Oh dear - your hard right ideology really does blind you
No the boundary commission are not properly independent but that gerrymandering is mainly votor ID law which is deliberately aimed at disfranchisement of minorities and labour supporters and a new law to impoverish labour by further restrictions on funding
Patel is the only home secretary I have ever heard actually proposing to attack small boats for electoral gain - others have been racist and hostile byut not at her level - deliberatly breaching international law and wanting to make it illegal to save siomeone from drowning to further her racist agenda
No idea what your point about IDS is - refers to nothing I said
The creation of the enemy withing - one word - remoaners. theats the latest enemy within. Classic neo facist tactics. Previously its been muslims and previous to that Irish. also note the attacks on the BBC
the big lie? You need to read up on it. the propaganda coming out of the giovernment fits this perfectly. Just keep ion making the big lie and people start to believe it. 350 million for the NHS? No red tape to get food to NI, no downsides to brexit etc etc
I have been a political geek all my life and this is the most racist divisive and unpleasant government there has been.
They are using classic neo facist techniques.
disenfranchismant, control of propaganda and creation of the enemy within
but to get a job these days you need photo ID to assist in proving your right to work in this country
Only in england. ( and I am not sure even then) You need to declare you are able to work in the UK and have an NI number of get one. No photo ID required
However to rent in england you have to provide proof of residency. Not in Scotland. More neo facist attacks on innocent people.
I'm with TJ. Attacks on the press, human rights lawyers, universities, foreigners, remoaners, jingoism, 'defence of statues', denial of the existence of racism, suggesting offshore immigrant 'processing centres', criminalising protest, bypassing parliament. Just because they're splashing the cash doesn't make them left wing, or even centrist.
Just because they’re splashing the cash doesn’t make them left wing
LOL! Who the hell has said that the Tory Party is left-wing?!?
Can you copy and paste please? Did I miss one of BnD's comments?
Clad TJ is back in this thread. Gets straight to the point rather than playing games.
Ta Kelvin - I am only popping in and out really to laugh at the absurdities
Edit - and to read Ernies takedowns!
and labour supporters
You know that a labour member commonly has to produce photo ID and proof of residence in the constituency to vote on CLP matters?
No photo ID required
What does that make France where police can do random ID checks on the streets??? They'll use water cannons and CS next, oops they already do, no wonder people are fleeing in small boats, even the French think that their ID laws discourage migrants/asylum seekers
Patel is the only home secretary I have ever heard actually proposing to attack small boats for electoral gain –
Possibly trying to deal with the issue of people smugglers launching migrants/asylum seekers in small boats across the channel in large numbers. An issue no other home secretary has faced. So why single out Patel. Why does she trigger you?
deliberatly breaching international law
Have any breaches happened?
and wanting to make it illegal to save siomeone from drowning to further her racist agenda
Citation needed or does she just trigger you? Why is she such a focus for you?
your hard right ideology really does blind you
That's a bit harsh on the Green Party, you do know I occasionally vote green.
the big lie? You need to read up on it.
Is this a version of "do your own research"?
You need to declare you are able to work in the UK and have an NI number of get one. No photo ID required
No, it's a requirement of employing some-one that you check that they have a right to work in the UK, a passport normally suffices, but for EU, EEA and other citizens a residency or indefinite rights to stay. Applies to the whole of the UK, not just England.
I have been a political geek all my life and this is the most racist divisive and unpleasant government there has been
Yet 5 million plus EU citizens have applied for residence, people risk their lives to leave the EU/France in small boats to come here, something doesn't tally
nickc - you do not need PHOTO id. thats B&Ds daftness inventing things to justify the neo facists
Ill just deal with one more
An issue no other home secretary has faced. So why single out Patel.
