Forum menu
I hope that's clearer
More needless anti left attacks. Keith needs to learn that the Gammons will never shag him. It's truly a strategy for great political success, kicking it in to your own natural base.
Oh, and the Atlee comparison - now and post war are very, very different times.
What is the point of the Labour party - just to be a less bad version of the Tories?
Thanks for the link Bill,
I read the article:
"Corbyn shocked many Labour backbenchers in the aftermath of the Salisbury poisonings in 2018 when he declined to attribute responsibility for the attacks to Moscow without “incontrovertible evidence”."
"Some Labour strategists believe Corbyn’s apparent ambivalence over Russia’s role in the poisonings was a key reason for the public scepticism about his leadership that contributed to Labour’s disastrous performance at the 2019 general election."
Stop the war were undoubtedly right with regards Iraq and Libiya, but the situation this time feels a little different, Starmer isn't advocating invading another country. Given that we've left the EU, NATO is in a more fragile state than ever and we have Liz Truss as Foreign Secretary, I think Starmer is just trying to present himself as a grown up.
Accusing him of being a warmonger and suggesting he is somehow opposing the French attempts at diplomacy is absurd and doing so only seeks to sow divisions between European and NATO ailies, which is exactly what Putin wants.
Given Corbyn's involvement with Stop the War, what possible incentive is there for Starmer to align himself with them in any way? And give Stop the Wars objectives, how does it help them having an RT stooge so prominently involved?
I can see why Starmer wants to distance himself from this
https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1492179633739083783?t=Rb4Jz2iHVXxPnhcDnWJKmQ&s=19
'Grown up? You're always arguing the elderly are reactionary and now you're using the term as a metaphor for 'sensible politics' (with a bit of killing of working class kids). Make your mind up. When politics is failing internally, find an external enemy, real or imagined. They're all at it. I'll wager ten bob there'll be no war but everyone will go home declaring a victory.
"you’re using the term (grown up) as a metaphor for ‘sensible politics (with a bit of killing of working class kids)"
I see what you did there...
Neither of us want war,
I think Corbyn is a moron,
You think Starmer is a red Tory,
Ergo, I want young working class people to die?
"What is the point of the Labour party – just to be a less bad version of the Tories?"
Only if they want to get elected.
When politics is failing internally, find an external enemy, real or imagined.
I don't think Starmer led the Stop the War Event where Corbyn and his fellow travelers are going NATO baddddd. He doesn't have much of a choice but to call it out if he wants to be PM. UK opinion is positive for NATO as most voters remember the cold war
They’re all at it. I’ll wager ten bob there’ll be no war but everyone will go home declaring a victory.
You understand the principles of deterrence?
Even the ancient Chinese understood defeating your enemy without fighting was preferable
“What is the point of the Labour party – just to be a less bad version of the Tories?”
Only if they want to get elected.
They aren't going to get elected. And even if they cobble together a coalition with plaid and the SNP they won't be able to govern effectively because of EVEL.
On a personal note, I'm now back to voting Green or spoiling the ballot
There was 0 need to attack stop the war. He could have said nothing. He his virtue signalling to the right, that's all. He's an empty vessel prosecuting vapid politics.
I don't comment in this thread much but I'll break the habit.
I couldn't give a toss about Labour "winning the argument", I really don't. Such niceties are for another era.
The Tories have to be ousted by any legal means. I'll vote for any left/ centrist party in my area of it deposes the Tory that currently "represents" me.
Get. Them. Out.
I mean, ****, I don't even care if they (Labour) indulge in a bit of flag waving if it gets the votes. Then steer the country back toward the direction it needs to go. Until the votes are won there is no hope of change.
larrydavid, I sympathise with you more than it might appear but a protest vote or a spoiled ballot serves only one party when all is said and done and you know which party that is.
As I said, sod moral/ ethical protests at the ballot box, we can no longer be that self indulgent.
Get. Them. Out.
(Rant over and genuinely not picking an argument with you Larry, I'm very much a pacifist but I'm also learning to be a realist.)
