[Closed] Self help, soft skills and Tony Robbins

You could argue that some of the soft skills you are referring to are those of a decent manager. Certainly leadership, negotiation and motivation can all be improved through some formal learning backed up with opportunities to practice them. Rather than doing another masters, how about looking at some management training / business courses. The OU may be a good place to look. Good luck.

Thanks Geoff - OU is a good thought, but I'm fearful unis are the wrong place to look. My masters in management was purely theoretical and it's the practical and coaching that I guess I'm really looking for. There's an interesting looking course in leadership at Manchester, but again it seems pure theory.

Maybe I should go do officer training with the military and then wimp out before active duty?!

Pete, not your real name, John etc, what you need is confidence, just chat to people like we do on here, some youll get a good responce off some not so good but its all experience.

A uni is ok for book based learning but you want real life learning, perhaps work on a checkout or a sales job in a shop or even a pub and get experience of chatting to people.

Be yourself and try to see what youre doing so wrong, which isnt much probably, its just your brian telling you youre not doing it like others would.

I doubt that there is any academic course which will be of much help. You need practise as well as theory.

Recognising that you need to improve is the most difficult step. The ancient Greek temple in Delphi had an inscription which simply read, 'Know Thyself'. You can start by trying to get a better understanding of yourself and an appreciation of how you are perceived by others. Start with this online personality test http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp . This is another test which will assess your ideological position http://www.politicalcompass.org/ The Johari Window is also worth looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johari_window Goldman's book on emotional intelligence is excellent http://www.amazon.co.uk/Emotional-Intelligence-Matter-More-Than/dp/0747528306 NLP is also very useful http://www.mindtrainingsystems.co.uk/?gclid=CIO3jsXM860CFUcTfAodjj7CtA

Leaders require followers. The key skill is communication and the critical quality is credibility. John Adair's stuff http://www.johnadair.co.uk/ is widely used, even by the military.

You could find a local life coach http://www.lifecoach-directory.org.uk/
Failing that you could join the Territorial Army!

Hi Pete

This is an area I know very well so I hope my input will be useful. I've worked for the last 10 years in the professional development industry. At the moment the company I work for specialises in developing sales capabilities, but in the past I've worked for organisations that focused more broadly on the area of leadership.

The skills you’ve referenced cover a range of areas, the largest of these is leadership. There are a few things about leadership that make it tricky; one it looks different at different levels of seniority in an organization. A CEO will need very different leadership skills to say a middle manager. Not only this, but what makes you successful at one level, will actually cause you to derail at the next level up. This is a common challenge for people moving up in their career. Is this perhaps what you’re experiencing; are you currently in a position where you’re responsible for people, i.e. they report to you?

Sales skills are a whole other area to leadership; rapport in something our company focuses on as a key sales skill but it is incredibly valuable for any and all. We teach the ideas behind ‘rapport’ as well as other skills such as having presence, the ability to relate to people, listening and checking your understanding etc.

Soft skills (we like to call them beavioural skills as opposed to technical or functional skills as you correctly identify them) are really hard to learn. In ten years of specializing in this subject what I’ve learnt is that people can change/develop their soft or behavioural skills but it is not easy. The reason it’s hard is because these skills are very closely linked to our personalities. Behaviour is not the same thing as personality, but it is a very close reflection of it; we express our personalities through our behavior. We are not salves to our personalities though, even if your personality doesn’t change, the way you express it can/does, but that change process takes time. Usually for people it happens as the result of their experiences but you can accelerate the process if you give people insight into what it is they should be doing differently, allow them a safe environment to practise, give them a compelling reason why they should change (without a burning platform why would you change? and then hold them to account for making the change.

You're not going to achieve your goals via a Masters degree. I know of the Masters in Leadership at Manchester; I studied at the business school there back in 2004 for an MBA and as part of that undertook a number o the modules on that programme. They are good theory and useful in part, but you’re not going to develop the leadership skills you’re looking for.

There are a number of ways you can proceed depending on what’s really going on for you, most of them would be best accessed through work as they are neither cheap nor particularly accessible to the consumer. The ‘lifestyle’ coaches, gurus self help books are all mostly nonsense or a waste of money. They aren’t going to do much than leave you poorer.

Organisational development programmes or business coaches, proper ones that cost about £1000 per two hour session, will work wonders. One to one coaching might be hugely beneficial for you in this situation. But as you can see, it’s not cheap and if you’re paying for it yourself, I would be really cautious.

