yep, it's remarkable how much the Venn diagram of "expensive" and "tasteless" overlap.
Blimey! I don't know what I was expecting at that price point - maybe for them to levitate an inch or two above the dining table - but they're very underwhelming for over 2 grand.
Reading the details about this case, he basically used the SNP account as a personal piggy bank for ten years and nobody suspected a thing, certainly not his wife and party leader.
I wonder if there are many other organizations whose auditing and accounting is so lax that they didn't notice nearly half a million quid going missing? I mean, it's not like they're Tesco or Jaguar Land Rover, turning over billions, so a figure like that may get lost, is it?
And they've been left in charge a nations budget for the last how many years? Somebody may want to have a look through the books?
if you are the FM and your party CEO says we've bought you a camper in case you need it for accommodation during a covid election campaign I don't think your first thought is "sounds like a racket",The cars and the campervan. The camper actually had a moderately plausible excuse (especially as they don’t seem to have used it for holidaying)
Wow. Surprised that anyone is still hanging on to this nonsense.
"The campervan was just resting on my mother's driveway".
I don’t think there is parking at the SNP HQ?
...
It IS apparently listed in the SNP accounts as an asset of the party so it seems it’s Shrodingers van - both a party asset and something acquired by Murrell.
lol no parking
"On the day of his arrest on 5 April 2023, police seized a £124,550 luxury motorhome parked outside Murrell's mother's house in Dunfermline...The German manufacturers, Niesmann and Bischoff, advertise the Smove 7.4e as "breaking all the rules"...Detectives established Murrell had bought it with party cash and covered his tracks with false entries in the SNP's accounts...He did the same when he purchased a Jaguar I-Pace and kept the proceeds when he later sold the car."
BBC.CO.UK
I wonder if there are many other organizations whose auditing and accounting is so lax that they didn't notice nearly half a million quid going missing? I mean, it's not like they're Tesco or Jaguar Land Rover, turning over billions, so a figure like that may get lost, is it?
As I said, there was an additional £675,000, raised specifically to support independence that shouldn't have been in the party accounts at all yet there's now no trace of. One assumes that other incomes and outgoings were balancing out pretty much as normal (subject to the usual fluctuations).
Also, Murrell was never Finance Secretary. Don't try to conflate the running of the Party with that of the Government the way the right wing rags are.
Murrell and Sturgeon were really living seperate lives for many years were they not?
Rumours for a long time were that the marriage was a sham to cover her other relationships.
The Spectator has s good line.
"Didn’t Nicola Sturgeon think it slight peculiar that her bald husband has bought two expensive Dyson hairdryers within the period of a few months? What was he drying?"
SPECTATOR.COM
Reading the details about this case, he basically used the SNP account as a personal piggy bank for ten years and nobody suspected a thing, certainly not his wife and party leader.
I wonder if there are many other organizations whose auditing and accounting is so lax that they didn't notice nearly half a million quid going missing?
It depends on the size of the organisation, but TBH There's more than a few small business owners who even after registering their companies as Ltd, still are either blind to, or ignore then responsibilities of what that means. I'd bet money that if the bills get paid, the staff get paid, and there's 'some sort' of trail that can account for expenses, there's lots of folks who are willing to look the other way, or just don't know what they're looking at when presented with a set of company accts. And If the main aim of that business isn't actually 'profit making' for which I'd lump in political parties, it's probs. makes embezzlement easier.
As I said, there was an additional £675,000, raised specifically to support independence that shouldn't have been in the party accounts at all yet there's now no trace of.
this was the original complaint that was investigated IIRC that led to the rest of it coming to light.
I just cannot get over how stupid the whole thing is. Mental illness? Some of the purchases are just bizarre or is it just hubris and a lack of accountability? ~simply no need to do this as they were very well off anyway
While its certainly possible that Sturgeon did not realise anything was amiss her reputation will forever be tainted by this
You can pick them up at the that discount store in Knightsbridge for £2,200 as well.
Idiot.
To be fair - if I came back from the antiques shop with those my wife would believe me if said they were a tenner!!
