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Scotland Indyref 2
 

Scotland Indyref 2

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The Neanderthals of the Orange Order are threatening violence.

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Posted : 08/05/2017 11:31 pm
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Check the date...

We had the Scottish National Liberation Army raising its head around then too (and don't forget the 55 group if you want to dig up history).

****s on both sides. Don't let them define your side of the argument and don't assume that they define the other.


 
Posted : 09/05/2017 7:54 am
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Brilliant, a massive boost to the Yes campaign getting those Orange Farkwits on board the No campaign.


 
Posted : 09/05/2017 8:14 am
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The Neanderthals of the Orange Order are threatening violence.

We'll, at least it's in the right century 😉

Be good to see some different articles? on the vote analysis published by the Beeb. And I'm right in thinking the delay is nothing to do with the MSM but all to do with ES?

Staff conference today so plenty of spare time to mooch about the internet looking for different takes on the results.


 
Posted : 09/05/2017 8:27 am
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Brilliant, a massive boost to the Yes campaign getting those Orange Farkwits on board the No campaign.

You'd think, but I'm not convinced these ******* will be enough to tip the balance.

I mean, people actually voted them in!


 
Posted : 09/05/2017 8:40 am
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Ah well no need to worry about the Orange Order after all.

Looks like they are going to be packing out the churches every Sunday (unless there's a game on). The ministers will no doubt be delighted to teach them about the 11th commandment...

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4192/34438500561_ffaeb12562_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4192/34438500561_ffaeb12562_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 8:11 am
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I suppose a return to sectarianism is more likely since the divisive nature of Brexit, especially as it's morphed into the hardest possible Tory version of brexshit


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 8:17 am
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Divide and rule


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 8:19 am
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@Epic

That twitter account agrees that the BBC is biased. Not in the direction you think it is admittedly. FWIW I don't consider it (BBC) impartial, although l like to see proof before assuming an article has an unfair agenda, and also before believing what its trying to tell me.


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 8:22 am
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The SNP, the onky nationalist party that's not right wing. Somehow, according to its supporters. Le Pen has more left wing policies than Macron (£50bn austerity, labour law reforms, cut civil service by 120,000 ...)


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 8:25 am
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SNP planning meeting:

Brexit - didn't work
'Rainbow' Tories accusations - didn't work, people misunderstood and voted tory.
"rape clause" - seen through, maybe we should have got false offended a few years ago when the legislation was first proposed?
Whats left? - We haven't plumbed the divisive depths of sectarianism yet?

Why don't we accuse the other side of being a bunch of big orangemen while ignoring the pro IRA people we have as SNP politicians?

This can only end well! Run with it!


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 11:41 am
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eat_the_pudding - Member
...Why don't we accuse the other side of being a bunch of big orangemen while ignoring the pro IRA people we have as SNP politicians?..

I don't recall the IRA having marches through assorted cities of Scotland like the Orange Order does.

Can you name the SNP IRA politicians?


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 3:00 pm
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Just leave it out of the conversation either end. It's not useful.


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 3:16 pm
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Seosamh77 +1


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 3:47 pm
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+2


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 7:16 pm
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Sturgeon was left with rather a lot of egg on her face today attempting to mis-quote a leaked letter on fisheries post Brexit. How sad for her.


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 7:32 pm
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Oh look jambas trying to get a bite! 😆


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 8:15 pm
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@ jamba If that's a fact you should be able to empathise with her given your vast experience.


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 8:20 pm
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Correct Jamba -( your earlier comment) The SNP is the only nationalist party that I know of that is centrist, social democratic and espouses civic nationalism not blood and soil.
Something those of you that don't live here seem to have trouble understanding.

"It's not where we came from that's important, it's where we're going together."

Bashir Ahmed to the SNP conference.


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 8:21 pm
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Something those of you that don't live here seem to have trouble understanding.

I think he understands it, but chooses to ignore it and claim the opposite.


 
Posted : 10/05/2017 8:53 pm
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centrist, social democratic

While that is what they badge themselves, it isn't a description I recognise. They are more populist than anything else. They do less that is truly centrist and instead pick from both left and right to try and appeal across the spectrum. Left and right wing policies don't combine to make a centrist party.

civic nationalism not blood and soil

For the party in their current incarnation, yes. For many of their followers, the opposite seems to be the case. If sectarianism is rearing its ugly head again, its because the SNP and the associated movement have sown the seeds of division and hatred.

