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Can you explain why you seem to be opposed to the £15 an hour then?
Can you point out where I said I’m opposed?
I asked a perfectly reasonable question:
What effect do you think that would have on inflation?
Any thoughts?
In answer to your question, I think it’s absolutely insane that the taxpayer is effectively subsidising profitable companies who won’t pay their employees enough to live on
Even if the £15 an hour is credible, how do you suppose Labour sell it as fiscally responsible given the right wing press will obliterate it. Brexit shows people will happily vote against their interests.
But it’s the same tactics, resign with the aim of embarrassing the leader. Sadly the public then get that as the lead news item when Labour has one of its rare moments with the full attention of the media. The voters see the tactic at play and Labour again miss a chance to win them over.
I'm not even sure it will register with most people, if it did a corbyn loyalist that no one has heard of quitting, isnt a necessaryily a bad thing for Starmers election chances..
Internally it maybe trouble for Labour and that won't help when they need canvasses etc
Squabbling over internal party matters whilst the goal lays wide open and untended about six yards away.
No. One. Gives. A. Shit.
All Labour have to do is look halfway sensible and united right now.
Even if the £15 an hour is credible, how do you suppose Labour sell it as fiscally responsible given the right wing press will obliterate it.
This is labours problem
They are seen as fiscally useless even tho the Tories have racked up waaay more debt and austerity was a woeful disaster
Labour don't have the confidence to trumpet what they achieved in power.
Personally I'd love to see £15 an hour min wage, but really would want to see some numbers on what it would do to businesses & inflation
This is more dissapointinh tbh
Unions scuppering PR even tho members backed it
https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1442545944835264512?s=19
I’m not even sure it will register with most people, if it did a corbyn loyalist that no one has heard of quitting, isnt a necessaryily a bad thing for Starmers election chances..
Len McClusky (FFS - are you still here?) was on channel 4 news being all Len McClusky about it
I’m not sure a visibly indignant Len McClusky is a bad look for Starmer at all, electorally
Gah PR! FFS this is a must for Labour.
It’s absolutely insane! Surely everyone other than the Tories, who are busy gerrymandering electoral boundaries, should be in favour of PR?
It’s a no-brainer!
I despair
Majority of the labour-affiliated unions are now headed by right-wingers - just saying...
Which unions is that then grum? Not that many allow their leader a free rein on these votes anyway. The truth is PR would, in the long term, weaken the Labour Party as a block by increasing real choice at the ballot box. Members want it because it should lead to better representation, not only in parliament, and at local government, but also in the party.
GMB and Unison I believe.
Starmer's response to Andy Mcdonald's resignation might sum up his leadership more perfectly than anything else.
"Labour's comprehensive New Deal for Working People shows the scale of our ambition"
Frinstance, the ambition of a £10 minimum wage. The minimum wage today being £8.91, and the average increase being 34p a year, by the next election we're on track for that to have risen to £9.93. The sheer SCALE OF THAT 7P AMBITION. Bask in it.
poah
Free MemberThe idea of £15 and hour is laughable.it would sky rocket costs.
Said literally every critic of every minimum wage ever, just replace the amount with whatever's been proposed. It's exactly what Philip Hammond said in 99. It's exactly what they say in every US state that only has the federal minimum wage, even though there are US state minimum wages that are over twice as much.
GMB and Unison I believe.
GMB is led by yet another in a long line of dinosaurs, which is what the members seem to want. Labour is constantly driving with the handbrake on while they have a strong voice. Unison is led by an ex-communist, not sure if she counts as “the right”, she’s arguably pretty central in terms of the Labour Party now, but she doesn’t dictate policy anyway.
The unions getting a block vote needs to end. Give all opted in union members their own direct vote. That would probably mean the end to at conference voting by delegates, but that is looking less and less democratic as the decades move forward and the party does not.
Unison is led by an ex-communist, not sure if she counts as “the right”
There are several ex communists working for the Tory party now. Not sure it's really that relevant.
GMB is led by yet another in a long line of dinosaurs, which is what the members seem to want.
Nobody has a clue in a union about the leadership, turnout for leadership ballots is very low. Members who attend a branch meeting even lower. It's a broken kleptocracy at the top.
My statement was nothing to do with Starmer. As Grum kindly shows Corbyn lost 2 elections in a row.
No it doesn't, not without further context that isn't present.
