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Looks like the socialist revolution has been put on hold for a bit longer, comrades
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1380230803192492041?s=20
... as the continuity Corbyn candidate filled the forms in incorrectly
socialist revolution
comrades
continuity Corbyn
Don't you get tired banging that same drum?
Looks like the socialist revolution has been put on hold for a bit longer, comrades
Meanwhile:
Sleaze has to be the big thing this week and next. How can people still want to vote for these shysters?
Starmer's centrism is making the lib dems more popular. That's quite an achievement given their leader is even more boring than Starmer.
I couldnt quite tell if NIP was some sort of performance art set up, but then I thought that about Farage once & look at the damage he did!
That's a bad poll for Labour
The Tories hadn't increased their lead but labours had fallen and split evenly between LD & Green
I still think Tories will get a bit higher as we fully open up in the summer -It seems no matter how sleazy they are, their core will not dessert them.
Starmer’s centrism is making the lib dems more popular.
I'm not sure Stamer's "centrism" is either here nor there. He's not cutting through, that's for sure... but are Hartlepool voters really saying they won't vote for the Labour candidate because Starmer isn't a "left wing" firebrand? Absolutely Starmer is trying, with arguabley little success, to position Labour "on the left, but not just for the left"... but is that really why the Conservatives are increasing their lead? Anyone really, genuinely think so? Nothing about vaccines, declining death rates and opening up pubs and shops?
Labour has to become a coalition of the centre and the left. That Starmer is unsuited to winning over the public on that ticket is an easy case to argue, he's uninspiring. But his task is doomed to fail anyway, when the public can so clearly see that coalition is not just "uneasy" but self destructive.
How can people still want to vote for these shysters?
Because they wear their self serving deceptive lying status on their sleeves? No one ever supported Johnson and his cabinet because they thought they were trustworthy and just in it to serve the public, did they?
Don’t you get tired banging that same drum?
Come on... you'd miss it if I didn't.
And when there's comedy gold gold like that...
Its like a metaphor
Interesting fact of the day for you... the bloke who set up the Northern Independence Party is actually from Brighton
Of course he is.
Looks like you need to help kill 130,000 people , demolish the economy, oversee a Brexit mess to be 14 points ahead these days.
Looks like you need to help kill 130,000 people , demolish the economy, oversee a Brexit mess to be 14 points ahead these days.
There's only one game in town at the moment... the vaccination programme. Everything else is irrelevant. People can go to Primark then have a pint. Job jobbed!
This is doing for Boris what the Falklands did for Fatcha. She'd have been toast in her first term without that. This is the same thing
It's genuinely painfully ironic that it's going to be the NHS and the public sector that deliver this after a year where his private sector mates have been delivering a masterclass in incompetence and corruption.
He's been handed a 'get out of jail free' card by the very people he views with utter contempt, and he couldn't give a toss that he's ruthlessly exploiting their sacrifice and sense of duty. He's utterly shameless
Come on… you’d miss it if I didn’t.
No; I don't think we would. I think we'd welcome something intelligent mind, rather than the continuously disparaging and divisive rhetoric you keep churning out. We get that you've backed the wrong horse, but there's no shame in admitting it. Sir Keith has let you down; he doesn't care, as his nest is well feathered. So perhaps try to think of something more constructive to say, that might help foster better cohesion amongst those of us who oppose tory rule, than continuing to imagine it's all someone else's fault. That's how Farage succeeded, by sowing the seeds of division. Try to think for yourself more.
Try to think for yourself more.
Still clinging on to the usual narrative that everyone who differs in views from your own is an unthinking drone, clearly incapable of independent thought and just slavishly buying whatever Rupert Murdoch spoon-feeds them?
Ok comrade.
And they say that lefties are generally condescending and patronising? Can't see it myself
he doesn’t care, as his nest is well feathered
Really? He seems to care just as much as so many other rich left wing politicians who chose to dedicate their lives to politics... whether their money came from inheritance, marriage, or a highly successful career before entering politics. Being financially stable doesn't always stop you caring about others.
