I know most punters on stw fondly hang on to this stereotype as it’s obviously warmly reassuring to dismiss Brexiteers as stupid and uneducated.
I think there was data to back this up though wasn't there? Also being educated doesn't exempt you from political naivety and racism.
I live in a wealthy village in the New Forest. Retired doctors, senior people in companies etc,. stupid they are not. Being in or out of the EU would make very little difference to their lives, they can't even have an issue with immigration and any impact whatsoever to them.
This is a ~65% Brexit and ~65% Tory voting area.
When I talked to them about Brexit, most were in favour but not a single one of them can actually give any sort of reason other than the typical bullshit the likes of Farage puts out.
Same goes for why they vote Tory, nothing to really back it up.
Does that make them stupid? (I know a few of them are a bit racist!)
On the other hand I’m a C2 who left school with only CSEs and hates the EU. So I guess I fit the stereotype nicely.
Yep, stupid racist.
Obviously not in all cases - but it's not so much as these people are stupid and dumb (hell, my local barista who makes incredible coffee and food - always on the wrong side of history, anti-vax, Brexit, anti-Corbyn, pro distorted free market, foreigners taking all the money etc.) - it's that they are really pissed and frustrated and their anger lands in the wrong place, cunningly guided by the newspapers.
Remind them the institutions of the last 40 years have robbed them and future generations. The ones they voted for.
The one problem now is you have the likes of Julia Spewer dividing these people up now into a fight for their freedoms against the elite and the msm. When in reality they are do the job of the actual elite by blaming foreigners and scroungers.
The more you carve society up the harder it is to heal.
If division delivers the 25% of the voting age public that you need into the booths to put a tick against your candidates… then why try and do away with it? Of course there are politicians who genuinely want to heal divisions… but are they winners? I consider Starmer one of those who want to being people back together… but no, not a winner.
Yep, it's no good dismissing people who have not developed class consciousness with white van man ad hominems. The flag waving and imagined communities may well express a misplaced desire for solidarity and mutual support. The task is to swivel that anger against migrants and the EU towards bosses, rent-seekers and a Tory government who are really the ones who are screwing them over. If your arguments and evidence are any good you don't need to storm off in impotent outrage. Stay for the extra pint, cajole and persuade.
I really like my “boss”. There’s more than one way to cynically divide up the population.
There's some lovely smiley people out there extracting the surplus value from their underlings. Do you imagine that the capitalist system is divided between the nasty and the nice?
kerley Free Member
I live in a wealthy village in the New Forest. Retired doctors, senior people in companies etc,. stupid they are not.
On the other hand I’m a C2 who left school with only CSEs and hates the EU. So I guess I fit the stereotype nicely.
Yep, stupid racist.
So the posh people in your wealthy village didn't support brexit because they are stupid. However in my case because I am working-class it must be because I am stupid.
Well there's nothing quite like a bit of bigoted class prejudice, on a forum full of middle-class guardian-reading liberals.
So the posh people in your wealthy village didn’t support brexit because they are stupid.
They are not stupid in a qualification/job sense but I would say they are stupid politically based on their understanding of EU and Tories.
However in my case because I am working-class it must be because I am stupid.
I really didn't think a smiley was necessary on that one but here you go 🙂
So now you're smiling whilst calling me stupid?!?!
ffs
The comment "Yep, stupid racist" was clearly (well I thought so) meant as a joke.
No I am not seriously calling you a stupid racist.
Hang on...
Tony Blair, the arch-blairite Labour politician
What? Blair's a Blairite? Jawdrop emoji.
was making it crystal clear that he didn’t want to see a left-wing Labour government.
...I thought he was saying he didn't think Corb would be a good PM. Can you link the relevant quote? Actually no need, because who cares? He's an ex pol who still comments and gets on the news but has no position or major influence that I can see.
Come on Earnie, you're smart, not a racist, and had very reasonable objections to things done at the EU level. In terms of being pro-Brexit... I still don't think you've seriously grasped what and who Brexit enables, and what they are going to do to us with the power we've given them.
FFS I was taking the piss! It's what I do! Nothing discussed on here actually matters.
Anyway on a more serious note my point still stands.
Middle-class liberals are very quick to characterise working-class people who support brexit as stupid thick racists.
