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Admirable. But it won’t stop the Russian bot farms trying.
I doubt they are involved here. Its the hard right rags and their friends who are busy trying to influence government policy. That Starmer has popped up on the heil promising to crack down on welfare "cheats" shows Rothermere and friends threats are being noticed.
Why would they stop? The UK electorate has shown itself to be unbelievably gullible on several occasions.
Are you not impressed with Labour's 174 seat majority?
Or do you see that as an example of gullibility?
Btw fenderextender your persistent "voters are thick" theory** might do down well on stw's political threads but let's hope that Labour politicians probe deeper and beyond simplistic explanations. Otherwise there really is the risk of a Tory-Reform coalition government in 2029.
** Obviously that theory only applies when they vote incorrectly, it instantly goes out the window when they vote correctly.
The big song and dance about fraudulent benefts claims doesn't sit right with me, I'm not saying it's an issue that should be ignored, but compared to the overall welfare budget, it's peanuts, and over that, it's such a small percentage of overall government spending I doubt it would even be visible on a pie chart...
...Surley Starmer has bigger fish to fry? Seems to me it's just Mail/Tory-esque populist voter pandering.
…Surley Starmer has bigger fish to fry? Seems to me it’s just Mail/Tory-esque populist voter pandering.
It is. And with a large majority and 5 years to go why would he focus on it and even worse work with the Daily Mail unless there is some underlying belief in what he is doing and he priortises it.
I’m not saying it’s an issue that should be ignored, but compared to the overall welfare budget, it’s peanuts,
I don't think fraud is the main thrust of this, I think they are saying the welfare bill is too high full stop. Look at the announcements yesterday about stopping benefits for young people who won't engage. There is an ever increasing number of people leaving the Labour market through ill health at all ages, the question is as a country are we siker than we were (possible post covid), have people accelerated their I'll health through lifestyle or has the threshold for not being able to work fallen so people that would have worked 20 years ago with the same condition don't believe they are capable of working now.
Bottom line is the welfare bill is rising and in reality it will be all 3 factors at play, 14 years of Tory government certainly impacted the health of the nation. I think Labour realise the bill can't keep going up exponentially, whether they can effectively tackle it I don't know but expect lots more clamping down on benefit recipients type statements in the coming months.
Benefits are the wrong area to look of you want to actually fix problems in society.
It's the same driver as the Tories.
The benefits 'bill' is not an issue from a finance perspective. Normal rules apply - does it create inflation? If so tax exists to curtail.
This is all about framing the Tory way of running an economy to appease the right - again.
It won't work - nothing Starmer does works in this context as you've got a bunch of farmers calling the government communist.
More to the point Starmer and Co are looking for people to attack when they're budget finally wrecks even more of the economy.
Just follow the Tory mindset.
Well, if only a million have signed it, that means the Starmer govt is more popular then, as that means fewer folks don't want this govt than at the time of the election
The big song and dance about fraudulent benefts claims doesn’t sit right with me
Labour Govts have always made a song and dance about benefit fraud, the same way they make a song and dance about strong policing. In working communities blighted with crime, it's important that folks fiddling the welfare system are exposed and caught, it's important that low level nuisance crimes are dealt with. These are the things that impact peoples lives - not farm/landowner inheritance tax changes, for instance.
After 14 years of tory rule, I doubt there is anyone on benefits who doesnt deserve to be on benefits, and have legitimately jumped through every tory ever changing set of hops in order to be eligible.
I suspect a lot of the actual figure being quoted, comes from universal credit to people who are already working but are on a smaller than they can live on wage, but also things like pensions and carers allowances.
persistent “voters are thick” theory
https://evidence.nihr.ac.uk/collection/health-information-are-you-getting-your-message-across/
In the UK, 7.1 million adults read at, or below, the level of an average 9 year old
Politicians know this, populists know it best of all. I'll just shrug at this point, TBH.
Admirable. But it won’t stop the Russian bot farms trying.
Why would they stop? The UK electorate has shown itself to be unbelievably gullible on several occasions. It doesn’t cost them anything.
For the bang per buck it’s got to be the cheapest warfare ever.
Once they have someone following one they absolutely just keep feeding them anti-immigration ,anti-starmer,anti-woke or conspiracy crap on a daily basis.
I’ve been watching the anti-immigration and tbh you just wonder what these people are on as they repost and share yet another ai picture of a flag and lion or jokes and pictures of we’re English and drink beer and eat bacon, just to keep reinforcing the narrative.
7.1 million out of 70 ish million still leaves a lot of people who can read and tbh readings old fashioned in todays tik-tok world.
We need to educate people on it and go after the bot farms harder, we just can’t go around calling everyone who falls for it stupid.
I don’t think fraud is the main thrust of this, I think they are saying the welfare bill is too high full stop.