Good for you Larry.
Virtue signalling is definitely a bad thing.
Personally I'll vote whatever way to try to stop the tories.
I am centralist scum though... 😂
He could have said nothing.
i bet he wished Stop the War said nothing on Ukraine
Once you had Corbyn and Diane do their bits he was in a bind, ignore and be tainted or respond with both barrels
Stop the war were undoubtedly right with regards Iraq
Absolutely. They seemed right at the time to me (and I supported them) and have been proven doubly right in hindsight (in my opinion). But when Russia annexed Crimea, they basically said that was all the fault of the EU & NATO, and didn’t have a word of criticism against Russia. If more of Ukraine falls to advancing Russian troops, they’ll just shrug and say it’s all the fault of the West again. If the Baltic states fall later, they’ll say the same. They’re only against advancing forces if they are Western forces.
My point is that centerism doesn't work and doesn't lead to lasting real change.
New Labour. We had sure start, minimum wage etc which was good. But we also had Iraq, buy to let explosion and pfi. It also reached an accomodation with austerity. And in the medium term all the good stuff was swept away by that austerity.
The lib Dems 2010-15. The less said the better.
The SNP: for all the Indy stuff they are a third way party. A few good policies but 0 structural change.
We've tried it, it doesn't work. The direction of travel is the same, only the speed changes.
That said, I want significant political, social and economic change. Not everyone wants that and would prefer the status quo with the edges taken off, which is a valid position and that's what Starmer seems to be aiming at.
Keir Starmer's pledge to introduce a "Prevention of Military Intervention Act" could cause serious problems for the unity of NATO in future military adventures.
If voters feel it is important to have a government strongly committed to NATO then the obvious choice are the Tories.
Whatever political acrobatics Starmer performs.
"Keir Starmer’s pledge to introduce a “Prevention of Military Intervention Act” could cause serious problems for the unity of NATO in future military adventures."
Yes it could, but it probably won't.
I don't know the metrics behind "probably won't" but I think "highly probable" is a reasonable assessment, based for example on Starmer's view of the Iraq War, which according to him was, quote :
“not lawful under international law because there was no UN resolution expressly authorising it”
Whether legal or not, plenty of NATO countries refused to get involved in the initial invasion in 2003.
What is the point of the Labour party – just to be a less bad version of the Tories?”
Only if they want to get elected
Brilliant.
So we want all the same stuff as the Tories but with bells on.
Liberals despising the Tories but getting excited at Starmer aping their best bits is the most profoundly stupid thing I've ever read
Half expecting Starmer to dye his hair blonde and the usual crew come out with yeah he's got to get elected based on what made Johnson popular.
The Tories being electable is down to the Tories being good at Tories. If everyone is not ready for some form Socialism and redistribution at the end of this term then they are either rich or clueless.
Labour have to find an alternative and progressive route.
Keith will never introduce an act which might constrain military intervention. Never because he won't be legislating on anything and if he ever could he wont because it won't appeal to gammons and pro intervention centerists. It's not going to happen.
Whether legal or not, plenty of NATO countries refused to get involved in the initial invasion in 2003.
I don't know about "plenty" but perhaps you don't remember the huge tensions France's opposition to invasion caused. France has a long history of taking an arm's length attitude towards NATO and its US dominance, including long periods outside its command structure.
If Starmer wants to project a strong image of total commitment to NATO emulating France probably isn't a good idea, neither is talk of a "Prevention of Military Intervention Act”.
The problem with Starmer is that he is a liar, a fraud, and a hypocrite, what he claims to believe depends on who his audience is.
The only reason he gets away with it is because another self-serving liar is currently Prime Minister and there is no focus on him. Although Johnson at least has the decency not to claim that he is anything other than a Tory.
You confusing two separate issues by looking at this all backwards. NATO does not exist to help form invasion forces, it is about mutual defence, and resisting military expansion.
