With golden rain issue it seems more a result of privatisation, monies diverted into dividends and pay rises for CEOs rather than investing in purification infrastructure and hence relying on ferric sulphate to coagulate the matter.
Couldn’t find a definitive accusation against either of them. Seems to be a general insinuation of snouts-in-trough, and/or of being frequently seen at fancy events with free food and booze, thus besmirching the proletariat.
Interesting. Many Croydon Labour councillors undoubtedly see the council which they helped to bankrupt as a cash cow that helps pay their mortgages, but Fraser is a councillor which I would least associate with that.
https://www.mylondon.news/news/staggering-amount-croydon-councillors-were-19497661
I think however that it be fair to describe him as a very active party bureaucrat so I can well imagine that he might attend a lot of functions involving buffets and drinking.
Btw the scandals and failures of Croydon's right-wing Labour group are far too extensive to list but here's another taster from only last week :
https://insidecroydon.com/2021/10/21/council-flogs-off-hotel-for-less-than-29-8m-it-cost-to-buy/
They also announced last week that they would permanently close down a highly popular swimming pool in Purley which is used extensively by school children because they don't have the £3 million required for repairs.
In May 2022 Starmer's/David Evans's Labour Party will be asking voters in Croydon to vote for them. Apparently because the Tories are very bad.
Croydon is a marginal council.
Btw the scandals and failures of Croydon’s right-wing Labour group are far too extensive to list but here’s another taster from only last week :
Interesting example as the stuff I was reading about labour going bankrupt said the national party had commanded local constituency parties to provide lists of all property they owned. Looks they're planning a similar style sell off of property owned by constituency parties to fund their war against members. It's a bit like Trump telling the mexicans to pay for the wall. 😄
Well here’s a poisoned chalice job if ever I saw one 😀
https://twitter.com/willthong/status/1452532603853197318?s=21
Never heard of him. Liking his recent tweets & RTs though.
Croydon is a marginal council.
I was going to say something along the lines of when Councils are controlled by a party for a long time, eventually corruption like this rises to the surface (see Liverpool) But this is really marginal council, it's swapped from Conservative to Labour back and forth over the years. Factional in-fighting really is poisonous for residents
It was once a safe Tory council, I remember a time when Labour were down to just 4 council seats!
The fight to wrestle it from the Tories was a long one. Although changing demographics did help.
All of which makes Labour's betrayal of their loyal voters even harder to stomach.
Edit : My mistake, I've just checked and it was 5 seats that Labour were down to during the Thatcher era. I think I got confused because 4 of the seats were on the New Addington council estate, which at the time was Labour's "Red Wall" in Croydon.
With the pre budget announcements and leaks, this is looking like an electioneering budget, the Tories see an opportunity to extend their rule now rather than risk a downturn to their fortunes in a couple of years. probably planning a spring election IMO.
I think it is too late for labour to do anything now, Starmer has set the stall out and no one is buying what he is selling.
Interesting and depressing (but Starmer would make little/no difference) and maybe get it out of the way before any public enquiries into corruption, PPE, Serco etc. He rode out the last report, must be feeling cock-a-hoop whilst the LP is defeating and bankrupting itself.
I think it is too late for labour to do anything now, Starmer has set the stall out and no one is buying what he is selling
Can't disagree, but latest polls have Tories getting a minority government at best,
The budget is just announcements of already pledged money, I don't see it shifting much
A GE on today's polls wouldn't be the Labour car crash of 2019 but nor is it the Blair landslide
Starmers team hoping that Chaos Kongs time as PM will want people craving sensible Starmer?
Starmer has set the stall out and no one is buying what he is selling.
I missed that - what was he selling?
but latest polls have Tories getting a minority government at best
With the polls where they are now, there is no real chance of Johnson’s majority even being dented, never mind done away with. Once an election campaign is underway, Johnson and his team will have reduced support for Starmer and Labour back down to 2019 levels. Starmer needs to go.
EDIT: sorry for sharing something from this guy, but he explains the difference between “mid term” and “election run up” polling perfectly here:
https://twitter.com/modernuklabour/status/1451179710797344776?s=21
what was he selling?
cuts in business tax
£9.50 minimum wage. If Labour had said £12.50, £12, £11 (bloody anything) at the conference their response that £9.50 is not enough would have carried more weight.
he explains the difference between “mid term” and “election run up” polling perfectly here:
Really? I thought it was completely unnecessary protracted waffle. It took him 2 minutes to explain something which anyone with a vague interest in politics already knows - support for a ruling party generally dips midterm but then picks as the general election date approaches.
Obviously in 2017 the reverse happened but that wasn't typical.
support for a ruling party generally dips midterm but then picks as the general election date approaches
He explains the why, not just the what. Everyone knows about “mid term blues”, but he explains why they can often be washed away at the election. And he does so quite succinctly, and with an example, and a warning about Labour Party complacency. No waffle that I noticed.
I have always thought that it was pretty damn obvious why it happens. I'm surprised anyone needed Blair to explain it.
