[Closed] Should Gyms be banned in prison?

I think the gym's should remain. But i also reckon that once the prisoners have been released, they should be forced to use their huge strength for the benefit of society - by doing jobs many others cant.

For example, a london bus rickshaw driver - This would also reduce carbon emissions etc

Charles Bronson was(is) in solitary confinement for much of his sentence and devised a regime of exercises using his own weight (think push ups, sit ups, squats etc) and even wrote a book on how to do the same workout.
He's built like a brick privvy and it takes about 4 guards to control him

So how do you suggest they channel all that energy which isn't being expended in the same way as if they were free?

Its a good outlet for excess testosterone

Elfinsaftey: Chaingangs. Repairing our f**d up road network.

Infact, I think all inmates whould be forced onto a strict training regime, so that when they are released they can work hard and fast

I appreciate that's it's a good release for pent up energy, but, using the example above, if Manson can build strength without heavy weights, why can't they all? And is running, rowing, cycling not a good release for energy as well - all without creating monstrous men?

Having just read a story about the newly released killer of Damilol Taylor... in the Daily Mail?

What would you suggest? Locking them up and throwing away the key?

And the young boy was Damilola

Elfinsaftey: Chaingangs. Repairing our f**d up road network.

Hmm, you are aware that ensuring security would cost more than would be saved, not to mention depriving decent law-abiding citizens of paid work?

Plus we have laws regarding Slave Labour.

People in prison are no doubt going to have a fair amount more pent-up anger and aggression than people outside, as a rule. So better to let them release that energy through physical activity, surely?

My own experience of strenuous activity is that it helps release hormones and chemicals that make me feel calm and relaxed. And large muscular physically powerful men are often quite confident and don't feel as threatened as others. Therefore they might not feel the need to lash out as much.

You get nutters of all types. Damilola's killer was a scrawny teenage boy. Peter Sutcliffe wasn't a particularly big feller either. I've dealt with aggressive kids that are smaller than me, and I'm a small bloke. Actually, I'm pretty aggressive and have at times been pretty vicious and violent, and I'm not a big muscle bound hunk! Actually I'm physically bigger and more powerful than I was when I was younger, and less aggressive.

This is interesting if you like watching muscular prisoners push heavy weights....

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-3349130914020546418

Law abiding my arse, most of the road workers take turn camping at the bottom Lee quarry and turning the place in to a sh*t tip before they get served eviction notices to make way for the next group.

And the cost of security? There are your paying jobs for decent members of society.
You see problems, i see solutions!

And the cost of security? There are your paying jobs for decent members of society.
You see problems, I see solutions!

Would probably mean having to hire private security firms, then there's the problem of ensuring public safety, insurance, etc.

You see 'solutions', I see ill thought-out unworkable crack pot fantasies... 😉

Infact, I think all inmates whould be forced onto a strict training regime, so that when they are released they can work hard and fast

So they can steal your car & mug your nan even quicker? 😉

had a long chat last night with a colleague about prisons and prisoners. Despite visiting Prisons fairly regularly i've never seen an Xbox in a cell, despite what the daily mail say! Anyway, the thing with gyms...

If prisoners are incarcerated to punish them, then indeed, no gym, no TV, no nothing would be good punishment. However, given that the purpose of our prison service is reformation and rehabilitation, there is some benefit to such things. I'll paint a nice Liberal/wet left image...

man A gets in fight outside pub at 18, punches another man who falls, hitting his head and dies. Man A goes to prison for, say 2 years. 2 years later he is released, unemployable, confused and angry at the world. He has not developed as an adult and is still effectively 18. His friends have all moved on, and he has been left behind. He is not an effective member of society and cannot contribute effectively.

Man B commits the same crime and received the same sentence. In prison he studied, say wood work. He went to the gym a lot. He learnt about discipline and routine. Comes out of prison with a skill that increases his chance of getting employed and a greater understanding about looking after himself and self respect.

I appreciate this is a massively idealistic image, but the idea I'm putting across is, the more you punish prisoners, the more society is likely to suffer in the long term. Incarceration is the punishment part, forget the human rights mumbo jumbo, and consider the idea of developing useful, functioning adults.