And yet I have never heard a middle-class liberal describe Tony Benn as a stupid thick racist.
In the 1980s it was Labour Party policy to leave the EEC. Obviously the party was then full of stupid thick racists, but I have never heard a middle-class liberal describe Michael Foot as a stupid thick racist.
So why is that? Well Tony Benn and Michael Foot were both middle-class educated lefties, like themselves, so it is not possible that they were stupid thick racists.....they probably even read the Guardian.
So yeah, bigoted class prejudice by middle-class guardian-reading liberals is very much alive. Ironically.
In the 1980s it was Labour Party policy to leave the EEC.
...and some cough*Corbyn*cough remained stuck in that era. As is pointed out extensively in other threads. Brexit and thick racist are overlapping circles on the Venn, but not the same thing.
Brexit and thick racist are overlapping circles on the Venn
Is that something to do with maths?
I only got CSE maths.
Plenty of 'thick' racist middle-class people in the current cabinet. Some are only there because of Brexit, they'd never have got the posts they now have without it.
Stay for the extra pint, cajole and persuade.
You’d be better off trying to teach a cat to windsurf
You’d be better off trying to teach a cat to windsurf
Don't undersell yourself binners, I have seen your remarkable eloquence on here.
If there's one man who can cajole and persuade it's got to be you.
Just remember to take your blood pressure tablet before you walk into the Rose and Crown.
Just remember to take your blood pressure tablet before you walk into the Rose and Crown.
Does it have a big screen for sports that he could connect a laptop to and so educate them via the use of hilarious images?
Nothing discussed on here actually matters.
Always amazed at the number of people on here who haven't grasped this central truth.
Middle-class liberals are very quick to characterise working-class people who support brexit as stupid thick racists.
Or nazi appeasers 😏
…and some cough*Corbyn*cough remained stuck in that era.
And ironically had Corbyn stuck to his 1980s views on the EEC labour might have held on to many of those brexit voting seats in the north and the midlands.
And probably held even fewer seats nationwide.
And probably held even fewer seats nationwide.
Yes of course, because under the visionary leadership of prime-minister-to-be Jo Swinson, the resurgent Lib Dems would have wiped the floor against labour just like they did in 2017. We have the power of hindsight now, and the facts are pretty clear that the remainer lib dem threat to labour was non-existent compared to the brexit supporting tory threat in red-wall seats.
There are very few Labour vs LibDem marginals... so I have no idea what you're on about.
There are very few Labour vs LibDem marginals…
Which doesn't really help your point. It comes down to whether the labour remain vote was bigger than the labour brexit vote in labour marginals. The labour leadership, under pressure from centrist remainers such as Starmer made a decision to fall on the remain side of the fence. Evidently that was a catastrophically wrong decision given that we now know the election result.
To put it simply... in most seats people deciding not to vote Labour gives us more Conservative MPs, not more LibDem ones. A firmly "Brexit at all costs, no further votes" policy would have decimated Labour support in many seats. Voters would have stayed away, or voted Green, LibDem, PC... resulting in more Tory MPs not more Green or LibDem seats (well, apart from a small number possible of seats).
A firmly “Brexit at all costs, no further votes” policy would have decimated Labour support in many seats. Voters would have stayed away, or voted Green, LibDem, PC…
But the evidence of the election doesn't support that does it? You're just assuming that's the case to support your remain position and justify the labour pro-remain policy. Labour didn't have a pro-remain policy in 2017 and didn't lose all it's support as you suggest. The only thing we know for certain is that labour shifted to a pro-remain policy and lost loads of seats in it's traditional heartlands to the tories, which it previously held with a 'respect the result' policy.
Middle-class liberals are very quick to characterise working-class people who support brexit as stupid thick racists.
Interesting article I read about why many people with heritage from the Indian sub-continent voted Brexit - essentially a lot of them wondered why it was that they fought for Britain/the allies in WWII but then had less rights/a harder time staying here than people from nations we'd fought against or who hadn't done as much. Also perhaps that we owed a debt from colonial exploitation etc. Interesting perspective and one I'd not considered.
justify the labour pro-remain policy
Labour didn’t have a pro-remain policy in 2019. It had a fudged policy to try and fight many different fights in many different types of seat. It didn't "work", but let's not kid ourselves that Labour were doing well before they adopted that fudge. They were fourth in the polls at one point.
