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Won shit in a sock?
Gideon and Dave are out of power.
I'll do half a jig to that
And Boris Johnson is foreign secretary.
*suspends jig*
It's no coincidence that Foreign Secretary is an anagram of Court Jester.
Have any of the jubilent leavers noticed that we're still in and showing no intention of enacting Article 50?
May's comments about Scotland suggest she's kicking the Article 50 can several years down the road, if not forever.
So all we've achieved is a recession and loss of EU funding for various things.
Yeah but Nigel is going to get a blue passport.
We all want Nigel to have a blue passport.
Hopefully Nigel will use his blue passport to **** off back to the 50s.
Have any of the jubilent leavers noticed that we're still in and showing no intention of enacting Article 50?
Yes I've noticed
Great I think, we've got a prime minister who is going to stop and think about things and come up with a strategy, rather than going off half cocked
Why the hurry?
As long as it's issued before the end of April 2018, then we will be out before the next election.
As long as it's issued before the end of April 2018, then we will be out before the next election.
Why? Are you worried the public won't continue to support brexit at the GE? Surely if it's the will of the people you shouldn't fear there being a change of heart, or is this not the democracy that you're looking for?
Why? Are you worried the public won't continue to support brexit at the GE? Surely if it's the will of the people you shouldn't fear there being a change of heart, or is this not the democracy that you're looking for?
quite the contrary - I think that it provides the perfect opportunity for the Conservative Party to go to the country and demonstrate that they have delivered on their manifesto commitment to hold a referendum and respect the outcome.
"We were elected on a mandate to hold a referendum and respect the outcome, we held a referendum, you voted to leave, and we left, so there you are, job jobbed - now, do you want to go onward into independence with a government who have proven themselves, or do you want that rabble of sh*** who still haven't picked a leader?"
ninfan - MemberWhy the hurry?
Overall I agree with you, fools rush in, etc.
But, since you asked...
1) There are lots of people who are very worried about their future. For example: my friend with a German wife, they're both worried. My Mexican friend with his polish wife, the deafening silence from No10 is forcing them all to consider how they'll leave the uk when they're told to. It's easy for people like me to think they're worrying over nothing, but who knows what our new pm ('immigrants go home') has in mind.
2) Eu funding for uk science is going to start drying up, this is bad news. The longer we do nothing about it, the worse it'll be. if we're to have a future in high value manufacturing ( aerospace, medicine, energy generation, etc.) we need to start nailing down the access/collaboration/funding agreements.
Our relationship with the EU is already changing. We need to get involved with the process, but we won't be allowed in the room till we confirm our position.
That's more a case of 'what assurances we give industry and the wider public of our intentions' - which I agree it vitally important and overdue, rather than when we actually issue the A50 though, which I wouldn't be doing till we had had at the very least a long sit down chat with Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Belgium and the Netherlands.
I still have faith that article 50 will be left to moulder in the political equivalent of 'that corner of the shed/garage' we all have. Where it belongs.
With any luck it will just pass into obscurity as one of those political oddities like Andorra still being officially at war with Germany because they weren't at the Paris signings at the end of the Second World War.
And yes, I am aware that it would be a massive two fingers to the people who voted to leave. An entirely appropriate one.
As long as it's issued before the end of April 2018, then we will be out before the next election.
Dream on, it has taken 300 Canadian trade negotiators seven years to negotiate their trade deal with the EU and it still hasn't been ratified / implemented yet. I doubt we'll see Article 50 enacted in under 10 years; probably never.
NB and the UK has zero trade negotiators, having not had to negotiate a trade deal since 1975.....
Dream on, it has taken 300 Canadian trade negotiators seven years to negotiate their trade deal with the EU and it still hasn't been ratified / implemented yet. I doubt we'll see Article 50 enacted in under 10 years; probably never.NB and the UK has zero trade negotiators, having not had to negotiate a trade deal since 1975.....
According to a piece by David Davis (got him the brexit tzar gig by all accounts) we should complete negotiations with the likes of China, US and India within a year! 😆
According to a piece by David Davis (got him the brexit tzar gig by all accounts) we should complete negotiations with the likes of China, US and India
Pillock.
Pillock indeed. Remarkably ignorant of how Europe works as well...
Take our new secretary of state for exiting the European Union, David Davis. It has emerged that as recently as May, Davis had believed it would be possible for Britain to negotiate trade deals directly with each EU member state, as opposed to the reality, which is that the member states are only permitted to negotiate as a bloc.
Dream on, it has taken 300 Canadian trade negotiators seven years to negotiate their trade deal with the EU and it still hasn't been ratified / implemented yet.
