Though personally I’m disconcerted by such big shifts – tory to libdem I can get, or lib to lab – but if you’re an MP you’ve some roots in a party and its way of thinking. And I’m about to be told it’s not a big shift, I don’t doubt. But it is.
Most people think this. And it's what Labour need to change. They need more than for people to abandon the Conservatives and look to vote elsewhere, or not to vote at all... they need to normalise switching your vote from Tory to Labour. I can think of no better tool to help voters to begin to think that way then to have a MP visibly make that shift themselves. I genuinely hope there are more crossing the floor in future.
I can think of no better tool to help voters think that way then to have a MP visibly make that shift themselves.
'Here are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.'
This is what we need more of in politics?
I wonder what Jeremy would have done? Though that’s a very hypothetical question.
Not that hypothetical. Corbyn would have told him that if he wanted to be a labour MP he should resign his seat and tory membership, join the labour party, and go through the same selection processes that other prospective candidates do. Why should Wakeford be given a free pass to be a labour MP ahead of all those who have served the party for years who have similar ambitions?
How this utter scumbag
Why is he a scumbag?
Call me old fashioned but maybe Labour could party could have decent ethical MPs and maybe just sell that to the public?
Good luck with that
https://order-order.com/people/keith-vaz/
Why is he a scumbag?
Sorry if it offends but anyone who stands as a tory MP, votes for the things he has, and then cynically jumps ship as soon as he thinks his job is under threat is by definition a scumbag. I can think of much worse names to call him TBH.
Sorry if it offends but anyone who stands as a tory MP, votes for the things he has, and then cynically jumps ship as soon as he thinks his job is under threat is by definition a scumbag. I can think of much worse names to call him TBH.
What specific things did he vote for that make him a scumbag (or worse)?
Or is this just generalised because you need to hate people
What specific things did he vote for that make him a scumbag (or worse)?
Take your pick..
Sorry if it offends but anyone who stands as a tory MP, votes for the things he has, and then cynically jumps ship as soon as he thinks his job is under threat is by definition a scumbag. I can think of much worse names to call him TBH.
Is it not a win for a liberal democracy and the system that someone agrees to work with other parties they once stood against, not just for the day, but pragmatically for the long term?
Why is politics meant to be some kind of binary, fixed for life opinion, bear pit of death or glory? Politics elsewhere, in the UK and Europe as examples, is much more about collaboration and negotiation - it is our Westminster that seems full of rats.
I have more understanding and respect for someone who decides not to align themselves with the current Governing party of disingenuous, self-serving and immoral members than I do with someone who changes their mind.
Is it not a win for a liberal democracy and the system
Nope. I would say it more makes a mockery of the the system and allows people to say they're all the same or it's all just a game to them.
Changing your mind is fine but he's spent the last few years slagging off everything about Labour and voting for the meanest reactionary crap the government has been doing.
Unless he's had some kind of road to Damascus moment and wants to show ultimate contrition he can get in the sea.
Take your pick..
Without seeing the specifics your source is just for virtue signalling. For example he votes with the whip to oppose a opposition amendment as the bill is going to be amended anyway taking into account the main thrust if the amendment.
I imagine a lot of opposition amendments (of whatever colour) are to help generate clickbait like this
Apart from anything else people voted him in as a Tory why should he get a free pass to represent a different party? Would we be happy if it was the other way round?
But hey he's drunk the yummy anti-Semitism flavoured Kool Aid
Wakeford said Starmer had “shown that integrity in the way he has led his party on issues that matter to me, not least the vital challenge of combatting antisemitism”
Looks like he's going to fit right in as a member of CFI (presumably there's a nice easy process to switch to LFI).
Mr Wakeford said he “never listened to the left wing tropes” about Israel as an apartheid state
Surely the obvious strategy is to accept them as they cross the floor and then deselect and replace with a genuine Labour candidate at the GE?
Put the defected Tory MPs up in safe Tory seats to see what they can achieve if they still intend to stand?