Who was he talking to?
I believe it’s from this event in 2020:
No, I haven’t watched it all, and would no doubt be annoyed by much of it. I just used that clip because, for me, it sums up the danger of looking at the current polls and ignoring how far Labour are from being the preferable choice of government for enough people at the next election. They are not even close. And I don’t think they will get there with Starmer. He needs to go.
Ah, February 2020 at Kings College then.
So why the **** was Blair telling them not to be complacent? Why did he think that they might be complacent?
At that point Labour hadn't led in one single opinion poll since the general election. In fact the first opinion poll that had Labour in the lead was in late September last year, and that was short-lived.
Prescient, no?
Oh I see, he was predicting complacency, despite no evidence, because he assumed Starmer's leadership would be a roaring success and voters would flock to Labour.
Personally I would prefer if Blair kept his advice for despots. They seem to value it and are prepared to reward him handsomely.
he was predicting complacency, despite no evidence
He was warning about the danger of it.
Looking at the current polls doesn’t tell you just how big a mountain Labour have to climb. And they don’t currently look as if they’re bothered about establishing more than a basecamp for future expeditions. If they want to seriously trouble the government at the next election, they need to move Starmer aside, and install someone else, before then.
At least a catastrophic defeat of Starmsky in an early election might hasten a bit of change but who else is there?
I’ve thrown three hats in the ring… Lewis, Lammy & Miliband. I don’t think it’ll be any of them though, sadly. If the vote was May next year, and she put herself forward, I think Rayner would walk it. Jarvis looks to be positioning himself to run if there’s a chance to do so this side of the election as well. I don’t think Nandy is in a position to do well with the members, but could get lots of MP supporters.
Oh, I like Dr Rosina Allin-Khan as well, and one of her negatives … caught breaking rules dividing campaigning and parliamentary work … would probably be send as a positive for her if she was on the government benches.
I think Rayner would walk it.
No chance. If this place is indicative of centrist liberal England then Rayner is a thick northern slag who is incapable of being pm. I mean just think, she might cause an international incident by shagging a foreign president or something because she can’t keep her legs shut.
Does that explain the Richard Madeley reference to being his 'best girl'? A bit like Liam Fox's 'firm friend/best man'?
No chance. If this place is indicative of centrist liberal England then Rayner is a thick northern slag who is incapable of being pm.
Or alternatively some of us just think she wouldn't actually be liked by most voters so wouldn't actually win an election for Labour. I don't think she is that good, but guess what, it is not because I think she is a thick northern slag.
If this place is indicative of centrist liberal England
The thing with this mythical "centrist liberal England" is that it is a created catch 22 situation. the swing voters that have won elections for the past 40 years, have won elections for the past 40 years because politics has targeted them at the expense of the majority, and especially the disenfranchised voters who outnumber them by some margin.
If Labour want to win they need to stop pretending centrists are the only game in town, and start making inroads into the millions of people who feel rejected by the current political bubble.
Starmer has to contest the next election. He can still win, mid term blues and normal polling patterns are out the window with covid & Brexit imo.
Starmer is doing shit but if you win a leadership election you should fight the GE.
Clive Lewis didn't get enough nominations last time, Allin-khan wouldn't get enough if it was now. I'm not sure that the others would tbh.
Anyone noticed that whatever small ruckus anyone in the Labour party makes (Angela Rayner "Scum, Air pods" etc) it becomes the talking point.
Yet when the Tories destroy, absolve and spend without any account it's easier to brush under carpet?
It's obvious - I know, but until we alter the narrative from petty stupid things to what really matters (given Labour always have to - against the odds, sort out the social mess from the Tories) - I can't see a way out.
There's no way before the Pandemic that we would have predicted what the Tories would have been allowed to get away with.
Social media appears to have hugely contributed to the success of the Tory party.
On every level.
some of us just think she wouldn’t actually be liked by most voters so wouldn’t actually win an election for Labour
The evidence that being personally liked by voters translates into support on election day is weak.
After the heady days of cleggmania (a recognised phenomena which made the dictionary) many assumed that there would be a huge surge of support for the LibDems. There wasn't, it had no discernible effect at all. However much liked by the electorate their leader was voters weren't anymore convinced that the LibDems had anything worthwhile to offer.
For a reverse example of that take Margaret Thatcher. She was widely seen as an unpleasant person yet many were prepared to vote for her, despite not liking her, because they were convinced that what she was offering was necessary. Very few people visualised Thatcher as the sort of person they would enjoy a drink down the pub with.
The British electorate, despite imo often being wrong, is far more sophisticated than many on here give them credit for.
The evidence that being personally liked by voters translates into support on election day is weak.
I guess like all things though, as much as that's true, Johnson breaks that mold, I think people like him (or at least like the public persona he portrays), unlike Thatcher they could imagine having a pint with him down the local and lots of folks that voted for him are under no illusion that he's a bit shit at the job, but still preferred that over Corbyn's offer.
I think this pic by Cold War Steve really sums it up:
FFS man just answer the damn question!