This might sound out of line, but actually probably the best thing you could do privately, in terms of being really effective, is to get some good quality therapy. I;m speaking from personal experience but a few years ago I realized that I was having a very similar experience to you. Things weren’t quite working out as I expected they would and I knew I was ‘de-railing’. I knew I had some style issues and for me that was a hang over from childhood, from some pretty difficult things that happened to me. So I got a good therapist; someone who works a lot with very successful people in high power jobs (this particular guy had originally been in the army so not the kind of prissy background you might expect). What I achieved with this was awareness as to where the negative characteristics were coming from, what the signs were that they were about to manifest and what I could do to stop them. It wasn’t cheap but it was a lot cheaper than the coaching I outlined above.

Really this is a huge subject and if you’re serious about changing something it’s going to be a long journey. Feel free to get in touch with me by email and we can talk on the phone if it’s going to help. I’ve been pretty open here so hopefully you’d trust me to respect your confidence.

Get a job at Morrisons and they'll sort you if you have the potential

OK. I went through this, new role - new responsibilities at a very different level.

My gaffer recognised the fact I was drowning and got a guy in.

Totally changed my outlook. I won't recommend him here, because it flies in the face of the way he works - but geetee speaketh the truth. don't be afraid to look for good quality professional help. I have been coached from x to y in the last few months, and recognise I am on a journey. My boss realised she was not qualified to help, so got this guy in. I will never be able to thank her enough.

Interesting responses - thanks everyone. GeeTee the suggestion about therapy is very interesting - would that be a psychiatrist, psychologist or NLP type that you would recommend?

By way of background I managed a team of 20 and did a pretty decent job (I think - many still call me for help/advice) - I then left that post about four years ago to move for family reasons and I've been struggling to even reach the same career level since.

Pete - the single most important feature of any successul therapy engagement is trust between the client and the therapist. That's really the only thing that matters, assuming the therapist is appropriately qualified.

A psychiatrist treats mental disorders with drugs. They take a physiological approach to treatment and are qualified in the same way that medical doctors are.

I seriously doubt you need/want a psychiatrist!

A psychologist is a more general term and can cover a range of different approaches to treating a range of different issues. So this is where you see classic Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) as an approach to therapy. This is what I engaged with.

I' not a fan of NLP. It's a great sounding theory which isn't actually all that original and I'm very sceptical of the money spinning aspects of it. I'd steer clear in my view.

The best thing to do is to contact the British Psychological Society. All therapists, counsellors etc must be qualified and registered with this organisation and maintain their membership. It gives them chartered status. This is the best assurance that you're engaging with someone qualified and proper, not just a 'kook' (of which there are plenty about).

Even then, if the relationship doens't feel right after a few sessions, walk away. This isn't the same as saying walk away if you don't get results in a few sessions; the change will take time, maybe more than a year. But if you don't feel that the person you're working with is right, then it's best to stop sooner as its unlikely to work in the long run.

Its all about confidence, and confidence with your new work mates, just be yourself,

Echo geetee1972, he speaks sense, but also agree with project... confidence is key. You are the 'expert' in whatever you are trying to convey. Belive that and people will follow.

A note on negotiation, in my experience this is sort of 'anti' sales ie someone is trying to 'sell' you something. Negotiation is finding something that goes against the sales patter and leverages your position?...

if that makes any sense, sorry I've had a beer! 🙂

Sweet. The BPS website looks like it has a great search for a therapist tool.

Throwing yourself in somewhere that you'd have to speak to people might help.

I'd describe myself as shy but working in a retail environment for a few years (one where yo uhave to really interact with customers as well, i,e, not just on a checkout in tescos although that could still help), and training as leader in the university's rambling society have really helped me. I still feel a bit uncomfortable talking to people I don't know but I'm getting far better at it!
And I had a job interview (all be it for some volunteering) a couple of weeks ago and got the job s I must have come across OK.

Other than that I think it's just a matter of recognising your strengths and weaknesses and coming up with some sort of strategy so that you can compensate for any weaknesses with your strengths.

"Pete"

a lot that geetee says I would agree with. If you have a fail amount of experience and have lost your way or confidence a bit, doing a formal qual wil get some letters after you name but may not actually help with what your explaining is going on now.....