Yeah sure it is, just me and Starmer who are confused
Starmer seems very clear on this one (unusually for him as leader). Commitment to NATO, and its primary role in resisting military expansion from what is now the Russian Federation, is and should be Labour policy. That isn’t at odds with a policy opposing uninvited military intervention. Stop The War need to be more than just against Western military invasions, they need to call out Russian military threats, and accept that mutual protection support is sadly required in the countries Russia is threatening.
they need to call out Russian military threats
Well that made me chuckle! 🙂
Stop the War Coalition exists to galvanise public opinion and put pressure on Parliament not to engage in wars and military adventures.
Quite why you think they have a role to play in influencing Russian foreign policy I have no idea.
Precisely my point. And why Starmer had to speak out. If Stop The War, and particularly MPs claiming to speak for them that used to head up the Labour Party, are putting the blame on NATO for Russia threatening Eastern European countries, than Starmer had to speak up. How could he have stayed silent?
They’re only against advancing forces if they are Western forces.
Is what I said. That’s fine if that’s all they are interested in. Focus can be useful for a campaigning organisation, even if it looks hypocritical to the public. Anyone hoping to be UK PM needs have much broader aims though.
Starmer had to speak out. If Stop The War, and particularly MPs claiming to speak for them that used to head up the Labour Party, are putting the blame on NATO for Russia threatening Eastern European countries, than Starmer had to speak up. How could he have stayed silent?
So is he going to extend his criticism to the French and German governments for recognising the need to address Russia's security concerns?
Or is he going to restrict his criticism to the soft Daily Mail approved target of Stop the War Coalition?
So is he going to extend his criticism to the French and German governments for recognising the need to address Russia’s security concerns?
Or is he going to restrict his criticism to the soft Daily Mail approved target of Stop the War Coalition?
France and Germany are part of NATO, and are supporting Eastern European countries. Why would Starmer be criticising them for their diplomatic efforts?
Importantly, Stop The War have MPs speaking for them that used to have the two biggest Labour front bench roles. That means Starmer has to either respond, or Labour will be seen to be supporting them. Everyone can see that. Only you pretend otherwise. He doesn’t have the option of not criticising Stop The War over this, he had to speak up, because Corbyn and Abbot were in recent times the public face of the party he now leads.
Putins useful idiots playing a blinder again, I see 😂
Everyone can see that. Only you pretend otherwise. He doesn’t have the option of not criticising Stop The War over this
There is nothing quite like exaggerating the correctness and importance of your own opinion than claiming that everyone agrees you.
I think it is probably best not to challenge your statements on behalf of everyone any further 👍
Putins useful idiots playing a blinder again, I see 😂
Hey, they were Saddam Hussein's useful idiots too binners!
The latest opinion poll has the Labour lead back in single figures :
Lab 41% (+1)
Con 33% (+1)
Lib Dem 9% (-1)
Green 6% (nc)
SNP 4% (nc)
Others 7%
https://www.techneuk.com/tracker/
Not a bad result for the Tories considering all the negative news of the last couple of months. With the next GE still a couple of years away they still have plenty of scope to pull back after the importance of partygate eventually fizzles out.
Unless of course Labour provides an effective, inspiring, and believable alternative, before then.
Hey, they were Saddam Hussein’s useful idiots too binners!
Well if you listen to Seamas Milne apparently Stalin was simply misunderstood and wasn’t actually a bad bloke
What are you doing listening to Seamas Milne binners?
Or is it perhaps more of a case of reading the Daily Mail?
"With the next GE still a couple of years away they still have plenty of scope to pull back after the importance of partygate eventually fizzles out."
Pull back what? If you're suggesting that in two years time the sting will have been taken out of partygate then you're probably right but by then cost of living concerns, corruption and Brexit woes will be hitting the public hard.
Partygate hurt our feelings, the other s*** is really going to hurt our pockets. It'll be a different conversation by then.
What are you doing listening to Seamas Milne binners?
He’s a Guardian reader. Milne was a Guardian writer. Join the dots.
but by then cost of living concerns, corruption and Brexit woes will be hitting the public hard.
