[Closed] should i ditch windows 8 and install Linux?

I believe you can install a dualboot option allowing you to give Linux a try without burning your bridges to see how you find it.

If you download Windows 8.1 it gets a bit better* and you can pretty much ditch the [s]Metro[/s] interface and log in direct to the desktop. In April another update is due which should also improve usability somewhat. You can also use other, perhaps better, calendar tools - like Google.

Linux is good in many ways, but there is a learning curve and you may have to find new apps to replace ones that you use under Windows.

* A slightly less stinky and somewhat more polished turd

I've run linux for that before with no problem. It's getting easier to run as a day-to-day OS

installing Linux instead of Windows 8 is a faff for dual-boot if you have a system with UEFI instead of BIOS

I gave up and just live with the sucky interface and do everything through the desktop

You can build a "live CD" which self-contains Linux, so you can try it without making any permanent changes to your machine.

If your PC is Windows 8 'certified', you will have Secure Boot enabled. This isn't a problem per sé, but it's an extra consideration if you want to change the OS.

Have you tried upgrading to 8.1 first, and installing a desktop program like classic shell. That would save you having to go to linux. Windows 8 is pretty good under the bonnet, they just made a bit of a hash of the interface.

I haven't used windows for ~14 years, so take this how you will. I imagine that I'd be as lost as you if I was on a windows computer.

For the most part Linux is easy to use, but there will be frustrations with things that should be simple. Things aren't where you'd expect. Your hardware may or may not be supported fully. You will find out the difference between open and closed source software and also software patents (Mp3 playback, Flash, DVDs). You'll receive Docx/excel files that don't work properly. OOCalc decides it's going to format that date as a currency for no obvious reason etc.

If you are already using open/libre office, firefox or chrome (or chromium) things will be easier for you. In general, you will have an easier time if you think "What app do I need to edit a photo" instead of "How can I get Photoshop to work in Linux".

Email your best bets are either Evolution (like exchange, can connect to it and gmail too) or Thunderbird or webmail.

Music playing apps aren't as good as they used to be, but Banshee and Rhythmbox are okay.

Photo apps are a bit hit and miss (although, I don't really use them)

Your best bet is to grab a live cd, give it a go. You can install them side by side if you want and switch between them.

Fedora or Mint are decent choices to start with.

Linux is a bigger pain in the ass than Windows. Enjoy typing in a command line interface? You'll be doing a fair bit of that.

Stick with Windows. Version 8 is pretty crummy with a mouse/keyboard. 8.1 is better and it seems like next months 8.1.1 version will be even better - easy option to boot to desktop (which you can set up in earlier version of Win 8 but takes a registry edit).

Also, see the windows key on your keyboard? Pressing that automatically flicks between desktop and start screen. Pressing that and E brings up the file explorer.

The inbuilt search in Windows 8 is very good too. When on the start screen, jsut start typing the name of something (a programme or file).

Using keyboard shortcuts, Windows 8 is incredibly fast and easy to use

about 90% of that has gone right over my head.....

it was suggested to me by a couple of people that Linux is the answer, but i might just download Windows 8.1 and see how it goes. if the thing would just give me the desktop as a start screen i would be happy.

Then just install classic shell

http://www.classicshell.net/

alpin, I'd suggest sticking with windows. If you aren't ready for it, you will hit problems that will frustrate you much more than windows does.

It's a bit like if your suspension was knackered, and someone suggested a single speed rigid bike. It's fine for what it does, and some people are happy to use it as it's main bike. But it's not the same as getting the suspension fixed on your 160mm full sus.

On a win 8.1 PC here using classic shell mimicking win 7.
I did try and get on with win 8, but it just was too much of a compromise. Neither PC nor tablet and without a touchscreen its just no good.

NO

and also

NO

Linux is a remarkable thing, but as a desktop OS for normal people it's just not there, and I'm not sure it ever will be. It's like a home-made kit car. Brilliant in some ways - brilliant handling and fast, but you don't get air-con or electric seats unless you want to install them yourself, and if it goes wrong you're on your own.