It’s funny how people see what they want to isn’t it. It also shows that he did considerably better in 2017 than a lot of ‘centrists’ ever did.
Does it? Look at it again. He did better than Miliband and that's it. Don't let the fact he gained seats cloud your judgement.
I'll explain my working:
Those stats start with a high of 418/659 seats following the 1997 general election.
2001 that fell to 412/659
2005 that fell to 355/646
2010 that fell to 258/650
2015 that fell to 232/650
2017 that rose to 262/650
2019 that fell to 202/650
All these stats show is that regardless of leader, overall labour has been losing voters over 22 years. 2017 was a blip that still fell well short of the required majority of 326.
It’s a broken kleptocracy at the top.
Sounds ideal, then. Make a few casual racist/sexist remarks and stick a Union Jack on it. Should be in government by half twelve.
Is this Labour party conference really happening? They have the widest open goal since John Major was in power and they seem to have decided it's more fun to kick the ball in the opposite direction.
I fantasize that it's some strategy of neutralising the 'right wing press' by atrophying their journalists brains through lack use but can only conclude they just like arguing and don't want to change anything.
I've hated the way Diane Abbot has been treated in the past but her interview on R4 this morning showed she is away with the fairies. I hadn't realised that fantasy revisionism was back in fashion
I'd love everyone to get at least the basic living wage for London but no one seems to understand that the basic living wage in London is pretty good living in other parts of the country (I'm not speaking from an ivory tower worrying how I am going to pay the cleaner). Around here the existing minimum wage seems to be pretty widely circumvented using apprenticeships & training schemes (you wouldn't believe some of the jobs claiming to need to give two years training that mysteriously disappear at the end of the scheme only to be replaced with a new trainee 'yard broom technician').
All these stats show is that regardless of leader, overall labour has been losing voters over 22 years.
Well ok but then it also shows that making out Corbyn and his wacky left wing ideas are pretty much the only reason for all of Labour's problems (which is something we hear a lot) is a load of nonsense.
no one seems to understand that the basic living wage in London is pretty good living in other parts of the country
Is it? I was earning £12 an hour about 10 years ago working full time and I don't remember being especially well-off.
Do you think making the minimum salary for a full time job a smidge under 30 grand a year might have any effect on inflation?
No.
The idea is to both limit what someone can earn at the top end through taxation and redistribute the money at the lower end through higher wages.
I repeat once again inflation is generally a product of supply side shocks.
We've been locked in low inflation for years. Don't confuse the smash and grab issues of the pandemic / Brexit with a general trend in inflation.
Inflation can be controlled with taxation.
This is labours problem
They are seen as fiscally useless even tho the Tories have racked up waaay more debt and austerity was a woeful disaster
It's not debt. It's the net accumulation of money spent into the economy.
Besides the government did more or less the same in Q/E during the pandemic. Meaning no 'debt' - as the bonds were purchased back.
It's farcical.
Hmmmm.
The elephant in the room being automation. If you make some jobs 'too expensive' then companies will be spurred to automate them out of existence. Or just take their bat and ball and play somewhere else. Or just play with them in their back garden.
Unison is led by an ex-communist, not sure if she counts as “the right”,
She was the continuity candidate and is likely to continue the conservative approach of her predecessor.
I asked a perfectly reasonable question:
What effect do you think that would have on inflation?
Any thoughts?
Inflation can be controlled through taxation.
General long-term trend is downwards.
You tell me what the outcome is that can't be controlled?
Also transitory inflation like we have now is not likely to follow long-term trends.
The only people getting excited about inflation are the excited right-wing news sources as it erodes the value of their friends' assets.
Providing the country can keep up with demand of goods and services inflation isn't the problem it's made out to be.
(At the moment that is an issue.)
Is it?
Locally I've seen jobs requiring an MA qualification advertised at just over £12/hr. They have just appointed someone so on that basis I would say yes. Ok it's one job in one sector but the person who told me this was moaning about how many applicants they had had to wade through
A low wage economy serves the top earners/asset holders.
Anyone remotely progressive would see this as the number one problem.
The elephant in the room being automation. If you make some jobs ‘too expensive’ then companies will be spurred to automate them out of existence.
The real elephant in the room is the supposed need for constant economic growth which is making the planet increasingly uninhabitable for humans.
Automation is going to happen anyway, we need an actual plan to deal with it - some sort of UBI I would assume will be part of it.
