Well in that context they don't recognise you as a countryHTH
Why do you think Scotland is not a country?
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom ]United Kingdom - Wiki[/url]
Worth a read, including the list of four countries which make up the UK......
I really don't know. Is the UK now the country consisting of former countries?
No it's a political union of existing countries forming a state.
I don't get why there is such hate for leaving the EU.
If Nichola has any sense (and she does) she'll be working hard on getting favourable comments from prominent European figures on how an independent Scotland would be welcome to join (or preferably remain) in the EU.
The more certainty the Scottish electorate have about likely terms and conditions of membership the better her chances of winning a vote.
The best bet would be a statement that Scotland would remain a member under current conditions. That's unlikely to happen though.
[quote=thv3 ]Why do you think Scotland is not a country?
Nothing to do with me, let's rewind:
[quote=thv3 ]a country that is currently in the EU and chose to remain
Scotland isn't a "country in the EU" in the way that is implied by that, as far as the EU is concerned it is a region
[quote=km79 ]I really don't know. Is the UK now the country consisting of former countries?
No it's a political union of existing countries forming a state.
Exactly!
As for border controls, the Schengen zone includes non-EU members Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein. There are no permanent border controls between those countries and their EU neighbours, although there may be random customs checks.
It would be a superb irony if the EU insisted that rUK sign up to Shengen if they want to remain in the trading zone. They could easily do that but rUK would be unwilling to sign up to it under a Tory government.
Failing that two countries can reach their own agreement not to have border controls. That's the current arrangement between the UK and Ireland. There's no reason why such an agreement couldn't be reached between Scotland and rUK.
Failing that the rUK can install their own controls at the border if they like.
Scotland isn't a "country in the EU" in the way that is implied by that
1. Scotland is a country.
2. Scotland is part of the UK.
3. UK is currently part of the EU.
Therefore Scotland is currently in the EU, although not represented as a separate member state, instead it is represented by the UK the same as England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
as far as the EU is concerned it is a region
According to who? Where?
thv3 » Why do you think Scotland is not a country?Nothing to do with me, let's rewind:
thv3 » a country that is currently in the EU and chose to remain
Scotland isn't a "country in the EU" in the way that is implied by that, as far as the EU is concerned it is a region
Can you just stop this silly semantic arguing. The rules can be changed with the stroke of a pen if the EU feels like it. That's what Nichola will be working for behind the scenes.
It would be a superb irony if the EU insisted that rUK sign up to Shengen if they want to remain in the trading zone. They could easily do that but rUK would be unwilling to sign up to it under a Tory government.
Of course they will and we'll sign up. The tory government campaigned for in. Boris is a complete europhile.
[quote=donald ]Can you just stop this silly semantic arguing. The rules can be changed with the stroke of a pen if the EU feels like it.
Regarding Scotland being a member of the EU as a country in its own right (and therefore an entity the EU can negotiate with)? I think that would require a bit more than the stroke of a pen, no matter how cynical you might be about the power wielded by unelected beurocrats
God no Shudders
#refereduum threads can never die
Bet I am over the fear by page 10 😉
Can plebs like us petition the EU online like we can for the UK parliament? I.e. petition.parliament.uk
Of course they will and we'll sign up. The tory government campaigned for in. Boris is a complete europhile.
Yep, the only difference Voting Out will achieve is a recession, a change of PM and loss of our rebate. Most likely scenario is we pay more to stay in, lose 73 MEPs, keep immigration unchanged and have to follow all the same EU laws (only now have to say over them having lost our MEPs).
Aracer, Donald - I think the rules are probably clear but irrelevant. Article 50 withdrawal is new territory and if one "region" was breaking away at the same time that would be equally new territory. If they wanted Scotland in, they would decide that in this special case the rules allow it, and if they didn't strangely enough they wouldn't. An opinion would be developed accordingly.
Now they might want Holyrood just to annoy Westminster. Or Spain might not want to set a precedent - but ways might be found around that.
Who knows? But Nicola is off to find out.
Scottish Government: "Can we have another referendum?"
UK Government: "No, **** off, you've already had one"
End of thread.
Scottish Government: "Can we have another referendum?"UK Government: "No, **** off, you've already had one"
End of thread.
cue music as scottish opportunist anti democratic woman, paints face blue and changes her name to william wallace, muttering you will never take our freedom.
I'm pretty sure telling people how the shizzle is gonna go down is called a dictatorship love, you know its ok to vote as long as I can ignore the result
good luck with that.ninfan - Member
Scottish Government: "Can we have another referendum?"UK Government: "No, **** off, you've already had one"
End of thread.
I'm pretty sure telling people how the shizzle is gonna go down is called a dictatorship love, you know its ok to vote as long as I can ignore the result
They did vote - and decided to stay in the UK
you were even warned before the vote - by their own leaders - that it was a once in a generation, perhaps even once in a lifetime, opportunity - that quote alone, by both Salmond and Sturgeon, undermines any demand for another one, the UK government can rightfully dismiss any calls to revisit the issue with that answer.
You lost, get over it.
You lost, get over it.
Not sure if you saw the news, but I'm not exactly sure Ms Sturgeon is now seeing it that way.
You lost, get over it.
It's far from over, you won't even know what you've won for at least 2 years, maybe up to 10.
