Forum menu
You are funny. It’s the “football tribalism” of politics he was poking fun at.
Binners might well poke fun at it but he is without doubt guilty of it. Consistency and lack of hypocrisy are not binners strongest points.......he will regularly accuse people of the very things which he is guilty of.
Which of course, however unintentional it might be, greatly adds to the comic value of his rants 🙂
Who has been saying that Kelvin?
The people we both observed on Twitter, that we were both talking about.
And perhaps a few people in this thread. It’s all very dull now. Goodnight.
but I can’t see where he has claimed that Lammy is now the enemy.
If Lammy is the enemy of anything it’s not Corbyn or those of us who wanted him to win an election. He’s the enemy of everyone who wants our politicians to be honest, principled and to act in the interests of their constituents.
In making those comments he wasn’t doing that. He was acting in his own career interests and the interests of those who are seeking to rid the Labour Party of anyone with an opposite view to the current leadership. He allowed himself to be put in the ‘they’re all the same’ box and that’s bigger than any party or factional issue.
What is unprincipled about expressing regret about playing a part in making Corbyn leader, or supporting him as leader? At this point I’d be disappointed with Lammy if he wasn’t prepared to say that on the record. I’m glad Lammy supported Corbyn while he was leader. I’m glad he is supporting the lack lustre Starmer as leader now. Labour MPs that support the elected leader and work to try and get them into office… it’ll never catch on.
perhaps a few people in this thread. It’s all very dull now.
Not too sure eh? I can well understand why it's suddenly become rather dull for you now.
What is unprincipled about expressing regret about playing a part in making Corbyn leader
I’m glad Lammy supported Corbyn while he was leader.
I think you’ve answered your own question. The public want politicians who are principled and act on their behalf not their own and the corporate interests who have privileged access to them.
Lammy supported Corbyn because he thought it would be good for his ‘career’. Now he does the opposite because he thinks it will again be good for his ‘career’. This is exactly the thing that people hate about politics and politicians.
Instead of slagging him off and dredging up the anti-semitism smears again, all he had to say was ‘Corbyn was the democratically elected leader of our party and it was my job to support him’. He didn’t do that though did he?
That Lammy has been supportive of a string of Labour leaders makes him front bench material to me. What do you want from him? To sulk off to the back benches, singing the praises of a failed leader? I just wish Labour had a far more engaging leader for him to be backing right now.
The public want politicians who are principled and act on their behalf not their own and the corporate interests who have privileged access to them.
Is this the same public who just gave Boris Johnson a huge majority?
Just checking?
Is this the same public who just gave Boris Johnson a huge majority?
28% of them, yes.
But with the majority he has, he gets to rule like a medieval king, right?
And that’s what the electorate of this country delivered
And… erm… wasnt his opponent somebody who apparently exemplified all those values you stated, according to his fan club?
Hmmmmmmm
So… given that, would you care to re-state your previous assertion…
That Lammy has been supportive of a string of Labour leaders makes him front bench material to me.
Supporting a leader all well and good. But to then come out and say that you wish you hadn’t, and because you think he’s a racist, just looks a bit stupid. Or it looks like he’s willing to suck up to anyone, even if they were a racist, in order to further his career.
Is this the same public who just gave Boris Johnson a huge majority?
Just checking?
I think it is fair to claim that the public want politicians who are principled and act on their behalf not their own and the corporate interests because it is undoubtedly true.
If you are claiming that the Labour Party shouldn't be concerned by such considerations because Boris Johnson isn't, as you clearly are, then you really need to re-evaluate your morality mate.
I don’t need to question my morality.
I voted for the weirdy beardy bloke. Twice
I’m questioning the faith you’re placing in the electorate given their track record over here last decade
Not great, is it?
I’m questioning the faith you’re placing in the electorate given their track record over here last decade
A significant minority of the electorate. Their track record is poor because the politicians who represent them repeatedly fail to do their jobs and the electorate don’t possess the power to hold them to account.
Have you forgotten why Corbyn trounced (twice) the candidates who you weirdly support today? He won because he offered an alternative to the cynical careerist principle free politics that preceded him. He would have beaten the tories too had those same people and their supporters done what Kelvin wants them to do. They didn’t though did they?
I’m questioning the faith you’re placing in the electorate given their track record over here last decade
No that's not true. You were questioning Daz's claim that the electorate want politicians who are principled and act on their behalf.
