[Closed] Should Britain go to war with Iran?

after reading all the input on this thread I have changed my mind..
we should definitely go to war with Iran..
I read it as

should we go to war with [b]rain[/b]

Is the correct response "suck it and see" or "what could possibly go wrong?"?

Most definitely not.

War is just a business enterprise that regular folk don't profit from.

My goodness, ernie. You really have drunk the Chinese Kool Aid haven't you? Those well-meaning and charitable Chinese giving a few scholarships, building docks etc - damned nice of them eh? It is called soft diplomacy. Every country with more does it to countries with less. Building large docks and gaining exclusivity for your own country to put your own ships and no other in that port you built (for yourself) isn't a gift.

War is a continuation of politics by other means. The politicians were voted in because this is a democracy, whatever you believe it to be. Influence your politicians to do the right thing. Asking whether Britain 'should go to war' misses out the whole route to such a decision - which is where thinking is most needed. For example, what would the reason be for such action?

So will it all be OK when Iran becomes a nuclear power? If not, what then?

If it's gonna happen, can we at least delay it until 2015 or thereabouts. With any luck, Scotland might be able to sit this one out.

Building large docks and gaining exclusivity for your own country to put your own ships and no other in that port you built (for yourself) isn't a gift.

It's a darn sight better than invading, blowing stuff up and taking precious resources from people by force though, in't it?

My goodness, ernie. You really have drunk the Chinese Kool Aid haven't you?

I don't think he has. I just think he hazzunt swallowed the Western Bullshit, is all.

The politicians were voted in because this is a democracy, whatever you believe it to be.

It's not, but you keep believing that, eh?

tootall earlier today..

[img] [/img]

TooTall - Member

My goodness, ernie. You really have drunk the Chinese Kool Aid haven't you? Those well-meaning and charitable Chinese giving a few scholarships, building docks etc - damned nice of them eh? It is called soft diplomacy.

Where's the bit TooTall, where I say the Chinese are well-meaning, charitable, and damned nice ?

If you are going to comment on my posts then it would probably be worthwhile to actually read them, eh, whadda reckon ?

It pretty clear to any fool why the Chinese are behaving the way they are in Africa......it's a business arrangement.

Which is precisely the point that the Washington based think-tank, the Institute for Policy Studies, is making in the link which I provided. Or are you suggesting that the IPS has also "drunk the Chinese Kool Aid" ? :rolls eyes:

.

buzz-lightyear - Member

So will it all be OK when Iran becomes a nuclear power

About as OK as ****stan being a nuclear power. Of course you know that Iran will become a nuclear power, as opposed to just generating nuclear energy, because the US, and other imperialist nations, say so ? ....sounds like a foolproof argument.

It's obvious that the real 'enemy' of Western Imperialism is China, but as no-one's going to mess with them directly, it's in the West's interests to block any possible Chinese expansion via territories where they have a lot of economic influence, such as Iran. And why North Korea is an 'enemy'; the West does not in any way give a fudge about 'democracy', it's never about anything like that, it's just a massive game of Risk!. Occupy as many territories as possible, in order to block any potential expansion into those territories you might want to pillage yourself.

It's incredibly sad that this is being done under the lie of 'protecting freedom and democracy', and even sadder that so many people fall for it. 🙁

Maybe they've drunk too much Kool-Ade....

buzz-lightyear - Member
So will it all be OK when Iran becomes a nuclear power? If not, what then?

Most likely out come is a nuclear arms race in the middle east and a greater prospect of people seeing this.

Iran are already breaking the 1968 non proliferation treaty (which they signed). They could either cooperate with the IAEA under the terms of the treaty or give 3 months notice and leave it. They are opting for neither.

you know that Iran will become a nuclear power, as opposed to just generating nuclear energy, because the US, and other imperialist nations, say so ?

I don't know do I 🙄 ? But the I reckon the balance of probabilities is that they are as interested in weapons as energy. You don't seem to agree; fine. Putting aside anti-American sentiment, can you justify your opinion?

