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Losing councillors to the greens in Sunderland.
I might be reading it wrong, but Labour are still in majority control of Sunderland, and have stopped losing seats, the others put real effort in to this area as it was close to moving after huge losses in the last elections, so from all reports, the outcome was exactly what Labour had wanted, of course they could dream of more seats, but they have held it, and can move on.
I would also struggle to think that local elections in Sunderland are going to be swayed by Keir Starmer, locals aren't a GE, they are steered by what people think of their councillors, MP, etc, it's why even with the Tory MPs being embarrassing, losses aren't going to be huge.
To help generate “lefty lawyers a threat to government’s plans to keep out asylum seekers” headlines on Election Day.
Judging by the headlines in the Mail, Express etc they don’t need to do anything to generate those headlines. Some of the papers and big chunks of social media seem to live in a parallel universe if their reporting of ‘the news’ is to be believed.
So let me get this this straight. Labour’s take on these elections is that they’re making progress - a turning point no less - after the lows of Corbyn, but haven’t done better because Corbyn did so well in 2018!
That’s nice and clear, and exactly the sort of two faced bollocks which most normal people despise when they hear it drivelling out of the mouths of self interested politicians.
It’s obvious for all to see that outside London labour have done terribly. They should admit it rather taking us all for idiots.
It’s obvious for all to see that outside London labour have done terribly. They should admit it rather taking us all for idiots.
Thats a half truth though
the red wall seats have remained roughly at the 2018 levels for labour in areas that voted in Tory MPs (often on slim majorities) in 2019
that will worry tories
Starmers made a big improvement on the 2019 collapse under corbyn
https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1522488012885667842
Whats also interesting is that greens & lib dems doing well at locals USUALLY sees those voters swing back to labour at GE -same with ukip & tories.
*as ever very easy to read a lot into low turnout locals**
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/local-election-data/
the red wall seats have remained roughly at the 2018 level
What an astounding achievement! In 2018 Corbyn was reviled as an anti-Semite and the party was in open civil war with a ridiculously hostile press. Starmer in comparison has a friendly press, gushing support from his MPs, the most unpopular PM in living memory, and a cost of living crisis to help him. He should be doing MUCH better than 2018, not barely hanging on.
Whilst the LibDems undoubtedly take votes from the Tories all the evidence suggests that the Greens overwhelmingly take votes from Labour.
I reckon it's safe to say that many Tory voters probably stayed at home yesterday or registered a protest vote, eg LibDem.
What is far from sure is whether come the general election they will continue to stay at home or again show their disapproval by casting a protest vote.
Labour needs to have done far better to show that they are on the right road.
It takes two to tango though
Labour have missed an open goal its true and maybe a more charismatic leader could have galvanised support for an increased share of the vote.
Bottom line is that after 10 years of Tory misrule on a scale not seen since we had rotten boroughs, after 10 years of lies, corruption and distruction of public assets huge swathes of the population still voted Tory.
This is because huge swathes of the voting public are nasty narrow minded selfish little gammons who don't give a toss about anyone but themselves and people like themselves. Its so depressing.
In 2018 Corbyn was reviled as an anti-Semite and the party was in open civil war with a ridiculously hostile press. Starmer in comparison has a friendly press, gushing support from his MPs
Apparently talk like that isn't approved on this thread.
I see this thread is still the same handful of posters shouting at themselves.
In 2018 Corbyn was reviled as an anti-Semite and the party was in open civil war with a ridiculously hostile press. Starmer in comparison has a friendly press, gushing support from his MPs
Apparently talk like that isn’t approved on this thread.
tbf its nonsense
This is because huge swathes of the voting public are nasty narrow minded selfish little gammons who don’t give a toss about anyone but themselves and people like themselves.
Well it didn't take long for that predictable analysis of yesterday's vote. I did think that excuse might have at least waited until the full results. After all if final result shows that Labour didn't do that badly the explanation will be very different.
This is because huge swathes of the voting public are nasty narrow minded selfish little gammons who don’t give a toss about anyone but themselves and people like themselves
Democracy is shit isn't it. Sounds like a good idea in theory until you see who gets to vote.