I just spent til gone midnight last night trying to get my work computer back to a usable state after a graphics driver update went wrong and lunched the desktop.

I installed Ubuntu about 6 weeks ago, and it installed easily enough and it worked. But a few things were missing - most obviously, it didnt' switch to a power saving mode when I unplugged it. A bit of research, and I found that you can heavily customise what it does when you unplug it (or shut the lid, press a button etc) but you have to write shell scripts, which requires a kind of programming knowledge. Got that fixed, but the battery life is still rubbish. This laptop has a fancy 3D graphics card that sits unused when you're not using 3D graphics, to give better battery life. Except that doesn't work in Linux by default, so you have to install this software and some different drivers. Eventually I got this working, but Google Earth still crashes and I've no idea why. If you want to customise the equivalent of the start menu, you have to write some scripts. If you want to get an app to start up in 3D mode you have to write scripts. I paired my bluetooth mouse, but it needed re-pairing every time it turned off to save power. Guess how I did this? By writing scripts. Ok so half the time it's just a few commands, but still.

And half the time those few commands don't work. So you google for the problem, and you're relying on forums and other people helping you out. Frequently, you find info that refers to an old version of your distribution (sort of like versions of Linux, of which there are dozens and dozens) and it's different in the current one. Some stuff from different distributions works, some doesn't. Almost everything in the Linux world (at least in the OS itself - some companies make proper Linux versions of their apps) is developed by amateurs in their bedrooms, some of whom are well organised into teams, but some of whom are just a lone geek, and they can get bored at any time and give up developing the thing you really need. And then you're stuck.

It's a massive ballache, but the promise of having things exactly the way I want them is alluring. I've now learned enough for it to get its claws into my geek brain, so I'm persevering. I now have to re-set up my 3D card, and I'm trying to solve the problem when I'm using certain apps in full-screen they don't minimise properly.

If you think W8 is a faff, you've got no chance with Linux!

download virtualbox and give it a try, that way if you don't like it you can bin it.

Linux is good, however it can be fiddly to make things work, as you can do whatever you like but things aren't necessarily joined together than well.

NB: I've been paid to look after and develop Unix infrastructure since '96. So I've used it a fair bit.

Using it in virtualbox will let you try it out, but you are unlikely to learn much. It's only with actual daily usage (rather than a quick play) that you figure out if you can work with it, and you won't find out if it works with your hardware or not.

On the positive side, some of the desktop wallpaper that comes with Ubuntu is gorgeous. The OS itself isn't as pretty as I was expecting mind.

about 90% of that has gone right over my head....

With respect then, I'd concur with elwhatever up there. Leave it alone.

it was suggested to me by a couple of people that Linux is the answer

I don't doubt it. Whilst this may be perfectly true in many situations, unfortunately some people are afflicted with Linux Tourette's. "Please help, my fridge keeps defrosting" - INSTALL LINUX!!!1!

Linux is a fine operating system these days, but it is categorically not the one-size-fits-all magic bullet for any computer issue ever, contrary to what some people would have you believe.

One nice thing about Linux is, as I said, you can run it off a DVD or a USB key so you can readily try it commitment-free and make your own mind up without having to make any destructive changes to your existing system. But you'd be well served by treating with a pinch of scepticism any advice which offers a solution before it makes any effort to understand the problem.

Or buy windows 7 for 40 quid on ebay.

Almost everything in the Linux world (at least in the OS itself - some companies make proper Linux versions of their apps) is developed by amateurs in their bedrooms

apps... yeah some might be itch scratchers. put me in that bracket. and most ios/android app devs too. oh and pretty much all free download stuff for windows too.

trying to remember the last time I [u]needed[/u] to do anything on the command line in Ubuntu / Mint (desktop). quite a long time ago.
server yes... there's no GUI, and it's all configured remotely.
arch linux yes... it's a hardcore back to basics type of OS
ubuntu/mint... can entirely control that thru a mouse pointer and 2 buttons, unless you need to type in an editor or libreoffice.

as for the OP... I'd suggest Mint if you want to give it a go. basically it's Ubuntu with all the codecs and flash and stuff that you expect to be preinstalled.

maybe i should have added that i'm using a PC (old skool, but it is an all-in-one jobbie) that kinda doubles up as a TV.