Can't we just give each country in the middle east one decent sized bomb each (OK - with a delivery capability) and then let them work it out for themselves??

Iran are already breaking the 1968 non proliferation treaty (which they signed).

Pft. The USA break every convention and treaty ever written, on a regular basis. Iran are probbly desperately trying to arm themselves as a measure to protect their own borders from invasion, which as it stands, looks quite likely.

The biggest threat to Global stability is the USA. Simple fact. The one nation which must be stopped in it's tracks over all others, is the USA.

Otherwise we're all flipped.

Elfinsafety - Member
Iran are probbly desperately trying to arm themselves as a measure to protect their own borders from invasion

Iran are already breaking the 1968 non proliferation treaty (which they signed)

The United States is breaking the 1968 non-proliferation treaty everyday.

I would suggest that we attack the US for violation of 1968 non-proliferation treaty, but then of course the UK is also in breach of the 1968 non-proliferation treaty.

Hypocrisy by the West........who would have thought it eh ?

The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, also referred to as the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), obligates the five acknowledged nuclear-weapon states (the United States, Russian Federation, United Kingdom, France, and China) not to transfer nuclear weapons, other nuclear explosive devices, or their technology to any non-nuclear-weapon state. Nuclear weapon States Parties are also obligated, under Article VI, to "pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control." Non-nuclear-weapon States Parties undertake not to acquire or produce nuclear weapons or nuclear explosive devices. They are required also to accept safeguards to detect diversions of nuclear materials from peaceful activities, such as power generation, to the production of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices. This must be done in accordance with an individual safeguards agreement, concluded between each non-nuclear-weapon State Party and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). Under these agreements, all nuclear materials in peaceful civil facilities under the jurisdiction of the state must be declared to the IAEA, whose inspectors have routine access to the facilities for periodic monitoring and inspections. If information from routine inspections is not sufficient to fulfill its responsibilities, the IAEA may consult with the state regarding special inspections within or outside declared facilities.

Which part?

That part. ^

The US and UK have bin supplying Israel with nukey bits for decades. Israel denies having nukes, but it's widely accepted that they do. And it doesn't take a genius to work out where they got them from.

does not in any way Iran allow UN inspectors in to come and have a look round? Does Israel?

nuke from orbit , let the insects takesover.

Which part?

This bit :

[i]"pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control."[/i]

Signatories have an obligation to general and complete nuclear disarmament. Maintaining nuclear arsenals with no intention of disarming is in violation of the treaty. As is also without a doubt, developing new generations of nuclear weapons such as Trident.

Elfinsafety, you are bang on the money, Iran ONLY needs to protect itself against the 'anti-semitists' that are Israel.
Allmountainadventure, stop reading the mainstream media. It isn't impartial.
Buzz-lightyear, as above.
WE HAVE ALL BEEN PLAYED;
1871: An American General named, Albert Pike, who had been enticed into the Illuminati by Guissepe Mazzini, completes his military blueprint for three world wars and various revolutions throughout the world, culminating into moving this great conspiracy into its final stage.
The first world war is to be fought for the purpose of destroying the Tsar in Russia,as promised by Nathan Mayer Rothschild in 1815. The Tsar is to be replaced with communism which is to be used to attack religions, predominantly Christianity. The differences between the British and German empires are to be used to forment this war.
The second world war is to be used to forment the controversy between facism and political zionism with the slaughter of Jews in Germany a lynchpin in bringing hatred against the German people. This is designed to destroy fascism (which the Rothschilds created) and increase the power of political zionism. This war is also designed to increase the power of communism to the level that it equalled that of united Christendom.
The third world war is to be played out by stirring up hatred of the Muslim world for the purposes of playing the Islamic world and the political zionists off against one another. Whilst this is going on, the remaining nations would be forced to fight themselves into a state of mental, physical, spiritual and economic exhaustion.
On August 15th of this year, Albert Pike writes a letter (now catalogued in the British Museum) to Guiseppe Mazzini in which he states the following,
“We shall unleash the nihilists and the atheists and we shall provoke a great social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to all nations the effect of absolute atheism; the origins of savagery and of most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the people will be forced to defend themselves against the world minority of the world revolutionaries and will exterminate those destroyers of civilization and the multitudes disillusioned with Christianity whose spirits will be from that moment without direction and leadership and anxious for an ideal, but without knowledge where to send its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer brought finally out into public view. A manifestation which will result from a general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and Atheism; both conquered and exterminated at the same time.”

