I don’t think it does. Everyone knows that in a non-communist system, when businesses do well there’s more money around. Trickle down is nonsense, yes, but the more money businesses make the more there is for a left-wing government to redistribute. I thought this was fairly obvious no?
This might seem obvious but is in no way correct.
Money is not 'generated' by business. Businesses are currency users not issuers. The UK government is a monopoly currency issuer. Governments with central banks like ours do not redistribute money (as in via Taxation) - They issue new money every time they spend. This money makes its way through from public to private purse.
Left-wing or Right-wing the government has the same power of spending.
This is why every time we go into austerity (I.e the UK government taxes back more than it spends) - then countries like the UK & USA have historically dropped in recession - because business is ultimately being starved of money because consumers have less to spend.
Money is not ‘generated’ by business. Businesses are currency users not issuers
is this always the case? If a business attracts foreign investment? Or if they sell their goods abroad? Or in the case of tourism tourists come here and spend their money earned abroad here?
Trickle down is nonsense, yes, but the more money businesses make the more there is for a left-wing government to redistribute.
Um....
At a time of economic anxiety business leaders deserved better than the prime minister’s shambolic speech - they got it instead from Sir Keir Starmer
They got it much more convincingly from Jeremy Corbyn a few years ago but the Times et al were too busy trying to make him out to be a dangerous communist terrorist.sympathiser.
Of course, unless Starmer had gone in there and told all the CBI members that they should be out of a job, capitalism has failed, prepare to be nationalised, you’re all going to jail… his distractors on the left are going to attack him.
What do you think you are achieving with this kind of stupid straw man? 🙄
I mean, capitalism has failed, if you think avoiding planetary disaster for humankind is important, but...
If a business attracts foreign investment surely that is creating money?
No - there is no creation of money from anyone apart from the BoE and its agents.
The UK generally imports more than it exports.
They got it much more convincingly from Jeremy Corbyn a few years ago but they were too busy trying to make him out to be a dangerous communist terrorist.
But he was pro leave and always was. Brexit is bad for business especially leaving the SM & CU so I am not sure how JC could have been credible with this?
Or if they sell their goods abroad? Or in the case of tourism tourists come here and spend their money earned abroad here?
With exports - this is not that good in the long run as you're swapping a real resources for money. Something the Government can issue when it needs to.
Tourists from the UK also take their money out of the country. Neither of which is part of money creation.
No – there is no creation of money from anyone apart from the BoE and its agents.
I edited my reply to remove the bit about creation of money for that reason. If a business attracts foreign investment that is bringing money into our country no? BoE had nothing to do with it?
If a business attracts foreign investment?
They have to deal in GBP ultimately.
There is only one source of GBP.
When a company attracts foreign investment - it will ultimately be on a balance sheet and owe the investor. It's a loan. Not generation of money.
Sort of like how commercial banks work.
Of course, unless Starmer had gone in there and told all the CBI members that they should be out of a job, capitalism has failed, prepare to be nationalised, you’re all going to jail… his distractors on the left are going to attack him.
I refer you to my earlier post. What the vast majority of us want is not the end of capitalism, but a fairer, more transparent and less cutthroat form of it..
I watched that when you posted it before. And agreed with you. Both of them talked about growing businesses, and how that can benefit the country as a whole. Starmer's focus on improving skills, wages and security for workers benefiting companies, and society as a whole, was utterly uncontroversial, but a stark contrast to the current government cutting the money spent on post GCSE education... hurting future workers, and businesses, and society as a whole.
"Trickle down is nonsense, yes, but the more money businesses make the more there is for a left-wing government to redistribute. I thought this was fairly obvious"
Trickle down is nonsense for more reasons than one, which is why despite once being said in all seriousness it is a rarely used term these days, other than a source of ridicule.
Not only is it obvious that making billionaires even wealthier doesn't automatically equate with more money for those who haven't got a pot to piss in, but it is an established fact that if you give a fiver to someone on very low income it will stimulate the economy significantly more than giving a fiver to a billionaire.