I think Scotland will be long gone by then.
Why wouldn't Boris and the Tories be up for casting Scotland adrift?
YoKaiser - Member
Why wouldn't Boris and the Tories be up for casting Scotland adrift?
Never underestimate Boris, the ultimate opportunist with a classical scholar's perspective. 🙂
He may very well see the advantages of an independent Scotland in the EU and having an open border with England. He's a man who like to have his cake and eat it.
An independent England out of the union ultimately will be for the better. Whether being out of the EU is another matter, because I'm not sure the Commonwealth is all that keen to adopt its previous role.
An independent England out of the union ultimately will be for the better.
How do you know?
An independent England out of the union ultimately will be for the better.
Surely you just want in Independent London / bits of the SE (all the pro EU zones) and the rest of the country can sort itself out and hang a big "no blacks, no irish, no dogs"sign on the front door 😉
good luck with that.ninfan - Member
I'm pretty sure telling people how the shizzle is gonna go down is called a dictatorship love, you know its ok to vote as long as I can ignore the result
They did vote - and decided to stay in the UKyou were even warned before the vote - by their own leaders - that it was a once in a generation, perhaps even once in a lifetime, opportunity - that quote alone, by both Salmond and Sturgeon, undermines any demand for another one, the UK government can rightfully dismiss any calls to revisit the issue with that answer.
You lost, get over it.
Surely you just want in Independent London
Looks like someone figured it out
[quote=igm ]Aracer, Donald - I think the rules are probably clear but irrelevant. Article 50 withdrawal is new territory and if one "region" was breaking away at the same time that would be equally new territory...
At which point you come back to the timescale thing I mentioned above. It doesn't appear to be something the EU is particularly thinking about given they're encouraging us to start the 2 year clock ticking - meanwhile there isn't even a proposal for another referendum on the table. I'm not quite sure what the timescale was last time from them deciding to have one, but IIRC there was going to be 18 months from the referendum to independence.
Of course it also raises interesting questions if Scotland can effectively ignore the referendum result which the EU leaders appear to consider to be binding on the rest of us.
It seems lots of people in Scotland want another referendum - I agree, it's just that I'd like a vote too, and the question I want asking again has nothing to do with the Union between England and Scotland.
It seems lots of people in Scotland want another referendum
I can quite believe it - about 45% of them 😆
I see no problem with Scotland having a 2nd go at the Indy Referundum
As long as everyone gets a 2nd go at in/out
Aracer - yep
They've got a pretty good case, they were told vote yes (to the UK) to stay in the EU, now they find they've been duped....
they were told vote yes (to the UK) to stay in the EU,
I don't remember that being on the ballot paper and everyone knew the Brexit vote was coming. Personally, one of the reasons I voted no in the indyref was I didn't see the point of swapping Westminster rule for Brussels rule.
You might want to check your timelineseveryone knew the Brexit vote was coming.
Do the Scots think that the EU would want them??
Do the Scots think that the EU would want them??
They already have them, so staying in the EU is just maintaining the status quo.....
Here we go again. Fresh from their crusade against brown people, fellow Europeans trying to make a better life for themselves and those that pray a bit funny, the bigots attention can now return to the Scottish people. It's nearly been a whole 2 years, let's get that xenophobia for your other neighbors back on display.
Suspect there's less appetite than you might think for another indyref even within the SNP - it's an expensive and exhausting business.
That said if they explore all the other options on the table (e.g reverse greenland, etc) and come up with nothing then they're not really doing their job properly if they don't do their utmost to keep Scotland in the EU.
ninfan - MemberScottish Government: "Can we have another referendum?"
UK Government: "No, **** off, you've already had one"
End of thread.
given they don't have a majority in our goverment they would have to get holyrood's approval first which I'm doubtful they would.
it also raises interesting questions if Scotland can effectively ignore the referendum result which the EU leaders appear to consider to be binding on the rest of us.
Sorry didnt Scotland just vote to stay in the EU?
Whatever we say its a complicated issue
the real problem is it could become a massive constitutional crises if Holyrood has a vote and it says leave the UK and the EU accepts
Its hard to see a set of circumstances where we have a civil war with Scotland or we turn it into a new Northern Ireland - ignore the will of the people and impose it with superior military force-
None if us have a clue but i will be very surprised if they dont petition for a ne vote, pretty surprised if Westminster agrees, Not That surprised if they ignore it and then after than I have no idea what happens but it won't be anything like, some of, the simplistic scribbles on here[ not aimed at aracer]
"They already have them, so staying in the EU is just maintaining the status quo....."
Not really, they joined as part of the UK not as an independent country.
If England and Wales secede from the United Kingdom that would work.
aracer - MemberIt seems lots of people in Scotland want another referendum - I agree, it's just that I'd like a vote too, and the question I want asking again has nothing to do with the Union between England and Scotland.
😆 so you're willing to drag us down with you too out of spite.
good luck with that.
Judging by the front page of today's Daily Record and the tone of the articles in The Scotsman and The Herald I think we might see much more pro-independence rhetoric from the mainstream media this time around.
given they don't have a majority in our goverment they would have to get holyrood's approval first which I'm doubtful they would.
You do realise the greens are pro independence?