I disagreed with Tony Benn on many issues, and Hilary Benn on many others... but to say that either "didn't care" as their "nests were well feathered" is very reductionist politics.
their core will not dessert them.
Very good.
Really? He seems to care
Well, then his acting skills work on you then, at least.
rich left wing politicians
Starmer really, really isn't left wing. And sadly, neither is the son of Tony Benn. These are people who are politically much more in line with John Major. And what happened to John Major? Oh, he lost a general election for being to insipid, grey and boring...
Still clinging on to the usual narrative that everyone who differs in views from your own is an unthinking drone, clearly incapable of independent thought and just slavishly buying whatever Rupert Murdoch spoon-feeds them?
If it looks like a duck and goes 'quack'...
These are people who are politically much more in line with John Major.
Really?
Anyway, even if you politically disagree with them, why do you think they “do not care”?
As for Major, who did he lose to? And he did win a general election anyway.
Happy to have Starmer (and Benn) described as grey, but they do care, and they are on the left of UK politics, even if not left enough for you (or me as it happens) politically.
As for Major, who did he lose to?
A shiny, neoliberal mate of Rupe...
Well it looks like unless we can all attain the higher spiritual plain of true enlightenment that you've clearly achieved, you're just going to have to live out your days surrounded by thicko's, Tory's and lackeys to the military industrial complex
Does it ever get lonely in that ivory tower?
Does it ever get lonely in that ivory tower?
No; my local pub isn't full of racists, fortunately. I don't have to sit in a corner, reading the Guardian on my own.
Why are you lot obsessed with my local pub and its racist occupants?
Its very odd
And to be honest with you, the idea of sitting in the corner of the pub on my own with a pint, reading the Guardian, sounds like absolute bliss. Thats my idea of heaven
There’s only one game in town at the moment… the vaccination programme. Everything else is irrelevant. People can go to Primark then have a pint. Job jobbed!
Nope. Starmer's popularity started to decline in Oct of last year.
I prefer this one
I mean its still not great...
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1383071036661436416
Nope. Starmer’s popularity started to decline in Oct of last year.
???
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1383070777902268420
he held up pretty well until vaccine rollout began in earnest
you can see that there defenitley a relationshio between how well the government performs and starmers approval ratings
as country opens up more, Id expect Johnsons to rise more and starmers to fall a bit more
until around the autumn when economic hangover from covid/brexit really kicks in
(although you can underestimate Johnsons ability to balls things up)
ultimately starmer is a passeneger until covid is more or less out the way
Interesting fact of the day for you… the bloke who set up the Northern Independence Party is actually from Brighton
Have you read their manifesto? I'd have though you'd be all for it since it says prettty much what you've been saying for a long time about the north needing proper political representation. And the fact the guy is from Brighton is irrelevant, unless you now think the birth place or origin of a person should define the rights, protections or benefits they receive from the state?
"We reject bigotry and all ideologies of hatred. The North was, is, and will remain international. Everyone who identifies as Northern is Northern, and so we welcome refugees who seek safety and security in the North."
I presume that means refugees from Brighton too. 🙂
https://www.freethenorth.co.uk/our-values
I’m sure Binners could get together with someone from Brighton, draw up a manifesto that appeals to him much more, and definitely come up with a better logo and campaign material … but why?
This would be an opportune moment to post a Monty Python “splitters” gif, followed by a Harry Enfield laughing Tory Boy one… FPTP suits the Conservatives so well right now, doesn’t it. Leave everyone else to fight it out amongst themselves.
Who kept posting the “Independent Yorkshire” jokes in the old Brexit thread?
I’m sure Binners could get together with someone from Brighton, draw up a manifesto
There aren't enough Monty Python memes in existence to form a manifesto.
and definitely come up with a better logo and campaign material
Seriously though, what bits of their manifesto do you disagree with?