Those at the top of the ladder need consumers with money in their pockets. Someone without a pot to piss in is no good to anyone.
The way to stimulate the economy is to irradiate poverty, not making the very wealthiest even wealthier.
The way forward is trickle up, not trickle down.
I run a small business consultancy, all the folks in the business are very well paid typically twice the national average.
We charge substantial day rates 700 to 900 a day this allows us to pay the wages.
For me as a socialist/capitalist (stand back and braces himself) the problem with the current pre covid economy is that it was built on mimnimum wage services and priced accordingly- we need to pay people more and pay more for the associated services,
For me to pay someone £50k per annum i need about £70k (minimum) to cover that) or about 100 days consultancy and that does not cover training, insurance, non fee earning staff etc.
If i assume 30 days leave 15 days training, 12 days admin and other odds n sods thats 60 days from 240 days so 180 days available for paid work. Then i take out presales/proposals etc which is typically 48 days i am left with about 30 days to create net profit..
My rambling post shows how a day rate converts into a salary... in summary you need to make lots of money (in the real world) to pay good salaries.
Those at the top of the ladder need consumers with money in their pockets. Someone without a pot to piss in is no good to anyone.
The way to stimulate the economy is to irradiate poverty, not making the very wealthiest even wealthier.
The way forward is trickle up, not trickle down.
I absolutely agree that this should be the economic goal. Sadly, the current situation is that the big bad capitalists only need enough people with enough money in their pockets so that they can generate big profits and leave the genuinely poor up shit creek.
And there's nothing to stop this bit:
Secure, well paid, skilled work is not separate from good business. It is the driver of good business.
helping to work towards that with the right government strategy behind it.
My rambling post shows how a day rate converts into a salary… in summary you need to make lots of money (in the real world) to pay good salaries.
Have you ever estimated your own value to the business? Maybe you should be paying yourself less.
Save that line for job interviews copa.
Lol, 'ambulance chaser' law firms going after Labour for data breaches and judging by some of the FB posts they are in deep doodoo.
In fact, that’s exactly what Corbyn was offering, but you’ve already said you don’t think he’d have been any better than Johnson, so you seem to be contradicting yourself.
Apart from that is not what I said, at all. I said I don't think Corbyn would have been a better leader than Johnson, i.e. leading his party, getting people behind him, getting things achieved etc,. as he was proved to be useless.
Do I think that a Corbyn Labour party would be better than a Johnson tory party, absolutely.
See the difference?
Apart from that is not what I said, at all. I said I don’t think Corbyn would have been a better leader than Johnson
No you didn't, here's the quote..
I also wouldn’t be able to say whether Corbyn would have been a better PM than Johnson.
Do you still stand by this after the last few days?
Copa i pay myself the same as our senior consultants and deliver 150 days consultantcy into my business each year.
I sure as shit dont sit and take profits.
Copa i pay myself the same as our senior consultants and deliver 150 days consultantcy into my business each year.
I sure as shit dont sit and take profits.
Why don't you pay yourself less as you're generating less income than your senior consultants?
How many Corbyns do we think could dance on the head of a pin?
Do you still stand by this after the last few days?
Yes, I still think that as it is still what I said, PM = leader. Corbyn would have been as useless as Johnson as PM. You did see how useless he was during his last couple of years didn't you?
Remember this is solely about him being in the PM position and how capable he would be in that role and not about labour vs tory which you got confused with earlier.
Why don’t you pay yourself less as you’re generating less income than your senior consultants?
Because his other work running the business enables the other consultants to generate income maybe?
This, is both wrong, and a stupid thing for him to say:
“When business profits, we all do”
Most business in the UK are small and independent, and mostly owner operated. So rather than Amazon or JCB, think hairdressers, pub landladies, the garage that does your MOT, the builder or the plumber you use.
The latest opinion poll out today gives the Tories a 3 point lead over Labour.