Labour needs to have done far better to show that they are on the right road.
The fact they've changed the percentages and gained consistently since the 2019 GE collapse they're on the right road.
But, again, we are over 2 years from a GE, the memories of the 2018 locals, followed by being 6 points ahead in the polls 6 months before the 2019 GE should point to not getting too carried away with numbers, there's just too many variables to add, especially at locals, they are night and day compared to a GE.
I see this thread is still the same handful of posters shouting at themselves.
Occasionally someone different comes along and makes a useful contribution.
Well it didn’t take long for that predictable analysis of yesterday’s vote.
It is more an analysis of the country rather than any specific vote. The majority (in current voting system) of the country still think the tory party are the right people for the job as will be confirmed at next election.
Hilarious watching labour celebrate no progress in the red wall and further confirmation of them as a party of the London professional classes. Losing councillors to the greens in Sunderland. I think the message there is clear. They’re f****. Starmer only appeals to a tiny number of lefty liberals in London and is wildly unpopular everywhere else.
This is quite predictable on a macro level.
The emptyness of the centre ground is just fool's gold.
People want an opposition that looks like there's an alternative along with the seeds of an optimistic future.
People are bloody miserable and surrounded by bad news. Offer something truly positive!
Not pushing hard on a solution to the energy crisis is just letting the ball drop.
Let's start talking properly about where the economy is heading.
Recession, Recession, Recession.
Stop wasting all the time on the Partygate stuff. It's just not sticking. (That must be the 10th time I've made that point in the context of not focussing on the real issues.)
The fact they’ve changed the percentages and gained consistently since the 2019 GE collapse they’re on the right road.
You don't fancy comparing like for like? You know comparing the council seats fought yesterday with the same council seats fought 4 years ago?
Yesterday's election was predominantly in cities which are natural Labour territory, so obviously quite different to a general election.
However most pundits claim that the lack of significant increase in Labour support, outside London, suggests that Labour are not firmly on the road to winning the next general election. Which considering circumstances is quite remarkable.
Labour needs to have done far better to show that they are on the right road.
In terms of seats gained or councils they've gained control of, I think that would be hard to pull off. While the Tories obviously aren't doing well, the protests votes for both Lab and Libdem are splitting the "anything but the Tories" in some places. The vote share will be interesting, but it certainly doesn't signal a heaving majority for labour if this was a GE. but then I'm not sure that local elections are ever that great an indicator either. (low votes, local issues etc etc)
tbf its nonsense
Starmer is clearly operating in a much more friendly environment than Corbyn was in 2018. That's not nonsense, it's a simple fact. Everything is teed up for him to do much better than he currently is, and yet he make almost no progress. And still labour MPs blame Corbyn! The only logical conclusion to their contentment with these results is that they're not interested in winning. They're back in control of the party, and they're getting rid of the undesirables so they stay in control. Job done!
I see this thread is still the same handful of posters shouting at themselves.
This thread is nothing if not consistent.
Starmer is clearly operating in a much more friendly environment than Corbyn was in 2018. That’s not nonsense,
Corbyn was monstered for his associations with Hamas, IRA etc
Starmer is attacked for having dinner
make of that what you will
make of that what you will
Are you seriously suggesting that Starmer is being more aggresively attacked by the press than Corbyn was? If all Starmer has to worry about is eating a curry then it proves my point, and yet he still can't do much better than Corbyn did in 2018.
Starmer is clearly operating in a much more friendly environment than Corbyn was in 2018. That’s not nonsense, it’s a simple fact. Everything is teed up for him to do much better than he currently is, and yet he make almost no progress
The reason he is in a friendlier environment, which he clearly is, is because he is not threatening them. He is trying to be part of them which is his problem as nobody seems to want that. Blair took a similar path but did a much better job.
Even after all the shit the tories have been up to over the last few years I would still put a LOT of money on them winning the next election even with Johnson as PM.
The reason he is in a friendlier environment, which he clearly is, is because he is not threatening them.
Never a truer word spoken.