Accept it!

[img] [/img]

We should absolutely not go to war with Iran unless they attack us first.
And they wont.

5thElephant, all just an incredible coincidence then, eh? I could direct you to a few hundred more if it pleases?

1871: An American General named, Albert Pike

............On August 15th of this year, Albert Pike writes a letter

This geezer is still alive ? How old is he ? ..... he was already a general 140 years ago.

What has he done.....sold his soul to the Devil ?

He died in 1891.

Spooky :

On August 15th of this year, Albert Pike writes a letter (now catalogued in the British Museum) to Guiseppe Mazzini in which he states the following

From beyond the grave eh ?

weester - Member

chewkw Your suffering from an extreme case of 'moral relavitism'

😆 Crikey big words that 'moral relativism'. My head hurts.

I doubt I am that complicated to suffer from moral relativism as my view is not related to either ethical or unethical moral dilemma in any specific context.

My view is simple. The winner(s) set the rules and the losers follow and if they refuse they get punish. Simple. If nuking to get the job done so be it (we may win or we may lose). People suffer people die so if one does not want to suffer or die then one should control/better oneself and stop trying to change the world or others, which apply to all including those rogue states ... yes, rogue.

🙄

This year = 1871. Confusing use of language.

chewkw - If you don't mind me asking, what is your nationality and original language? Thanks.

[url= http://www.rabbisforpalestine.org/ ]null[/url]
Ernie-lynch, are you pissed? It clearly means August 1871.

Chewkw, pft! Did you know that the only middle eastern country to have ever shot down an air liner (with passengers) is Israel (not to mention their other numerous crimes). Is that Rogue enough for you?

Have a look at what these 'rogues' have to say. http://www.rabbisforpalestine.org/

Druidh, sensible questions from a sensible Briton!

Ernie-lynch, are you pissed? It clearly means August 1871.

No I'm not pissed. If you meant August 1871, then why did you say "On August 15th of this year" ?

At least I made an effort to read your long-winded post, I bet many haven't bothered. Git.

Lol. Not my words chief! However, it seemed fairly self explanatory to me.

Huzzah, I'm all for it, let's show [s]Jerry[/s] Jihadi what's what, they don't like it up 'em, we need a short, cleansing thunderstorm, it'll all be over by Christmas.

[img] [/img]

druidh - Member

chewkw - If you don't mind me asking, what is your nationality and original language? Thanks.

Is that important? Or to be specific a place that is infested with maggots that does/will not try to understand you because you have loose morals and not "God" fearing people. In their eyes you are all Zionists' muppets if you do not bow to their one and only true God 😆

Is that important?

I think it is. I want to know if you are a hornet or a self-righteous maggot.

ernie_lynch - Member

I think it is. I want to know if you are a hornet or a self-righteous maggot.

Neither. I am just a figment of your imagination.

I don't mind being labelled as either hornet or maggot ... all will eventually die anyway.

Chewkw, you are a psychopath. Possibly even a zionist. Mankind is not a cancer on the earth, but zionists are!

Is this the weirdest thread ever on STW?

weester - Member

Chewkw, you are a psychopath. Possibly even a zionist. Mankind is not a cancer on the earth, but zionists are!