Aqueducts and wine will feature prominently 🙂
what bits of their manifesto do you disagree with?
You could ask that of the Green Party manifesto. I live in England. It’s obvious that the current Conservatives absolutely know how to turn FPTP to their advantage. Time for voters to wise the **** up, or live under Tory rule for decades. Voting for the monster racing loony party in a Tory/Labour marginal really doesn’t feel like fun any more.
he held up pretty well until vaccine rollout began in earnest
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating
That big dip around the time Corbyn was suspended?
For most of his first year, Keir Starmer’s favourability ratings have been both positive and superior to those of his Conservative counterpart Boris Johnson. Things started to take a turn for the worse in late January, however, with Starmer’s reputation going into rapid decline.
That big dip around the time Corbyn was suspended?
Yep, that happened for sure. And most of that support will never come back under this leader. Slow hand clap for the last leader for his efforts to help unify the party from the back benches. A return to past form.
Time for voters to wise the **** up, or live under Tory rule for decades.
Based on the last 5 years I would says voters wising the **** up is going in the wrong direction so it is Tory rule for decades and unless you stop the over 50's voting nothing is going to be stopping that.
Not all over 50s are that stupid.......
binners
Come on… you’d miss it if I didn’t.
And when there’s comedy gold gold like that…
Well, it's mostly stopped me from reading or commenting on any political threads on here, which is probably good for my health. 🙂
Not all over 50s are that stupid…….
Clearly not, I am over 50 myself 🙂
Unfortunately the majority of over 50's vote tory and there is no getting away from that.
I assumed that most of the snearing semi-literate gammons were in their 40s and 50s.
Nice internal flight to Scotland Sir Starmer.
Well timed that, and considered.
I'm not sure this helps, but it's amusing
I saw that. It did amuse me.
Not sure what Jon Lansman's done recently!
Expel the socialist activists from the party and then blame them for being disloyal splitters destroying the membership. Get your defence in first blaming those outside the party and northern lumpen racists for a disastrous forthcoming election result. Design posters attacking the left and trades unionists rather than the right to appeal to the tories. Despite his polished shoes and hair, Sir always looks hunted, is not his own man and he can't keep the attention of two women on a promenade let alone drum up a crowd. Not going very well really.
The big worry is, as with tactical voting, if you vote for Sir he might believe you actually supported him.
I’m not sure this helps, but it’s amusing
Initially thought Binners must have put that together but then noticed a lack of Monty Python or Citizen Smith images which gave the game away that he had no involvement in it.
Expel the socialist activists from the party and then blame them for being disloyal splitters destroying the membership.
Name names. Your last example was a councillor who was expelled for backing the NIP (now independent) candidate, after failing to win the Labour candidacy for themselves. So that was “disloyal splitter” first, expelled second. Not the other way around.
WTAF?
tribal political parties behaving tribally...
I’m not sure this helps, but it’s amusing
It's also very effective at portraying the labour party as a bunch of sneering, arrogant elitists who think anyone who has any left wing views or working class interests is a 'gammon'. It's a funny way of winning back those red wall votes.
WTAF?
Because that is the parliamentary equivalent of signing an internet petition. The previous leadership was very fond of this kind of futile and pointless gesture politics and look where thats got them.
From the Guardian article: Parties call for inquiry into Boris Johnson’s ‘failure to be honest’
Given the size of the Conservative majority, there is no realistic chance of MPs approving such a motion, but a debate on this subject – if the Speaker were to allow one – would be highly embarrassing to the prime minister.
Great! So the 'point' of this complete waste of everybody's time is to try and cause some minor embarrassment to the PM. Its quite a quaint notion that anyone thinks shame or embarrassment are emotions that either Boris Johnson or any of those around him are actually burdened with
anyone who has any left wing views or working class interests is a 'gammon'
While it is childish "unhelpful" rubbish, it doesn't make that particular claim.