It's not where we came from that's important, it's where we're going together

Rather ironic for a party that has division as its primary objective.


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 9:10 am
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I don't recall the IRA having marches through assorted cities of Scotland like the Orange Order does.
Can you name the SNP IRA politicians?

How about Allan Casey, Parliamentary Assistant to SNP MSP Ivan McKee [url=http://] http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15102373.Revealed__picture_of_SNP_candidate_on_pro_IRA_march/ [/url]


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 9:40 am
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Parliamentary Assistant

Ah, a secretary.


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 9:42 am
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And former Council Candidate.

I used him as an example as it shows there are pro-IRA marches in Scotland as well as IRA supporters at higher levels within the SNP.

Then there is also SNP MSP John Mason who prefers the term "Freedom Fighters" rather than "Irish Murderers"


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 10:12 am
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John Mason

An unfortunate surname for one who holds such views....

There are pro republican marches in Scotland, there is an annual one near me in Ayr, but it's outnumbered massively by the other lot, and as Seosamh77 rightly points out, it's not really relevant to the independence discussion in general.

Thankfully, sectarianism is in general on the wane in Scotland, with the odd exception of some of society's less well brought up knuckle draggers, on both sides.


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 10:53 am
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I used him as an example as it shows there are pro-IRA marches in Scotland as well as IRA supporters at higher levels within the SNP.

not encountered any pro IRA marches in my time in Glasgow, I guess they have the idea, but it doens't get any further then the bar of molly malones.


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 1:34 pm
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grumpysculler - Member

For many of their followers, the opposite seems to be the case. If sectarianism is rearing its ugly head again, its because the SNP and the associated movement have sown the seeds of division and hatred.

Yet it would appear to be your side that carry out assaults and the recent packages sent to SNP offices. But then claiming that the SNP are sowing division by campaigning for indy and they are the root cause of the actions above shows that you have a rather one-eyed view anyway.


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 1:43 pm
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This sectarian stuff is embarrassing, knock it on the head and don't let the shite stirrers win by resorting to tit for tat.


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 2:00 pm
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lovewookie - Member
I used him as an example as it shows there are pro-IRA marches in Scotland as well as IRA supporters at higher levels within the SNP.
not encountered any pro IRA marches in my time in Glasgow,

You've not been looking hard enough though, there's not many, far less than orange marches(about 10% or so) but they do exist, they will argue they are republican however, but quite frankly that's bullshit.

Anyhow, republican, orange, we are talking about irrelevant fringe elements, and generally people that haven't a scooby, and enjoy the quasi miltaristic prancing about like bawbags. Best starve them the oxygen of publicity. They'll go away eventually.

I say this as someone that quite enjoys a good RA fest too! 😆 But come on, ye need to understand what it is, it's a piss up and a sing song, nothing more. Utterly irrelevant to politics in scotland.

So the OO have managed a few Councillors, fair enough, there's enough of them that they deserve some representation. We aren't going back to the days of old. Their time has long passed. And any thoughts of their being able to organise a terrorist resistance to an IS are utterly ridiculous, A few will spit the dummy, but they are sheep at best without an orginal thought in their head.


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 2:15 pm
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seosamh77 - Member
...So the OO have managed a few Councillors, fair enough, there's enough of them that they deserve some representation...

Good point. All this is about democracy after all.

grumpysculler - Member
centrist, social democratic
While that is what they badge themselves, it isn't a description I recognise. They are more populist than anything else. They do less that is truly centrist and instead pick from both left and right to try and appeal across the spectrum. Left and right wing policies don't combine to make a centrist party...

That's good in my opinion. Parties should be representative and not blindly follow some political ideology writ on stone.

As for division, what division? We're separate countries and we want control of ours. Seems to me a very successful campaign has been run to do this in our southern neighbour...


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 2:56 pm
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duckman - Member

Yet it would appear to be your side that carry out assaults and the recent packages sent to SNP offices.

But but but someone threw an egg at Jim Murphy!