But I'm sure Keir Starmer's radical programme is fully ready to deal with these kinds of issues, and is definitely not just designed to try and win the 1997 election again but this time with the least charismatic leader possible.
Locally I’ve seen jobs requiring an MA qualification advertised at just over £12/hr. They have just appointed someone so on that basis I would say yes. Ok it’s one job in one sector but the person who told me this was moaning about how many applicants they had had to wade through
That just shows there's a lack of decent jobs for graduates. You have a very strange take on it IMO.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1442746300714336256?s=19
Got to laugh at the liberal Dunts of the world.
Why are they surprised?
I'm sure he said a functioning opposition was coming ...
£15 an hour would increase demand which in turn would help absorb costs. Lower paid workers have a lower marginal rate to import. Someone needs to make the machines for automation. Investment in the UK has been comparatively low due to the availability of cheap labour. High wage economies have a higher level of investment and a higher standard of living eg Norway. Surprising how many magic money tree and austerity-type arguments people have swallowed.
A low wage economy serves the top earners/asset holders.
Anyone remotely progressive would see this as the number one problem.
Wouldn’t remotely disagree with that but a one size fits all solution doesn’t work. A better solution would be a wholesale simplification of the tax system to ensure that above a safety net threshold everyone pays the same proportion of tax on income no matter how earned removing all the ‘family trust’ and similar dodges which allow people to claim they are ‘humble tenants’ who just happen to have sole benefit of the charity or trust.
When everyone is paying the same proportion of tax and getting the same pension benefits we would stand a chance of making fair comparisons
Someone sent me the terms and conditions for a local public school which offered discounts/bursaries to people on low wages. They had a clause which basically said if your circumstances don’t match your declared income don’t be surprised when we turn you down. It didn’t seem like a bad principle to work from
Properly rubbish from all sides of Labour at the minute though. National crisis, the Army on stand-by, the RW press are against Johnson and his mob, where's the opposition? Nowhere.
Starmer, as far as I can tell hasn't said **** all, and hasn't got a plan other than to stand there looking like he's lost his keys, Corbyn's army seem content to fight the same battles over and over and over again until the heat death of the sun, ignoring everything that's happening around them. What's the point of Labour if it can't even get it's act together when an opportunity like this is handed to them on a plate.
****ers (onanists)
euuurgh, Ian Dunt saying same thing as me...yuck
Jeez, the sight of of supposed lefties on here complaining that a £15 an hour minimum wage will make their shopping more expensive. Especially as it's economically illiterate as rone has explained. How many other tory economic myths have you swallowed? National credit cards, fixing the roof when the sun is shining, trickle down economics, bankrupting the country, wealth 'creators'?
Starmer, as far as I can tell hasn’t said **** all
The main announcement of the conference was from his chancellor that we would need to show 'fiscal restraint' and make 'hard choices'. In other words labour are now officially pro-austerity, even though they won the argument on that years ago and many tories, including the present and previous PMs don't agree with it. It's a shambles, just a rehashing of 25 year old new labour slogans without any consideration of the modern context.
I think you have to give Starmer a chance to do his speech before judging his conference. Maybe it will be an absolute barn stormer. I heard a snippet of him arguing for the leadership rule changes and he sounded OK! (NB I'm against the rule changes)
the sight of of supposed lefties on here complaining that a £15 an hour minimum wage will make their shopping more expensive
I certainly wasn't complaining. My major concern with it is that the electorate will not swallow it as an affordable or possible idea. The plan will certainly not wash with the RW media. If Labour go down this route it will be used as a stick to beat them with. How do you suppose Labour get around that issue?
The plan will certainly not wash with the RW media. If Labour go down this route it will be used as a stick to beat them with. How do you suppose Labour get around that issue?
So if labour should only have policies which please the RW media what's the point in them? They get around that issue by having the balls to argue for an alternative, standing by their principles and persuading people that they will be better off under labour. If they can't be arsed to do that then they don't deserve to be in government.
My major concern with it is that the electorate will not swallow it as an affordable or possible idea.
What will actually happen, is that those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo will use their considerable power and influence over the media to disseminate all kinds of bullshit about how bad such an idea will be for the nation, whilst throwing in all sorts of red herrings about 'immigrants' benefitting more than Hardworking British People™ from it, and lo; the General Public will lap it up and oppose it without realising it's in most of our best interests. See; Brexit.