There is no doubt that Daz's claim is correct. The idea that the electorate want politicians that are unprincipled and not acting on their behalf is clearly absurd, as well you know.
He won because he offered an alternative to the cynical careerist principle free politics that preceded him.
To an electorate of what? 150,000 people? Most of them doing their A levels. That really went well with the actual electorate, didn’t it?
There is no doubt that Daz’s claim is correct. The idea that the electorate want politicians that are unprincipled and not acting on their behalf is clearly absurd, as well you know
So explain Boris’s 80 seat majority to me then. Because I got the impression that his opponent, who he absolutely trounced, was some kind of living god who exemplified everything you say the electorate actually want
Most of them doing their A levels
Who then went on to vote for starmer. I really don’t understand your hatred for the labour membership when you are one of them.
So explain Boris’s 80 seat majority to me then…
Oh come on man. Are you seriously claiming Johnson’s 80 seat majority is proof of majority support in the electorate despite the documented figures? It’s plainly obvious that the vast majority is against Johnson, but strangely you support the system and people who enable him.
Oh come on man. Are you seriously claiming Johnson’s 80 seat majority is proof of majority support in the electorate despite the documented figures?
He’s got an 8o seat majority delivered by the UK electorate at a general election.
All other figures are kind of academic
Do you lot plan on consciously recoupling with the real world before the next election or are you just happy that you ‘won the argument’ last time and hoping for a similar ‘victory’?
exemplified everything you say the electorate actually want
I haven't said "everything" the electorate actually want, that's just something you have made up.
What I have said is that it is obvious that the electorate don't want unprincipled politicians who don't represent their interests. Only an idiot would suggest that they do.
Your ridiculous counterclaim is based on the fact that Johnson won the last general election.
To use that as proof is as absurd as to claim that because Johnson won the election it proves that the electorate want their politicians to be liars.
The whole premise is wackadoodle nonsense.
What I have said is that it is obvious that the electorate don’t want unprincipled politicians who don’t represent their interests. Only an idiot would suggest that they do
Obvious? Eh? Well colour me, and **** knows how many other people as idiots then.
Boris has an 80 seat majority
His opponent, who was apparently some kind of sainted. Allotment-dwelling deity and a model of honesty and decency lost a massive amount of seats that had been Labour since the ice age
I don’t know what type of crack you lot are smoking but you seriously need to rein it in and maybe consider re-engaging with reality.
Tripping is fine. We’ve all done it. It’s fun. But you can’t run away from reality for ever
His opponent, who was apparently some kind of sainted. Allotment-dwelling deity and a model of honesty and decency lost a massive amount of seats that had been Labour since the ice age
The opponent could be Jesus and if the establishment prefers a neoliberal toff then it sure will do it's part to make sure Jesus is painted as the terrorist to the proletariat.
Also more seriously I think voting in a general election obviously is a heard based thing whereas individually people will say they are prepared to pay more taxes to fun the NHS (yes it's bollocks) but then vote to save their pocket.
But actually Covid has shown me that lots of people don't really care that much about each other, and typically fall on the right.
Not sure what we can do about that.
I think it reflects we've got a lot of rewiring to do and telling the truth ought to be the start.
I really would like to see Farage and his ilk extinct, along with Julia Hartley Brewer etc - as this lot push against the government (on big platforms) until they get the society that they want. Which is usually not in the best interests of society.
I see Johnson is about to be cleared over his flat refurb too. Sigh. What did we expect?
I genuinely think all this corruption and partygate stuff will blow over in the new year and Labour will firmly be behind again.
If you asked the average voter whether they wanted principled politicians who represent their interests I imagine 99% would say yes
However, when you add in the party that they represent it becomes a bit more blurred and then when you add in how much interest/understanding/thinking they really have in politics then you get a Tory party in power.
We knew what Boris would be like, they didn't work it out or care as presumably Brexit and continued tory party power was more important. They have worked it out now and seem to have gone off him. Maybe that smiley Sunak bloke will be better so they can now give him a go, but as long as it is not that evil Labour party who will take all their money away then it doesn't really matter.
28% of them, yes.
When looking at voting it is better to look at vote share even if that is more inconvenient to you (you cannot count people who don't bother to vote but if you do you should at least apply the same % across them as an estimate).
Tories had 44% which is almost half of those that voted.
But actually Covid has shown me that lots of people don’t really care that much about each other, and typically fall on the right.
Not sure what we can do about that.