Well for arguments sake let's say that Keir Starmer convinces Mail on Sunday readers that the "welfare bill" is too high and needs to be treated as an urgent priority, who are they going to vote for to deal with it? Labour or Tory? Or perhaps Reform UK?
I know it is fashionable on stw to dismiss voters as stupid but who the hell thinks that Labour are tougher on benefit claimants than the Tories? Are we really suggesting that the film "I, Daniel Blake" got it arse about face and the benefits regime is typically more generous under the Tories?
Rishi Sunak did an excellent job of convincing many voters that 'small boat arrivals' was a huge problem by making it a central issue in the general election. As a consequence he gave Reform UK a massive boost which resulted in the Tory vote splitting and Labour getting a historic landslide victory, which they would never have otherwise got.
Rather than focusing so much on the alleged stupidity of voters perhaps a little more attention should be given to the sometimes quite obvious stupidity of politicians.
the mainly right wing press has focused on the bad policies rather than the good ones
And this thread continues to follows that pattern.
What bad policies?
Keir Starmer convinces Mail on Sunday readers that the “welfare bill” is too high
I think you have that back to front.
I’ve not read the piece, but I suspect it’ll be more about convincing MoS readers that Labour aren’t taking their eye of the “welfare bill”, something that MoS readers are concerned about (overly to my mind… with “benefits” concerns always about working age people not retirees).
I actually agree with Rone (not all the MMT twaddle) but that tackling benefits (which are on an unsustainable trajectory) is not the right approach. If we want to bring down the welfare bill we need to realign the cost of living with real wages. We can't do that by bumping up wages (global economy) but we can do something over time about energy and housing costs.
dazh has a point, but not the whole point
And what have they had enough of BTW? Inheritance tax on farms?
IHT for farmers is one issue that needed action, but what needed more thought is a Government package of farming and food sector support. That hasn't been looked at since May under PM Sunak
Companies paying a bit more tax?
Again, more thought needed to avoid penalising their workforce
Well-off pensioners not getting a handout to pay for their energy bills?
What about the 60-ish% of poor pensioners who should claim Pension Credits and don't and who consequently won't get WFA either?
Or are they more interested in the NHS, minimum wage and other things labour have done?
Definite poor thought in these areas too
They could have done a lot more yes, but getting rid of Labour is not the answer to the problem you have identified.
They must do a lot more to support the people in need and be genuinely equitable (or whatever this Government aspires to be) before making poorly thought-through flagship announcements.They've had four years to think about this and only had to look north of the border to see Scotland promoting support for poor pensioners and bringing in WFA cuts in 12 months,
"Responsibility for the winter fuel payment was set to be transferred to the Scottish government in September and replaced with a Holyrood-managed equivalent - the Pension Age Winter Heating Payment (PAWHP). That has now been pushed back to winter 2025." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9wnyp42kwo
As much as I don't like talking about brexit and think we need to get on with it, it is highly amusing seeing a load of brexit-voting rightwing types throwing their dummies out of the pram because Labour are doing what they should be in taxing the more well off and supporting the poorest through stuff like raising the minimum wage. If I was Starmer I'd be going a lot further with sweeping wealth taxes on properties and land-holdings worth more than 5 million, hiking up VAT on luxury items like sportscars etc and putting something like 50% stamp duty on second homes. Every time I see a pissed off farmer on the streets whining about Starmer it tells me he's doing what he's supposed to be doing. F*** them!
If we want to bring down the welfare bill we need to realign the cost of living with real wages.
Yes that was kinda the point I was trying to make - if 'in work benefits' are a problem, the government should be looking to remove the need for people to rely on them by decreasing the cost of living or increasing wages etc...
...which I guess they are kind of trying to do in some ways, but as always it's not simple, there's a lot of moving parts - the NI hike for employers for example might aleviate the benefit bill a bit, but it might well backfire if wages and pay rises stagnate and employers take on fewer staff as a direct result...
I'm not saying I have the answer - I don't, just musing really.
Every time I see a pissed off farmer on the streets whining about Starmer it tells me he’s doing what he’s supposed to be doing. F*** them!
Indeed. Let’s have a look at the people most angry and most vocal about the direction the Labour government is taking
Nigel Farage
Jeremy Clarkson
James Dyson
Andrew Lloyd Webber
Isabella Oakshott
Lee Anderson
Tommy Robinson
Starmer is clearly doing something right if that motley collection of ghouls is your main opposition
In the UK, 7.1 million adults read at, or below, the level of an average 9 year old
I can think of one family member that applies to. In their case, a legacy of undiagnosed dyslexia.
A low reading age doesn't make somebody stupid.
The right wing mouth pieces have really taken on-board Bannon's famous quote "Flood the zone with shit" haven't they?
I can think of one family member that applies to. In their case, a legacy of undiagnosed dyslexia.
A low reading age doesn’t make somebody stupid.