Having clicked on that link, HTF are they worth £2k+? Like you, I'd have said £10 in an antique shop.
lol no parking
I am 100% not trying to defend the man, nor even the party for its impressive lack of financial controls but this "she must have known" stuff is the same sort of shit that gets thrown at women when their husbands turn out to be paedophiles. As a general rule we trust our spouses, so less scrutiny goes into their actions than those of others. If you honestly believe that there's no way your wife could commit significant financial crime without you noticing your are either very controlling, hugely naive or single.
but this "she must have known" stuff is the same sort of shit that gets thrown at women when their husbands turn out to be paedophiles
While I agree with the sentiment, and this is a bunch of politicians who are probs only concerned that there's enough cash in the bank to do the things they want to do, and if that happens, then they probs have other stuff on their plates that's more pressing that making sure the expenses stand more than a cursory glance.
Won't stop the fact that she was the boss at the time, and this was her husband. She can claim as much as she wants that she was unaware, but folks will still make 2 and 2 equal 5
this "she must have known" stuff is the same sort of shit that gets thrown at women when their husbands turn out to be paedophiles
Only if they bought a 14 year old girl home with them.
If she knew what their household income was - and I'm not having it for a second that there's anybody who doesn't at least know the ball park of their spouses earnings - then its somewhat difficult to explain away over 200 grands worth of vehicles that are parked on your drive
Won't stop the fact that she was the boss at the time,
She was first minister not boss of the party
then its somewhat difficult to explain away over 200 grands worth of vehicles that are parked on your drive
The camper van was bought with party funds for party business is the excuse. Sturgeon never used it. Its perfectly possible she did not realise it was phoney / unauthorised. She was FM dealing with covid at the time and working ridiculous hours.
the Jag - high worth individual buys posh car. Why would she know he bought it was party cash not loans / leased / his cash?
Do any of you lot want to buy a bridge? I've got a lovely one for sale. I'll even throw in a lovely par of salt and pepper grinders
She was first minister not boss of the party
Amounts to the same thing, it's "her" party, The buck stops with her. It goes with the gig, I doubt she'd use that as an excuse, after all if she (of all people) had asked for a copy of the accounts, d'you think it wouldn't have been given to her?
the Jag - high worth individual buys posh car.
It's perfectly reasonable, and if it was the only thing, then absolutely, but there was fountain pens and jewelry boxes and kindles and ipads, and literally armfuls of Games consoles; the list is endless.
"Didn’t Nicola Sturgeon think it slight peculiar that her bald husband has bought two expensive Dyson hairdryers within the period of a few months? What was he drying?"
My suspicion is he's been buying a lot of this stuff for someone else. I don't think it's unreasonable to say it was a marriage of convenience for both of them
Why would she know he bought it was party cash not loans / leased / his cash?
If my wife had spent nearly half a million quid more than our combined household income, I reckon I'd have clocked it. I'd certainly be asking some questions about the constant stream of very expensive stuff arriving at home.
That's a lovely camper van dear. I'm presuming it didn't cost much? Did you get it in a cheap deal on eBay, the same as with your new Jag and all those nice watches?
Out of 2.5 million earned? ( guestimate)
As above - the camper was supposedly bought with party funds for party use. she was FM working daft long hours dealing with covid
Amounts to the same thing, it's "her" party,
no it does not. Its not how any political party works
The buck stops with her.
Well maybe but its simply not her responsibility. She was a workaholic FM dealing with covid. Investigating party funds would not be on her radar. There are various execs whose responsibility it was
My suspicion is he's been buying a lot of this stuff for someone else. I don't think it's unreasonable to say it was a marriage of convenience for both of them
Its certainly very bizarre some of the purchases and its certainly not clear how much time they spent together
this "she must have known" stuff is the same sort of shit that gets thrown at women when their husbands turn out to be paedophiles
Only if they bought a 14 year old girl home with them.
If she knew what their household income was - and I'm not having it for a second that there's anybody who doesn't at least know the ball park of their spouses earnings - then its somewhat difficult to explain away over 200 grands worth of vehicles that are parked on your drive
1. The camper was never parked in her drive.
2. She didn't have a driving license at the time - I expect her interest in the price of cars was even less than mine, which is pretty low! Clearly a jag is an expensive car, but I've employed someone on a lot less than he was who drove a very nice jag - don't know if it was as expensive as this.