It has been like that for a long time and the only real hope is for the younger generations but unfortunately once they hit their 40's they are more settled and become more selfish and also more likely to vote. Maybe the current generation won't be in the same position that previous ones were when the swing to Tory voting happens.
It has been like that for a long time and the only real hope is for the younger generations but unfortunately once they hit their 40’s they are more settled and become more selfish and also more likely to vote. Maybe the current generation won’t be in the same position that previous ones were when the swing to Tory voting happens.
Definitely.
But I thought covid might pull us in a uniform direction. Shake us up a bit. Force us to re-evaluate.
We knew what Boris would be like, they didn’t work it out or care as presumably Brexit and continued tory party power was more important
Also on this - I think folk have had it shit (tempered by house price inflation - yes the big one that gets ignored because it appears to benefit the middle-classes) for so long that they can't see the wood for the trees and they just can't tolerate or understand the change that society needs to make to be better.
A nation of self-harmers.
At 50 I don't think I'm ever going to see a redistributive government in my lifetime.
Obviously we are on a downward trajectory with market-forces and general financial instability (with chronic under investment of everything we actually need) but there isn't a government in waiting ready to tackle this correctly.
His opponent, who was apparently some kind of sainted. Allotment-dwelling deity and a model of honesty and decency lost a massive amount of seats that had been Labour since the ice age
The great thing about you is how you reliably repeat with fail or question the most moronic hard right attack lines.
Surely it didnt escape your attention, after all you were one of those who most partook in it, that there was a rather lengthy campaign from 2017 onwards to do the best to smear Corbyn as much as possible? YOu dont think that may have had an effect?
Anyway since votes are all important how is the forensic genius Starmer doing with his great campaign of doing sod all aside from purging the unbelievers.
Oh yeah he is seeing a massive drop in votes despite being against an openly corrupt and incompetent tory government that even the hard right press isnt bothering to support at the moment. Considering byelections generally go against the government its not really great when they dont exactly do well.
Tripping is fine. We’ve all done it. It’s fun. But you can’t run away from reality for ever
The sage words of the primary school politics student.
they can’t see the wood for the trees and they just can’t tolerate or understand the change that society needs to make to be better.
This. We have a weird toxic mix of 'isn't it awful' fatalism combined with legacy British exceptionalism. Makes us very easy to manipulate and totally disfunctional as a society.
I’m questioning the faith you’re placing in the electorate given their track record over here last decade
Not great, is it?
I realise that expecting binners to show some kind of consistency is laughably naive of me but aren't you the one who is always complaining about 'lefties' sneering at the electorate with contempt etc?
I don’t see how that can defined as sneering. It’s merely a statement of fact
They were twice offered what you all think they should want, and twice rejected it, the second time by an enormous margin.
The only time your beardy messiah found himself on the same side as the electorate was with his support for Brexit, where, somewhat ironically, his opinion was indistinguishable from Farage.
So the only field in which he can actually be deemed to have been successful is enabling a far right project of which he has been a vocal lifelong supporter and thus paving the way for the present government
At least you could have the good grace to acknowledge your part in getting us to where we are now. It’s on you lot, this.
If the electorate is generally right of centre putting up a
left wing leader in a general election is not going to go well (Corbyn was as populist as Johnson anyway, he just had to appeal to a small segment of the population who voted him in as leader). You may need to swallow your prjnciples a bit and go centrist (or as the left wing loons like to put it Tory lite). That then allows policy to start to move away from the right wing populist rubbish Johnson got elected on. If it delivers you may even find people start to become more left leaning and will tolerate more leftward policy. Its like trying to put someone on a veggie diet to lose weight which is fuly in their interests but wont happen. You have to cut down on the rubbish first and then introduce more healthy eating as they get used to the idea and see some weight loss.
I know it's a novel approach to politics, evolution rather than revolution, you could could give it a snappy title like the 10 year plan or something. Should keep the lefties happy.
At least you could have the good grace to acknowledge your part in getting us to where we are now. It’s on you lot, this.
Your lack of selfawareness really is stunning.
I thought it was the electorate's fault? Also, you voted for him twice so it's on you surely even if you take your premise to be correct.
If there's one area in which you can be relied upon its your total inconsistency, completely contradicting yourself sometimes often within the same post.
You may need to swallow your prjnciples a bit and go centrist
If there was any evidence of this being successful then I think even some of us lefties might jump on board.