But hey he’s drunk the yummy anti-Semitism flavoured Kool Aid
Arguably a comment beneath you. He represents a constituency with a large Jewish community, as well as large Muslim communities. Getting his head around the issue will help understand the local tensions.
Or.... (Insert some remarks alleging he's been bought or something)
I think this guy called Labour a bunch of ****s!
Love it.
Starmer's party of ragtags and chancers.
I think this guy called Labour a bunch of ****!
The dangers of OTT use of social media, also not very professional in any walk of life
Would we be happy
I don’t think that’s ever going to happen.
Happiness is a bourgeois concept. A capitalist myth created to oppress the working classes
"Not that hypothetical. Corbyn would have told him that if he wanted to be a labour MP he should resign his seat and tory membership, join the labour party, and go through the same selection processes that other prospective candidates do."
Wouldn't he just......
He never missed an opportunity to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Insert some remarks alleging he’s been bought or something
By the Labour Party, or a Chinese spy?
Forensic does not mean "forensic science" Perfectly reasonable desciption of Starmer.
-
<li class="module--definitions__definition">Relating to, used in, or appropriate for courts of law or for public discussion or argumentation.
<li class="module--definitions__definition">Relating to the use of science or technology in the investigation and establishment of facts or evidence in a court of law.
<li class="module--definitions__definition">Belonging to courts of judicature or to public discussion and debate; used in legal proceedings, or in public discussions; argumentative; rhetorical.
I have worked as a forensic nurse - because i worked alongside the police triaging detainees. We have forensic wards in psychiatric hospitals
I’d rathered the lad resigned than swopped sides. It would be fairer to the locals and a by-election now would be fun.
Starmer has forensic skills; is not a forensic lawyer. Neither very relevant to his leadership of labour.
Where are his forensic skills? Can you give any examples of these forensic skills, which you claim he has, being put into practice?
He seems to think they were relevant enough to make a pledge about using them during his leadership bid.
I posted in the Boris thread about this. He won his seat with only 402 votes spare, a tiny majority. He is in a £80k or so job that he will lose at the next election if he stays Tory. They guy is protecting his income, nothing more complicated or noble than that.
I’d rathered the lad resigned than swopped sides. It would be fairer to the locals and a by-election now would be fun.
This is true, Johnson doesn't have a by-election campaign to fight. He's got to be relieved about that.
Plus they can probably bin one of the letters to the 1922, given he's no longer a tory MP.
Ernie - did you look at the definitions posted?
Belonging to courts of judicature or to public discussion and debate; used in legal proceedings, or in public discussions; argumentative; rhetorical.
I'm sorry TJ are you claiming that Starmer misused the term "forensic" when he pledged, quote, "Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament"?
If so that's something that you need to take up with him, not me.
I have no problem with him claiming forensic opposition to the Tories, I'm simply asking where it is.
Sitting back waiting for the Tories to shoot themselves in the foot and score own goals doesn't sound very forensic to me.
Binners is that Inspector Clouseau searching for the posts which you have stopped posting on this thread?
Or…. (Insert some remarks alleging he’s been bought or something)
Making unfounded insinuations of anti-semitism/conspiracy theory should be beneath you.
As I've stated before, I just don't find it appropriate for our MPs to be part of lobby groups for the promotion of the interests of foreign countries, especially not expansionist/militaristic ones guilty of numerous serious human rights violations. Generally these are the same MPs who are part of a campaign to vilify Jewish Labour activists as anti-semites and hound them out of the party.
I guess Starmer has another ally in that campaign now.
It's scary to see who is allowed to join the Labour Party these days
On 30 Jun 2020:
Christian Wakeford voted to remove rights for unaccompanied asylum-seeking children, spouses, vulnerable adults and dependant adults to join a family member who is legally present in the United Kingdom.Show vote
On 22 Jan 2020:
Christian Wakeford voted against requiring ministers to seek to negotiate with the EU to allow unaccompanied children seeking asylum to join their relatives by moving from the UK to the EU or vice-versa, and instead voted to require the Government to set out its policy on this subject.Show vote
On 8 Jan 2020:
Christian Wakeford voted to remove a requirement for ministers to seek to negotiate an agreement with the EU to enable unaccompanied child refugees to join their relatives.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25874/christian_wakeford/bury_south/divisions?policy=1087
He really has an appalling voting record :
Consistently voted against measures to prevent climate change
Consistently voted against measures to reduce tax avoidance
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25874/christian_wakeford/bury_south/votes
And welcomed with open arms into the Labour Party by Starmer?