3. The Jag was an 80k car - which probably isn't that unusual a thing for (a) a bloke earning £100k with no kids etc to squander their earnings on? (b) a couple with income of £300k. The unusual thing is he seems to have bought it with "cash" rather than on finance. The particularly dodgy thing is when he sold it he pocketed the cash.
4. As I understand it the Jag was sold before the camper was on the scene - so even it the camper was on the drive there were never 200k of vehicles there (or certainly not alleged to have been funded directly with party money).
5. If she said who owns the camper - the party accounts say they did.
6. Of course she knew the ball park of the household income - thats why its not suspicious, he could have afforded this lifestyle from their own earnings. This isn't like someone who's husband works part time as the cleaner at the local school but somehow is driving a brand new BMW with blacked out windows.
Now what made him do it? I've no idea - he was able to come up with £100k to help the party out with cash flow so he had access to cash. My entirely uninformed guess is he was pumping cash into investments and pensions to keep his tax bill low (which would be ironic given his party taxation policy!) and using the "company card" to buy stuff was easy / became a habit / felt like an entitlement.
The sentencing hearing will allow the crown to describe the facts but also for him to provide some degree of explanation to help mitigate the circumstances - that will be interesting.
no it does not. Its not how any political party works
Well maybe but its simply not her responsibility.
They were happy to present themselves as the 'power-couple' of Scottish politics, her the leader, him the chief-executive for years. There's a clear conflict of interests here, and there's many folks who're pointing out her particular "lack of curiosity" about the governance and financial oversight of the party she led. Chapman, the Treasurer resigned for goodness sake over a lack of clarity, and yet, still she did nought, and then out of the blue, she resigns in 2023, and then; would you adam and eve it..?
Even if you could say "technically, none of this was my responsibility" (despite being on the NEC for 20 years continously) you still look stupid saying so.
nd there's many folks who're pointing out her particular "lack of curiosity" about the governance and financial oversight of the party she led.
Once more - She was first minister in a very turbulent time working ridiculous hours. she should not be scrutinising her husbands nor the parties finances. she should be running the country
It's plausible that she might not have known, but this is their electorate's money donated not to enrich an individual but to improve the chances of the party.
We'll find out whether the electorate finds her and other senior people plausible in their denials; that's the real test in this
Don’t forget a lot of this happened pre-covid
she should not be scrutinising her husbands nor the parties finances
So that she's on the NEC for 20 years, and that finances is pretty much being front and centre of any committee like this, and being leader and spokesperson for the party in all that time, the fact that COVID happened gives her a handy excuse?
She'll bear some responsibility for this, even if just reputationly.
Once more - She was first minister in a very turbulent time working ridiculous hours.
Ah... the Boris Johnson defense?
You're very strident in your defense of the former leader of the political party you support. I wonder what you'd be saying if this was the leader of the Scottish Conservatives we were talking about here? 😉
She'll bear some responsibility for this, even if just reputationly.
She didn't stand for re-election, but her former constituency swung massively to the Greens. It's quite funny to look at the Glasgow electoral map and see this lone blob of green near the middle of it. I imagine if she had ran again it may have been an even bigger swing.
Her reputation is in tatters, which saddens me greatly as I was a very vocal supporter of her, not to mention the fact I was a regular donor to the SNP for a number of years. I'm patiently waiting for my turn with the fancy salt and pepper grinders!
I wonder what you'd be saying if this was the leader of the Scottish Conservatives we were talking about here?
well quite.
You're very strident in your defense of the former leader of the political party you support.
Point of order. I don't support the SNP and have never voted for them
this is their electorate's money
this is their electorate's money
Not quite true this money came from SNP members and donors including myself. A much smaller group than the SNP 's electorate.
Personally I didn't feel comfortable that the deputy leader of the party and the Chief Executive were married. When Nicola Sturgeon became leader Peter Murrell should have stepped down from his post imo.
She'll bear some responsibility for this, even if just reputationly.
Certainly. I said that several times. she is tainted by this for sure
Why would she know he bought it was party cash not loans / leased / his cash?