I know it’s a novel approach to politics, evolution rather than revolution, you could could give it a snappy title like the 10 year plan or something. Should keep the lefties happy.
Wow what a novel and amazing idea. We could ohhhhh call it triangulation or I dunno the "third way" maybe?
I cant believe nobody has tried it before.
Ah wait.
Yeah we did and ended up with a hard right populist government with the centrist fruitcakes still not noticing the flaws in the plan and deciding the problem must be those nasty "lefties".
So care to explain how this cunning masterplan will work differently this time and not end up shifting the political window to the right meaning even slightly left wing ideas are now portrayed as far left or leaving people so disillusioned with politics all appearing the same that they vote for brexit in the hope it will bring change.
I thought it was the electorate’s fault? Also, you voted for him twice so it’s on you surely even if you take your premise to be correct.
You can only vote for what’s on the ballot paper. In this case we were being asked if we’d like our huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread
And anyway, you vote for your local representative, so in both cases I voted for James Frith.
If there was any evidence of this being successful then I think even some of us lefties might jump on board
If there was any evidence of this being successful then I think even some of us lefties might jump on board.
It is more about facing reality of the country we live in (well England anyway). They simply will not vote for a left wing party in enough numbers so you have to offer something they will vote for which is less worse than the Tory party.
Not great but that is how democracy works when you live in a country like England.
(Picking out England because Scotland and Wales do not have the same love of Tories)
They simply will not vote for a left wing party in enough numbers so you have to offer something they will vote for which is less worse than the Tory party.
Lets face reality here.
The centrist vote is far smaller so why exactly should the centrist loons be the one given exactly what they want and the left wing just expected to provide votes whilst the loons spit out "leftie" in the same way the hard right does?
The "less worse" is the sort of poisonous politics which leads to populism and brexit since the they are all the same as the others set in.
Why on earth after the venom and hatred spewed out by the "moderates" over the last few years should anyone on the left vote for the centrists loons. The centrists have made it clear they prefer a hard right brexit compared to anything vaguely leftwing.
Lets face reality here.
The centrist vote is far smaller
If that’s your opening gambit, and that’s what you think reality is, then you need to get out more and step outside your echo chamber.
The ‘centre’ you so clearly despise is where the majority of the electorate are to be found. If you fail to accept that as your starting point then you’re on a hiding to nothing, as the last two elections clearly demonstrated
I know this will really get you gnashing your leftie teeth, but all polling knows shows a clear and consistent ‘centrist’ Labour lead. 9 points at the moment, isn’t it?
But then we all know that you lot have never forgiven ‘him’ for actually winning elections
The ‘centre’ you so clearly despise is where the majority of the electorate are to be found.
If the majority of the electorate are found in the centre:
Why did a hard right government win?
Why does the centrist lib dems not win every election?
I know this will really get you really gnashing your leftie teeth, but all polling knows shows a clear ‘centrist’ Labour lead.
I love how you spit out "leftist" as an insult.
Just to be clear
What I dislike are the ones who announce themselves as "centrists"/"moderates" who cant accept they are a minority who dont have the automatic right to rule the country.
The ones who rather than working with those to either side simply insult them and demand the vote regardless.
The average libdem who doesnt announce they should rule the world I have a lot of time and sympathy for although sadly that party got badly damaged by the orange book lot.
Its those who cant accept they are a minority and instead of working within the centrist party instead want to take over labour and drag it righwards that I dislike.
Since it is those loons who create the conditions for the populist right giving them ammo about all the parties being the same as each other and the "political elite".
As for political lead. I know you cant do consistency but I seem to remember you dribbling out stuff about winning seats.
Even in byelections which tend to go against the ruling party.
Even when the ruling party has demonstrated itself to be corrupt.
Even when the ruling party has demonstrated itself to be incompetent.
Even when the tory press arent bothering to support them currently.
Remind me how many new seats Labour have won vs the libdems?
But then we all know that you lot have never forgiven ‘him’ for actually winning elections
Guess who wrote this binners?....
The mess the labour party is in is all down to Blair. Another thing we’ve got to thank him for. Due to his messiah complex, and his intolerence of free-thinking or disent, he hollowed out the party from the inside.
He parachuted MPs into labour seats, in most cases completely against the wishes of the constituancy party, who were just careerist yes men (and women) who would unquestioningly tow the party line. The Claire Shorts and Robin Cooks were soon despatched to the back benches. All decisions were then taken by Tony and his little cabal of spin doctors, Campbells minions. No debate, no discussion, no other opinions alowed to intrude on the One True Path. It became like a cult. Cabinet ministers were little more than spokesmen given their lines to read.