Hang on meehaja, that sounds like an intelligent, well thought-out, rational argument.

We can't have that on here now can we?

Now go and stand in the corner and have a think about what you've done.

I think they should be banned, I've seen Oz, it's wall to wall murders in there.

Would probably mean having to hire[b] private security firms[/b], then there's the problem of ensuring public safety, insurance, etc

Even more gainful employment opportunities! Group 4 expands to fulfil the demand for guards, transportation and logistic arm is reformed or expands to get them from the cells to the project, insurance companies expand and diversify to provide public liability cover....

Non of your pitfalls are insurmountable

what job is it that employs big over muscled blokes with violent pasts?

private security firms

I've seen Oz, it's wall to wall murders in there.

Shankings a speciality.

Charles Bronson was(is) in solitary confinement for much of his sentence and devised a regime of exercises using his own weight (think push ups, sit ups, squats etc) and even wrote a book on how to do the same workout.

That's todays' impulse buy.

what job is it that employs big over muscled blokes with violent pasts?

private security firms

There ya go! A ready supply of workers if they show aptitude when they get out!
This is win win!

Even more gainful employment opportunities! Group 4 expands to fulfil the demand for guards, transportation and logistic arm is reformed or expands to get them from the cells to the project, insurance companies expand and diversify to provide public liability cover....

Non of your pitfalls are insurmountable

With business acumen like this, how on Earth is the UK in recession? 😀

Why thank you. Remember to put your X in the box marked U31 at the next election...

Jesus Wept.

Despite the OP's apparent mental image of prisons being a collection of muscle-bound, greased-up bodybuilding potential boyband members, the sad truth is that with 90% of prisoners suffering from a mental illness and 70% suffering from multiple mental illnesses, prisons house some of the sickest people in the UK population. The idea that chipping away at the meagre facilities for maintaing physical health is going to improve things is just rank stupidity a.k.a. standard fare for the Daily Mail.

http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/information/mental-health-overview/statistics/

Well maybe i should clarify then.

I did say "what's wrong with cardio equipment and space to do push ups etc" so maybe i'll refine it to 'Should prisons do away with heavy free weights etc'.

Exercise should be available for all but why do prisoners need to bulk up massively? I also mentioned running, rowing and cycling (static, obviously). I know many prisoners don't weightlift but i just don't think it should be an option for any of them at the taxpayers expense, especially if they are inside for violence related offences. I do push ups every day - to the best of my knowledge they cost nothing but still build strength?

Oh, and i don't buy (or read) the Daily Mail.........

So how do you suggest they channel all that energy which isn't being expended in the same way as if they were free?

deep fried food, like crisps and chips. Then they'd have a lot less energy that would need to be expended.
And they wouldn't be able to run away when the cops are chasing them when they revert to their criminal ways when they get out.
And the rest of us could laugh and point at them, knowing them as the unreformed chubby crims that they are.
And they'd die sooner anyway so be less of a drain on benefits/free up an extra bed in HM Hostels.

Vote for me.

Gyms should be banned full stop. Ghastly, soul-destroying places, a bit like prisons. Oh, hang on...

Bad people trying to improve and better themselves? good for them.

Jamie - Member

"Shankings a speciality."

Whatever turns you on...

Whatever turns you on...

That doesn't even make sense.

Would probably mean having to hire private security firms, then there's the problem of ensuring public safety, insurance, etc.

Surely it just needs a couple of shotgun toting, tabacco chewin' deputies on horseback?

90% of prisoners suffering from a mental illness

That seems unlikely - or at least using a very wide definition of mental illness. Were it really the case there'd be a lot more suicides than there really are, a lot more stabbings etc.

Cannae beat the bold Hutchy

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Mothers-grief-as-sons-killers.2417475.jp

went in like this

[img] [/img]

Now looks like this 😯

[img] [/img]

The yanks have it right. Get banged up three times and we do you. Boil them down for glue or burn them to make electric.

Yes, ban the gyms make them run to loose the energy and better yet feed them the bare minimum so they've got **** all energy to loose, make the tv's just show 24hr Teletubbies and the radios play nothing but Sarah Kennedy going on about her cats. Uniforms should be sandals, pink boiler suits and all inmates to have their heads shaven and all religion/politics banned and all cells to be unheated have nothing but a bed, blanket and a toilet.