Will you raise the minimum wage to £10 and reinstate the UC cut? Yes!
Where will the money come from? From normal govt finances and budgeting!
What does taxing fairly mean? Taxing the rich more!
So a wealth tax? Yes!
And stop f***** saying 'this is what the govt are doing'. You're not their spokesman, you're the bloody opposition! FFS how hard is it to just be straight with people and say what you would do?
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1452902387694309380?s=20
Social media appears to have hugely contributed to the success of the Tory party
See the recent research about how twitter amplifies right wing stories much more than left wing stories. Essentially it's much easier to scare/wind people up/create conflict with stories that play on people's fear of foreigners, commies, people who don't look like you, young people, dole scroungers, trans people etc than it is to be constructive. We're screwed.
Still going round in circles I see.
No chance. If this place is indicative of centrist liberal England then Rayner is a thick northern slag who is incapable of being pm. I mean just think, she might cause an international incident by shagging a foreign president or something because she can’t keep her legs shut.
I'm sure there are some of those "centrists" who think that way, but let's not forget the so called working classes who you appear to support heading off to vote for a Racist, homophobic, misogynistic party called the Conservative party eh?
In reality, Anyone seen to be be sharing the ideology of the previous Labour leadership will cause voting issues.
The thing with this mythical “centrist liberal England” is that it is a created catch 22 situation. the swing voters that have won elections for the past 40 years, have won elections for the past 40 years because politics has targeted them at the expense of the majority, and especially the disenfranchised voters who outnumber them by some margin.If Labour want to win they need to stop pretending centrists are the only game in town, and start making inroads into the millions of people who feel rejected by the current political bubble.
Where to start with this one. Centrist liberal England isn't a myth, it is unfortunately the key to winning elections under first past the post. I though this was pretty obvious.
Anyone noticed that whatever small ruckus anyone in the Labour party makes (Angela Rayner “Scum, Air pods” etc) it becomes the talking point.Yet when the Tories destroy, absolve and spend without any account it’s easier to brush under carpet?
Blimey, another "I thought this was obvious" comment here on who the media in this country politically support.
She was widely seen as an unpleasant person yet many were prepared to vote for her, despite not liking her, because they were convinced that what she was offering was necessary.The British electorate, despite imo often being wrong, is far more sophisticated than many on here give them credit for.
They got duped by the media back then, just as they are getting duped now, You give the British electorate far too much credit.
Centrist liberal England isn’t a myth, it is unfortunately the key to winning elections under first past the post.
This explains the success of the current government how exactly?
it is unfortunately the key to winning elections under first past the post
No it isn't, it is where the political game is played by the Westminster bubble, not where it could be played if they wanted to appeal to a wider audience.
This was seen in the US elections recently, it wasn't swing voters who got rid of Trump, it was 10+ million who wouldn't normally vote. Now in that case they were motivated to get rid of Trump. But these people will come out to vote if they believe they have something to vote for.
Aiming policies at a few hundred thousand swing voters in swing seats is turning away millions of potential voters.
Instead, Labour should concentrate on left wing voters like myself, and ignore every UK election of the last 50 years.
Instead, Labour should concentrate on left wing voters like myself
Any self-respecting objective left wing voter wouldn't be touching the current labour party with a bargepole. See above, they can't even articulate a clear vision for raising low pay and preventing abject poverty which is their number one, principal reason for existing. They'll be saying improving the NHS isn't their job next.
Left wing policies are popular with the electorate.
El-bent Free Member
Still going round in circles I see.
Who are you talking about....... the Labour leadership?
Or are you confident that they marching to victory with unwavering determination?
Your intense dislike of anyone to the left of Tony Blair is well-established El-bent. But how about you now provide your critique of the current Labour leadership?
I don't know about anyone else but I personally would be fascinated on hearing your opinions of Keir Starmer and how he's doing as Labour Leader.
Don't be shy to talk about Starmer, this thread after all is dedicated to him.
And so few of Starmer's supporters appear to want to talk about him. They seem strangely more interested in talking about other people.
And so few of Starmer’s supporters appear to want to talk about him.
dazh voted for him… and is very happy to share his opinion of his time as leader… otherwise, who do you want to hear from?
Most people wisely stopped even opening this thread long ago. It just goes into every decreasing circular arguments that bore us all. Evil centrists. Unrealistic lefties. War on the left. They started it. Round and round…
ctk says he “has to” still be the leader going into the next election… not sure that makes them a “supporter” though. Actually, ctk… why does he “have to”?
And yes, policy by policy, left wing policies are popular, even in England, but when the voters are offered a full left wing platform for vote for, they invariably don’t in large enough numbers.
dazh voted for him… and is very happy to share his opinion of his time as leader… otherwise, who do you want to hear from?
I thought it was obvious?....... someone who actually supports Starmer.
Clearly dazh doesn't but I get every indication that El-bent does.
If you are not interested in people's opinions of Starmer why do you repeatedly click on a thread with the title : Sir! Keir! Starmer! ?