.
Ooh you don't say Ed. Go big? Oh what with big macroeconomic policy. Yes of course. People on s/t don't believe it though. They think being successful is all about PMQs.
Mind you you're not Corbyn so they probably will agree, and because it's in the Guardian it will be a great piece
They were fourth in the polls at one point.
Let's not also forget Labour were 9pts ahead in May 2019 too. (Kantar)
Something the current Labour leadership can only dream of.
Ooh you don’t say Ed. Go big?
There's going to be a lot of this in next year or so. All the labour big beasts will be manoevring for pole position, and Ed clearly fancies another crack at it. He makes all the right noises but still short on detail. It's all very well talking about green new deal and 'properly financed' social care but it needs flesh on the bone as right now people just think it's a lofty ideal.
What green jobs will be generated? Who will they be available to? Where's the education and training coming from to get these jobs? He wants a social housing revolution, where will they be built? How much will they cost and who will be prioritsed? How's he going to control and prevent the ruthless instincts of the market? We're long past talking about what's wrong, we all know already, what we need to hear is how it's going to be fixed.
I'd like to hear all that detail as well... but then at the last two elections Labour were the only party with properly set out and costed plans in their manifesto... many people aren't moved by that kind of detail in the slightest... they want to read the front page of manifestos, at most, and then weigh up the vague lofty wiffle waffle of the two front benches, especially the leaders, and, unfortunately, the take of "journalists" about whether it's all credible or not.
Sorry, I still have no answers, only problems... I should shut up.
Gove found to have broke the law in case brought by Good Law Project. Come on Keir don't let us down.
Tony Benn and Michael Foot were both middle-class educated
Is this Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn, Viscount Stansgate you’re saying is middle class?
I think the horrible elephant in the room is that we just live in a country stuffed with intolerant racists. Way, way more than we thought. Boris’s Brexit escapade went better than he could dared to dream so he’s expanded his brief
So the Tory party has now said “do you know what? Being an intolerant racist is fine. We’re down with that. Vote for us! Show those bloody remainer snowflakes who’s boss! We’ve sent all those bloody foreigners home, so boo those BLM, knee-taking Marxist bastards with pride while you wave your flag!”
And so we are where we are. Who’s Labour leader is largely academic, unless it’s DazH who we’ve already established is worse than Hitler. He might appeal. He’s a vegetarian, just like Adolf. Makes you think....
He’s a vegetarian
A reborn religious vegan these days. I note the supposedly long time veggie Starmer was eating sea bass last night whilst out on the town with the Batley and Spen candidate. Is there anything he won’t water down to make himself less controversial?
Sea bass - in Batley?
Was it battered and served with a chef's smear of curry sauce?
No food is complete without a chef's smear.
Side of cheesy chips?
Kebab on the way home?
Is this Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn, Viscount Stansgate you’re saying is middle class?
No I said was. He's dead now.
I also said that Tony Blair is an arch-blairite Labour politician, which apparently was an issue for johnx2
It's a funny ol'world, innit?
I think the horrible elephant in the room is that we just live in a country stuffed with intolerant racists.
Well thank **** someone finally mentioned it binners. I kept thinking to myself "can this elephant in the room get any bigger....... when the **** is someone going to mention intolerant racists?"
I can't believe that we got to page 172 without anyone mentioning intolerant racists. Not the other sort.
Yeah, but, but, but...
We didn’t want to accept that they’re in the majority.
They are
It’s shit
Where does that leave the Labour Party?
We didn’t want to accept that they’re in the majority.
Not just that, we're stuffed with them.
"No thanks, I can't take another racist, I'm stuffed".
It's amazing how no one on here wanted to talk about racists. It was indeed the elephant in the room binners.
I think it was perhaps because everyone on here is simply too polite and didn't feel comfortable accusing people of being racist. Terribly British dontcha know.
I have always accepted racism is in the majority (in all countries) to some degree.
Seems to be in most peoples nature and part of being a tribal species. I think it was kept bottled up for 20 years in the UK as was seen as unacceptable so only mentioned in private but social media and populist politicians have opened it up over the last decade and people now feel it is more acceptable that it has been for a while.