Do you mean the media environment is friendlier because Starmer is not a threat to their interests?
The 4th Viscount Rothermere (Daily Mail etc) stands to lose his inherited life long non dom tax protection if Labour get into government.
News Corp (Sun, Times etc) would lose out in the TV domain if Labour can neuter/stop/reverse the selling off of Channel4/All4.
I see this thread is still the same handful of posters shouting at themselves.
Dont knock it, think of it as a creche and its actually quite a good thread.
2019 corbyn was not as beloved as 2018 Corbyn
Starmer to be investigated by cops for eating that curry. Game over. If found guilty he’ll have to resign.
No local elections thread?
So good news then with the added benefit of making all the tories who haven't resigned look even worse.
The next leader will need to be someone who hasn't been fined for breaking covid gathering laws...
Ill put my rep on the line! & say 'no offence committed'
So good news then
It’s fantastic news! Labour can get rid of a terrible leader by the back door and if he resigns Boris will find it very difficult not to follow him. We could be shot of both of them quite soon.
It’s fantastic news! Labour can get rid of a terrible leader by the back door and if he resigns Boris will find it very difficult not to follow him. We could be shot of both of them quite soon.
a) You assume that a repalcement would be better, it could be another corbyn
b) Johnson has shown time & again that he has no shame whatsoever
It’s fantastic news! Labour can get rid of a terrible leader
You might be overlooking a small detail...... the non-terrible replacement?
I might have said this before but Starmer isn't the problem, he is merely the symptom.
Today's Labour Party is a party of professional politicians who are unconnected to their once core voters.
I’ll settle for starmer going. Given these election results I don’t think anyone could do any worse. FFS he’s pinned his entire strategy on him being beyond reproach and focused his attacks on Johnson on the very thing he may be guilty of himself. Saying ‘I’m not Boris’ doesn’t really work when it turns out you’re not much different at all. It’s either arrogance or rank incompetence. Probably both.
it could be another corbyn
The party has taken significant steps to guarantee that will never happen again.
I’ll settle for starmer going.
I think your setting yourself up for dissapointment there
because if (when, imho) hes found not to have broken the rules, he'll be in an even better position
Looks like Starmer's Durham situation is now being investigated (with new information apparently) having been delayed over the election period.
He could've have done with that being cleared up and out of the way.
Got to laugh the press and Tory MPs who have been saying "we need to move on" are now flipping the other way to "this needs investigation."
Will that be the press that are favourable to Starmer because he isn't a threat to their owner's interests?
Well we know that's how they operate the Corbyn years showed us this.
Smears are new for Starmer though.
Will that be the press that are favourable to Starmer because he isn’t a threat to their owner’s interests?
The press were favourable because he was boring and couldn't be touched. Now they're like a pack of hounds hunting their prey because it turns out that he might not be the saint he claims he is. Add in the added bonus of rank hypocrisy and the smell of resignation it's a perfect media witchunt.
It's amazing they didn't foresee this. You'd think before he slaughtered Johnson for lying and rule breaking someone might have asked the question as to whether he and the labour party were squeaky clean themselves. It shows a level of naivety and incompetence that beggars belief.
You’d think before he slaughtered Johnson for lying and rule breaking someone might have asked the question as to whether he and the labour party were squeaky clean
Not really though because his campaign evening meal broke no rules
He'll be fine regardless, Durham police said they didn't issue retrospective fines when they let Cummings off 😉
Not really though because his campaign evening meal broke no rules
That's exactly what Johnson is saying too about his impromptu birthday party. He can't have it both ways. Also don't forget that he made a massive thing of Johnson simply being investigated, so how is he any better? To the casual observer it looks like hypocrisy and political opportunism. You know when people say 'politicians are all the same'? This is exactly what they're talking about.
Starmer to be investigated by cops for eating that curry. Game over. If found guilty he’ll have to resign.
If he's found guilty I'm sure BJ will be leading the they must resign calls, without any sense of irony.
That’s exactly what Johnson is saying too about his impromptu birthday party.