Let's hope so eh? Let's hope things get really bad. Fingers crossed.
I can't imagine how else Labour can win.
Let’s hope things get really bad.
Here we go… no one is “hoping” or wanting things to get bad, they unfortunately are doing so… largely as a result of the Brexit you wanted and the people you helped put in power.
He’s a Guardian reader. Milne was a Guardian writer. Join the dots.
A Joseph Stalin fan wrote for the Guardian????? Wow!
Still, that should make it very easy indeed for binners to provide links showing Milne claiming that, quote,"Stalin was simply misunderstood and wasn’t actually a bad bloke"
Yes, Milne wrote for years for the Guardian, back when I used to read it regularly. And, yes, one of his things was saying that the effects of and motivations behind Stalin’s policies were overblown, and not enough is made of the good he did. You know “not everyone executed or in forced Labour camps were political prisoners, look at the positives”… that kind of stuff. Fun bloke.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane… the boring and uninspiring Starmer was getting depressing for me again, after a few weeks of being on good form, I must admit. Being reminded that he doesn’t have Milne and Murray at the heart of the Labour team has cheered me up a bit, maybe even given me a bit of hope that he can bring more of the public onside.
Right… all this talk about Stop The War makes he want to go and listen to some Brian Eno. There are lots of good dedicated people who are part of the Coalition, and they have the best intentions, in my opinion. And have often been proven correct by history. It’s not heresy to criticise them when it comes to Putin’s expansionist intents though.
In which year did Stop The War come into being?
1938?
Starmer had to speak up
The only reason starmer is talking bollocks about nato and STWC is that he wants to show the establishment war mongers and arms dealers that he’s no threat to them. He couldn’t give a shit about Ukraine or Russia.
The only reason starmer is talking bollocks about nato and STWC is that he wants to show the establishment war mongers and arms dealers that he’s no threat to them. He couldn’t give a shit about Ukraine or Russia
Bang on the cash. For some reason UK liberals and centerists get rock hard for a foreign war fought by other people's kids. Everytime the same revolting spectacle, everytime 'the adults in the room' clamour. A disappointing but unsurprising stance from the least imaginative Labour leader in my nearly 4 decades on this earth.
The only possible positive is that when he loses to Sunak (or whoever it is) that's the end of the road for Labour party centerism. I have my doubts though.
So just to clarify:
We should all cheer on Putin as he invades Ukraine because it’s one in the eye for the ****ing Americans (booooo, hiss IRAQ!!!), NATO, the EU and those bastard Labour centrists, and Just proves that St Corbyn, Dianne and their mates on Russia Today were right about absolutely everything, as always?
Does that pretty much cover it?
(booooo, hiss IRAQ!!!)
Ah, I see from your amusing ridicule that you were an Iraq War supporter binners. I can't say that surprises me.
Did you know that Starmer was opposed to the War and that he said it was :
“not lawful under international law because there was no UN resolution expressly authorising it”
Btw I'm still waiting for your link to the Guardian articles where, according to you, Seamas Milne says, quote: "Stalin was simply misunderstood and wasn’t actually a bad bloke". It should make interesting reading.
We should all cheer on Putin as he invades Ukraine
FFS not joining in with the whole ‘come and have a go if you think your hard enough’ rubbish is a far cry from cheering on Putin. Whether you like it or not half of the Ukraine see themselves as Russian, the other half don’t. If the Americans hadn’t got themselves involved in something they couldn’t control none of this would be happening now.
Have you forgotten how to use google? If you just stick in ‘Seamas Milne - Stalinist’ it’ll bring you up a number of options. It’s no big secrets. He’s always been very open about his admiration for Stalin, like many of the privately educated millionaire socialists he associates with in Islington
Ah, I see from your amusing ridicule that you were an Iraq War supporter binners. I can’t say that surprises me
I was totally opposed to the Iraq war but whether Blair supported it or not wouldn’t have made the slightest difference to whether it went ahead or not, and the way everything he did is viewed through the prism of it is just typical of the infantile sixth form level view of the world that characterises ‘the left’
Corbyn and Abbots comments about Ukraine and Russia are typically laughable. Why anyone gives any credibility to these morons is utterly beyond me
Whether you like it or not half of the Ukraine see themselves as Russian, the other half don’t
There’s a load of British ex-pats live in Spain and the South of France, maybe we should take that as licence to invade them?
