I'll bet you are wrong on that Scotroutes. 🙂 5 months till the holyrood election and they will / should make independence the centre point with a ref in the next 6 months to year
If they don't do that they are out anyway and the party will split
Tj, there is no way there will be a legally binding referendum within a year. It's just not going to happen.
Snp may run some run some non uk gov authorised referendum, but all the no vote need to do is not bother to turn up and it would lack all legitimacy.
But as I say, if you think we'll have independence in 5 years take my bet..
Just for clarity..I'd probably vote yes (I previously voted no). Just think your timescales are pie in sky
I’ll bet you are wrong on that Scotroutes. 🙂 5 months till the holyrood election and they will / should make independence the centre point with a ref in the next 6 months to year
If they don’t do that they are out anyway and the party will split
May is key, this is why the Unionists are winding up their 'messages'. You've only to see how many bots are in action on Twitter and the Tory Press are moving in too. Once the New Year is out of the way, they'll start to increase their activity and we'll see Project Fear 2.0.
Brexit has taken the better part of 4 years, yet somehow Scottish independence would take less? Let’s not forget the SNPs process is leaving the UK to then quickly return to the EU. That is way more moving parts than Brexit.
Brexit has taken the better part of 4 years, yet somehow Scottish independence would take less? Let’s not forget the SNPs process is leaving the UK to then quickly return to the EU. That is way more moving parts than Brexit.
EU would have Scotland back happily
Brexit was putting up barriers between UK & eu- something no country has negotiated in a trade deal before, Scotland rejoin g would be far far less acrimonious
There's also a handy precedent been set regards Scotland & rUKs relationship, with the NI
May is key, this is why the Unionists are winding up their ‘messages’. You’ve only to see how many bots are in action on Twitter and the Tory Press are moving in too. Once the New Year is out of the way, they’ll start to increase their activity and we’ll see Project Fear 2.0.
The thing is that we will not see Brexit in it's full glory come May so for me project fear 2.0 is neither here nor there (anything coming from the tories/tory media is background noise and I honestly think that brexit will be a complete shambles) Never voted for indyref the last time and will almost certainly vote for it this time (Plenty other small countries are successful) Although the Scottish parliament has its faults I do think that the government try to do right by the Scottish people whereas Westminster (the tories) only seem to want your vote and then literally do what they want and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
^ that’s pretty much where I’m at too.
EU would have Scotland back happily
This was the message from the EU during the Brexit talks to weaken UKs position. I personally don’t think it’s as easy as the SNP would let you think.
There’s also Spain‘s position on this, which only recently changed, however depending on the weakest leader the Spanish government has seen in its short democracy seems rather risky, as he is known for flip flopping and playing both sides without batting an eye. His only redeeming quality as a leader is being tall and good looking. The position of the other major part (PP) is that Scotland would have to go through the whole process as a new nation.
The SNP will fail on the currency issue, Andrew Neil burst the bubble very easily on the Spectator TV interview
The worst part for the SNP was when he pointed out to the interviewee that others were now at the top table making up policies that run a coach and horses through the more sensible aspects of his report
tpbiker - I never bet for money. forfeit?
The thing for the SNP is that the pressure to have an all out push for independence will become intolerable after a May victory. They have to move and move quickly or else the party will split or otherwise be badly damaged.
Big and Daft - I too want to hear good answers to the currency issues
The SNP will fail on the currency issue, Andrew Neil burst the bubble very easily on the Spectator TV interview
Brexit has shown that it really doesnt matter, people vote when their head not their heart, the more people like Neil condescend, the more opinion hardens.
Indy is polling way higher than brexit ever did
-That's all thanks to Johnson & Brexit
Neither of which are going away any time soon. (there's years of trade talks with the EU, USA etc to come all easily used by the indy cause_- see also fall out from covid)
How the SNP go about getting a vote is what matters
tjagain
I too want to hear good answers to the currency issues
I couldn't give a hoot what currency we use initially. 😆 longer term the people will decide.
kimbers
-That’s all thanks to Johnson & Brexit
And covid, in fairness, be interesting where the polls lie after mass vaccination, that'll tell a crucial story.