Voting intentions:
Con 39% (no change vs October 2021)
Lab 36% (+2)
L Dem 10% (+2)
Green 5% (-3)
SNP 4% (-1)
Reform UK (formerly Brexit Party) 2% (no change)
UKIP 2% (+1)
Plaid Cymru 1% (no change)
Other 1% (no change)
The latest opinion poll out today gives the Tories a 3 point lead over Labour.
Not surprised, they are doing a great job at the moment aren't they. Green has also gone down by a big amount, guess the COP26 thing already worn off.
Those voters eh...
The latest opinion poll out today gives the Tories a 3 point lead over Labour.
With little more than a third of the vote(...ing intention).
I think Labour could do worse than embracing PR...
I think Labour could do worse than embracing PR…
It was tried at the last conference but the unions blocked it.
"79.51% of Constituency Labour Party delegates backed the motion, while 95.03% of affiliates voted against."
This is before Johnsons latest u-turn on masks, too
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1464694609662124036?t=n9Xq8XnZSVyfYgOQqRUXFg&s=19
Polls are essentially level at the moment too
That change is because Boris has had a shitshow over the last month and not because Starmer has done anything good. Confirms a few things;
- It is for the tories to lose
- The leader really does matter and has a big bearing on voting, despite what some on this forum think
I see Starmer's pointless reshuffle has generated a lot of excitement on here. 😀
I thought it was much needed, and is now a much stronger front bench... I didn't post here because I suspect it'll just turn into rants about the new shadow home secretary... for what it's worth, I think what-s-name never made an impact, and Cooper should do much better.
Lammy in a major post is the big win for me. Very happy about that.
Is there any point discussing it on here? I dip in and out of this thread and its always the same few going on and on about how awful Starmer supposedly is.
its always the same few going on and on about how awful Starmer supposedly is.
Can someone tell us some good stuff to counter that then? I'll wait...
I thought it was much needed, and is now a much stronger front bench…
If by stronger you mean more right-wing. Also sidelining Rayner in yet another total dick move. And promoting Lisa Nandy and Wes Streeting - yay!
I know I'll get called a racist but this reshuffle also involves the promotion of more self-defined Zionists and members of LFI to senior positions. BICOM will be thrilled their secret leadership bid funding didn't go to waste.
Good to see Yvette Cooper back on the front bench. I bet she can’t wait to get stuck into Priti Vacant. It should be highly entertaining as the gap in their between-the-ears activity really is quite vast.
That and the 6th formers will no doubt be getting their petticoats massively ruffled, so it’s a win/win 😃
Cooper is corrupt and badly tainted . Nandy is useless. I have generally supported Starmer but this is very poor. Bringing Cooper back especially is a huge mistake
Cooper is corrupt
Come on chap, corrupt is a big word that needs some backing up.
From what I saw of her on the select committee, she seemed very capable. Why would we not want someone as capable as her in the shadow cabinet? She seems very competent and that is what we need to see?
In what way is she corrupt?
IHN check her and her husbands record. Anything for a pound. Totally ripped the piss on expenses. I dont care how capable she seems . I dont want her in cabinet
Because TJ said so. What other evidence do you need?
Totally ripped the piss on expenses.
Could've claimed £44,000 mortgage expenses under the rules at the time, did in fact claim £24,000, was overpaid £1300, ordered to pay it back. I've no dog in this fight, but that doesn't exactly strike me as a criminal mastermind at work...
I just googled her expenses, she had been investigated and cleared of wrong doing.
Doesn't sound corrupt to me, could be that her actions were morally questionable but I didn't read enough to know.
IHN check her and her husbands record.
You know what, I won't. If you're going to bandy about the accusations, it seems only fair that you should back them up.
'Corrupt' is very specific, very important, word when it comes to politicians, and should not be used lightly.
You’ll have as much luck there as you will with TJ constantly accusing Andy Burnham of being a racist despite never, despite being asked repeatedly to do so, coming up with any evidence of him being so.
Anyway… I’ll tell you who definitely won’t be glad to see Yvette Coopers return to the front bench, apart from TJ…
Priti Patel
…and Boris Johnson
And that can only be a good thing