I downloaded VirtualBox and the latest mint image and had it up and running in 20 mins, which was probably quicker than burning a DVD and trying a live dvd from boot. This way you can download multiple Linux images to try them all out

almost everything in the OS itself is written by paid employees fo Redhat, Canonical, Google, etc.

In the kernel? The average Windows user doesn't know the difference between the kernel, the X server, the window manager, the desktop manager, the compositing manager etc etc.

Seems to me like most of the stuff that's in Windows is a 3rd party app, like the bluetooth control panel, for instance, and a lot of those seem to be written by people in their bedrooms. But fair enough, I defer to your greater knowledge here.

that's how and why it has more than enough quality to be installed on a shed load of servers worldwide,

But that backs up my point - brilliant for SERVERS, shit for joe public on his home computer.

As for not needing these apps - without bumblebee I either have no 3D acceleration or my battery life is halved. For a home computer that's a significant problem that needs solving.

However I agree that Mint is nice - of the ones I've tried at least. But to the OP - don't. Not worth it!

Windows 8/8.1 is the first edition I've ever had that after 18 months I like rather than detest. Simply because it works. Even when I've been daft and clicked on the wrong things the recovery system has worked perfectly and saved the day. It's stable, has found drivers for everything I've ever plugged in, comes back to life after days sleeping and the interface has grown on me.

The only minor issue I've had was with the machine rather than Windows, I failed to get it to boot from an external drive with another operating system.

Depends what you're used to. Personally I find Win7 a complete PITA ballsache, and impossible to find anything when configuring. And software you have to surf all over the net to find rather than find it all in one nice convenient place.

In the kernel? The average Windows user doesn't know the difference between the kernel, the X server, the window manager, the desktop manager, the compositing manager etc etc.

For the amateur in his bedroom, you've gotta to go right down to the level of small user level apps to find any of those. And that'll be exactly the same for windows apps, and all the low scoring ios/android ones that you probably totally ignore when you go to the respective app store.

There was a kernel module I was depending on for the 3G card in my Vaio P series, that was being developed by some guy. Not sure if he was in his bedroom or not, but he did decide to give up a couple of years ago, leaving me out of luck.

And funnily enough, they'll often be the same apps and codebase you run on windows/osx.

Yeah, the fact that VMWare Workstation is available for Linux is the only reason I am still using it, cos I use a lot of VMs which were created on Windows and they still work. However it's a bit ropey on Ubuntu - it won't minimise properly from full screen - but this may be down to either compiz or the Intel video driver. Also as above, Google Earth refuses to run.

Lack of MS Office is also a ballache at work. Even in 6 weeks I've had a couple of spreadsheets that were totally messed up and unreadable in any of the Linux alternatives.

The other annoyance is the lack of ability to do system image backups whilst you are still working, like Windows can do.

molgrips - optimus is indeed utter shit. At a hardware level, it is a hack (some implementations are less shite than others). It works on windows because Nvidia make it work.

On other systems, bumblebee is about the best you are going to do for now. Nvidia did show some signs of working on optimus support on Linux, but there were licensing incompatibilities which would keep their changes from going into the kernel, so (last time I checked, about a year ago) they are just going to leave it. Nvidia also don't document there hardware publicly so you end up with horrible little hacks like bumblebee.

The laptop I had with optimus (a works laptop, not my choice) was such a pain that although I could get bumblebee to accelerate apps on the main screen, I could not get the HDMI port to work (it was hooked up only to the Nvidia chip, not the Intel one). Supposedly the DisplayPort would work on that model, but we had not compatible monitors.

So, although it is one of those Linux is shit things, it's not really Linuxes fault.

(bit of a tangent for the thread. When I saw you were writing shell scripts for things, I thought optimus straight away. Never again)

molgrips - optimus is indeed utter shit.

Not in Windows - works really well 🙂

Bumblebee did work, to be fair, and it's a good solution to a difficult problem, but it foobared itself last night.