So now that some actual analysis, fresh thinking, and direction is needed, and god forbid… actual ideas!… its no wonder they’re not up to the job really, is it? They’ve never had an original thought in their lives. They’re just drones.
Do you recognise the style?
Yes mate, it was you.
Your inconsistency really is the stuff of legends.
The ‘centre’ you so clearly despise is where the majority of the electorate are to be found.
Evidence, please.
There’s an awful lot of bollocks being talked here about centrism/liberalism/whatever. Centrism is basically the ideology of trying to maximise benefits to the population at large without upsetting the rich elite. 20-30 years ago that just about worked as we still had a functioning tax and regulatory system. Trouble is today the power balance has tipped so much in favour of the rich they no longer feel any obligation to everyone else, and that makes the centrist strategy redundant, because they no longer have any leverage over the elite. Centrism can never work in the plutocratic monopolist oligarchy which we now live within.
Well there is Centrism and there is people wanting something in the middle, which are not the same thing and I am talking about the latter.
If they don't feel there is a choice in the middle they lean one way of the other. In England they tend to lean to the right and when combined with those who only want the right the tories win.
A coalition would probably be a better means of getting the same thing but that would no doubt be even more of a shitshow.
I know this will really get you gnashing your leftie teeth, but all polling knows shows a clear and consistent ‘centrist’ Labour lead. 9 points at the moment, isn’t it?
It's not enough and I can only see this fading away into the new year.
Great Pook and how have the Labour centrists done since then?
I know this will really get you gnashing your leftie teeth, but all polling knows shows a clear and consistent ‘centrist’ Labour lead. 9 points at the moment, isn’t it?
Has Starmer won the argument? I thought winning actual elections is what counts. Doesn't matter when he fails miserably in a by-election in which Corbyn did much better eh. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.
For all those crowing about poll numbers - what do the poll numbers say about Starmer Vs Sunak, the Tory leader-in-waiting? Oh...
Do you recognise the style?
🤣
Great Pook and how have the Labour centrists done since then?
Well iirc, they had 13 years of government up until 12 years ago.
Whatever you think of Blair he was a charismatic leader who enjoyed highly favourable economic conditions (and successfully cosied up to Rupert Murdoch).
Where is the evidence that simply being centrist is some magic formula for electoral success? How did that work out for Brown? How does it normally work out for the lib dems? How is it working out for Starmer?
Whatever you think of Blair he was a charismatic leader who enjoyed highly favourable economic conditions (and successfully cosied up to Rupert Murdoch).
Yes, it was a bit of a perfect storm when Blair got in and a very different time to now (no doubt helped by not having SNP taking all their seats in Scotland, imagine Labour having those 56 seats now to help them)
Where is the evidence that simply being centrist is some magic formula for electoral success?
There is no evidence, the evidence suggests that being Tory is the formula for winning over the last 40 years. For some reason people don't vote Lib Dem as they seem to stick to the main two parties. If people wanted a more left wing approach than current Labour they would vote Green but they don't, possibly for same reasons as people don't vote Lib Dem. They have no track record and the voters don't see them as a party to run the country.
For some reason people don’t vote Lib Dem as they seem to stick to the main two parties. If people wanted a more left wing approach than current Labour they would vote Green but they don’t, possibly for same reasons as people don’t vote Lib Dem. They have no track record and the voters don’t see them as a party to run the country.
It's no great mystery as to why the LibDems don't poll very high. In the general election twelve years ago they polled only six points behind Labour, but when they were in a position to make a difference it turned out that they weren't significantly different to the Tories.
Up until 2010 it was said that the LibDem's greatest handicap was that people simply didn't see them as a serious party of government. Any opportunity to change that would give them a huge boost in support, it was argued.
However it turned out that the LibDems having senior posts in government, including deputy prime minister and other cabinet posts, simply exposed them for what they really are - repackaged Tories.
The LibDems have never recovered from that and the very latest opinion poll still shows them on less than half of the support they received twelve years ago. They will remain, as always, the party which basks in the glory of the occasional spectacular by-election victory, and very little else.
Their role as the party to vote for when you want to give the two main parties a bloody nose, but which cannot be trusted, is firmly established.