No it isn't, Johnson said first there wasn't one, then he said he wasn't there, then he said he didn't know what the rules were, and then he said he was furious that he hadn't been told that it might've broken the rules, then he said he'd pay the fine as it was obvious he'd broken the rules.
In Starmer's case the cops have said "They did't break the rules"
Did you not read the post above yours?
In Starmer’s case the cops have said “They did’t break the rules”
Although they have now said there is more information and so they are investigating again.
Whether that is anything other than political pressure we will have to see. Whats been provided by the mail doesnt seem to add anything so unless they kept something back cant see it going far.
Did you not read the post above yours?
I think he's going for Starmers throat more than the tories or the daily mail!
As for the police investigation, new evidence points at either more allegations or pap photos, i doubt either will do more than end with a no further action response, as SKS's response was pretty solid, he was campaigning, doing news slots and online stuff, all of which can be verified if true.
In Starmer’s case the cops have said “They did’t break the rules”
As have been said on the BBC and Sky - new significant info for what it's worth.
Like DazH says the damage is now done and "all politicians are the same" will be the new line.
I mean we all knew Starmer wanted to ape the Toriee in lots of ways but I didn't expect he wanted a police investigation too.
I bet Dunt and co are having kittens.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1522569015415164928?t=dzjkvIQMmemXjxDL6Sh9aA&s=19
Thought so.
kimbers
Full MemberCorbyn was monstered for his associations with Hamas, IRA etc
Starmer is attacked for having dinner
Corbyn was monstered for wearing a hat. Or a coat. And one time, for walking perfectly normally. Your choice of examples is ridiculous.
I bet Dunt and co are having kittens.
urgh, creepy weird man...
Corbyn was monstered for wanting to help the friggin' disadvantaged and put the brakes on 40 years of regressive market forces - let's be clear.
urgh, creepy weird man…
You not heard that expression?
Is the new significant info that they had poppadoms?
Corbyn was monstered for his associations with Hamas, IRA etc
Starmer is attacked for having dinner
Fun fact. I've always thought the IRA association was ridiculous with Corbyn when there was an actual former member of the IRA also a member of the Tory Party and Tory councillor.
(Maria Gatland)
Bet most Tories don't know that.
he was campaigning, doing news slots and online stuff, all of which can be verified if true.
I have to admit that I haven't been following partygate and beergate very closely, like most people it's not very high on my priority lists of things to worry about, but didn't beergate involve drinking beer?
Is Starmer claiming that he needs to drink alcoholic beverages whilst he is working? It might seem like a perfectly acceptable explanation to some but for many voters it will be seen as hypocritical.
And in particular as Starmer has focused more on Johnson's workplace social interactions than he has on pressingly important issues such as the cost of living crises.
The prime minister needs to have followed the lockdown rules of no social interactions to the letter seems to have been Starmer's obsession of the last few weeks, how awkward if he didn't.
there was an actual former member of the IRA also a member of the Tory Party and Tory councillor.
There still is, she lives two roads from me and she is my local councillor, based on the fact that there is zero chance that she wasn't reelected yesterday.
Her name is Maria Gatland.
And she intensely dislikes mtbers btw. She has successfully managed to ban off road cycling in my local woods on some spurious claim that it causes soil erosion.
And she intensely dislikes mtbers btw. She has successfully managed to ban off road cycling in my local woods on some spurious claim that it causes soil erosion.
She's a bad package then.
Bet most Tories don’t know that.
They are flexible about that sort of thing. Hence why nowt was said about Claire Fox who was close enough to Johnson for him to put her into the Lords.
Or indeed the pages dedicated to Corbyn allegedly not bowing low enough at remembrance day vs the lack of pages when Johnson turned up looking like a sack of shit and couldnt follow basic protocol.
And in particular as Starmer has focused more on Johnson’s workplace social interactions than he has on pressingly important issues such as the cost of living crises.
