And yet we’re not even achieving that. We’re effectively a one party state in a system that was seemingly designed to prevent that from ever happening. I’ve lost count of how many opposition leaders there have been in the last term never mind since SNP took power.
Which would suggest that it's the usual suspects that are the issue, just having a northern office under the same name isn't working, thats quite obvious.
I think it's only Independence that will change that outlook. For years the best politicians have headed south to Westminster, that would stop.
Yep I agree with all points. My point about one party is that SNP has held power for longer than I would consider healthy, I'd be far happier seeing coalition governments again to get a truly representative parliament. But again that comes back to having a decent opposition.
Our politics are broken as well, just in a very different way.
In some ways i would agree squirrelking over 10 myears fgovernments become complacent and run out of ideas. Except this hasn't really happened in my eyes- when Sturgeon took over she changed the path quite radically and refreshed the government well. I am happy she gets one more term with a thumping majority so we can escape the dysfunctional UK. a UK that has been dysfunctional for 40+ years and a Westminster that has done so much harm to the people of this country.
I’d be far happier seeing coalition governments again to get a truly representative parliament.
The SNP are in a coalition with the Green Party at the moment
No they are not. no formal coalition
Last coalition was Lib/Lab wasn't it? Long time ago.
We have had labour governments ( I think) Lab / Lib coalition. SNP minority governments and snp majority governments
The SNP minority government there were coalition talks with the Greens but it never actually happened.
It might have changed over the years, but the SNP was put together for one reason, independence, they had members who were on left and members who were on the right, and those inbetween, i'd say that if independence arrives, then the SNP will more than likely break up into more representative parties.
The gift that keeps on giving
This must be worth a few votes. "It's how it is and it's how it's going to be"
This is the message from the Tory benches in Westminster to Scotland - get back in your box and shut up. Disgraceful. https://twitter.com/fr4ser/status/1306237705123225601?s=20
Why do the Tories insist on making Sturgeons job easier?
They neither understand nor care about scotland and its politics. Johnsons government are the best thing for scots independence that i have ever seen.
Next Holyrood election i will probably do something I have never done before. lend my vote to the SNP and try to persuade others to do so as well. I want that thumping SNP majority so we can get our independence and get on with being a normal social democratic small european country and escape the madness of Westminster and its delusions of grandeur .
Last independence referendum i was badly conflicted for two reasons. I am a brit and I did not want to abandon the north of England. This time around i will have no such qualms
Why do the Tories insist on making Sturgeons job easier?
Job? Sturgeon keeps repeating that she wants a Section 30 order before any referendum. While the Tories hold a majority they are in no need to grant one and while Indy is polling high they have no desire to grant one.
I think you are wrong on Sturgeon dragging her heels - but i think there is that tendency in the party. Sturgeon IMO is right to wait until the polls show a big yes majority and she is by nature cautious. who is right we will see after May. If there are not strong moves then using all available means then you will be right and the SNP wrecked.
The tories really are the gift that keeps on giving. "scottish secretary" claiming Sturgeon is producing different advice just to be difficult and making false claims about Scottish government ministers.
Any have an opinion on the Scottish National Investment Bank?
Interesting concept but I don’t how good an idea it is.
And yet we’re not even achieving that. We’re effectively a one party state in a system that was seemingly designed to prevent that from ever happening. I’ve lost count of how many opposition leaders there have been in the last term never mind since SNP took power.
And an 80 seat majority on the same vote share down south is what exactly?
Or is it that you're just a Unionist?
Not sure if I would describe it as the settled will of the Scottish people yet but...
So Johnson is doing a good job
I don’t normally do over the top political posts as I think they add nothing worthwhile
But
BloHard and the ** he surrounds himself with is a * of the highest **** order and can go * his own * the absolute * * *
Added nothing but it’s improved my mood
The only issue I have with a new vote is we are at a point in time where everything benefits the yes vote, So its not surprising that 58% right now would vote for Independence.
I'd rather have some time for reflection..no covid, maybe not the worst government in Westminster we've ever had, and see how brexit pans out.
Decisions like this should not be made spur of the moment, which given the huge swing in polling recently suggests is the case.
it's always been the case nothing will happen till after the scottish elections, hopefully covid under control by then, well or atleast starting to be with vaccination being rolled out.
Agree that will be interesting to see if there's a swing back and by how much.
And an 80 seat majority on the same vote share down south is what exactly?
Er, fairly predictable in the FPTP model. Our system is supposed to mitigate against such strong governments.
Or is it that you’re just a Unionist?
Oh noes he called me a Yoon!
FWIW no, I'm not. I'd rather not go full independence because I think making borders smaller is no cause for celebration but present conditions in the UK don't give me any confidence that it won't happen anyway. I think we really are better together but only when we all have an equal chance to administer our own affairs and certainly not when we are determined to cut off our neighbours. I can't see that happening any time soon and I would like my daughter to grow up with the same opportunities I had. I couldn't give a stuff about all the nationalist nonsense that goes with the indy movement but I have equal disdain for the similar Unionist drivel. Nationalism of any shape is poison and has no place in an educated world.