That is not what I said at all. They had the balls to argue for an alternative under Corbyn twice and it failed. How do you get the message out that £15 an hour is credible without getting slated? Look what happened when they talked about free broadband.
I am not arguing they shouldn't do it I am asking how they get people on side that it is a good idea? The alternative is more Tory rule.
How do you get the message out that £15 an hour is credible without getting slated?
By controlling the media. Or at least having some of it on your side.
What will actually happen, is that those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo will use their considerable power and influence
I'm already bored of hearing from folks who earn considerably more than £15/hour telling anyone who'll listen why this cannot possibly work.
That is not what I said at all.
You'll get used to that.
Avoiding publishing the next manifesto alternative budget is going to get harder and harder for Labour, but they have to stick to it. Proposing a £15 minimum wage by the end of the first term of a Labour government would a reassuring thing to see in that manifesto, when the time is right. Any suggestion that Labour are calling for an immediate 50%+ rise in the minimum wage right now would be shouting from the roof tops that Labour are way to the left of the electorate. Now, that's exactly what some want to see happening now, and others are doing their best to avoid. It's just a very neat and simple example to have that battle about. Which is why it's happening. Meanwhile, that battle is letting the Government, that looked like it might be about to hang on to the ropes to avoid hitting the matt, retire to the changing room to clean up, cover up its wounds, and get ready to come out battling against an obviously divided Labour party that has wasted time putting itself on the back foot. Again.
By controlling the media. Or at least having some of it on your side.
And how do you go about doing that?
What will actually happen, is that those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo will use their considerable power and influence over the media to disseminate all kinds of bullshit about how bad such an idea will be for the nation, whilst throwing in all sorts of red herrings about ‘immigrants’ benefitting more than Hardworking British People™ from it, and lo; the General Public will lap it up and oppose it without realising it’s in most of our best interests. See; Brexit.
Exactly this.
Keep pointing out that the Tories deficit etc record is actually worse than Labour's. Keep pointing out that the terrible hard brexit deal is making everything massively worse. Keep pointing out that our current system subsidises companies like Amazon and Walmart. Be bold.
That would be a start.
Use some of the reserves built up under Corbyn to pay for borderline shady targeted social media campaigns. Oh no wait...
Hanging on waiting for the Tories to **** up even worse than they have is desperate stuff.
£15- It's too much too soon for the electorate.
Why not £12 or £12.50?
What about the shite minimum wage for younger people?
£6.56 for 18-20!
And how do you go about doing that?
You tell me. Seeing as how most of our national media channels are owned and controlled by extremely wealthy establishment figures, it's a pretty difficult task. The General Public get told how to think, and they mostly slavishly follow their orders. It's about breaking that cycle of subservience. You have to change the narrative, feed the media some red herrings, lead them down a path where they can expose themselves as partisan, let the public see that, help enable more critical thinking of the media and how information is disseminated, and why. Start getting people to think for themselves. One way is through grassroots campaigning on the ground; get people together to share ideas, free of any media dictation. The 2017 campaign worked well on this score; many younger people used SM channels to communicate and share ideas, rather than relying on the mainstream media to do so. Hence why the tories then went and spent shitloads of public money on disruptive and deceitful SM campaigns. It's not an easy task, but the narrative must be changed. Time to start breaking the 'rules'. Starmer, alas, isn't a rule breaker. The **** can't even engage with his own party members effectively ffs, so what chance does he have of engaging the wider electorate?
They had the balls to argue for an alternative under Corbyn twice and it failed.
In 2017 they significantly increased their vote share and number of MPs. They failed to get over the line because of internal factional fighting from the right wing who did everything they could to prevent a labour victory. Labour did fail, but not because they were saying the wrong things or because they had the wrong policies, or because they weren't friendly enough to the RW media.
They failed to get over the line because of internal factional fighting from the right wing who did everything they could to prevent a labour victory.
Is that what the voters said and believe or is that what the Corbyn supporters insist?
What about the shite minimum wage for younger people?
And what about those who can only work reduced hours, or not at all?
Is that what the voters said and believe or is that what the Corbyn supporters insist?
It's actually what happened. Plenty of evidence for that, if you care enough to want to learn.
What about the shite minimum wage for younger people?
£6.56 for 18-20!