Simple perhaps but definitely not Zionist nor their opposite counterpart ... Psychopath ... hmmm ... If I am one then the majority would be the same as well. Might include you.

TandemJeremy - Member

Is this the weirdest thread ever on STW?

Define weirdest ... 😯

maggots!

Kevevs - Member

maggots!

😆

It's a long way to Bandar Azani, it's a long way to go...

[img] [/img]

chewkw - Member
> druidh - Member
> chewkw - If you don't mind me asking, what is your
> nationality and original language? Thanks.

Is that important?

'In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.'

Eisenhower's Farewell Address to the Nation

Hmmm!

the planet would be better off if the UK and US were nuked from the face of the planet, is the real truth. Cos it's us that start all the bloody wars these days..

😆 ace

classic middle class angst

druidh - Member

Not particularly, just interested as you seem to struggle with not only vocabulary, but sentence structure. Juan used to be pilloried for this on account of him being French and many folk not knowing that.

I am not French nor am I a native speaker put it this way. Yes, sentence construction is not my strength and my vocabulary can be rather limited too but there you go ... end of the world 😆

I don't mind if someone wants to make fun etc of my language usage or sentence construction. Never bothered me a bit put it this way as I am still learning or shall I say ... long gone the days of trying to impress or to look cool. Remember I wear Clarks shoes and many hip people disagree with that ...

So out of interest why is it important for you to know?

I can understand Juan perfectly well including his reasoning and both of us are not even native speakers, so if I can understand him surely everyone can?

So where are you from?

chewkw - Member

Define weirdest ...

Most weird.

HTH.

chewkw - Member
So out of interest why is it important for you to know?

druidh - Member

Did I say it was important?

Ok, rephrase ... why do you want to know?

Isn't diversity of opinions good for a forum?

Oh ya ... I passed GCE 'O' Level English with a C grade simply by watching Sesame Street. In those days I had to get an interpreter (my uncle who got rather fed up with me asking him all the time ... LOL!)

weester - Member

So where are you from?

Land below the wind.

I get Chewk fine, just got a thing about bloody maggots. MAGGOTS! "going to war with" you mean "invading and killing". It's not something new is it. OMG we're going to kill loads of people in a foreign oil rich land.. ho hum.. yeah great - everyones a winner baby. apart from the dead people.

Kevevs - Member

I get Chewk fine, just got a thing about bloody maggots. MAGGOTS! "going to war with" you mean "invading and killing". It's not something new is it. OMG we're going to kill loads of people in a foreign oil rich land.. ho hum.. yeah great - everyones a winner baby. apart from the dead people.

LOL! Yes, maggots we are. The cycle never ends.

The use of maggots as illustrating a point I guess simplify things and avoid the hassle of misinterpretation. No big words there.

Dead people are dead so winning or losing does not concern them in fact death could do them plenty good by getting out of this cycle temporarily, if they had live a honourable lives. But just don't go shooting your brain out because of this ...

So where are you from?

S/he's not going to be any more right or wrong depending on where s/he happened to be born.

Which begs the question why he is so reticent to divulge where he was born. I'm not ashamed of my birthplace or ethnicity.

And I care where he was born as he makes great issue that people from third world countries are maggots which have poked a hornets nest, and it is therefore their responsibility if they get the crap bombed out of them. Which he feels confident to say as although he himself comes from a Far East third world country, he now lives in "the hornets nest"

BTW I use the term "I care" very loosely........I can't imagine actually caring what chewkw says about anything, apart from the obvious entertainment value of his posts of course.

Here is chewkw's foreign policy statement :

My view is simple. The winner(s) set the rules and the losers follow and if they refuse they get punish. Simple. If nuking to get the job done so be it (we may win or we may lose). People suffer people die so if one does not want to suffer or die then one should control/better oneself and stop trying to change the world or others, which apply to all including those rogue states ... yes, rogue.