Utter nonsense - this has been going on for decades and she wanted ( I dunno if it got thru) a law that criminalised anyone who helped them - even if saving them from drowning - a clear breach of international law. also the "turnback" is also in breach of international law aqs is her wish to have offshore internment camps
Triggered? FFS man - can you only think in cliches?
people risk their lives to leave the EU/France in small boats to come here, something doesn’t tally
They are not fleeing France/EU, they are fleeing areas of the world ravaged by war, and political ideology. If you are saying this is a far better place to live than Syria or Afghanistan, especially if you are one of the “others” targeted by the extremists that hold power there, I doubt you’ll find people disagreeing with you.
An issue no other home secretary has faced.
Come on, you’re not that new to the UK, you know that’s not true.
B&D - you do not seem to understand the concept of " the big lie" hence i suggested you read up on it so you gain some understanding instead of making ridiculous assertions that are wrong in fact and make you look even more silly
nickc – you do not need PHOTO id
Yeah, you do, sorry. And you have to insist on seeing the original document, and if you keep a copy (which you should) you should write on it, that it's a likeness and you saw the original...It's crazy, but it's true.
Check it out. there is no NEED for photo ID. some employers may ask for it but as we have no id cards in this country they CANNOT make it legally binding to have photo ID as many folk do not have any.
My most recent job change - I had to prove my eligibility to work but did not use photo ID to do so. NI number, NMC number, utility bill
You’ll need one of the following:
your biometric residence permit number
your biometric residence card number
your passport or national identity card
Or furyther down
They need to show both:
an official letter or document from a government agency (for example HM Revenue and Customs, Department for Work and Pensions, or the Social Security Agency in Northern Ireland) or previous employer, showing their name and National Insurance number
a birth or adoption certificate
So no need for photo ID.
https://www.gov.uk/legal-right-work-uk
They are not fleeing France/EU, they are fleeing areas of the world ravaged by war, and political ideology. If you are saying this is a far better place to live than Syria or Afghanistan, especially if you are one of the “others” targeted by the extremists that hold power there, I doubt you’ll find people disagreeing with you.
I didn't say fleeing France/ EU, I said leaving France/ EU. France and the EU are safe havens for asylum seekers. They are choosing this country as a destination, how much choice the people smugglers give them is another question but they buy their ticket for the UK which invariably means via the EU.
but as we have no id cards in this country they CANNOT make it legally binding to have photo ID as many folk do not have any.
I guess as a UK citizen you could present a birth cert, but certainly anything outside the UK, you couldn't. The Passport is, in all but name, photo ID (and I don't doubt it's coming)
which invariably means via the EU.
No it does not. Next!
Hmmm
Check your link TJ
What’s on your BRP
Your BRP will include:your name, date and place of birth
your fingerprints and a photo of your face (this is your biometric information)
your immigration status and any conditions of your stay
whether you can access public funds, for example benefits and health services
And
Check if a document allows someone to work in the UK
5. Does the worker have a current Biometric Residence Permit or current passport endorsed to show they’re allowed to stay indefinitely in the UK?
The permit or passport endorsement needs to show that it’s been issued by the Home Office, it’s current, in the worker’s name and shows that the worker has one of the following:indefinite leave to enter or remain
no time limit to their stay in the UK
a certificate of entitlement to the Right of Abode
is exempt from immigration control.
The passport must also be current.
So fingerprints and photo on the BRP and passport required!
As a foreigner living in the UK and enjoying world-famous warm British hospitality, the Foreign Office has advised me that I can prove my status to a third party by going online.
Advice from the Home Office :
View or prove your immigration status
You’ll need:details of the identity document you used when you applied (your passport, national identity card, or biometric residence card or permit)
your date of birth
access to the mobile number or email address you used when you applied - you’ll be sent a code for logging in
Come on, you’re not that new to the UK, you know that’s not true.
Hmmm, in 2018 wiki (ok not the best source) says 297 total, home secretary was Javid, we now can get that in a day
Nope - check again. There is no requirement to show photo ID! simple matter of fact. 3 million people at least in this country have no photo ID and there is no legal requirement to have photo ID so there can be no requirement to show photo ID to prove you can work here.