Try being 17. My son is at college to learn a trade. We can support him but only to a certain extent so he has got off his x-boxing arse to go out and get real-life work experience and to earn money to support himself. Gets paid less than £5 an hour just because of his age. That type of practice should be illegal. Its unfair to the folks that bother themselves to earn. He does the same job, on the same hours, at less than half the wage of a colleague who is 5 years older.
feed the media some red herrings, lead them down a path where they can expose themselves as partisan, let the public see that,
It's a crazy scheme! Maybe just crazy enough to work...*
*Nah.
It’s actually what happened.
What happened in 2017 is the post coalition lib vote collapsed, going to Tory (whose vote share went up 6%) as well as to Labour, who were 64 seats short of a majority. This loss is painted as a victory for Corbyn by his supporters. Good fun for them maybe, but not helpful.
It’s actually what happened. Plenty of evidence for that, if you care enough to want to learn.
There might have been divisions within the Labour Party but Brexit seems to be the issue that decided the 2017 election. Labour benefitted from the anti-hard brexit vote, especially amongst the young.
It’s a crazy scheme! Maybe just crazy enough to work…*
*Nah.
Why not? Bring a few self-celebritised 'journalists' down to size. Feed them the bullshit, but feed your own 'trusted' journos the real stuff, then they end up looking stupid when their story is different to everyone else's. I'd love to see the likes of Keunssberg, Marr etc destroyed. Propagandists for the establishment; they give proper journalism a bad name.
What happened in 2017 is the post coalition lib vote collapsed, going to Tory (whose vote share went up 6%) as well as to Labour, who were 64 seats short of a majority. This loss is painted as a victory for Corbyn by his supporters. Good fun for them maybe, but not helpful.
Yet had Labour presented as a united force, perhaps enough people may have voted for them, believing them to be united, things may have turned out differently. The undermining by the right of the party was designed purely to work against Corbyn. And who was in charge of the Labour's Brexit strategy? Oh...
Penny starting to drop now?
Laura The Liar's latest propaganda piece:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58713106
"Many of Sir Keir's supporters were spotted in the crush of conference jubilant last night - delighted that they had managed to get changes to the rules through, increasing their control of the party.
But Monday's events show that control is not yet complete. The left won't go quietly.
The plans the party wants you to see may be hard to hear above the noise."
The Left is still here, Laira. And we're not going away. Soz about that.
By controlling the media. Or at least having some of it on your side.
Maybe ask Blair how it is done, he did it in 97...
Maybe ask Blair how it is done, he did it in 97…
By getting into Bed with a foreign media magnate. The very same media magnate who supported Donald Trump via his Fox News channel. So; someone who helps facilitate far-right wing ideology and power. Do you propose that Starmer does the same?
And who was in charge of the Labour’s Brexit strategy? Oh…
you mean, to tickle a trope, who was the shadowy figure pulling Corbyn's strings?
Penny starting to drop now?
evidently it hasn't
you mean, to tickle a trope, who was the shadowy figure pulling Corbyn’s strings?
Lol! And still, the idiocy continues!
Well, you tell me. What do YOU think?
evidently it hasn’t
Well, you can lead a horse to water...
Fazzini 100% agree. It's a shocker. Labour under Corbyn got lots of young people engaged. Keir could do the same with a policy on the minimum wage for young people. Jesus it's so blatantly unfair!
Starmer clearly doesn't care about young people though. The way he blatantly ignored that young woman, was disgusting. That video's gone viral; loads of young people we know are sharing it. That's another big chunk of voters lost then. Way to go, Kier! It's almost like he doesn't want ANYONE voting for Labour...
The Left is still here, Laira. And we’re not going away. Soz about that.
IIRC you aren't a member, Binners is, don't think he's going away either
Propagandists for the establishment
The BBC is part of the establishment however you define it.
IIRC you aren’t a member
I'm still a Leftie, and a potential Labour voter. And WTF has this to do with Binners? Are you his spokesperson, or just a sycophant?
Raising the minimum wage was not one of the 10 pledges Sir Keir made when running for the Labour leadership last year.
But he supported a campaign in 2019 for fast food chain McDonald's to improve pay and conditions.
At the time, he said: "They're not asking for the Earth. They're asking for the basics - £15 an hour, the right to know their hours in advance and to have trade union recognition. That ought to be the norm in 21st Century Britain."
My bold. What's changed Keir? Mandelson told you you weren't allowed to sound like a commie?