[i]Should [b][u]Britain[/b][/u] go to war with [b][u]Iran[/b][/u]?[/i]

I believe the nature of the original question, and the inclusion of two specific countries, makes the nationality and location of anyone posting a fair topic for discussion in this case.

For example, would an Iranian agree with an American on this topic?

For example, would an Iranian agree with an American on this topic?

don simon,
My point remains :
The relevance of location and nationality is explicit in the OP's question, by asking about [i]Britain [/i] going to war with [i]Iran[/i].

I apologise if my choice of example causes issues for you and offer to retract it. I wouldn't want to get into an argument about [i]Why / Why not[/i] a theoretical Iranian [i]Would / Would not[/i] think the same as a theoretical American on the subject of Britain going to war with Iran. I accept it is not beyond the realms of possibillity that they can think the same. However, there is also the [i]possibility[/i] that they don't and this could be influenced by their position within this hypothetical situation. In fact, I fully accept that the impossiblity is for us to know how others are thinking without asking them and listening to their response.TBH I did not claim to know whether the two would agree or not, merely raised the question (which you answered with two questions).

ernie_lynch - Member

Which begs the question why he is so reticent to divulge where he was born. I'm not ashamed of my birthplace or ethnicity.

I have disclosed where I come from but if you cannot be arsed to see the "fire wood in the forest" there is nothing I can do. The answer is already right in front of you. Go check it. Do you need to be spoon fed like all the teens nowadays?

And I care where he was born as he makes great issue that people from third world countries are maggots which have poked a hornets nest, and it is therefore their responsibility if they get the crap bombed out of them. Which he feels confident to say as although he himself comes from a Far East third world country, he now lives in "the hornets nest"

Re-read the reference to maggots. Yes, including you and not just people from other countries. Like I say I treat everyone equally ... as maggot. So please don't think you/we are mighty great as a hornet.

As for living in the hornets nest well that's just part of life like everyone here. We moved around in search of greener pasture - legally in accordance to the law and the rules of the land. I did not jump off the truck at Dover put it this way.

BTW I use the term "I care" very loosely........I can't imagine actually caring what chewkw says about anything, apart from the obvious entertainment value of his posts of course.

No problem. Forum is for diverse opinions. Some good, some bad and some weird but that's the fun of it. What's the point of having a forum where everyone agrees? You might as well talk to yourself.

🙄

I apologise if my choice of example causes issues for you and offer to retract it. I wouldn't want to get into an argument about Why / Why not a theoretical Iranian Would / Would not think the same as a theoretical American on the subject of Britain going to war with Iran. I accept it is not beyond the realms of possibillity that they can think the same. However, there is also the possibility that they don't and this could be influenced by their position within this hypothetical situation. In fact, I fully accept that the impossiblity is for us to know how others are thinking without asking them and listening to their response.TBH I did not claim to know whether the two would agree or not, merely raised the question (which you answered with two questions).

Best post ever.

Malaysia, where there is tension between Muslim and Christian communities. No points for guessing which camp your in Chewkw. Violence begets violence you know.

chewkw - my apologies. I appear to have set the dogs on you by my innocent question. IMHO, if you contribute to the forum, you have a right to have your opinion heard and where you're from is irrelevant.

even if you're cornish ?

Meh - I have standards!

weester - Member

Malaysia, where there is tension between Muslim and Christian communities. No points for guessing which camp your in Chewkw. Violence begets violence you know.

😆 I am none of the above Abrahamic faith so your guess is wrong.

Yes, violence begets violence but the concept of "if someone slap you in the right cheek let them slap you in the left cheek as well" is really stupid. Who taught you that?

The answer is if someone slap you in the right cheek you learn and avoid being slapped again, or better still slap the hell out of the other person to teach him/her a lesson.

weester, where are you from? Scotland by any chance? But do tell. 🙄

p/s: druidh, no apology needed. No offence taken from everyone as well. It's a forum after all and that's how it works. 🙂

hahaha!