So the ‘point’ of this complete waste of everybody’s time is to try and cause some minor embarrassment to the PM.
The point is to highlight the continuing stream of lies and misleading claims made by the PM while at the dispatch box, and the failure of "normal" parliamentary procedures to get him to address/correct them.
The speaker pulls him up on it all the time. He just ignores him like he ignores everyone else and carries on regardless.
He’s completely shameless. Lies come as easily to him as breathing. He couldn’t care less about some pointless debate, nor it would seem do the voters.
An exercise in futility. Like trying to shame a pig into paying more attention to its personal hygiene
It’s also very effective at portraying the labour party as a bunch of sneering, arrogant elitists who think anyone who has any left wing views or working class interests is a ‘gammon’. It’s a funny way of winning back those red wall votes.
I think you're extrapolating a bit much from that, mate. I just took it that its saying Len McClusky is a cock. Which he is.
An exercise in futility. Like trying to shame a pig into paying more attention to its personal hygiene
It's not about tying to train the pig, it's about pinning the "dirty" tag on it in the eyes of more of the public. Okay, most people already he's prone to lying, but it's about getting more people to consider that as important by stressing how it is damaging to our parliamentary democracy, and the running of the UK.
The poor guy can't even get a pint in peace :p https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-56802020
I guess they didn't realise that guy was the landlord before heading in?
as he told Sir Keir: "Get out of my pub"
He's had a bust up with Peggy Mitchell?
We all love pubs. A winter without being able to retreat into one has been shit. I really feel for everyone involved in the profession. If that landlord had been complaining about lack of support, or late minute decisions, or lockdowns having to be in place for too long, then fair enough... but if he's just arguing that pubs should have been allowed to stay fully open, no matter what was going on with the pandemic, well, quite frankly, screw him.
I guess they didn’t realise that guy was the landlord before heading in?
Even if they did, there wasn't going to be any reasoning with him, was there...
"you have allowed our children to wear masks in schools"
Yeah, crackpot...
Are you sure it wasn't Jezza's brother?
They certainly don't let him in pubs
Its quite a quaint notion that anyone thinks shame or embarrassment are emotions that either Boris Johnson or any of those around him are actually burdened with
No its for the general public to highlight his lies and forces his MPs to stick their names alongside his lies. Whether it could work or not is debatable, especially since chances of it being given press time is minimal unless johnson upsets the press barons too much, but when you see the desperate attempts to blame the "civil service" for the current sleeze allegations it is clear the tories are somewhat concerned about it.
Its certainly more effective than the primary school level political thinking about a public inquiry showing his failings before the next election.
The labour party is a complete shambles of conflicted ideas.
And Labour supporters wonder why they are not winning.
I'm sure someone in KS's team had a good reason for arranging for him to visit a pub run by a lockdown sceptic fruitloop...
^ well, it's a nice pub tbf.
Are Labour PR even less forensic than their boss?
Are Labour PR even less forensic than their boss?
Don't be ridiculous. This was entirely due to the vaccine bounce.
The guy who runs/ran the Raven is/was active here on stw.
That makes Nigel Farage AND Sir Kier both kicked out of pubs in town. Just need Boris to pay a visit now.
It is a good pub.
The guy who runs/ran the Raven is/was active here on stw.
Really? It's true, some of the 'let old people die to save the economy' perspectives are given a floating on the covid thread every now and again.
Don’t be ridiculous. This was entirely due to the vaccine bounce.
🙂
The vaccine bounce where votes from Lab moved to the Libs and Greens!
We need to see Keir interacting with people more. That was all OK imo, he did nothing wrong. I don't feel embarrassed for him like with various TM, GB, BJ etc interactions.
The guy who runs/ran the Raven is/was active here on stw.
Really? It’s true, some of the ‘let old people die to save the economy’ perspectives are given a floating on the covid thread every now and again.