They are their to be punished.

Weird server error led to double post; I only posted it the once.

Gyms should be banned full stop. Ghastly, soul-destroying places, a bit like prisons. Oh, hang on...

You sound somewhat bitter....

The closest I have ever come to being in prison is being in police custody for 36 hours. Seemed like much, much longer. What really discourages me from a life of crime, aside from the nastiness of it, is being banged up and unable to escape. I doubt hardly anyone on here actually understands this though, which is why I wont take some of the more 'conservative' opinions seriously. Be interested to hear from anyone who's actually done time though.

I know a few people who've been inside. Mostly really decent, ordinary individuals now. None have any particular desire to be re-incarcerated, and I'd imagine moderate their behaviour and activities accordingly. I suspect imprisonment acts as quite an effective deterrent to most.

and the radios play nothing but Sarah Kennedy going on about her cats

You want to create a whole new bunch of psycho serial killers?? 😯

[img] [/img]

mogrim - Member

90% of prisoners suffering from a mental illness

That seems unlikely - or at least using a very wide definition of mental illness. Were it really the case there'd be a lot more suicides than there really are, a lot more stabbings etc.

The suicide rate in prisons is almost 15 times higher than in the general population. In 2002 the rate was 143 per 100,0001 compared to 9 per 100,000 in the general population.2

1 The National Service Framework For Mental Health: Five

Years On, Department of Health (2004)

2 Samaritans (2004) Information Resource Pack (2004

Is 15 times higher enough for you?

Nice Post Konabunny..silly reply mogrim

Sorry didn't think through fully 😀

like your style meehaja.

Don't say that Kev, or else others will think they can post intelligent, well thought out rational posts on STW.

And then where would we be. Eh?

BTW YGM.

gyms dont make killers, its the people we need to deal with.

[jealous] why dont you e-mail me anymore?[/jealous]

nevermind..

Jujnkyard; I did, but your email kept 'bouncing'. I'll try it now.

Tulisa? I've just spent a couple of hours in Canary Wharf with WCA, and let me tell you, the babes????!!?1?

Actually the cute little East European lass that came to collect our glasses was more stunning than any of the office type ladies. Like a little package of loveliness wrapped up in a perfect form.

Just right for me really!

But she ran away... 🙁

new one in profile

but that tulisa from that N-dubz?........

[i]Charles Bronson was(is) in solitary confinement for much of his sentence and devised a regime of exercises using his own weight (think push ups, sit ups, squats etc) and even wrote a book on how to do the same workout.
He's built like a brick privvy and it takes about 4 guards to control him[/i]
Except for the time he was in HMP Durham (close supervision centre)& told the 4 screws he'd do them all in, so ONE of them went in his pad, closed the door behind him & painted the walls a lovely colour of Charlie Bronson Red. But you don't hear about those bits do you?
As for 90% of the prison population having mental health problems that means we currently have 630 (in the prison I work in) who have those problems?
No.
& in answer to the OP...
No.

mogrim - Member
90% of prisoners suffering from a mental illness

That seems unlikely - or at least using a very wide definition of mental illness. Were it really the case there'd be a lot more suicides than there really are, a lot more stabbings etc.

He also gave a link fo rhis claim which if you had followed also had this underneath the prevalence rates
The suicide rate in prisons is almost 15 times higher than in the general population. In 2002 the rate was 143 per 100,0001 compared to 9 per 100,000 in the general population.2
1 The National Service Framework For Mental Health: Five

Years On, Department of Health (2004)

2 Samaritans (2004) Information Resource Pack (2004
Is 15 times higher enough for you?

Nice Post Konabunny..silly reply mogrim

Not really, I stick by what I said. 15 times higher indicates higher rates of mental illness - but doesn't support the assertion that "90%" of prisoners are suffering from it.

(Checking out the original link it now says 70%, not sure what's happened there...)

Charles Bronson was(is) in solitary confinement for much of his sentence and devised a regime of exercises using his own weight (think push ups, sit ups, squats etc) and even wrote a book on how to do the same workout.