Like we have any say in it, going straight to hell and those who are in charge, only care about steering.

Do not lose faith, those who have shown us paradise are only getting started 😈

Judging by how quickly events are escalating or more accurately how quickly the situation is deteriorating on this world, this should get very interesting, SOON! 😯

Chewkw, you are a psychopath. Possibly even a zionist

Wrecker, are you familiar with what Zionisism has done to the world?

Chewkw, I'm from Britain. 🙄 Look, I wasn't trying to make an issue of your faith, I was just trying to get a handle on why you feel like you've been so wronged to want to justify a war that will lead to the deaths of millions?

BTW, your english seems alright to me. Its not how but what you said that has erm, intrigued me.

Wrecker, are you familiar with what Zionisism has done to the world

People in "being assholes" shocker.
Being dicks is not exclusive to the zionists. Christians, Muslims, communists, capitalists etc etc have all done their fair share of damage and I wouldn't use any of these terms as an insult. It would be easier to name the groups who haven't adversely affected the world (although none spring to mind).

wrecker - Member

I find it funny that you regard the word Zionist as an insult!

LOL! None of the descriptions insulted me in anyway or form but I am not sure if it was the other round. 😀

Chewkw, I'm from Britain.

Aha ... you've avoided the question. So exactly where? Scotland, N.Ireland, Wales? North, East, South or West?

I have no issue about others questioning my belief but that's another story.

As for the nuking the maggots ... it's going to happen so why pussy footing about eh?

What's with all these shite about Zionists trying to rule the world? That is impossible as the nature of things mean there will always be a counter balance to balance things up. 🙄

I have disclosed where I come from but if you cannot be arsed to see the "fire wood in the forest" there is nothing I can do. The answer is already right in front of you. Go check it. Do you need to be spoon fed like all the teens nowadays?

What you talking about, stop talking in riddles......are you suggesting that I should trawl through reading every post in the whole forum ? I'm such a teenager, eh ? 😀

If you don't have a problem saying where you come from then just spit it out - no need to go all round the back-doubles. Besides, I thought I had made it clear that I knew.

.

I find it funny that you regard the word Zionist as an insult!

Well if I accused someone of being a Zionist I wouldn't expect them to take it as a compliment.

A territorial claim based on what God told Moses three thousand years ago is quite frankly idiotic.

And all the more so as most Israelis do not consider themselves to be "religious". Plus many ultra-orthodox Jews refuse to recognise the Israeli State on the grounds that God banished the Jewish people into exile.

The belief that Jews are entitled to Palestinian land as reparation for what Europeans, in particular Germans, did to them, is also equally absurd.

An American Jew has no automatic right to a "homeland" other than the United States. Similarly, Russian Jews, Australian Jews, whatever, have no automatic right to live anywhere other than own country.

Zionism is based on bigotry - it goes to the very heart of Zionism, and it is as much of a stain on humanity as the Apartheid was. If I call someone a Zionist or racist I fully expect them to feel insulted, despite the fact that they might feel perfectly happy to consider themselves to be Zionist or racist.

jackthedog - what exactly is your point? Or are you some sort of bot that produces texts from individual English words that are almost, but not quite, intelligible?

😯 What the bejesus has happened to this thread???

and iran continues the political game

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16344102
and
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/12/22/uk-iran-navy-wargame-idUKTRE7BL0HZ20111222

whilst they could be forging good favour by using their navy to counter the pirate problem in the arabian sea?

Nope

They block that strait of Hormuz and all bets are off. Our "special cousins" will go batshit and they won't do it quietly.

they could be forging good favour by using their navy to counter the pirate problem in the arabian sea?

So you think it would be a bad thing for the Iranian Navy to run training exercises but a good thing for them to be boarding vessels in international waters? Got it...

so policing international waters from criminal gangs is a bad thing?

fair enough jim laddddd!

[img] [/img]

so policing international waters from criminal gangs is a bad thing?