No. That was a chap called Tim. (He was timraven here.) I rode with him years ago a few times. Nice chap, not at all like that bell-end. I think he moved on from the Raven years ago. It was serving good beer before good beer was trendy. Can’t say I’ll be darkening its doors anytime soon.
Yup, I remember the guy… dragged my other half’s family in there on a visit many years ago based on his comments here. They loved it. That was a long time ago though.
Anyway, yesterday it was interesting reading the response to Starmer on social media when he made his case about the interaction. People are dying to stick the knife into him… and the mix of ‘anti-lockdown’ and ‘everyone else is a Tory’ sentiments is a real heady brew of hate. Who’d be a politician in our current times?
Can’t say I’ll be darkening its doors anytime soon.
Tim doesn’t hold the same opinions as the cockwomble and isn’t that happy that the Raven is now associated with this.
There’s another vid after the original where he’s saying this floating around, assuming it’s the same Tim.
That makes Nigel Farage AND Sir Kier both kicked out of pubs in town. Just need Boris to pay a visit now.
Fridge boy won’t be getting caught out like those amateurs,he’s busy getting photo opportunities in a white coat saving the country 🙂
and the mix of ‘anti-lockdown’ and ‘everyone else is a Tory’ sentiments is a real heady brew of hate.
It as a bit odd that the the people revelling in this nonsense were either the usual Momentum Cult member lefty lot and the Desmond Swayne, ultra-libertarian Tory right wingers.
If you've managed to unite those two diverse groups of complete fruitloops, you're probably on the right track
Carry on...
I dunno, success comes from energising the, er, edges, while still pulling in normals... the Conservatives know this. That's why they're setting Sunak up to appeal to the right leaning voters wary of Johnson's XXXX Business and Watermelon Smiles approach. You get a "leading Tory" for two very different types of voter. Labour are failing here, they're trying to make Starmer one leader for all... and what they need to do is make "Labour" for all, using the wider team... but somehow not allow that to feed back into the ever decreasing circles of "Lefty" and "Torylite" accusations and fighting that's helping keep Labour in eternal opposition*.
[ * cue the "Starmer isn't opposing" nonsense that the pub guy was running with ]
Tim doesn’t hold the same opinions as the cockwomble and isn’t that happy that the Raven is now associated with this.
Ah, I thought Tim had moved on. I’ve seen that video now. This is it:
https://twitter.com/stephensumner15/status/1384137833166692359?s=21
It as a bit odd that the the people revelling in this nonsense were either the usual Momentum Cult member lefty lot
Oh give over. Your imagined image of 'momentum cult lefty' is a complete fiction. You wail about lefties calling everyone a tory (with just a hint of he who doth protest too much), and then in the same breath/sentence say everyone to the left of Nick Clegg is a 'fruitloop'. FFS man go and join the liberal democrats and get it over with, you'll feel much better once you're officially 'out'.
If there was a LP 'vision' it would be easier to share and have shared leadership with different emphases. But a shared leadership is much more difficult to direct and control, so we're left with the harried Starmer stumbling to deliver a stellar performance in a pub.
All of this patronising carp about 'lefty' this and that made me try to think of a decent bit of analysis or theory from one of these rightwing Labour types. The only 'centrist' stuff I could come up with on pressure groups, elections and social capital is from the US or Europe. If your role is to defend the status quo then you don't really need a theory or strategy since you only need to be reactive.
Daz - Mate, you may want to recalibrate your irony filter 😀
lefties calling everyone a tory
Dazh, go and have a look at the replies to Starmer... it's mostly this. ^^^
FFS man go and join the liberal democrats and get it over with
Or this. ^^^
stumbling to deliver a stellar performance in a pub
Nah, some people just want to jump on any problem that Mr Boring comes across, because they don't want Labour to be for all, they want Labour to be for them. He handled it just fine, and he was right to firmly disagree with someone complaining about kids being allowed to wear masks in school during a pandemic.
Binners, do try your best to make clear statements that can be examined and evaluated. Just name name one book or article.