I’m still a Leftie,
But not a member of labour
and a potential Labour voter.
So not voting for them at the moment then
And WTF has this to do with Binners? Are you his spokesperson, or just a sycophant?
He's one of the few labour party members on this thread, helps his CLP, tries to get labour politicians elected
It’s almost like he doesn’t want ANYONE voting for Labour…
One of my work colleagues who is an unashamed white supremacist reactionary brexit voting UKIP type told me this morning that he would be prepared to vote for Starmer if 'he can sort out his party', so he seems to be quite good attracting those sorts of people. 😳
that he would be prepared to vote for Starmer
Still counts when it's a competition to see who gets the most votes.
But not a member of labour
And? Do you have to be a member of Labour to be a Leftie?
So not voting for them at the moment then
Not until they more closely resemble a party that represents working people, and is committed to helping create a better society. Because currently, they aren't.
He’s one of the few labour party members on this thread
Yet you could just as easily have mentioned any of the several other party members.
helps his CLP, tries to get labour politicians elected
I'm sure he's flattered by the crush you clearly have on him, but how do you know I, or any others, haven't done exactly the same?
Not until they more closely resemble a party that represents working people, and is committed to helping create a better society. Because currently, they aren’t.
For a lot of people who live in a Tory/Labour swing seat not voting labour will result in more Tory. Would it not be better to hold your nose and vote Labour rather than get the Tories again?
If you live in a solid seat for either party I can understand this stance.
Someone on UKC summed it up nicely...
The UK electorate is about 38 million people
The Labour party membership is about 500,000 people
The Labour "left" say the Labour "right" isn't 'left' enough
The Labour "right" say the Labour "left" isn't electable
The Labour membership is in the grip of powerful vested interests - the unions refuse to compromise, Momentum seems to refuse to compromise
The 37.5 million non-Labour members watch on in disbelief at how myopic the 'opposition' has become, and how they only ever seem to focus on their internal differences - they 'oppose' themselves.
I don't care whether Labour policy stands for £10 or £15. I don't care because at this rate they're never going to be in government. I would prefer that they focused on this ridiculous, corrupt shambles that currently occupies the Government benches and actually, with one voice, provided some opposition. When that happens, they can then get together and compromise on £12.50 and may one day find themselves in with a shot of persuading a majority to vote for them.
And, breathe
T&T
That sums up exactly how I feel, it is a joke, and neither side is helping.
Similar sentiments expressed by Marina Hyde
https://twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/1442832471138177025?s=20
Ah, Marina Hyde. Uses a lot of words; doesn't really say very much.
Hyde is the daughter of Sir Alastair Edgcumbe James Dudley-Williams, 2nd Baronet, and his wife, the former Diana Elizabeth Jane Duncan. Through her father, she is the granddaughter of aviation pioneer and Conservative politician Sir Rolf Dudley-Williams, 1st Baronet. She attended Downe House School, near Newbury in Berkshire, and read English at Christ Church, Oxford.
I can see how you like her, Binners.
Not forgetting Starmer and half the shadow cabinet alienating female supporters with their 'cervix' mumblings.
I know of many women that have worked hard for the party over the years, canvasing door to door that will not support the current stance on 'identity politics' nor vote Labour in an election.
It is a gift to the Tories.
Oh surely not the 'Marina Hyde is a champagne socialist' trope again. Marvellous.
One of my work colleagues who is an unashamed white supremacist reactionary brexit voting UKIP type told me this morning that he would be prepared to vote for Starmer if ‘he can sort out his party’, so he seems to be quite good attracting those sorts of people.
Cool story, Bro.
I imagine he was winding you up given your tendencies. 🙄
Oh surely not the ‘Marina Hyde is a champagne socialist’ trope again. Marvellous.
Where did anyone say she was a 'socialist'?
Not until they more closely resemble a party that represents working people, and is committed to helping create a better society. Because currently, they aren’t.
So are you voting at all? If you are who for?
Or do you just spoil the ballot paper by writing "f*** off Tory scum and your establishment stooges in the labour party!"
Or do you just stay at home/ go to some protest or other/ go to the pub / ride your bike
I know of many women that have worked hard for the party over the years, canvasing door to door that will not support the current stance on ‘identity politics’ nor vote Labour in an election.
It's the kryptonite of the left, the conservatives get away with it because they aren't expected to sign up to the simplified slogans that certain lobbies insist on.