Remember vaccine bounce excuse with Labour losses earlier in the year?
Lid Dems over Tory then?
After Batley & Spen Starmer's position will be untenable, if defeated.
If he’s to be replaced so soon, who with? I know I keep asking the same question, but I genuinely would love an interesting answer.
I know I keep asking the same question
You certainly do dontcha.
And it does indeed speak volumes that in a party of almost 200 MPs and half a million members there are no obvious inspirational candidates that stand out.
That imo is at least in part due to the legacy of New Labour when to be successful within the Labour Party you had to be an on-message clone who relied on phone text messages to know what to say and how to think.
That sort of climate doesn't create the conditions for great visionaries to step forward.
Debate was stifled and surppressed, uninspiring mediocre was the result.
I like Dr Rosena Allin-Khan, but she's not had a senior role yet. David Lammy talks a lot of sense.
But tbh I think the leadership would be a hospital pass at the moment so I'm not sure Starmer is going
Personally I have nothing against him other than the fact he is not an inspiring leader - he will be a fantastic Secretary of State in a big Department if Labour get elected but he isn't going to do it. I think he appealed to the radio 4/broadsheet types as he wasn't Boris or Corbyn. But I think to most of the electorate he's just another haircut and suit and no amount of surgical dissection of Boris is going to help unfortunately.
If he’s to be replaced so soon, who with? I know I keep asking the same question, but I genuinely would love an interesting answer.
Dominic Cummings? 😉
Don't know. Let's just see what happens.
Kerley I’ve no problem with questions, but yours just seem very negative and reactionary, and based on illogical asuumptions that nothing can change. Things can change, they have done in the past, and they will in the future. In fact they have to change, it’s inevitable, because the world is changing very fast, and not for the better. We can either do something about it, or watch as everything collapses. I know what I would prefer.
I am just questioning it, that is all. I actually support the idea and always have thought along the same lines but good to question it a bit isn't it?
Your view of change is overly positive (a good thing) but not based on reality, it is very slow and people generally don't like change. Go and talk to some people about UBI (I have) and see their reaction.
Also not sure that majority working 26 hours a week instead of 37 will make that much difference to peoples lives and reduce any lust for holidays and consumerism. It may actually increase as people have more free time.
Worth noting the Green party (who I vote for) are pushing UBI and doesn't seem to be much of a vote winner. Yes FPTP, unfair voting system blah, blah but if if was a major priority for people they would get more votes.
Who I'd like but don't think would happen: Clive Lewis / Zahara Sultana (young!)
Who I I think it may be: Rayner. Which would be a real shame.
I would back Lewis, I wouldn't back Rayner.
Well, the Batley and Spen by-election is coming up in a couple of weeks. If Labour don't hold it, I think Starmer will have to consider resigning. So labour better have some candidates ready.
I think Andy Burnham is the only person who'd have a remote chance of winning an election. Still not sure the Labour Party has any idea what it wants to be though.
Rayner comes across as fickle and dishonest, frankly.
Apologies for the link to a s*n hack but it would appear Starmer's leadership is collapsing. Advisors jumping ship and potential successors on manoevres. He's finished, and I'm pretty confident he'll be gone if/when Batley and Spen is lost.
https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1405864465975988227?s=20
And then there's this. I don't think anyone could survive a comparison to Ian Beale 😂
https://twitter.com/shirleymush/status/1405813732807172096?s=20
Rayner comes across as fickle and dishonest, frankly.
I'm less favourable of Rayner than I was 18 months ago as a result of her shameless denial of her support for Corbyn, but sans Burnham she's the only one who can jolt labour out of this rut. She's got the only traits needed right now, which are passion, energy and aggression. There won't be any meek apologist feeling sorry for themselves nonsense, she tell them to get out there and fight, and I think the voters will respond to that.
She’d work for 12 months, and then those very traits would be turned against her effectively by the Conservatives… it would be far too easy. Once she’s no longer the exciting new thing for the media, she’d be painted as angry, emotional, moaning, powerless and of talking down Britain. She has played it perfectly though (in terms of avoiding the last leadership battle and focusing on getting the deputy role) and I can’t see it being anyone else if a change of leadership does happen this year. Labour will be sunk at the next general election if they take that path though.