And covid, in fairness, be interesting where the polls lie after mass vaccination, that’ll tell a crucial story.
Yeah memories are short but the economic fallout from covid will be hard, hopefully things will bounce back quickly & that could coincide with may elections
Think the reality is that France would very much like Scotland back in the EU so the SNP have a surprisingly strong hand to play on indy if they can hold their nerve and unity. The Tories have turned England into a pariah state. Welcoming Scotland as an EU member surrounds England and puts France back in the driving seat of the EU agenda. I voted no to independence last time on the basis that Spain would not allow a small “break away” nation easy access to the EU. I’ll be voting yes this time.
I think Scotland will be have voted to become independent in 5 years. I think NS is walking a fine line between the realisation that she has been in power a long time/keeping the more impatient nationalists happy/ allowing Brexit to hit home. The Tory majority isn't going anywhere soon and nor is the particular flavour of it's leadership, so support for the idea of getting us away from them will stay high. She needs to maintain support in the face of what will be a huge media campaign.
Brexit has taken the better part of 4 years, yet somehow Scottish independence would take less? Let’s not forget the SNPs process is leaving the UK to then quickly return to the EU. That is way more moving parts than Brexit.
Most of that time has been spent on bull crap internal politics.
If, and it’s a big if, there is a legally binding referendum AND and unarguable decisive majority in favour. It would take far less time to match the volume of work towards Brexit. Even with all the flaws of Scottish Governance.
Success in all parts of achieving Indy for me, start with a decisive majority in favour. Without that I’d expect a shit show of wrangling and bull shit.
Big and Daft – I too want to hear good answers to the currency issues
Three choices post independence; Sterling, Euro or own.
All will have issues, but this is something to be decided/planned once we're won the vote.
Once the vote is won, then a timetable needs to be worked out - no point handcuffing ourselves before.
Three choices post independence; Sterling, Euro or own.
Not if we rejoin eu.
Three choices post independence; Sterling, Euro or own.
There are no choices. If Scotland wants to join the eu it has to have it’s own currency first and then has to have the euro.
Once the vote is won, then a timetable needs to be worked out – no point handcuffing ourselves before.
Now that sounds familiar, we want to rip up the status quo, we don't have any firm plans for after the vote but trust us it will be great.
That approach worked out well for Brexit didn't it.
Sweden are in the EU without having the Euro
A similar fudge could be managed for Scotland, though ultimately I imagine they'd join the euro.
If SNP are planning for it now the currency issue is just another political hurdle and learning from brexit, can be dismissed as 'project fear' and people will ignore it.
(tho you'd hope the SNP wouldn't be as dishonest as the brexiteers, as with brexit, long term this dishonesty poisons the country)
The problem with Brexit was that it promised contradictions. 100% sovereignty and unlimited access to the world whilst having one way freedom of movement. The fundamentals of what they wanted were never clarified.
In the case of an IS the general direction we want to go is already clarified. We want to be a small nation that is part of a larger trading bloc and we accept the benefits and limitations that brings.
You can't compare Brexit and Independence. In one case they're trying to decide where the hell they are going and the other they are deciding how to get there.
Highland household here all voting for independence next time. Lots of friends who weren't up for it last time are now.
Absolutely no truck with the break from Europe - not being an international team player - and the apeing of USA Politics perceived at Westminster. Unregulated Capitalism is also now a proven failure and while I don't want to go flying to the extreme left some big problems in society need to be tackled that aren't being tackled. And I'm not talking about immigrants.....
5th elephant - you forget that Scotland owns 9% of the £
The SNP needs a coherent policy on post independence money
5th elephant – you forget that Scotland owns 9% of the £
And? Scotland needs it’s own currency to join the eu. 100% of it.
Not that I think that matters. It’s just stuff to sort out.
In the case of an IS the general direction we want to go is already clarified. We want to be a small nation that is part of a larger trading bloc and we accept the benefits and limitations that brings.
+1
Scotland needs it’s own currency to join the eu.
Is this an actual fact or just an assumption? Genuine question.
Is this an actual fact or just an assumption? Genuine question.