By way of background I managed a team of 20 and did a pretty decent job (I think - many still call me for help/advice) - I then left that post about four years ago to move for family reasons and I've been struggling to even reach the same career level since.

This on its own doesn't sound like a failure, more just a re focus and some thinking around self esteem and confidence.

Therapy, not so sure, psychiatrist, no, counselling no to that too... also unsure with NLP...

Sounds like a coach or mentor may be able to help as a first shot. Its an internal question that a lot of people wrestle with at some time and with a bit of unravelling to get to the bottom of, a new way forward can be worked on. Like geetee said, there is no quick fix and it will take honesty and reflection on your part to understand some of the "why's" before you get the progress your looking for.

A good coach should give you a "Chemistry Session" for free. This is all about whether you both see eye to eye, how coaching works and what you can expect. As well as can you actually get along and work with each other as people. Coaching needs that level of trust or rapport, but having said that, the person you "like" may not be the one that is most effective !

Like geetee I have been in the development training industry industry for years delivering team and leadership programmes as well as working as business coach. I am currently engaged 1:1 with clients on this and other career challenges.

I am in Edinburgh if you want a chat or again, pm me. As said, confidentiality is a given....

This is good - thanks everyone. Options to explore with therapy/coaching and hopefully not a cheesy US self help guru in-sight.

Confidence and choosing the appropriate direction of travel are definitely the headline issues and it sounds promising that they can be sorted with some help.

Anyone had a go at this personality test http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp ? Basically it's a free MBTI assessment and an excellent place to start the process of self improvement.

A copy of how to win friends and influence people might be a cheap and easy way to start.

I did some military leadership training during my time in the university OTC and later on with the TA. Useful but very different to the usual skills you need as a middle manager in a corporate environment.

My current company sent me on some management training where we were tested and put through various scenarios. It revealed that the one thing the military training had left me with was a set of skills that are useful in times of crisis and useful to have when decisive action is needed quickly. I was told never to use them in day to day management unless I wanted to be hated!

I have experimented with this and I can confirm that people stop wanting to be your friend when you are very blunt and forceful with them 😆

For god's sake just be yourself. If you're a tosser be a tosser, if you're a nice guy be a nice guy. Why would you want to be fake?

BigEaredBiker - that' s very interesting. I've argued for some time that there are no authentic leaders in military organisations. Leaders need followers. Followers implies choice. Soldiers don't have a say. Therefore, the default relationship is one of commander and subordinates. Commanders have legal authority to compel their subordinates to obey their orders. Failure to obey can ultimately lead to imprisonment, and historically to execution. There's little requirement for military commanders to persuade others to elect them as leaders.

Real leadership is about convincing others to place their trust in your abilities and integrity.

Surrounded by Zulus - How is wanting to improve being fake?

Changing so people like you is fake.

There is a difference between being a fake and genuinely wanting to improve your relationships with others. Improving self-awareness, body language, active listening, communication skills, and emotional intelligence can help some people to discover who they really are.

Changing so people like you is fake.

No, moderating behaviour to appear more likeable may be construed as being phoney, but moderating the way in which you behave in order to make your subordinates work more effectively/customers buy more/students learn more effectively is [i]being better at your job[/i]

subordinates

There's your problem right there. Treat folk like the equals that they are and you wont go far wrong.

Yes. Which is why organisations with authoritarian cultures lack authentic leaders, tolerate toxic commanders and breed bullies.

Who is the greatest leader ever?

Building rapport - at least how I conceive of it - is a lot broader than 'likeability';

I also think it's completely possible to treat folk as equals whilst at the same time doing an effective job of managing them

What do mean by greatest? If we use the number of followers as a metric then Christ, Muhammad and the Buddha must be in contention. Secular leaders like Mao, Hitler or Stalin don't come close. Of course, it can be argued that Genhis Khan has been the most successfull leader as his DNA is found in millions of people today!

Where would Ghandhi fit into the list of greatest ever leaders?

Redfordrider how about darwin then?

Subordinates was used as an alternative to employee as that word, to me implies ownership of the company. I did not mean to imply that all managers and team leaders are members of a ruling elite who regard those occupying the position s below them in the chain of command as inferior.

How would you measure 'greatest'? Most effective? Most followers? Most ethical? We need a common metric or criteria to make relative, but objective comparisons.

Real leadership is about convincing others to place their trust in your abilities and integrity.