I love the absolutely enormous hypocrisy of ‘the left’. The Americans invading Iraq? The worst thing in the history of the world EVER! The Russians invading Ukraine? Absolutely fine. Move along now. Nothing to see here.
The Russians invading Ukraine? Absolutely fine
The Russians aren’t going to invade Ukraine. And your comparison with Iraq is stupid. If Ukraine was like Iraq Kyiv would already be in flames.
Give it a week
They regularly invade. They didn’t stop in 2014. The only question is whether there will be a much larger invasion in the near future. I agree that’s unlikely, but they’re testing other nations to work out whether they can get away with it or not. It’s far more likely that they’ll seek to replace regional administrations with their own choice of leaders, with military backing… and Ukraine will get steadily smaller over the next decade or so.
Anyway, if an ex Labour leader as part of his role in Stop The War says what Dazh says, ie that ongoing or increasing conflict in Ukraine is down to NATO or the US, and that we shouldn’t be offering support… well, his successor has to speak out. Putin will push West if we signal that we’re going to leave Eastern European countries to sink or swim without our support.
He’s always been very open about his admiration for Stalin
So where are all these Guardian articles where Milne, according to you, said that "Stalin was simply misunderstood and wasn’t actually a bad bloke”, since you claim that he is very open about his admiration?
It really shouldn't be very difficult for you to find.
And I am not interested in articles where he is accused of being a Stalinist, that is not what you said, so that link of yours is completely meaningless.
I can only assume that if you are incapable of providing a link where Milne openly admires Stalin, and says he was simply misunderstood and wasn't actually a bad bloke, it's because it is complete bollocks that you made up.
And after all what would be the likelihood of the Guardian Newspaper employing someone with those alleged views as associate editor? So no great surprise.
I was totally opposed to the Iraq war
Yes of course you were. Ridiculing opposition to the Iraq War is precisely what can be expected from someone who who was "totally opposed" to it.
That makes perfect sense in the binners world of logic.
The Russians aren’t going to invade Ukraine.
They already have
Its already killed 1000s of Ukrainians since 2014
Putin will push West if we signal that we’re going to leave Eastern European countries to sink or swim without our support
You’re not allowed to say that though, because everything is apparently the fault of Western Imperialism if you listen to the usual hopelessly naive Putin stooges
hopelessly naive
Says the man who expects people to believe bollocks that he can't backup.
that ongoing or increasing conflict in Ukraine is down to NATO or the US
Did I say that? It’s a simple fact that many/most of the people in the east of Ukraine want to be Russian. Many in the west of Ukraine want to be more western. It’s also undeniable that the US exploited the latter to push it’s influence eastwards. There are two sides to this, and as usual a whole population stuck in the middle who don’t care one way or the other.
who don’t care one way or the other
You think the people of Ukraine don’t care whether they are invaded or not? That they don’t want to stay outside the RF? Even many of those with Russian roots want to stay separate from the RF, many are there for just that very reason. Yes there are people who want to be within the RF, and some are armed by Russia and part of the ongoing conflict.
Maybe those 140,000 Russian troops are waiting for Comrade Jeremy to turn up and show them how to best plant runner beans in the new allotments they’re there to establish?
You think the people of Ukraine don’t care whether they are invaded or not?
No what I meant was that they don’t care about the geo-political willy-waving of putin and Biden. Clearly they don’t want to be invaded, but I bet they’re not as hysterical about it as the western media and politicians using it to support their own petty egos and ambitions.
And do you think the risk of invasion would be gone if western countries refused to support Ukraine and left them to deal with Russia alone?
waiting for Comrade Jeremy to turn up and show them how to best plant runner beans in the new allotments they’re there to establish?