Try answering NO to the above question. It really is that simple. Are you so blind you cannot accept you are wrong? If you have no photo ID you cannot use it to prove eligability to work. try reading my direct quote for one of many sets of circumstances
I guess as a UK citizen you could present a birth cert,
No guess about it. thats one of the ways you can prove your rights to work
the Foreign Office has advised me that I can prove my status to a third party by going online
What could possibly go wrong?
an official letter or document from a government agency (for example HM Revenue and Customs, Department for Work and Pensions, or the Social Security Agency in Northern Ireland) or previous employer, showing their name and National Insurance number
a birth or adoption certificate
Is all you need - no photo ID required. You are simply wrong B&D
How do I know - I was trained on hire and fire and legal requirements and also previous jobs I have held.
Try answering NO to the above question. It really
I did, the option of just providing a number wasn't there, a document needed to be checked, going through to the end of the sequence ended with a referral to the relevant agency. The BRP document has your photo on it
The Tories have moved on from their past...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1437447464378830853?s=19
the Foreign Office has advised me that I can prove my status to a third party by going online
What could possibly go wrong?
Well I suppose the internet could go down.
Why, what are you thinking? That I might get deported if there's some broadband issues?
Tbh I would have preferred some sort of hard copy. Maybe a certificate from the Queen that I could proudly show.
That would have been nice.
The Tories have moved on from their past…
Remind me, he's Scottish isn't he?
He's also now living with a bloke (allegedly)
Go figure
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1437446963759304710?s=19
Tbh I would have preferred some sort of hard copy. Maybe a certificate from the Queen that I could proudly show.
That would have been nice.
I'm sure your Honorary Knighthood is in the post...
The Tories have moved on from their past…
Michael Gove was Alan B'Stard!
Big and daft -its very clear that photo ID is one way of proving right to work in the UK but there are others one of which I showed you.
In a country with no mandatory ID then you cannot be made to show photo ID as the only avenue. Even non UK citizens can prove right to work without photo ID - check the windrush pages
Now go on - just admit you are wrong.
The Tories have moved on from their past…
Remind me, he’s Scottish isn’t he?
What on earth is the point of mentioning that? You really are odd
Michael Gove in a previous life was also a militant trade unionist.
I suspect that was before he decided to embark on a career in the Tory Party and embrace racism and homophobia as a prerequisite for advancement in the party. I believe being gay and also homophobic goes with the territory of being a successful posh Tory, so probably not a problem if he is both.
Mind you his allegedly live-in partner might be disappointed when he finds out that Gove thrives on short term relationships.
But of course Gove might have been a racist homophobe when he was also a militant trade unionist, stranger things have happened. After all there are Tories who have been hugely successful in the Labour Party.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/jun/10/labour.uk1
In other news; Len's got a book to flog. I suspect it'll concentrate more on his self-appointed role as a socialist revolutionary and less on the relative merits of the wine list at The Ivy
Anyway... not yet content with the the fact that every time he opens his mouth, the Tory polling goes up a few percentage points, he might actually do the opposite this time. If 'Red Len' is expressing his opposition to you, you're probably doing something right
Len McCluskey: ‘I trusted Keir Starmer – until I saw how he handled Jeremy Corbyn’s suspension’
I believe being gay and also homophobic goes with the territory of being a successful posh Tory
You must be really gullible if you believe this sort of shit. Can I interest you in some magic beans?
Anyway… not yet content with the the fact that every time he opens his mouth, the Tory polling goes up a few percentage points, he might actually do the opposite this time. If ‘Red Len’ is expressing his opposition to you, you’re probably doing something right
Do you think he's lying? Either he or Starmer is.
Do you think he’s lying? Either he or Starmer is.