If my wife had spent nearly half a million quid more than our combined household income, I reckon I'd have clocked it.
Is that the right metric? Or is it - spent on average 15% of our combined incomes each year on "nice stuff"?
I wouldn't know a £50 fountain pen from a £1000 one or a £200 watch from a £2000 one. Nobody seems able to understand the £2000+ salt and pepper grinder. Probably everyone here has spent too much on electronic goods near christmas in a panic of "well i don't know what to get so get lots".
lol no parkingthis "she must have known" stuff is the same sort of shit that gets thrown at women when their husbands turn out to be paedophiles...
I think you intended to direct this comment to someone else.
No! Convert may have made the comment I first replied to but any suggestion that the camper van had a superficially reasonable cover story you've jumped on to suggest that its totally incredulous and by implication that she must have known and turned a blind eye.
Probably everyone here has spent too much on electronic goods near christmas in a panic of "well i don't know what to get so get lots".
This one was a right bastard to wrap....
Nicola Sturgeon's house is round the corner from mine. I saw the "tent" when I walked passed with the dog.
I remember thinking at the time it was a lot of bollocks, I'm disappointed to be proven wrong.
I'm an SNP voter and was a fan of Nicola Sturgeon, but like others I also thought the FM and party leader being married to the party chief executive was a potential conflict of interest.
Was Sturgeon aware or complicit? Given the Police spent 5 years investigating this and cleared her, but charged her husband, it seems fairly clear she couldn't have been criminally involved, but she will certainly suffer massive reputational damage.
They were happy to present themselves as the 'power-couple' of Scottish politics, her the leader, him the chief-executive for years.
I'm not sure anyone in Scotland outside the political elite knew who he was until this all blew up. Without looking them up - can you name the equivalent office bearers for the other parties?
I do agree there is probably a conflict of interest between the CEO and party leader being in bed together (ironically I'd have expected the conflict to be in the opposite direction!) but for all the joy of the other parties at this mess none seem to have explicitly stated that (a) their party rules would prohibit similar conflicts (b) that the electoral commission should be lobbying for legislative change to stop any such conflict.
Her culpability is no greater than any other member of the NEC for not having robust safeguards in place on spending.
It seems that Alba may have fallen foul of similar spending irregularities.
Interestingly one possible outcome of sentencing is the requirement for him to reimburse the SNP. Assuming he has the means, it would be ironic if the moment of the oppositions' glee resulted in the Indy campaign suddenly having £400K to spend again!
I wonder what lengths Murrell might have gone to in order to prevent someone who knew him from raising concerns and/or gaining access to the accounts.
I'm not sure anyone in Scotland outside the political elite knew who he was until this all blew up.
TBH I reckon that's true for most politicians let alone their spouses. Outside of the PM and perhaps the Chancellor, and maybe one or two notable exceptions I doubt most of the general public could pick out many MPs from a line-out. I can think of just one or two exceptions, Dennis Thatcher being one, and Cherie Blair who had her own career being another.
I'm not a routine follower of Scottish politics, but national coverage of the SNP conference (especially around the referendum) he was pretty much always nearby or by her side, and I can remember a newspaper (probs the guardian) photo of them at Wimbledon. I certainly knew who he was by sight if not name.
Her culpability is no greater than any other member of the NEC for not having robust safeguards in place on spending.
While that may be true technically, I don't think it passes the sniff test if I'm honest. If you are the head of Govt and on the NEC and a senior person in your party, and married to someone with significant financial responsibility in that same party you do have a duty to stick your nose in, even if its just so you can say that exact thing to a nosy journalist asking the question.
She's not facing criminal charges, and I'll bet any of the £400,000 that Murrell has told the cops endlessly that she had no idea and nothing to do with it, she still comes out of it looking stupid, had she not resigned this would've rightly been career death, and it's clearly why she resigned when she did.
and it's clearly why she resigned when she did.
Apart from its clearly not so as she resigned before this blew up having been burnt out
7 weeks...
Between her resignation and the cops arresting Murrell, and just 4 weeks in between her resignation (15th Feb) and his (18 Mar) becasue of the scandal blowing up.
That is a wild coincidence, don't you think?