Jeezus your bizarre obsession with Corbyn really has got a complete grip over you, hasn't it?
At every conceivable opportunity you have to bring up Corbyn. Get over it ffs
Who brought up Stop The War? Not Binners. How was that going to avoid mention of Corbyn? Not his fault this time. Perhaps we can add “Corbyn” to the swear filter.
I think it was Starmer who bought up STWC, according to news reports. This thread is about Starmer.
That doesn't necessarily mean that binners is automatically obliged to go into one of his rants about Corbyn being a bearded allotment dweller.
As far as I am aware no one else has felt the need to talk about Corbyn
Groundhog Day.
Ernie… comrade… have you actually read any of that link I posted up? Clealrly not. If you click on the many links from that article they’ll take you to Seamas Milne articles justifying Stalinism.
It’s no secret. He’s open about his admiration of a genocidal mass murderer. Which is why quire a few eyebrows were raised when the then leader of the Labour Party appointed him as his chief policy advisor
Though given what Jezza and Dianne have had to say over the last week they’re equally swooney over Putin
Back to Starmer, does anyone think he cares? He doesn’t care about Ukraine, all he sees is another opportunity to ally himself with arms dealers and shady power brokers and ingratiate himself with the people who could prevent him being prime minister.
Mate, much as I love you, do you not get tired with your cynical, depressive nihilism? It’s not healthy
You really think that Starmer is saying what he said because he’s allying himself with arms dealers? Seriously?
It’s no secret. He’s open about his admiration of a genocidal mass murderer. Which is why quire a few eyebrows were raised when the then leader of the Labour Party appointed him as his chief policy advisor
If he openly admires Stalin it would be very easy for you to provide links in which he openly admires Stalin.
Despite repeated requests you simply cannot. The only thing you have managed to do is provide a link to someone claiming that he admires Stalin.
Jeremy Corbyn has been accused of being a terrorist sympathiser, as indeed has former US president Barack Obama, it is a fairly standard smear from right-wingers like yourself who lack the ability to engage in constructive debate.
It doesn't however mean that there is any truth in the claims or that, for example, they were admirers of Osama bin Laden, whatever quotes of theirs are creatively taken in isolation and out of context.
It is designed to provide simple knee-jerk reactions from people who want to believe it and can't be bothered to think.
It was a smear also used extensively by right-wingers against Sadiq Khan when he first stood for London mayor, and of course was based on what he had previously said being taken out of context.
The fact that you feel compelled to resort to those right-wing tabloid tactics binners speaks volumes. Especially as you claim be a member of the Labour Party - most people who use gutter-raking tactics are more honest.
Btw your claim that a self-confessed admirer of Stalin was appointed by Corbyn "raised a few eyebrows" is made all the more ridiculous by fact that he was an associate editor of the Guardian at the time of his appointment. You must have done a lot of eyebrow raising every time you picked up your beloved bastion and holy bible of liberal thought 😉
made all the more ridiculous by fact that he was an associated editor of the Guardian at the time of his appointment
To be fair, the Guardian also had Melanie Phillips as a columnist.
To be fair, the Guardian also had Melanie Phillips as a columnist.
Only when she was a left-wing liberal, not after she became a rabid right-winger. Unsurprisingly.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/jun/16/media.politicsphilosophyandsociety
Her world view, whether she is writing about the inadequacies of the education system or the sanctity of marriage, seem a world away from Guardian values now. She clearly sees the split in the same way.
do you not get tired with your cynical, depressive nihilism?
It’s hardly depressive it’s just realistic. Doesn’t take a political genius to work out what his motivations are. He desperately needs to prove to the arms industry that he isn’t a threat to their grubby business, and the Ukraine issue is a perfect opportunity.
The latest Opinium opinion poll for The Observer gives Labour a 3% lead, the smallest Labour lead in many weeks.