No he hasn't. The number of fronts that opposition parties are fighting the government on is many. Labour (and the SNP, and others) have been bashing away at the man for whom no rules apply on everything, especially fuel prices and cuts to benefits. Both Starmer and Blackford (and others) have been raising and pushing all these cost of living crises issues again, and again, and again. The Prime Minister's "I set the rules, but don't follow them" approach to government can be attacked without ignoring all the other stuff going on. And the opposition parties have done so very well, and got the balance right without making it all about law breaking in government. They've gone in hard on the cost of living crises again, and again, and again. For months and months and months.
Or indeed the pages dedicated to Corbyn allegedly not bowing low enough at remembrance day vs the lack of pages when Johnson turned up looking like a sack of shit and couldnt follow basic protocol.
That one really grates me considering how bad Johnson is mostly turned out.
It's an asset for Johnson you see, that he gets away with it as part of his "rules don't apply to me" approach... he choses to be untidy. Corbyn just wears normal clothes that don't cost a fortune and can be reused for many events. And wears them in a perfectly respectable normal way. He's not a carefully self curated clown basking in the ridiculous of what he can get away with. Good old Boris.
As for the police investigation, new evidence points at either more allegations or pap photos, i doubt either will do more than end with a no further action response
I think the new evidence might have come from interviewing Starmer's personal police bodyguards. The Tory Durham MP apparently urged Durham Constabulary to interview them.
I guess that if their evidence contradicts what Starmer has claimed it will be hard for them to ignore it.
IMO it's ridiculous that Durham police should investigate a fairly minor alleged incident which occurred a year ago simply to satisfy political pressure. But then if the Met were forced to do the same then I guess that they feel the need, quite rightly, to be evenhanded and nonpartisan.
Is Starmer claiming that he needs to drink alcoholic beverages whilst he is working?
I don't think he said that did he? I think he said that he needed to have a meal. I'm not sure that the components of that meal are relevant.
I see Diane Abbott has weighed in with some helpful comments just in case anyone thought voting labour would get them a unified party fit for government.
ffs
I see Diane Abbott has weighed in with some helpful comments just in case anyone thought voting labour would get them a unified party fit for government.
I've defended Diane Abbott on here before, but this is just stupidity.
It’s not “stupid”, it’s factional, and deliberately destructive. Not sure how it helps the case for the next leader, whenever that happens, to be more clearly left wing (something I’d like). The obvious infighting isn’t going to result in that, quite the opposite.
What is this ridiculous thing she said?
Because she's just repeating what Starmer said about Johnson.
Starmer should absolutely resign if he's issued with a fix penalty.
So do you agree with Starmer or not?
I don't see the issue at all.
D.A now responsible for Starmer's actions?
I see Diane Abbott has weighed in with some helpful comments just in case anyone thought voting labour would get them a unified party fit for government.
ffs
You reap what you sow.
I see Diane Abbott has weighed in with some helpful comments
Shocking. Did she call him a ‘f***** racist anti-semite’?
Diane Abbott is not the full ticket nowadays.
That's not meant in a light-hearted way, either, she is actually showing some signs of genuine illness. It is her time to bow out gracefully.
she is actually showing some signs of genuine illness.
Jesus. She stated the obvious fact that he should resign if found to be guilty and your conclusion is that she’s ‘ill’? As well as being patronising that offensive comment has just a hint of mysogyny in it too. Go have a think.
It’s not “stupid”, it’s factional, and deliberately destructive
What utter rubbish.
Have you bothered to read what she said before going waaaahhhh corbynist must attack?
I know you are a factional extremist but seriously how can you get upset about someone saying.
"“I don’t think he will – I think this is a lot of hype built up by the Tory press. But if he were to get a fixed penalty notice, he would have to consider his position."
Or do you think it is sensible for the labour leader to say Johnson should resign it fined but then say nahhh dont apply to me?
Not sure how my post could be construed as misogynistic, I would say exactly the same of any male politician who has so obviously lost their sharpness and edge with time.
Mind you, when I say "I'm not sure how my post could be construed as misogynistic"...
dazh
Now it becomes clearer. For 'construed' read 'deliberately misconstrued to deflect'. Yawn.
Not sure how my post could be construed as misogynistic,
So did you bother to read what she wrote before going off on your rant?
If yes then its problematic if not then why didnt you?