Haven't tried getting HDMI output to work - most people online are trying to run three monitors - all I want to do is to be able to work a projector.

So, although it is one of those Linux is shit things, it's not really Linuxes fault

Well no, if you consider that Linux is an open source kernel. However it doesn't matter who's to blame, it's still a problem. The fault lies with manufacturers who don't consider Linux support when they make things but to be fair - why would they? It'd cost them a fortune to put the same resources into driver development for an extra OS.

Lack of MS Office is also a ballache at work. Even in 6 weeks I've had a couple of spreadsheets that were totally messed up and unreadable in any of the Linux alternatives.

Guy sitting next to me is using Ubuntu+Wine+MS Office, I last tried this about 3 years ago with less than stellar results but apparently it's moved on a bit since then and is fine now.

Hm that could be good - will check out Wine. Always seemed to be ropey as hell when other people tried it but like you say that was a while ago.

Linux has a LOOOOOOOOONG way to go before it's a "sensible" alternative to Windows / OSX for a desktop environment (for average Joe).

I think 2050 will be the "Year of Linux Desktop"

Linux has a LOOOOOOOOONG way to go before it's a "sensible" alternative to Windows / OSX for a desktop environment (for average Joe).

Not really, Chromebooks (AFAIK) and Android run linux, and the average Joe has no problem with those. (Edit: Android obviously not a desktop environment right now!)

Ubuntu's fine, too - I installed it on the main home PC and my wife and kids haven't had any problems at all. The setup was pretty painless, too - I do a fair amount on the command line but that's all me playing about doing development stuff, I don't remember having to do anything similar to get a basic home PC up and running.

Lack of MS Office is also a ballache at work. Even in 6 weeks I've had a couple of spreadsheets that were totally messed up and unreadable in any of the Linux alternatives.

Use Google docs instead, I've not had any issues although admittedly it's been nothing complex.

I'd still not recommend Linux for the casual user, stick to win8 for now.

Use Google docs instead

Yeah sadly I'm not the IT director of my whole company and all my clients' companies, so I don't really have the authority to mandate IT migration policies.

A Chromebook is not a practical replacement for a desktop PC (or laptop).

It's good for [i]SaaS[/i] (Google Docs, YouTube, etc), but not an office PC.

Try Linux first with a live CD. Over all its alright but its not for everyone. You need good googling skills to get on with Linux.

Ubuntu's fine, too - I installed it on the main home PC and my wife and kids haven't had any problems at all.

Yeah, it'd be a lot easier on a desktop. You're one of the lucky ones....

Not really, Chromebooks (AFAIK) and Android run linux

Yeah, not the same thing though. We're talking about normal user-installed distributions on a normal PC; Android and ChromeOS are custom-made for specific hardware by the manufacturer.

I've no problem with Linux as an OS, the problem is the maturity and support of the desktop environment for end users. Which is what most people will have trouble with.

If I were installing a server for some purpose, I'd not hesistate to use Linux.

i'm thinking this probably isn't for me. my GF just had to explain the difference between soft- and hardware.

my head hurts reading the majority of replies.... 🙁

My household is Windows free. The only time I have to use it is when I'm at work and it pisses me off no end. I'm running Ubuntu as my entertainment system and Xubuntu on my laptop since it's a bit faster.

When I started out with Ubuntu I had to spend a fair bit of time on ubuntuforums.org but that was about 6 years ago. The latest installations have been problem free.

The good thing about Linux is that if something isn't working then someone somewhere will have had the same problem as you and the solution will be documented. If you have a problem with windows then the solution might be there somewhere but you'll never find it because there are so many people telling you to turn the computer on and off three times.

The good thing about Linux is that if something isn't working then someone somewhere will have had the same problem as you and the solution will be documented.

Not always. In fact, often not, in my experience.

For example - certain apps (vmware workstation and remina RDP client) when full screened won't minimise properly. Can't find anything about this online, and no, it's not the same issues that come up when you try googling it.