But, and it's quite a big but, Opinium have used a different methodology for their latest poll. Under the previous methodology the the Labour lead would be 10%. This is apparently due to "the fact that many Conservative voters are moving to undecided (and being excluded from the headline vote share figure), which is a big part of the reason for the recent Labour leads".
https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/uk-voting-intention-27th-january-2022-2/
No idea of the accuracy of the new methodology but presumably The Observer as a client has sufficient confidence in Opinium. And according to Opinium :
In the 2019 General Election, our final poll matched the final result almost exactly – with only the green vote overstated by 1%.
"As far as I am aware no one else has felt the need to talk about Corbyn"
I have!
The simple fact is that Corbyn has inserted himself into the picture. I don't doubt his intentions and he is nothing if not consistent in his beliefs. I'm not even questioning his motives but the man is so blind to realities that he can't see the damage he causes.
Does his presence help the stop the war coalition? Nope. Does it help the Labour Party? Nope. Does he potentially provide ammunition for the RW, media, with which they can seek to tarnish the Labour Party in general? Yes.
I say potentially because by leaving Starmer no choice Corbyn manages to demonstrate how detached from the mainstream of the Labour Party he has become. It's not that Starmer is trying to appease the Daily Mail, hes just taking another opportunity to demonstrate to the public that he is nothing like Corbyn whatsoever.
Jeremy is becoming more like his brother every day.
Jeremy is becoming more like his brother every day.
Idiotic comment quite frankly. Corbyn is doing what he's always done, which is campaign for peace and social justice. That's all he's ever done, and he's been completely consistent in what he says and does. If you think that's a bad thing and 'doing damage' then that's more a reflection on you than Corbyn.
The simple fact is that Corbyn has inserted himself into the picture. I don’t doubt his intentions and he is nothing if not consistent in his beliefs. I’m not even questioning his motives but the man is so blind to realities that he can’t see the damage he causes.
Does his presence help the stop the war coalition? Nope. Does it help the Labour Party? Nope. Does he potentially provide ammunition for the RW, media, with which they can seek to tarnish the Labour Party in general? Yes.
I say potentially because by leaving Starmer no choice Corbyn manages to demonstrate how detached from the mainstream of the Labour Party he has become. It’s not that Starmer is trying to appease the Daily Mail, hes just taking another opportunity to demonstrate to the public that he is nothing like Corbyn whatsoever.
Jeremy is becoming more like his brother every day.
Bringing up Corbyn at every conceivable opportunity certainly gives you and binners the opportunity to deflect any criticism of Starmer, on a thread about Starmer, away. As Daz's comment proves.
The RW media don't attack stop the war because of Corbyn and Abbot, they attack Stop The War because the RW media like foreign wars.
The RW media didn't attack Corbyn because of him as a person. They attacked him because he became plausible threat.
The RW media attack the Labour party at any time they are seen as the slightest, most minute threat. C.f. Brown, Miliband. Starmer's strategy is to minimise and sense of threat - where the 'threat' is any real change - in the hope of getting the acquiesce of the RW media.
And, the strategy won't work, because the RW media will go into overdrive to attack him come the next general election.
"The RW media don’t attack stop the war because of Corbyn and Abbot,"
Really?
"The RW media didn’t attack Corbyn because of him as a person. They attacked him because he became plausible threat"
Well, much of the rest of the country saw him as a plausible threat as well..I know you think it's all down to mischaracterisation by the media but there's more to it than that.
"The RW media attack the Labour party at any time"
True enough, so give them as little ammunition as possible, the most the RW media has come up with recently is bottleofbeergate. Is seems to me that in trying to open up a fissure in the Labour Party that you are in danger of doing the RW media's job for them but that fissure has become a chasm that the media is struggling to bridge right now due to the strategy pursued by Starmer.
But beyond the individuals involved, it is rather worrying when the views of Stop the War chime so closely with those of Tucker Carlson's on Fox News. It opens up a territory where the far right and the far left can find agreement and therein lies danger.
For those reasons I am now much more of a centrist than I once was. The Tories have vacated the centre ground in recent years and I'm more than happy if Labour manages to occupy that territory. They don't stand a chance of forming a government if they don't.