a Tory government so they can fuel their culture war. They seem as keen to continue it as their opposite numbers which is very unfortunate for the majority of us who are stuck in the middle and just feel completely alienated from both sets of extremists, and effectively politically homeless.
*Complains about being patronised
*Repeats the same infantile insults for the 7392nd time.
🤔
effectively politically homeless
Would that make you non-binnery?
I’ve been really disappointed with where the party is at the moment, but then when his starting point was the smouldering wreckage of the absolutely catastrophic Corbynite ‘project’, I don’t really know what he can do? By the time grandad shuffled off it was more a sixth form protest group than an actual political party
It’s clear that he’s been tasked with the Kinnock job of repairing the damage from the last time the lefties turned the party into an unelectable rabble. A job that could this time be beyond the abilities of anyone.
Between them the legacy of Jezza, Len, Seamus, Momentum and co might well be a permanent one party Tory state. Not that I’d expect any of those to acknowledge any of their responsibilities for that. They don’t do contrition. Their own moral certainty won’t allow it. It’s everyone else’s fault. Always.
‘The Left’ never cared about actually getting elected and the responsibilities that go with power, it doesn’t care that it has finished the labour party as a realistic party of government in most peoples eyes. As long as it gets to wallow in its own highly vocal, lofty, self-righteous moral indigence, its happy enough.
I think they actually long for a Tory government so they can fuel their culture war. They seem as keen to continue it as their opposite numbers which is very unfortunate for the majority of us who are stuck in the middle and just feel completely alienated from both sets of extremists, and effectively politically homeless.
Phew, it's all the fault of the previous party leader........ that's a relief!
And "Len, Seamus, Momentum and co" of course. In fact it's pretty much everyone's fault expect Starmer's.
It makes so much sense that Labour did very significantly worse in Hartlepool under Starmer, than it did in two elections under Corbyn, because of Corbyn.
And it's the same logic which explains how Jo Biden scraping to victory against the most unpopular US president in history can be used as a template for Starmer to win against a highly popular British prime minister.
I only come here for binners analytical political brilliance. The punters down the Rose and Crown don't know what they are missing. Fools!
Would that make you non-binnery?
Would that make you non-binnery?
Loving your work there, fella! 😀
And it’s the same logic which explains how Jo Biden scraping to victory against the most unpopular US president in history
Interesting that you don't understand how US elections work.
Phew, it’s all the fault of the previous party leader…….. that’s a relief!
Well the loss was and then Starmer came in just before the start of a pandemic against a very popular prime minister.
Starmer has not done what he needed to but I am not convinced anybody (from the people who could be selected) could have actually done any better other than some sort of super leader and I don't think Labour have any MPs to hand that would fit that description.
I understand enough to know that you can win a US presidential election without winning the popular vote.
Oh it does, It does. As much as, if not more, than calling Corbyn ‘Magic Grandad’ etc, and using terms like ‘comrade’, ‘sixth formers’ etc does with certain other members. Perhaps you should chide them for their childishness also?
By the time grandad shuffled off it was more a sixth form protest group than an actual political party
Bingo!
and I don’t think Labour have any MPs to hand that would fit that description
And there's the rub. Who'd be doing any better right now if they were leader? Or sightly less hypothetically, if Starmer is to be replaced in the near future, who's stepping up to take his place...?
And there’s the rub. Who’d be doing any better right now if they were leader?
Theres only one realistic contender and he was clever enough to see the writing on the (sixth form) wall and extricate himself for the whole sorry mess a few years ago, to go and do something far more useful and rewarding, and do it well (as his trend-bucking increased majority with a 67% vote share proved).
I expect he looks at the disastrous shambles of the years since he left and breathes a hearty sigh of relief that he was nowhere near Westminster.
Theres only one realistic contender and he was clever enough to see the writing on the (sixth form) wall
Bingo!
It'll be nice when the schools go back
It’ll be nice when the schools go back
Indeed. You can use your oh so hilarious insults in the playground, rather than here. I guess that if any of your classmates say anything you don't like, you can flounce and find a different playground.
Has anyone worked out which angry ex-forumite bridges is yet?
Or pretend to shout at some nasty men. 😀
clearly likes a joke
We all like a joke. Feel free to make some.
Oh ok then; the Labour Party! 😀
One week only folks...
if any of your classmates say anything you don’t like, you can flounce and find a different playground.
Proper lol!