Agree that Burnham is their best hope and I don't even like him.
Agree that Burnham is their best hope and I don’t even like him.
Sort of agree.
Didn't he do badly at the last leadership challenge though?
(He came in with 19% , miles behind Corbyn, but second.)
Assume he would have to give up the Mayorship?
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1406004486313844745?s=19
It can’t be Burnham (if Starmer is to go this year). Labour’s rules for replacing a leader a very inflexible.
Didn’t he do badly at the last leadership challenge though?
He did but since then he has really been very successful/popular as Manchester mayor and comes across really well in person IMO. TJ will say he's a racist but that might go down well in some places 😛
The final confirmation of his total lack of authority. Just get it over with and go FFS.
Do you think that's it wrong to move her? I don't quite get your point. Should MPs not be listened to? Is everything going so well that there is no need to change anything?
I would back Lewis, I wouldn’t back Rayner.
Not sure I would either, but she did Starmer up like a kipper when he tried to sack her, so she seems to have the political nous he lacks.
As for Burnham, he was quite staggeringly useless when he stood for leader. Maybe he's matured since he's become mayor.
Do you think that’s it wrong to move her?
No, but he should've sacked her after the local elections and reshuffle fiasco. He did everything he could to hang on to her, and then ends up getting rid of her anyway under pressure from MPs. It's yet more evidence of his incompetence and political naivety. He has no authority in the PLP, is despised by the membership, and an object of ridicule in the eyes of the voters. What is he waiting for?
I don’t trust Burnham one bit. He can’t become leader this year anyway. Lewis would be my choice if we already had PR, he’d lead the kind of Labour Party that would best represent me… but would never get enough seats to form a majority government. Rayner is an absolutely shoe in, but I suspect she’s hoping not to have to step forward yet. A new leader put in position this year will not get to be PM. Zero chance.
No, but he should’ve sacked her after the local elections and reshuffle fiasco.
I agree with that. In addition, I also think she shouldn’t be getting her new role.
Oh, my favoured candidate is still Lammy. But, like many other candidates that can show genuine passion in debate, he'd get at best a year as opposition leader before being dismissed as "angry and powerless" and then ending up leading Labour into a massive general election loss, if in the post for too long. Fresh energy and passion a year at most out from an election... please. I don't think Labour are in a position, or have the flexibility when it comes to leadership contests, to make that happen though. I have no real answers. Sorry. I don't think any of you do either though.
my favoured candidate is still Lammy
Agree.
I have no real answers.
Me neither, unfortunately. I'm finding it increasingly depressing.
Has Dan Jarvis disappeared completely into regional politics now?
Obviously, wider electoral appeal is inversely proportional to Labour membership appeal, and I'm sure there's something terribly wrong with him that I'm not aware of.
I think Burnham might be a good leader once he's been in the oven a bit longer- being mayor's definitely helped turn him from the useless windsock he was before, undone some of that Blair years invisibility and given him that bit of anger and backbone. But I don't think he's there yet.
So basically the Keir Starmer thread is now no longer discussing Keir Starmer but is instead discussing all the people who could replace him?
Where is binners when you need him to use his famous enthusiasm and eloquence to shake up the gloomy naysayers?
Where is binners when you need him to use his famous enthusiasm and eloquence to shake up the gloomy naysayers?
Probably door knocking B&S with free club Starmer Ties and forensic cufflinks.
After Batley & Spen Starmer’s position will be untenable, if defeated.
Not really fair on Starmer, another disastrous candidate pushed in, locals clicking on to the pork barrel politics of the conservatives, "community factors" (Palestine and lesbian candidate) and the previous incumbent was not that popular with some
Has Dan Jarvis disappeared completely into regional politics now?
Obviously, wider electoral appeal is inversely proportional to Labour membership appeal, and I’m sure there’s something terribly wrong with him that I’m not aware of.