Labour 38% (-1)
Conservative 35% (+4)
Liberal Democrat 10% (-3)
Green 5% (-1)
Scottish National Party 5% (–)
Reform UK 4% (-1)
Plaid Cymru 0% (-1)
Other 2% (+1)
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-january-2022/
It must be quite reassuring for a government in midterm to see that the Opposition only has a 3% lead.
Specially after a series of
self-inflicted balls-ups.
Mind you they probably can't believe their luck at the total ineptitude of the Opposition. All Johnson has to worry about is his own backbenchers. And his foot of course. There is very little likelihood of effective opposition between now and the next general election.
Plus they know what whenever they need it they can get a significant bounce by getting rid of Johnson and installing Sunak instead. How bad will things have to get before Labour seem like a clearly better option?
There are many reasons Johnson wants to talk about Boosters… and one is that the vaccination programme is the only positive thing most people connect him with…
https://twitter.com/msmithsonpb/status/1478038801742192644?s=21
Johnson’s got his booster bounce… let’s wait and see what January has in store for us before getting too excited about a full on resurgence in public support for him and his government.
As a bonus, Starmer had to vocally and regularly support the government’s booster programme, not oppose it, as lives were at stake.
It must be quite reassuring for a government in midterm to see that the Opposition only has a 3% lead.
Labour United about to get another smackdown because they had the belief they were ahead in the polls due to their own nebulous strategy.
Here's a tip - stop voting with the government on lame covid restrictions which were clearly the ramblings of a drunk playing the pandemic boardgame.
In fact stop supporting the government.
Then you might look like an actual alternative.
3% lead but if you can't see the difference between the two then maybe that one with the funny trousers or that one who likes to powder puff their nose. When there's no clear choice the figures become random, you watch.
Finland is proposing a four working day week and a six hour day. This twot would oppose it,
With no overwhelming support for any Labour politician, it found Mr Corbyn and Ms Cooper tied as the top choice as the best person to succeed Sir Keir on eight percent each.
Surely at no time in its entire history has the Labour Party been so devoid of inspirational people.
It must be like Christmas Day every day for the Tories. They have nothing to fear but themselves.
grum
Full MemberPlus they know what whenever they need it they can get a significant bounce by getting rid of Johnson and installing Sunak instead.
Yup, exactly this. As much as it warms me to see better polling for Labour at last, the cult of personality that got Johnston in, also means that when they dump him he'll take a lot of the shit with him. The polling's not that great and they're not- as far as I can see- doing anything much that sticks to the party rather than the leader.
(this does seem like one of those things where Labour just have a harder time of it... The tories seem to be able to constantly just shed a loser and forget a bad couple of years, and people's memories just default to the broad and pretty much fantasy-based stuff like "They're good on the economy" and "they're more competent" and of course "patriotism". Whereas Labour seem to get done over both for the leader and for the default party race memory, so somehow they get "but Corbyn" "but Brown" "But Miliband" "but Blair" "But Kinnock" "But Foot" all at the same time while old Tory leaders just vanish. And the basic Labour myth isn't as strong.
Another forgettable launch speech from Starmer with more terrible graphics.
Apparently he wants to make good of Brexit too ... "Make Brexit Work". Nearly an anagram of get brexit done 😉
(I'm pretty sure the best job possible of Brexit approach was suggested under Corbyn but the FBPE group wouldn't entertain it.)
Poor lad is also self-isolating again.
It must be like Christmas Day every day for the Tories. They have nothing to fear but themselves.
Which has been the case for the last 40+ years. The tories only lose when they REALLY **** it up
Another forgettable launch speech from Starmer with more terrible graphics.
Watched it last night with my lad - instantly forgettable, totally uninspiring.
He pointed out that the next general election will be the first time he votes, and he doesn't know what he'd be voting for with Starmer, so how can he vote for him?
he doesn’t know what he’d be voting for with Starmer, so how can he vote for him?
I didn't watch it but didn't Starmer make a new pledge?
https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2022/01/starmer-pledges-new-and-durable-deal-on-constitution/
Here's 10 more pledges Starmer has made, according to his website :
https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/
With all these pledges how can anyone not know what they will be voting for if they back Starmer?
I saw a lady being interviewed in the street by BBC News yesterday and she said that what she likes about Starmer is that he doesn't lie, apparently.
So here we have a man who makes solemn and binding pledges and doesn't lie, what more could British politics want?
Watched it last night with my lad – instantly forgettable, totally uninspiring.