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 3:06 pm
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Northwind - Member
But but but someone threw an egg at Jim Murphy!

...and totally fundimundilicated him. 🙂


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 4:52 pm
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We're separate countries and we want control of ours.

That's a matter of opinion. I don't think we are - it depends how you define a country.

Seems to me a very successful campaign has been run to do this in our southern neighbour...

A state breaking away from international treaties is somewhat different to a devolved region wanting to set up as a state. I don't agree with either.


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 7:31 pm
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grumpysculler - Member
We're separate countries and we want control of ours.
That's a matter of opinion. I don't think we are - it depends how you define a country.

Just like the UK does in its definition of itself in the UN.

As a union between 2 countries, England and Scotland, a principality, Wales, and a province, NI.

Scotland is a country and that's not a matter of opinion. We may be a de facto colony, but we are not a region.


 
Posted : 11/05/2017 8:58 pm
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After being sceptical about IRA support within the independence movement, what do I see today, but several mentions of Connolly's execution on 12 May 1916 on various independence threads on FB.

Why does Scotland's independence have to be polluted on both sides by Irish grudges? It is bugger all to do with them, and all to do with our democracy.


 
Posted : 12/05/2017 4:09 pm
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Bellendery adheres to no political boundaries


 
Posted : 12/05/2017 4:41 pm
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Im not sure that Sturgeon has changed much of anything shes said there will a decision on whether to hold one or not after 2018 then?

Makes sense anyway, I imagine that brexishambles will be fully exposed for all to see by then

saying that who knows what our (UKs) political situation will be by the end of the summer...?


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 3:25 pm
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Im not sure that Sturgeon has changed much of anything shes said there will a decision on whether to hold one or not after 2018 then?

She's trying to u-turn without u-turning. She's realised that the independence message is getting somewhat toxic, but if she goes off script too much then she'll lose her core support.

However, she's said that the Scottish people must be permitted to decide and that it is the will of the Scottish Parliament to hold a referendum. Yet now her and her cabinet are going to remove that choice for the Scottish people and ignore the will of Parliament? She's backed into a corner. Just another politician that can't be trusted. I suspect her time left isn't all that much more than May's.

She's also objecting to the DUP deal. I don't particularly like it so have some sympathy, but if Sturgeon had played her cards better then she could have had the SNP pulling the Tory strings and in a much better place to dictate Brexit terms. It would be Scotland getting a nice cash bung for things she doesn't care about like education and the NHS. A lot of SNP policies are quite conservative (little 'c') so the match isn't that bad it couldn't be managed. She could have had real power and put Scotland in the driving seat but again she backed herself into a corner.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 3:45 pm
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Grumpy - not at all. After the GE she said she would have a think on the result but the whole " indyref 2 put on back burner" is nothing more than a made up newspaper story.

Sturgeon is in a very strong position in Scotland with wins in all elections for years.; Nothing like May.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 3:51 pm
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I suspect her time left isn't all that much more than May's.

I'm sure May can only dream of having the kind of majority sturgeon commands, indeed she did, she thought she'd get that.

Zombie Maybot is a hollow shell of a PM, tarnishing the UK and her party, only on the job because no other tory wants that shit sandwich
Sturgeons still got plenty of spunk left in her!


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 3:55 pm
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I suspect her time left isn't all that much more than May's

What utter hokum.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 3:57 pm
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It would be Scotland getting a nice cash bung for things she doesn't care about like education and the NHS.

This is jamba levels of bollocks 😆


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 4:00 pm
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I don't even think Jamba could envision a scenario where Sturgeon propped up a Tory government.

Still as an idea its not completely without merit assuming your willing to abandon all your existing promises and political principles in order to retain power.

Someone like that would fit right in with the current government


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 4:05 pm
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grumpysculler - Member

if Sturgeon had played her cards better then she could have had the SNP pulling the Tory strings and in a much better place to dictate Brexit terms.

In which alternative universe?


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 4:19 pm
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I don't even think Jamba could envision a scenario where Sturgeon propped up a Tory government.

Perish the thought indeed.

Sturgeon is going nowhere and neither will her calls for Iny Ref 2, as Ruth Davidson says Sturgeon wakes up every morning thinking of how Scotland can be an Independent country.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 4:36 pm
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