But seriously, grow up, the playground insults are just sad. People have different opinions, deal with it.
There's something I've wondered about. Say that, either through incompetence or because it's what Dominic Cummings wants, the Brexit trade deal talks collapse and in January the UK ends up on no deal terms when trading with the EU.
Obviously this is probably going to have a negative effect on a great many people in the UK. And it seems equally likely that this would give support for Scottish independence another massive boost.
However, what could happen if Scotland gained independence while the UK was in that state? If Scotland joined the EU then wouldn't there have to be a hard border between Scotland and the UK, bringing with it a lot of disruption to Scotland's main trading partner? Would the main alternative involve negotiating a deal with the UK and not joining the EU, leaving Scotland more closely tied to the UK than many would like, and still isolated from the EU?
It's no surprise that a failed Brexit trade deal is going to be an all round shit show but I would like to understand how it would interact with the issue of Scottish independence.
If England wants to isolate themselves with closed borders that's their choice, no-one else wants closed borders.
However, what could happen if Scotland gained independence while the UK was in that state? If Scotland joined the EU then wouldn’t there have to be a hard border between Scotland and the UK, bringing with it a lot of disruption to Scotland’s main trading partner?
In short yes - the scotland / england boarder would become the external EU boarder and as such would either need an England / EU deal to remain open otherwise its full customs checks
seosamh77
If England wants to isolate themselves with closed borders that’s their choice, no-one else wants closed borders.
That doesn't mean that a hard border between Scotland and the UK wouldn't affect Scotland, whether Scotland wanted it or not. But it seems that the options in the no deal Brexit/Scottish independence scenario are either open borders with the EU and a hard border with the UK, or vice-versa.
And that's Englands choice, I'm no fussed either way. we'll find out in january.
See the Irish border shitshow? That'll be us. But worse probably
Not really YGH - there is no international treaty that is like the GFA and local cross boarder stuff is not as critical I do not think so similar but less complicated. many less roads crossing the border as well
The thing is, a sealed border should never happen, because it's almost as bad news for England as it is for Scotland, and it's bad for Wales and NI too. HOWEVER. A border in the irish sea should never happen. And turning Kent into a lorry park should never happen. And leaving the EU with no deal should never happen. So, I've less faith in mutual self-interest and believing things will happen just because they're obviously the only good option than I used to.
Before indyref one, if Westminster had said "If Scotland gains independence, we'll infect everyone in England with cholera so that it spreads into Scotland, independence will kill millions of people" I'd have said it was just crazy talk pre-vote and would never come to anything. These days, I'd probably start digging a well.
I can’t see that happening any time soon and I would like my daughter to grow up with the same opportunities I had.
Well Brexit has already ****ed that big time.
My kids can't just upsticks and get a job in Germany like I did, nor be able to do the 3 international jobs I had (based out of the UK either).
For our kids, we need to be back in the EU, and Scottish independence is the only game in town IMO.
Another gift for Independence
It's a good possibility that a UK wide vote would see a higher "yes" vote for iS, the direction of travel has always been to niggle and hack off in the true tradition of ABE
Aye, we should know our place instead.
The ABE mentality is fairly rare these days tbh.
Nice deflection big n daft! Still:at least our slightly better hospitals will take more care of your one eye.
ABW is more relevant than ABE
Despite my place or birth and current residence, I’d completely forgotten ABE was a thing.
Was it ever?
Only in sport have I seen it. Been on the wrong end of anti english predjudice a time or two but that is from the dimwit end of the scale not mainstream thinking and not seen any anti english sentiment for 20 years. the " our friends and neighbours" line from the SNP has removed the legitimacy of anti english sentiment IMO and reduced it greatly.
ABE is pretty strong in Oz still.
See also "Anyone but Liverpool", "Anyone but Man Utd" etc etc etc.
so the latest yougov not looking so hot for tories
thats 60% pro-indy , and holyrood elections 6mths away
https://twitter.com/80_mcswan/status/1320819105977536512
constitutional showdown incoming
Its okay though, BoJo has put Gove in charge of keeping the Union together.
I've always been pro union but they really are making it hard to maintain this position! I've been able to justify my stance (despite current Tory gov) as thinking independence is a long term solution to a short term problem. But Tory gov is now feeling less a less like a short term problem and a new English centric way of life.
constitutional showdown incoming
It's irrelevant. If Boris won't back down over such an issue as school meals why do you think for a second he'll back down over a second Indy vote?
But yeah, if there was a vote tomorrow yes would win. They'd get my vote as well.
If Boris won’t back down over such an issue as school meals why do you think for a second he’ll back down over a second Indy vote?
It's perhaps not the best of comparisons but you're right Boris is not a democrat and I don't think he will agree to a referendum when he might well lose it. It is a problem for the SNP and the wider Yes movement what comes after yet another mandate is rejected, and Holyrood powers are reduced by the internal market bill?
Interesting times ahead.