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Way to go kier.
https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1483790215248556037?s=21
No Ernie - I am saying its a perfectly reasonable use of "forensic" Its a word often misunderstood and wrongly used.
So what's your problem?
Starmer claims to be both a lawyer and possess forensic skills, refering to him as a forensic lawyer is perfectly reasonable, in the same way that if he claimed to have horse riding skills refering to him as a horse riding lawyer would also be perfectly reasonable.
The only problem I can see is if he did not possess the skills he claims to have.
It is interesting to note that on the day that a Tory politician moves seamlessly from the right-wing of the Tory Party to the right-wing of the Labour Party, it is confirmed that a veteran Labour Party member and former parliamentary candidate, with more than 50 years of membership, is expelled anonymously by email without any hearing or right of appeal, because 8 years ago he criticised Israeli treatment of Palestinians
https://insidecroydon.com/2022/01/19/labour-centrists-expel-veteran-croydon-campaigner-white/
The Labour Party really has become quite a sinister organisation.
The Labour Party really has become quite a sinister organisation.
They are ...
That's why I said do not tighten the noose on yourselves.
Out of line then you're gone on whatever ...
They are influenced by mole of CCP perhaps? Yes?
All the time I have been interested in politics there always seems to be a significant part of the labour party at war with itself
This witch hunt is just daft tho - absorbing loads of energy to what end?
Wasn’t David White one of the people suspended for claiming that Hitler supported Zionism?
I have never known anything remotely like this. What is going on now is totally ruthless and unprecedented imo.
Wasn’t David White one of the people suspended for claiming that Hitler supported Zionism?
LOL White was expelled because he is on the left of the party, not because of what he might or might not have said 8 years ago. He was suspended in 2016 and then quickly reinstated when it was clear that there was no case to answer.
The difference now is that Starmer is the current leader and his right-hand man is David Evans. Croydon Labour Party is controlled by the right-wing which is responsible for bankrupting the council and guilty of disgraceful housing scandals which have made the national headlines, no one has been expelled for that.
Being on the left David White has consistently opposed the self-serving right-wingers in Croydon where David Evans is a central character.
Accusing a man who has spent his life fighting racism of being a racist because of pro-Palestinian comments 8 years ago and expelling him, whilst warmly embracing a Tory brexiteer who only a few weeks ago was voting against the rights of asylum seekers, as he struts around parliament wearing a Union Jack facemask, speaks volumes about today's Labour Party.
Are you describing the “Hitler supported Zionism” nonsense as “pro-Palestinian”?
Ernie - I remember the infighting in Manchester in the 80-s - pretty bad then with coups and counter coups and various factions fighting and lashing out at each other
It seems to be something on the "left" that they keep on forgetting who the enemy actually is and fight amongst themselves - and we also had the labour / tory non aggression pact in Scotland which gave May a majority ( with the DUP ) and the Bain principle and before that labour councils splitting on sectarian lines
Seems my entire life the left has been full of splits and factional infighting absorbing energy that could be more usefully spent actually achieving someothing
Are you describing the “Hitler supported Zionism” nonsense as “pro-Palestinian”?
If David White had made a racist comment 8 years ago he would have been expelled immediately then. I will remind you that the leader of the Labour Party at that time was Jewish.
So tell me Kelvin, what is your view concerning Starmer warmly welcoming a right-wing Tory brexiteer who votes against the rights of asylum seekers and likes to proudly display the union jack?
He sounds like the archetypal Tory MP which stw despises so much, especially when you throw in that he is opposed to measures to reduce climate change and tax evasion.
The Tories have division aswell. They are in power more so it doesn't matter as much.
