In the last 24 hours attacks on Nandy, nearly all focussing on how small her majority in Wigan is, have been all over my Twitter feed. It seems she’s the new target for people completely unable to keep their focus on beating the Tories for more than the length of a tea break.
Her focus, like one or two others, seems to be on beating socialists.
If a seat has a Labour candidate, she’s going to campaign for that candidate. I wish politics was less tribal, but I’m unsurprised.
Her focus, like one or two others, seems to be on beating socialists
Exactly.
His instinct is to go for the middle class sensible vote
I love the arrogance in this statement. Of course you are the sensible ones who carefully think through everything.
I love the arrogance in this statement. Of course you are the sensible ones who carefully think through everything.
Love it or not the majority of 'us' did not vote Leave. Go figure.
👍
Love it or not the majority of ‘us’ did not vote Leave. Go figure.
Which doesnt make you sensible but simply those who were benefiting nicely from the status quo and so happy for it to continue (as indeed was I).
Those in the red wall though had been ignored for years and were going for a change, any change, since sadly the last labour government had also chased those sensible middle class voters and ignored them.
Gambling on brexit improving things was a large gamble and I expect will fail for most but it has already paid off for some.
Gambling on brexit improving things was a large gamble and I expect will fail for most but it has already paid off for some.
What were the pay off's? (Genuine question as interested to see where those who were struggling before have gained from Brexit)
Gambling on brexit improving things was a large gamble and I expect will fail for most but it has already paid off for some.
The Brexit vote wasn't really a vote for something, it was a vote for "not this". There wasn't a pathway for leave so people could just paint whatever they wanted into their vision of the future. Or as you say just gamble that "not this" would be better
What were the pay off’s? (Genuine question as interested to see where those who were struggling before have gained from Brexit)
At the moment it's anyone in sectors formerly employing large numbers of EU workers. Seems that a lot are getting pay rises.
The Brexit vote wasn’t really a vote for something, it was a vote for “not this”.
Yes which is the issue I have with these sensible middle class not voting for leave. Well duhhh of course not since they were happy with "this". Whereas others who hadnt seen any gains and often saw things degrade were more liable to go for out especially since the different leave campaigns were able to claim different things to different groups.
and see whether you think Young Labour is really some kind of extreme leftist threat to the Labour Party.
Who has suggested that Young Labour is some kind of leftist threat to the Labour Party?
The only person I am aware of who has made that claim is a Murdoch journalist who is a known supporter of Tony Blair but isn't even in the Labour Party.
He claimed that Young Labour were similar to the German Nazis and wanted a second holocaust against the Jewish people. Young Labour are hoping to take legal action against him if they can get financial assistance.
I'm not sure that that extremist nonsense has ever been expressed on here, even by binners.
I not sure Starmsky’s main mission is to get elected and that would explain his apparent indifference to his poor ratings.
Well there is the theory that after a stint as Opposition Leader he could withdraw from politics and embark on a lucrative career built on established and important political connections. After all great personal rewards built on strong political connections isn't new.
However the most successful recent examples have been based on good election results, it provides at least an illusion of competence.
I'm not sure that losing an election to a bungling clown would look good in his CV.
I am convinced that he wants to win the next general election as much as he wanted to win the Leadership election. And his determination to win that election was so great that he was fully prepared to say whatever he felt needed to be said, and then shamelessly bin all his solemn pledges as soon as the election was over. You have to be pretty determined to carry out a scam like that.
I think his obvious inaction as Leader of the Opposition is simply down to his very limited capabilities.
He didn't become Leader of the Labour Party because of a long history as a highly effective Front Bench MP, or because at Conference "he could find the party's clitoris", as was famously said of Michael Heselstine.
He became Leader because he was insignificant, the complete opposite. People saw him as safe because he had been careful to do and say very little and not make enemies. So successful was he at being insignificant and appearing safe that even a large number of people who had twice voted Corbyn to be Leader voted for him.
I am sure that is Starmer's strategy for becoming PM - be insignificant, don't draw attention to yourself, and appear safe. Partly because it has worked for him in the past and partly it is the only thing he is good at.
Oh and of course come up with a whole lot of pledges just before the general election which he will then instantly bin should he win. I have no doubt that too is an important part of his strategy.
Which doesnt make you sensible but simply those who were benefiting nicely from the status quo and so happy for it to continue (as indeed was I).
Those in the red wall though had been ignored for years and were going for a change, any change, since sadly the last labour government had also chased those sensible middle class voters and ignored them.
Gambling on brexit improving things was a large gamble and I expect will fail for most but it has already paid off for some.
More concisely:
Blowing your own foot off might pay off if you are next over the top.