It doesn't. But at the level of a population of 65 million it has to be indicative. As well you know. But don't like to acknowledge.
Again. I feel the need to shrug.
A low reading age doesn’t make somebody stupid.
Not it doesn't...but that's Almost a different subject... We don't have low literacy levels because of dyslexia! we have low literacy levels across the population, dyslexic or otherwise. See also: critical thinking skills.
just look at the USA... Poor education is great for bad governments... Keep people angry and uneducated, and fed wave after wave of bull crap! and you can manipulate them as you please.
It doesn’t. But at the level of a population of 65 million it has to be indicative. As well you know. But don’t like to acknowledge.
Indicative of what?
Indicative of what?
Poor education standards and lack of parental/societal ambition, I'd suggest.
Also worth pointing out that with the right support and techniques, many dyslexics read at a higher standard anyway.
"keep 'em young, dumb, and full of cum"
It's the american dream, baby!
Indicative of what?
Poor education standards and lack of parental/societal ambition, I’d suggest.
Also worth pointing out that with the right support and techniques, many dyslexics read at a higher standard anyway.
All of this.
All of this.
Oh right. Not stupid, then.
So the Labour government has just announced it is going to put loads more money and emphasis onto metal health services?
The bastards!
Will nobody think of the multimillionaire landowners?!
...emphasis onto metal health services?
Did they have to steel themselves for that?
The bastards!
Ironic that they're so easily lead
Oh right. Not stupid, then.
Call it what you like. Excuse it how you like.
Everyone knows what it is.
So the Labour government has just announced it is going to put loads more money and emphasis onto metal health services?
The bastards!
So did the Tories and they were still bastards.
By the way where is this announcement. I've not seen it. Are we talking about stuff from the budget?
We always welcome some good stuff but they've made a hash of just about everything so far, so it's going to take a big turn of events to even remotely make any sort of difference to material conditions to say - poor people.
The future is BlackRock.
So the Labour government has just announced it is going to put loads more money and emphasis onto metal health services?
I suppose 4 shit/stupid things for every 1 good one (in theory) is an improvement. Still struggling to imagine what would have been different if the LibDems had won but that is what you wanted I suppose so at least you are happy, well done you.
Current macro-economic check:
The governor of the BoE (who has a history degree) is stubbornly talking down interest rate cuts (political) and driving unemployment . Kendall at exactly the same time has a knife in the back of every ****less layabout to get back to work - you bastards.
A financial institution owned by the government dictating policy? In the opposite direction.
And, our equally well-qualified Chancellor is about to impose minimum wage uptick and NI uptick (April) in a desolate economic landscape against virtually no growth. (Neither I would be against if fiscal flows from the government were high. But the NI increase is just farcical.)
But don't worry because private equity has got our back.
These are very drunk Centrists (being kind) driving this bus. The staggering thing about Centrists is their inablity to see where they are going to make an absolute mess of things despite it all being in front of them in big magnetic letters.
Coming to power and screaming about mystical black holes and milking clothes donations was a seriously bad way to wipe the slate clean and improve people's lives. But the budget was a whole new level of dumb. (For the record sod the land-owners but you have to give people something to get excited about to off-set this agro.)
I suppose we could say all farmers aren’t millionaire tax avoiders but all millionaire tax avoiders are farmers then 🙂
I think that was one of Clarksons best early top gear reviews actually where he attempted to use a Ferrari for everyday use and was one of the things that got his career going as opposed to the usual this Maestro can take 2 suitcases in the back reviews.
The shift of top gear from boringly informative to entertainment.
Well that’s it, then.
Might as well let Farage have a go.
Labour have the power to change material conditions to avert that.
The fact they didn't thake that plunge and misreprestend the government finances for politcal gain (didn't work) is on their inability to understand what feeds populism.
It's just so so stupid.
Coming to power and screaming about mystical black holes and milking clothes donations was a seriously bad way to wipe the slate clean and improve people’s lives.
I think they’ve actually made their lives harder, the black hole and the nicking the poor pensioners winter allowance whilst the injustice of inheritance tax on the poor farmers.
Unless they pull a f… great white rabbit out of the hat before election time they’re likely to be history as they have given emotive ammunition to the other sides.
They now have to overachieve to counteract that.
I think they’ve actually made their lives harder, the black hole and the nicking the poor pensioners winter allowance whilst the injustice of inheritance tax on the poor farmers.
Absolutely. Polls have born this out with most foolish honeymoon in politics I've seen.
Total mis-steps and not needed. Don't need political games when in power as such - just change stuff for the better.
The right wing mouth pieces have really taken on-board Bannon’s famous quote “Flood the zone with shit” haven’t they?
Because it works 🙂
Brexit proved it, micro targeting and flooding misinformation thru social media or any media works.
You can’t fight it with the truth as people only want to hear their own truths.