He pointed out that the next general election will be the first time he votes, and he doesn’t know what he’d be voting for with Starmer, so how can he vote for him?
The obvious counterpoint is knowing what He'd be getting for a Tory vote, is that still preferable to a bit of uncertainty with Labour?
No political party comes with guarantees, only pledges, no leader is perfect and You'll never peer into their soul and determine the purity of their motives/intent.
The only real alternative is going full Brewster's Millions, spoil your paper and write 'None of the Above' and then settle in for another 5 years of Tory rule...
The obvious counterpoint is knowing what He’d be getting for a Tory vote, is that still preferable to a bit of uncertainty with Labour?
I'm pretty sure he's in the "anything but Tory" camp but he would like to be making a proactive and positive choice.
The noises coming from Starmer (and Brown) as regards a new constitution for the UK nations sound like they are heading in the right direction. Devolution isn’t properly protected from a UK government that takes against it. Thanks for the link Ernie (although it says little new, it is an area that Starmer needs to take seriously, and not hide from).
As for another reposting of Starmers bait and switch (tell members one thing, but don’t stick to it years later… after the mess of Brexit and the Pandemic)… you are right not to trust him when it comes to keeping to either 2019 policies or his pledges made to win the leadership contest. He will go to the polls on a platform far from either of those. Well he will if Labour don’t get wise and replace him before then… but that’s looking increasingly unlikely, isn’t it.
Where Starmer is keeping policies from before the last election… it doesn’t seem to win him many friends from those that you would think would want him to keep them…
https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellmp/status/1478406177226739719?s=21
no leader is perfect
I hear that a lot to justify Johnson. It's good to hear that it can be used as a generic defence for any politician depending on your personal preferences.
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1479477059940458499?t=2CJniwl4T9yM65W0R5xX-Q&s=19
Of course you would.
From richest party in the uk to near bankruptcy in two years. Nice one Keir.
https://evolvepolitics.com/the-labour-party-is-on-the-verge-of-bankruptcy/
They need a general election. That's when people get involved in helping better fund the party.
They need a general election. That’s when people get involved in helping better fund the party.
It depends whether you want normal members who would generally pay up anyway or you are wanting big sponsors who will be wanting a quid pro quo after you get elected.
The big sponsors would like a bankrupted party, it gives them even more leverage. Mass membership is not Sir's thing anyway, more spying and expelling.
"Normal members" are absolutely key, do a lot of fundraising, and donating directly, themselves. They don't only contribute via their fees. But ultimately, Labour funds are boosted in general election years, when party politics is more to the front of everyone's priorities, "normal members" or not. Expecting as much engagement (and funds) at this point of the election cycle as when an election is imminent just isn't realistic.
Interesting that Starmer's approval ratings are tanking along with Johnson's. His lack of opposition and tacit support for the tories coming back to bite him? Also interesting seeing Rayner stand in for him whilst he's been isolating. This morning on Sky news she unequivocally said Johnson is a liar and should resign. I hope we see the same clarity and opposition from Starmer at PMQs.
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1480994354433044488?s=20
This morning on Sky news she unequivocally said Johnson is a liar and should resign. I hope we see the same clarity and opposition from Starmer at PMQs.
I was hoping that he still had Covid. Rayner would've brought some passion to proceedings, in stark contrast to the bloodless Starmer.
Rayner and Miliband have been doing a great job in the media so far this year... more of them please. The Labour front bench need to look like a team ready to take over. This is doubly true with such a non-entity of a leader. Nandy has been doing a good job in parliament as well. Lammy has been less visible in his new role than I expected, but perhaps a focus on domestic issues is the right approach for Labour right now.
Lammy has been less visible in his new role than I expected
He's been a bit busy fighting Starmer/Mandelson's factional war against anyone who calls themselves left wing.
OK Dazh. If you say so.
I was hoping that he still had Covid. Rayner would’ve brought some passion to proceedings, in stark contrast to the bloodless Starmer.
@Ransos - Theres not many times me and you agree on anything, but I was hoping exactly the same.
Boris clearly absolutely hates having to face Angela Rayner. She's everything he can't cope with... working class and female.
With Starmer he juts bats away any questions, ignores what he asked and then rambles on about vaccinations, whereas Rayner seems to completely scramble his radar. She looks like she knows this full well and is enjoying every second of his obvious discomfort
Starmer needs to call for his resignatioon. Nothing else will do now. I'm not holding my breath.
Wow. He's finally found a backbone.