Well, **** me, I've been wrong all this time. What a sensible decision.
😅
Those in the red wall though had been ignored for years
Ignored on what topic? What topic emotive enough to respond to Vote Leave's campaign tactics?
Might it be along immigration/racial lines, perhaps?
Ignored on what topic?
By new Labour pretty much entirely. You can see the tories trying harder (or pretending to) with the crap about the northern powerhouse.
Nothing whatsoever to do with large Muslim populations in certain towns, then?
🙄
At the moment it’s anyone in sectors formerly employing large numbers of EU workers. Seems that a lot are getting pay rises
Apparently not. Byrons are reducing their waiting staff effective pay by diverting tips, as well as having them clean the bogs.
Apparently not. Byrons are reducing their waiting staff effective pay by diverting tips, as well as having them clean the bogs.
And staff will just vote with their feet
At the moment it’s anyone in sectors formerly employing large numbers of EU workers. Seems that a lot are getting pay rises.
Thanks, wasn't aware of that. So the migrant workers were keeping wages down then ultimately by oversupplying and accepting what they got paid.
1 point to the leave campaign...
And staff will just vote with their feet
Oh yeah of course, it's that easy.....if you don't like the terms of your employment or work conditions just walk out of the job and walk into the next job until you find one that you are happy with.
Byrons doesn't appear to be a very good example of anything other than how badly the covid pandemic has affected businesses of that type. They went into administration last year not because they couldn't get staff but because they couldn't get customers.
ultimately by oversupplying and accepting what they got paid
Which sector had an "oversupply" of staff?
In the short term a self imposed shortage of staff will mean some higher wages when poaching key staff. Longer term, when it all shakes down, don't expect the long term "fix" to look anything like staff having more rights, protection, real income or respect from employers.
Oh yeah of course, it’s that easy…..if you don’t like the terms of your employment or work conditions just walk out of the job and walk into the next job until you find one that you are happy with.
It's the waiting staff hit by tips being redistributed to the kitchen staff and manager. They are on zero or five hour contracts, the world and his dog seem to be short of experienced waiting staff......
And staff will just vote with their feet
Doesn't work if enough businesses go under, though. Particularly on a local level.
And don't forget that the inevitable higher retail prices will be eating into any specific pay rise.
And in the longer term they'll get screwed over as businesses have to restructure to offset increased costs for bugger all in terms of productivity gains.
It sure as hell won't be exec pay or dividends that will take the hit.
🤦♂️
You do wonder how the lumpen proles will interpret under the Tories a rise in non-European immigration and refugees, no £350m pw into the NHS, rising prices, evictions, PPE and SERCO ripoffs, rising taxes, empty shelves, possibly a spike in CV in schools etc etc. Some sort of mental acrobatics along the lines of 'at least we didn't get Corbyn/Labour' or whatever they've picked up from GBNews? It is sad to see people pissing on their own chips but I can't imagine Special K saying anything that would grab their attention.
or whatever they’ve picked up from GBNews?
There's probably more people lurking on this thread than watching GB News
There’s probably more people lurking on this thread than watching GB News
Probably more chance of Andrew Neil contributing as well.
You do wonder how the lumpen proles will interpret under the Tories a rise in non-European immigration and refugees
I suspect they will deal with it in the same way as they dealt with all the other post-war immigration from commonwealth countries, which has made the UK one of the most multicultural countries in the world, ie take it in their stride. It won't be "free movement".
Otherwise if not I think the BNP is still around for them to vote for.
The Guardian: Mark Drakeford – the anti-Boris Johnson who surprised us all.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/06/mark-drakeford-boris-johnson-covid-welsh-first-minister
.
I know it's a view not widely shared but here's an article which appears to back up my claim that the importance of the charisma of a party leader is greatly exaggerated.
Whatever his other qualities, Drakeford was not a charismatic leader in the mould of his immediate predecessors, Carwyn Jones and Rhodri Morgan.
Since then, however, Covid has changed everything. While Drakeford’s detail-oriented, carefully considered approach to policy may not excite, it turns out that, when the going got tough, this was exactly what most of the Welsh electorate wanted from their political leader.
Also worth noting :
Both Plaid Cymru and a generously resourced and initially very confident Welsh Conservative campaign were humbled – the latter in large part because of the way that leave-voting former Labour supporters were persuaded to return “home”.
Since then, however, Covid has changed everything. While Drakeford’s detail-oriented, carefully considered approach to policy may not excite, it turns out that, when the going got tough, this was exactly what most of the Welsh electorate wanted from their political leader.