You can only do so much with press ups and the like. A press up is equivalent to benching 60-70% of your bodyweight. So to get beyond a certain strength, you need access to weights.

Dunno what % of prisoners actually use the 2 gyms at our place but only a very small %age are muscle clad 'giants'. I would say most go for the cardio side of things. A few do big weights, some do lots of reps, some go 3 or 4 times a week & you wouldn't know by looking at them. I go at least once a year to do my fatness test (or is it fitness test?)
Anyway, If a prisoner loses his gym sessions, which is usually by being a c0ck while in the gym one way or the other, he's soon as good as gold to get them back.
Back to the subject of mental health problems, I'll be speaking to our heads of psychology, & mental health tomorrow. I'll get back to you.
I personally wouldn't like to see the gym sessions abolished. It's bad enough when they can let off steam down there, there'd be ructions if they couldn't.

Except for the time he was in HMP Durham (close supervision centre)& told the 4 screws he'd do them all in, so ONE of them went in his pad, closed the door behind him & painted the walls a lovely colour of Charlie Bronson Red. But you don't hear about those bits do you?

Possibly because it would result in the arrest and dismissal of the officer for assault/violent conduct?

personally wouldn't like to see the gym sessions abolished. It's bad enough when they can let off steam down there, there'd be ructions if they couldn't.

Having spent just 36 hours banged up, I can't imagine how worked up I'd get if I was locked up for a long period of time. People I have spoken to who've been inside say that gym/exercise/sports privileges are something you do not give up lightly.

[i]Possibly because it would result in the arrest and dismissal of the officer for assault/violent conduct?[/i]

Would it? Why haven't you ever heard of a prison officer being dismissed for that type of behaviour then? I'm not saying it happens every day & I've only heard of 2 instances, the CB instance being one & another at our place a few years ago. I can only imagine what happened to the guy at Frankland recently who almost killed one officer & wounded two others in a totally unprovoked attack.
Plus, i don't reckon old Charlie was a grass.

No I'm saying if a prisoner getting battered in a custody became news, then I'd imagine the officer in question would be disciplined appropriately, and the situation investigated, and rightly so I'm sure you'd agree.

There have been two cases in the news this week of copper getting done for assaulting people in police custody, so such a thing would definitely make the news.

That such information would get out, is oanother thing.

Plus, i don't reckon old Charlie was a grass.

You, on the other hand, have just told everyone on an internet forum that he was allegedly battered in his cell....

I'd ban weights and any bulking up exercises. Cardio exercise is essential, but they don't need expensive gym equipment for this.

We lock up dangerous thugs to protect the public right?

It is therefore rather stupid to allow these volatile dangerous people to to equip themselves to become more able to impose their will on others through intimidation and violence!

The money saved on gym equipment could be channelled towards improving counselling and psycotherapy. However, if an offender doesn't want to change, they won't!

I think there are many offenders who could use a bit of assistance in learning how to deal with difficult situations without the need to become overbearing, or to lash out.

It's a crying shame the victims aren't the focus here!

I find this nonsense about prisoners needing a way of channelling their frustrations into bodybuilding kinda irriting! This point of view smacks of the "what about my human rights" complaining we're so used to hearing. The "hand it to me on a plate" culture that is devoid of a single shred of personal responsbility!

Most people work on learning calm self-control, so why are these prisoners a special case? They put themselves in prison and entirely at the great expense of the tax payer, so what right have they got to determine what benefits they get?

Personal responsiblity, self-respect, self-control and respect for others is what they need to gain from prison, not muscle mass!

[img] [/img]

Now I am very disappointed that he hasn't got vengance and death tats all over him and, his head is far too big for even his butched up body.

Bet he has far more self respect now though.

[i]You, on the other hand, have just told everyone on an internet forum that he was allegedly battered in his cell....[/i]
Yep, 'allegedly', by ONE other person, behind a closed door. He'd 'allegedly' told the 4 of them he'd take them all out together.
Anyway, that subject's a complete digression from the OP.

Creatine has recently been banned from prisons because it (again, 'allegedly'} has some side effect which masks the effect & results of certain other drug use, as in a prisoner giving a drug test which would normally be positive, turns out negative. Something to do with the liver & proteins/enzymes, or so I'm led to believe.