And sometimes you get too many solutions. Someone says try this, someone says try that, and before you know it you've done four half-working things and your system's bolloxed.

I use Windows 8 and got it only because I knew about Classic Shell.

Guess I've just been lucky. It's always worked better than windows for me.

Linux is a bigger pain in the ass than Windows. Enjoy typing in a command line interface? You'll be doing a fair bit of that.

Used to be the case that you could feel personal pride at getting a linux system to run at all but not been the case that you will need to spend any time on command line for some years. Ubuntu and Mint are positively user friendly.

Currently running 1 Win7 setup, 2 dual boot Win7/Ubuntu setups, a Win RT tablet, a Linux Mint desktop and a Ubuntu laptop. Over and above the Windows OS, not running any software I have paid for on any of them, a legacy of discovering open source when I first used Linux some 10 years ago.

If you filter out some of the more extreme its brill, its crap offerings above then a lot of what is said is fair and good sense. Getting it running on a desktop is easier, but there are places to find if your laptop is supported ( my 8 year old Dell laptop is despite using an almost unique wireless card ). You can download or purchase for a few quid a live CD with every bit of software you will ever need on it and run it off the CD or a USB stick to see if it works for you. I have never regretted using it and I have saved a fortune over the years.

Most people don't actually pay for Windows anyway. I know that some people were selling laptops for less if you didn't take Windows with it - do they still?

OP what computer are you thinking about installing it on? That can make a massive difference.

IME (and I 'Linux' a lot of people's computers), those who don't give a crap about what operating system they use, and struggle with W8, are *ideally* suited to Linux. Moreso than those who just want everything to look like it used to.

My laptop took a lot of faffing (modern but generic Intel i7), but the last few I've done were a doddle.

If you actually pick out the OP's replies in this thread (away from the ones with the word 'kernel' or 'virtual machine' in them), Limux ain't for him.

OP - watch a couple of videos like this:

Disagree. Sounds like the GF can install it 🙂
OP will have no probs using Linux. A workmate has been happily using Mint for about 6 years, yet couldn't be trusted to use a calculator. I hadn't heard anything about it for ages until he brought it in for a reinstall a few weeks back. Zero issues..

And here I am again.. almost midnight.. struggling to install bumblebee... again..

BruceWee - Member
Guess I've just been lucky. It's always worked better than windows for me

But if you want to delve further than a bog standard desktop usage it can be a pain in the arse. I played about with all the recording stuff on it a few years ago, all the jack stuff, hydrogen, multi-track recording etc, and to get it working initially(don't ask me what I canny mind) but there was some cli jiggery pokery needing done that would make it a barrier to your average user.

So Molgrips problem is the entire reason Linux is crap?

Supporting the latest and greatest devices hasn't been it's strength but having used it over the last 10 years I'm still impressed. The GF uses it for about 6 years without less issues than windows causes. The only problem was due to the stupid ipod interface which prevents it playing like any other bit of technology.
The current version recognised everything on the laptop from the get go.
I run it as an alternative on my laptop so I can keep work stuff separate. There is a very decent market for preconfigured desktop and laptop's for consumer use. Some other company do a massively restricted hardware set to make their stuff work smoothly.
If all you want it for is a bit of home office, web browsing and media surfing then go for it. A quick guide is to google the model of your pc and Ubuntu and see what comes up, should tell you if it's painless or not.

So Molgrips problem is the entire reason Linux is crap?

Don't be stupid. I didn't even say it was crap, if you read carefully.

I'm saying that there are often issues with hardware compatibility, and IF you get these problems it could be difficult for a non-techie. And everyone else agrees with me.

Ubuntu 12.04 is proving less reliable than Windows 7 so far, on my Lenovo W520. Bluetooth just packed up, have to restart.

If all you want it for is a bit of home office, web browsing and media surfing then go for it.

Thing is, even speaking as a certified (RHCE6)Linux admin, I reckon I can get a Win8 / Win7 to do all that competently and reliably with a few tweaks here and there. And yet still have that mainstream backup should they venture out to more esoteric uses.

If it works for you, great, but I don't reckon Alpin is the right target.