I disagree. Real leadership is about encouraging people to trust in their abilities and integrity.

Inigomontoya - Darwin is leader of ideas. You don't have to agree with his theories to appreciate that they are very influential. Being a team leader or manager doesn't make anyone a member of a superior class. But being managed by a toxic leader may make many employees feel inferior.

Surrounded by Zulus - coaching and mentoring is a function of leadership. However, followers allow leaders to make decisions on their behalf, resolve disputes and represent their interests to other groups. This requires trust. Many people are rightly sceptical and potential leaders must earn their trust.

redford - I just did the personality test, thanks. It was very illuminating and accurate.

I have done one before and I think I might have changed types, but can't remember. Do people do that or not?

OP - Give it a go if you didn't already.

coaching and mentoring is a function of leadership.

That assumes that the "leader" has better skills than the other people in their "team", not always the case. Take football as an example - goal keeper is the captain, do you think they are in any position to coach or mentor the outfield players? Or do you think that by just being good at what they do they encourage others to fulfil their potential?

Redfordrider,

I agree with you about military leadership up to a point. IMO the armed forces do possess some very good leaders, but because of the disciplined structure it can be easy to just rely upon the legal authority a little too much.

This will only get people so far and I can think of two simple reasons for this;

1. There are many job roles within the military were a junior rank has to exert authority or direction/influence upon a person with greater rank.
2. In it's purest form (the battlefield) leaders who are despised or seen as dangerous can be easily 'got rid of'. You only have to look at reports of 'fragging' within the US military during Vietnam for evidence of this, and I have little doubt that it happened (perhaps more rarely) within the conscripted British Army of WW1 & 2.

Military leadership can definitely be very different from corporate leadership but I would in no way look down upon it or say that military personel don't need to develop or possess good leadership skills. In fact in these times of increased commitments and reduced headcount it is probably more important than ever.

My point in my first post, I guess, was that the OP should not look to the military to solve his lack of influence in an office environment.

Management and leadership are different things IMO.

You can be managing something and not necessarily leading it.

chakaping - it's not clear that people can change their personality type. If you take the test when you are young and still forming your worldview, values and norms it's likely to change once you reach a level of maturity (not necessarily your age). However, knowing your own personality traits helps you to understand how you are perceived by others, why you might have a personality clash with a collegue, or perhaps identify areas for improvement.

It's useful to google the four letter result of the test as there is lot of additional info on the net.

However, you need to answer the test according to your real feelings and not how you would like to be. Otherwise the test is meaningless. Honesty is key.

Managers do things right; Leaders do the right thing.

Nowt like a cliche is there. I really dont think you can learn leadership skills or read about how to improve them in a book. Also, in the military who are the real leaders - politicans?

BigEaredRider - useful points, thanks.

redfordrider - I'm probably being more honest now that I'm not doing it in a room full of work colleagues.

Makes more sense and the results are more useful anyway.

SBZ - take the test and tell us what type you are.

(I'm ESTJ, for the record)

Surrounded by Zulus - Some cliches are axiomatic; they are unoriginal because they are timeless and true. Your're right - theory without practise is unlikely to deliver results. However, I believe that leaders can be made and are not born. Leadership is not the result a 'superior' genetics or class. Everyone has the potential to be a leader. Few see this potential in themselves. A little theory, self awareness and reflection can encourage a person to free themselves from self doubt, poor self confidence and the put downs by others.

chakaping - I'm an INTP. This is me http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP.html . Thanks for sharing.

rfr, nicely put and a view I share.

Also with the MBTI test, interesting as it is to know a persons particular type is only a bit of the picture so making inferences based on MBTI type alone is in a way, its own cliche.....

How many times have you heard

"He / She is doing that and its ok as they are a WXYZ" (or whatever type)...

Cha****ng - I too am ESTJ.

Separated at birth, eh?

🙂

Apparently so.

rickmeister - MBTI and other Jung typologies are merely a tool and perhaps a starting point. Knowing that I have tendencies and traits broadly consistent with the INTP type I've been able to improve my relationships with collegues, family and friends. I also have a better understanding of how to manage relationships between members of my team. Most importantly, I can recognise how I react to stress and am able to adjust my behaviour. Have you tried this test http://www.politicalcompass.org/index ? Just a bit of fun.

Interesting test, thanks for the link... pressed a few buttons!