In order to join the Euro, a countries currency must first be tied to the ERM for two years. So, in theory, that rules Scotland out. However, Brexit shows that the EU can be flexible with rules when it suits them. This flexibility could also be used to help Scotland (re)join the EU. I guess that the sooner Scotland applied, the easier that would be as there will have been little divergence.
Is this an actual fact or just an assumption? Genuine question.
It’s a fact as far as facts go in a negotiation (see scotroutes). There are numerous economic conditions that need to be met that need a central bank with it’s own currency.
I’d be surprised if a country has joined the eu without it’s own currency. It’s pretty fundamental to being a country.
tpbiker – I never bet for money. forfeit?
And I only bet for cash...although in 5 years if we are independent I will gladly come on here and proclaim your superior knowledge on the subject, if you will do the same if we aren't..
The challenge was originally for epicycle, but I see he hasn't taken me up in it either!
That approach worked out well for Brexit didn’t it.
Yeah, but this will be the easiest deal in history.
We want to be a small nation that is part of a larger trading bloc and we accept the benefits and limitations that brings.
Wow, vote winning slogan right there.
Utter tosh, the SNP is doing exactly what the Brexiteers did, they are selling a pipe dream Scotland will be better off on its own, able to make it's own decisions without having to ask permission. No proper discussion post vote, no road map, vague promises about rejoinjing the EU (completely uncharted waters and if I remember from last time a lot of gross assumptions the EU flatly refuted like being able to stay in the EU, not having to apply to join).
The only difference is I do believe some of the SNP are doing it because they believe in it as opposed to the Brexiteers who did it for personal greed and advancement.
No one will be voting either way whilst Boris and his ilk are in Westminster.
Scotland can't join the EU with the £ as it's currency.
So is it Merks and bawbee's or the euro for EU membership.
Until you can answer that question EU membership is a pipedream
The SNP needs a coherent policy on post independence money
Before or after asking for a referendum?
Utter tosh, the SNP is doing exactly what the Brexiteers did, they are selling a pipe dream Scotland will be better off on its own, able to make it’s own decisions without having to ask permission.
No, that's utter tosh.
Brexiteers said that we could have access to any market we wanted while keeping 100% sovereignty.
No one I have heard arguing for independence has said that we will be 100% sovereign and have unlimited access to other markets. If you have then please post a link.
No one will be voting either way whilst Boris and his ilk are in Westminster.
Aye, Sturgeon needs something other than Plan A 🙂
OK, I'll ask another way. How did you vote last time and are you likely to change your vote next time (whenever that is)? I'm seeing a bit of No-to-Yes on this thread and just trying to get some balance.
big_n_daft
Free Member
Scotland can’t join the EU with the £ as it’s currency.So is it Merks and bawbee’s or the euro for EU membership.
Don't really see much problem with either tbh.
I dont think the euro would be that badly received by voters?
King Charles III soon, I think having his mug on the currency might well put a lot of people off it too!
But still, if a fudge can be found for Sweden on currency, one can be found for Scotland, surely?
kimbers
Full Member
I dunt think the euro would be that badly received by voters?
Dunno whether it would or not. But the narrative of it's imminent collapse will be met with some skepticism this time round I think...
OK, I’ll ask another way. How did you vote last time and are you likely to change your vote next time (whenever that is)?
My wife and I moved to Scotland in 2004, live in rural Aberdeenshire and couldn't contemplate moving back. We voted No last time but would now seriously consider voting Yes. I have reservations about the SNP tendency to centralisation and would need convinced on monetary issues but we need to get away from BoJo and his bunch of clowns. NS has shown more convincing leadership and responsibility over CoVid. I think Scotland has the potential to be a more equitable country.
Don’t really see much problem with either tbh.
So why isn't one or the other a clear SNP policy seeing as rejoining the EU is?
But still, if a fudge can be found for Sweden on currency, one can be found for Scotland, surely?
Own currency, own central bank
Are you asking for a policy of Merks and bawbee's? Why not state it?
I think Scotland has the potential to be a more equitable country.
As do all countries, but you know, it's "civic", and by "the people of Scotland"
Looks like snp is moving (slowly) onto the Central bank & currency thing...