You seem to be arguing that if Starmer gets into power and there's a handy crisis he's going to be good (detail focused, considered approach to policy etc), just rubbish in opposition, and a not to be trusted establishment stooge....
detail focused, considered approach to policy
I haven't noticed those qualities, he seems all over the place.
You seem to be arguing that if Starmer
Do I seem to be arguing that?
Am I'm suggesting that Starmer replicates the experiences of the Welsh Labour Leader?
Or am I in attempting to make a point about the importance, or lack of importance, of charisma in UK politics?
I'll let you decide.
You do wonder how the lumpen proles will interpret under the Tories a rise in non-European immigration and refugees, no £350m pw into the NHS, rising prices, evictions, PPE and SERCO ripoffs, rising taxes, empty shelves, possibly a spike in CV in schools etc etc. Some sort of mental acrobatics along the lines of ‘at least we didn’t get Corbyn/Labour’ or whatever they’ve picked up from GBNews? It is sad to see people pissing on their own chips but I can’t imagine Special K saying anything that would grab their attention.
Take big pile of shit.
Insert union jack.
Highlight a few places where Johnny Foreigner isn't coping well with parts of what is going on here.
Chuck in a bit of implicit racism/xenophobia.
"It may be a **** up, but it is our **** up".
Job jobbed.
^^^
Oh I forgot, three more possible measures.
Release a series of dead cat stories of your own, tunnels under the Irish Sea with the IoM as a vast underground roundabout, that kind of thing.
Pray that the Ingerland football team win a couple of games.
Scout around for an issue to push out some slightly derogatory/corrosive comments about - BLM, taking the knee etc.
It really is that simple if you've identified a target audience like the New Tory Party (ENP) have.
🏴🍆💦🏴
Or am I in attempting to make a point about the importance, or lack of importance, of charisma in UK politics?
Starmer has charisma?
I was getting quite enthusiastic about Mark Drakeford as I read through that article, then he said he was about to retire.
So now Starmer has the perfect opportunity to attack the tories as the party of tax the workers whilst letting the wealthy off.
Lets see him spring into action or will he be busy forensically analysing something or other setting his long term traps.
Lets see him spring into action or will he be busy forensically analysing something or other
That's Mark Drakeford not Starmer
I reckon at this point we may as well just disband the Labour Party - put the poor creature out of its misery - and just have Andy Burnham and Marcus Rashford taking it in turns to be HM official opposition on a rotating weekly basis
Seeing as that’s what appears to be happening anyway
I reckon at this point we may as well just disband the Labour Party
Yup, they consistently fail to deliver....anything.
I have said it before ,but I really think that Starmer/Labour don't want to govern the UK while it's in this state ,so they will wait until it hits rock bottom and people beg them to take over.
I reckon at this point we may as well just disband the Labour Party – put the poor creature out of its misery
Totally agree. In all my time following politics I don’t think I’ve ever felt as distant from the Labour Party as I do now. Even in the Blair days. It says a lot that labour front benchers say more about opposing previous leaders than they do the tories. The party machine seems more interested in a witch-hunt of members who might have attended a meeting with some obscure lefties 20 years ago than fighting the tories, and the leader is utterly silent on pretty much everything.
I’m actually hoping for a massive collapse at the next election, it’s the only way things will change.
Starmer has charisma?
Well what do you reckon BnD? Since you asked this fascinating question.
I’m actually hoping for a massive collapse at the next election, it’s the only way things will change.
You don’t count 2019 as a ‘massive collapse’?
The worst defeat since 1935, a huge Tory majority with Labour losing loads of seats that it’d held since the Dawn of time? Ticks all the ‘massive collapse’ boxes for me
The trouble now is that there only appears to be one Labour politician who seems remotely interested in actually doing any opposing of the government, and he’s not even an MP
and he’s not even an MP
Well that's incredibly handy for you binners. You can now bang on endless about what a fantastic politician Burnham, or "Andy" as you like to fondly call him, is, and how he's the man to save Labour, secure in the knowledge that he's not in a position to do anything and therefore can't screwup and consequently prove you completely wrong.
Unlike Keir Starmer who you would really prefer never to talk about, even on a thread dedicated to him.
Afternoon comrade.
I don’t know why you think I don’t talk about Starmer, I’ve stated repeatedly how disappointed I am in the vacuum presently around him regarding policy and his timidity in failing to attack the government. The silence today is both mystifying and infuriating
As for Andy, me singing his praises is hardly anything new. The party would be in a very very different place now if we’d have had him instead of Grandad 6 years (which seems like an eternity) ago, very likely actually in power
Lol binners' go and look at one of the leadership hustings. Burnham was out of his depth and bereft of ideas. In fairness he acted well during and after the leadership election (unlike the spoilt Cooper).