Do you understand the reason for this ?
28 voices all with a veto all wanting something different, so the Canadians have a better chance of nailing mist to the wall than getting an agreement.
Same with the EU-India trade deal - the UK is the 3rd largest foreign investor in India, but we can't have a trade deal because Portugal is upset about wine tarifs - so a group of countries with 500 million people can't have a trade deal because of a few bottles of Mateus.
It is madness and holding the UK back. Thankfully the madness is coming to an end.
It is madness and holding the UK back.
The evidence points the other way. We were on our knees in 75 when we begged to join and have prospered greatly ever since. We're now pretending we're going to tear up the very trade deal which allowed us to do so well.
I'll wager it won't happen.
We joined the EEC in 1973 before the IMF bail out.
All the improvements in the economy since 197[s]5[/s] 3 cannot be laid at the door of the EU.
28 voices all with a veto all wanting something different, so the Canadians have a better chance of nailing mist to the wall than getting an agreement.
Basically the same reason that TTIP got held up and watered down.
So not always a bad thing!
Basically the same reason that TTIP got held up and watered down.
Apparently the US want to revisit it completely as the UK represents 25% of EU:US trade.
TTIP is something that I don't know much about, but a German friend of mine ( who works for an organisation with the word European in its title ) said that he would have voted Brexit just because of TTIP. It is a big deal in Germany where their MPs have finally been allowed to view the agreement in a sealed room into which they cannot take paper/pen/mobile phone.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/germany-states-british-access-to-eu-single-market-reasonable-bre/ ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/germany-states-british-access-to-eu-single-market-reasonable-bre/[/url] It shouldn't be a surprise, but Europe needs the UK to trade with it and wants us to trade with them.
To the OP. Have a good look at yourself and all around. Happy with the sh{t storm you and your narrow minded and somewhat racist friends have achieved?
From the 48% of this once great nation, F OFF.
From the 48% of this once great nation, F OFF.
Surely it would be more sensible for those who want to [i]remain[/i] in the EU to F OFF and live there, while they still have the right to?
he would have voted Brexit just because of TTIP
The UK were major fans of TTIP and without the rest of the EU demanding that it was watered down and renegotiated we would have happily signed up for the original.
Indeed they got quite frustrated at the other countries stalling it:
[url= https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/extracts-from-the-chancellors-speech-on-europe ]George Osborne speaking at Open Europe Conference (Jan 2014):[/url]
We should set ourselves the urgent task of completing the transatlantic trade and investment partnership – the EU-US Free Trade agreement [TTIP].This would be the world's biggest ever trade deal – together our economies would account for half of global output.
The Commission estimate it would boost the European economy by 120 billion euros a year – that's over 500 euros for every family in the EU. It would bring £10 billion pounds a year to the UK alone.
Some in the European Parliament talk about stalling this Trans-Atlantic Partnership to pursue other agendas.
France said they would veto TTIP....
There's no winners here. Just people being smug despite having no reason to be
enjoy the recession and years of uncertainty
Bang on, brexit is for the uneducated.
all is left of uk public services sold to private companies .
what could go wrong ?
and yes Nifan , we are leaving next spring .
@ninfan, funnily enough we are seriously considering it. I wouldn't for one moment consider myself to be part of the brain drain, but we have a number of scientist friends who are already packing up and leaving. An interesting fact for you to consider- all cancer research in the UK is funded by charity,private and or EU funding. Not a penny from this government. That's one small branch of science, that according to a number of friends could almost disappear completely in the next 12 to 24 months.
As much as I hate to correct anti - Brexit sentiment the UK govt do fund cancer research, primarily through the MRC. BBSRC also fund related research so long as it is exploring fundamental biology rather than being of direct clinical relevance.
Eg: the MRC cancer unit http://www.mrc-cu.cam.ac.uk
or EU funding. Not a penny from this government.
Think about that for a minute...
Now ask yourself where the EU get their money from 😉
Yeah but that money's gone ninfan - you won't be seeing any of the fabled £350m post Brexit. Trust me. You won't quite know where it's gone, but it'll be gone.
Actually, a single world government got me thinking. I wonder if the leavers object to the UN too.
UN has a real power of veto for fhe key members like the UK, available on all resolutions I believe
Whilst the UN has clearly done many good things it has very ineffective in certain conflicts and has also become extremely political and unwieldy
NATO is a very specific and well defined organisation with a clear purpose, even saying that most members do not honour the 2% GDP spending commitment.
Funding, we get back 55% of what we pay in. Aside from funding other nations including non-members and development projects we oay for the ludicrous overhead that is the EU bureaucracy including the monthly decamp from Brussels to Strasbourg.