These sorts of discussions rarely come down to some-one tells outright lies, mostly (IME) it's people either deliberately "mishearing, or misunderstanding" or inferring or interpreting something different. It's how politicians work, no-one says anything without making sure it can be read or understood any number of ways
Both McClusky and Starmer('s team) are probably telling the truth insofar as the words that were said were said. as to what each side meant...draw your own conclusions.
You must be really gullible if you believe this sort of shit. Can I interest you in some magic beans?
Yeah you're right Nick, no Tory would ever be that hypocritical.
As for the class question: To my mind there are the Aristos and those that support them, and then there’s the rest of us. That “the rest of us” can’t agree a course of action amongst ourselves has been to the benefit of Aristos since the early middle ages onwards.
A gross over-simplification of what is a deeply nuanced and complex field. And a pretty crap way of looking at things, if you actually want to understand class in a modern context.
Quibbling that Corbyn is from a less well off bit is well into Angels on pinhead stuff…It’s like saying OK, he’s got a Ferrari, but it’s in one of the stock colours…
Another one misunderstanding the point regarding the 'Islington Set' or 'class' as one poster put it. This has nothing to do with Corbyn. It was Blair, Mandelson, Al Cambell, Hodge etc, who were the 'Islington Set' as labelled by the media and commentators. Which is really quite amusing, to see the Blairites on here referring to the "Islington' set, without actually understanding what that term means. It refers to the very people whose behaviour created the whole resentment towards metropolitan liberal elites, amongst many 'working class' people in other regions. People like Armrest and his current cronies.
Class exists but it no longer a simple 3 layer problem it’s a series of more complex groupings with barriers to entry which help define them. Arguably you can occupy more than one and move in a limited way between them but there are a few which are essentially are only inherited.
Sure. Agree totally.
The lack of clarity makes “class war” meaningless to most. Example, grouse shooting, a self made humble roots businessman buys a grouse moor and joins the shooting and fishing fraternity. He may behave as upper class inherited landowner but he’s not one, he grew up on a council estate, he’ll always be new money.
If you start to use the Marxist definitions good luck with that language on the doorstep
But then you demonstrate clear ignorance of how many on the Left actually view class; Marx was just one figure who wrote on the subject. You could have mentioned Weber, Rousseau or Bourdieu, for example, if you just wanted to reference historical authors. Or the plethora of more modern writers; Guardian favourite Owen Jones has written on the subject, or you might find Mike Savage's work more relevant to today. The constant stereotyping of lefties as ideological dinosaurs, doesn't help furnish your own position very well at all. Just makes you look like an out of touch right whinger.
When was the left wing golden era?
Probably the period following WW2, when Socialist policies were the only effective option in helping rebuild Britain; formation of the NHS and Welfare State, social house building, nationalised industries etc. But perhaps a bit less 'left wing' as some would like to frame it, and just what the country needed at that time.
Quibbling that Corbyn is from a less well off bit is well into Engels on pinhead stuff…
Fixed it.
Anyway, you can be from any class background and left wing, or right wing, or like most people favour a nuanced mix of polices from all over the political spectrum... class does not define most people's politics. Any party intent on governing needs support from across the many complicated class structures we have in the UK.
Will England ever have more than one Green MP?
I fully expected the slide for the Conservatives to begin this month, and increase over the winter, as decisions about the pandemic and Brexit being to really bite. I expected them to be further ahead in August though. Not sure Starmer can get credit for the lower peak for Johnson this summer, or the inevitable fall on the way now... unless staying out of the way is a plan rather than a huge shortcoming (I think the later, to be clear).
Any party intent on governing needs support from across the many complicated class structures we have in the UK.
No shit, Sherlock...
So; how is Armrest going to achieve that? Expel a few more Jews, perhaps?
It’s getting there
It's getting where?
It’s getting where?
Rebuilding from 2019
In spite or because of Starmer is a fair point
I'd hope for a decent set of policies to come out of the conference.