He may have prioritised his family, not sure if he has managed to have much of a local impact but has kept a low profile nationally as have much of the rest of the labour MPs
Burnham I think is happy where he is, he'll be cut to pieces as a flipflopper
Rayner, wants it but private life a bit complex at the moment
Lammy, could probably do it but too associated with single issue campaigning which he sometimes overreaches with
Nancy lacks presence but has emotional intelligence, so no for leader ATM
Lewis, outshone by Lammy, not that clever,
Sultana, LOL
Thornberry has the back story, but doesn't do the work on her portfolio and the other MPs don't like her, allegedly evicted a long-term tenant so as to up the rent
What I don't understand is the lack of front bench presence on the airwaves, they should be out there pulling apart the current farces but seem absent?
So basically the Keir Starmer thread is now no longer discussing Keir Starmer but is instead discussing all the people who could replace him?
We should start "Starmerwatch" and post every appearance on TV or radio....
Not really fair on Starmer, another disastrous candidate pushed in, locals clicking on to the pork barrel politics of the conservatives, “community factors” (Palestine and lesbian candidate) and the previous incumbent was not that popular with some
It's a string of failures and bad polling, lack of opposition etc etc which has led to this situation. It isn't just this.
Me saying it makes his position untenable doesn't make it so though. Labour leaders don't normally have a such short innings.
My personal hunch is he's not got his heart in it anyway. And that's being kind.
Lewis, outshone by Lammy, not that clever,
Lammy is a neolib through and through talks drivel about the economy.
Lewis is a decent talker and an ideas person. Has a interesting background, understands the economy, and people
He's a good setup.
Not saying others will think that.
It's a lack of policies/vision as much as personality. Starmer has come up with nought.
So basically the Keir Starmer thread is now no longer discussing Keir Starmer but is instead discussing all the people who could replace him?
Yep, Starmer needs to be discussing it too but of course he won't be. Most leaders don't realise that they are actually making the situation worse.
Be fair, he has made his policies clear on the nurses' pay claim, demonstrations, sackings and suspensions, the middle east, landlords and tenants, banks and mortgagees plus on top of all of this he has crystallized a vision of the future as being quite different from the past.
My personal hunch is he’s not got his heart in it anyway. And that’s being kind.
Been saying this for a while. I can't see any sign that he actually wants to be PM. Instead he looks content to be the leader who hands control of the party back to the coporate influences which controlled it pre-Corbyn. He'll probably get a few directorships out of it and make a mint just like Blair.
And if we needed any confirmation of the above…
https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1407783054115020805?s=21
Imagine that? Hiring someone to run your press operation with a proven track record of actually winning multiple elections?
Mental!
What the hell is he thinking?!
Good to see they have understood the politics of the present/future and aren't just seeking to fight the election of 25 years ago all over again.
Binners is back, and all it took was a bit of Blair 😂
You know he’s been employed as head of communications, right?
He’s not actually an MP. He’s not writing policy. He’s head of communications. You know... the actual practical stuff
If I was looking to get someone to fly a plane I’d look for a qualified, experienced pilot who was good at flying planes.
As opposed to someone who’d never actually flown a plane before, but happens to agree with me on everything and reckons he’ll probably be able to be ok at it.
Bloody lefties and your idealogical purity. You might be a useless ****-wit but you share my opinions on Palastine so the jobs yours. I’m sure it’ll all be fine
Yes it's been rare to see binners on this thread recently.
So now that you are here binners how's your man doing?
Is his plan of action now to fight the 1997 general election all over again?
What is your prediction for the Batley and Spen by-election?
And how about if Johnson calls a snap general election, confident that your man will be waving from the steps of Number 10?
I’m starting to hope there is a snap election. If there is, Labour have no chance of winning it. And the public know that. It could result in some interesting changes to voting patterns in a lot of constituencies, and Johnson’s majority being cut, and a wider range of seat distribution across the parties. It would be interesting to see if the Tories rally around a waning Johnson, or move on from him. The bonus would be that Labour could change leader soon after an election, rather than worry about the timing.