Sunday Times reporting that we are scoping 12 Trade Treaties with a view to starting January 2019.
Funding, we get back 55% of what we pay in. Aside from funding other nations including non-members and development projects we oay for the ludicrous overhead that is the EU bureaucracy including the monthly decamp from Brussels to Strasbourg.
And the actual real life figure? Its millions and billons one day and percent when the emphasis changes. Just remember we are paying till we leave, don't know the full economic impact of leaving or if we will be asked to pay to play for free trade. Although you are confident we won't your record on facts is a bit shakey so it's your opinion.
or if we will be asked to pay to play for free trade.
Do you think that this country is dumb enough to pay for the right to be sold stuff ?
Really ?
Do you think that this country is dumb enough to pay for the right to be sold stuff ?Really ?
Yawn, yes the UK will just like the other countries who pay to get into the EEA. Although I'd love it if the UK negotiators wandered in demanded the world then slapped their massive knob on the table and waited for a response.
The fanciful world where the UK thinks it will get whatever it wants with no pain at all is why some people seemed to vote leave with no real idea.
Australia wants a free trade deal, alongside India and China, New Zealand and Canada:
[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36818055 ]http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36818055[/url]
Germany thinks that access to the Single Market is reasonable ( I guess they want to keep selling us cars and white goods ):
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/germany-states-british-access-to-eu-single-market-reasonable-bre/ ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/germany-states-british-access-to-eu-single-market-reasonable-bre/[/url] /p>
The problem is that some people have spent a lifetime talking their own country down, leading to them actually believing their own propaganda. The UK is a strong economy and a great place to do trade. There may be bumps on the way, but the future looks better than it has for a long time.
Australia you say? only 2 plus years headstart for the EU then 😉
http://dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/aeufta/pages/aeufta.aspx
and once the end of the article 50 process is complete then we can have a crack and negotiating them along with all the other ones. Nobody is saying it won't happen but it will take time and we will not be in as strong negotiating position as the EU is.
It's a good job we have our bast guys on it
In an interview with the Sunday Telegraph Mr Johnson had described ambitions to unify Europe as like “the EU trying to do what the Nazis wanted to do but by other means”.
Wolfgang Schäuble, the German Finance Minister, said that demands for British financial services firms to have access to the EU single market were “reasonable”.
Access, does that mean free trade with no strings? It means access the terms of which will be up for debate.
As said many many times the UK is a net importer of goods we may not pay to import stuff but we may end up paying to export into a market that we had free and unfettered access too and great influence over.
jambalaya - Member
...we get back 55% of what we pay in.
For a moment, let's pretend that's true (???).
Some us like where that money goes when we 'get it back': Environmental protection, regional development, science funding, trail centres, etc. Etc.
All things in which Westminster continues to show no interest at all.
Do you understand the reason for this ?28 voices all with a veto all wanting something different, so the Canadians have a better chance of nailing mist to the wall than getting an agreement.
It took nearly 10 years of formal negotiations for Japan and Oz to sign a very limited trade agreement. You're being hopelessly naïve if you think the UK can sign lots of FTAs quickly. Unless of course you want them to sign FTAs that are very bad for the UK, and very god for the other country. The speed at which we need these things to happen is what makes our bargaining situation very very weak.
The problem is that some people have spent a lifetime talking their own country down, [u]leading to them actually believing their own propaganda[/u].
Propaganda like:
The UK is a strong economy and a great place to do trade. There may be bumps on the way, but the future looks better than it has for a long time.
That's sheer fantasy. It would be lovely if it were true, but then so would unicorns jumping over flying pigs.
"28 voices all with a veto all wanting something different, so the Canadians have a better chance of nailing mist to the wall than getting an agreement.
Same with the EU-India trade deal - the UK is the 3rd largest foreign investor in India, but we can't have a trade deal because Portugal is upset about wine tarifs - so a group of countries with 500 million people can't have a trade deal because of a few bottles of Mateus."
This, and UK trade with the EU is declining. So we sacrifice trade with growing markets to make trade with declining markets easier. Maybe the balance hasn't tipped far enough to make now the right time to leave, but the direction the wind's blowing is pretty clear.
This, and UK trade with the EU is declining. So we sacrifice trade with growing markets to make trade with declining markets easier.
We sacrifice trade with the biggest economy in the world? It would have to decline a long way to make it not worth it!
"We sacrifice trade with the biggest economy in the world? It would have to decline a long way to make it not worth it"
Except we buy more than we sell to the EU... So we're paying to be a net customer.