[Closed] Running.

Cool!
I was pleased to get a pb in 5k on Tues esp. off the back of 20 miles on Sunday. Quads have felt pretty beat up this week though!
Off for a short gentle run after the tdf highlights.

🙂

My calves and the sides of my knees are quite tired today. I was going to use the ride back from the station as a short hard effort tonight but I'm not sure now, I might be better spinning and doing something targetted tomorrow.

I'm training for next year's London Marathon, I'm currently sat at home with knackered shins. 🙁

Here is a pic of me fell running last week.

I was doing OK at that point but got lost 30 or 40 minutes later in thick clag and ran 2.2 miles extra on a 9 mile race coming in 6th from last!

[img] [/img]

just started again after not running for ages, it always ends up in knee aches and pains for me, however did my 1st run on monday morning 6km and another 4km this evening
so far all good and enjoying the quick fitness fix it gives, also did a tabata workout this afternoon (press ups sit ups assisted chin ups squats) and my body hurts like it has never hurt before.

...just started again after not running for ages...did my 1st run on monday morning 6km and another 4km this evening...and my body hurts like it has never hurt before.

(ignoring the tabata thing)

i'm just joining the dots...

That's not really tabata training is it?

The big news in my running is that i'm officially giving up on flat shoes.

had them for 6 months now I think, and overall I've been pretty disappointed, I get all sorts of hip and bum pain that I don't get with cushioned shoes, and I can't help thinking that they didn't help when I twisted my ankle. (no support) but more of a pain is that I'm really slow. I can run at 7.5mins/mile in normal shoes, where I can't really do better than just over 8mins/mile in flats. Rubbish.

I think it's because I'm used to cushioned shoes. I don't heel strike anyway, but flats just hurt too much (for me)

soz boring.

Oh no emsz - you'll never be a good runner if you don't jump on the barefoot band wagon... I'm going to send you loads of positive thoughts to see if it can help.

Thanks Yeti (missed you, hon) 😀

That's interesting, emsz. I'd have thought someone as light as you would have had fewer problems with flat shoes.. I've not really had any. Then again I started from not much more than scratch with my flats, whereas you were already a good runner with your previous shoes, maybe switching is harder than starting.

Having said that, after my run last night my legs are still quite battered, and I was wondering if I'd done it with more cushioning I'd have been able to keep up a good pace for longer. I'll try my old shoes on the next long one.

I think foot strike is the real issue rather than cushioning anyway.

No worries. Thinking is the new training.

I've even started thinking about things whilst I sleep.

Before I went to bed I thought about running and swimming. Whilst asleep I thought about slaying dragons and sleeping with Stacey Slater (in her crazy Bedlam character). Soon I'll test myself and see if I'm better at all 4 things in the real world.

Hmmmm, (this is going to be sooo dull) I was concentrating last night, and I noticed that with flats I really rotate my foot to land on the big pad behind your big toe, and I don't do that in normal shoes, I think I'm having to twist my whole leg!

I'm probably just doing it wrong!! LOL

I'm probably just doing it wrong!! LOL

You still talking about running?

Anyway, I tried heel striking the other day... it's really bloody difficult and feels ridiculous. I find it hard to imagine that anyone with a pronounced heel strike does anything more than jog.

I noticed that with flats I really rotate my foot to land on the big pad behind your big toe

Hmm.. I thought that's how you were supposed to land so I was trying to do it, but I now don't think that. I naturally land on the outside of my foot (behind my little toe) and rotate to the ball as I push off. Doesn't seem to cause any trouble so I just let it happen.

it's really bloody difficult and feels ridiculous

'swhat I've been saying for ages.

FWIW I always used to use classic cushioned road running shoes. Having spent the last year running predominantyl off-road in fell shoes I now find road running shoes horrible 'tall', 'wallowy / baggy' and lift your heel in a really odd way.

My next pair of road shoes will be at least low profile or flats.

I know, I can't believe that you ever used to do it!!

emsz - Member
I was concentrating last night, and I noticed that with flats I really rotate my foot to land on the big pad behind your big toe, and I don't do that in normal shoes, I think I'm having to twist my whole leg!

I'm probably just doing it wrong!! LOL

sounds like it to me. (i'm no expert, and i probably think too much about technique)

molgrips - Member
I naturally land on the outside of my foot (behind my little toe) and rotate to the ball as I push off. Doesn't seem to cause any trouble so I just let it happen.

what he said.

Pieface - Member

FWIW I always used to use classic cushioned road running shoes. Having spent the last year running predominantyl off-road in fell shoes I now find road running shoes horrible 'tall', 'wallowy / baggy' and lift your heel in a really odd way.

and him.

I'm probably just doing it wrong

I know, I can't believe that you ever used to do it!!

I strongly suspect it's the reason why some people hate running. And that's the point about heavily cushioned shoes - they let you carry on doing it without you really realising how bad it is.

Any races planned for the weekend? I may park run.

No races this weekend for me. I've got a [url= http://www.endurancelife.com/realrelay/ ]Real Relay[/url] section midday on Wednesday which is about 12-13miles then in theory an inter-club mob match in the evening, though I might skip that.
Got a 12 mile trail-race next weekend, a trail 10k the weekend after and the Thunder Run 24hr the weekend after (hopefully in a team of 8 )
Just remembered, also the county 3k relay champs somewhere in that, which is great fun mainly because it's short and no matter how slow you are there's always someone to do battle with 🙂

So has anyone got any good marathon training advice. I currently find myself 8 weeks ahead of the plan I was following and not sure weather to continue ramping up the milage or the amount of speed work, or just level off.

I cant help there Dj maybe a question for the sub3 forum on runners world.
Done my early tuesday am session and up'd it to 4 x 1 miles this morning and im 20 second/ mile faster than the 1st time i did it over each mile.
😀 So pretty pleased and ive bike in to work again too.
I dont know whats driving my motivation at the moment but I am just going with it..
Next run thurs for more mile reps then hopefully do long steady stuff at the weekend.
Next race is darlington 10k.

DJ - where do you feel most comfortable - your endurance or your speed? What distance are your long runs?

I would be tempted to make only minor adjustments - eg on your LSR, increase the number of miles run at/inside race pace at the end of the run (do you do this anyway?). If you do yasso's, then deduct a couple of seconds.

Resist the trap of doing something silly and risking injury. Enjoy being well prepared!

So has anyone got any good marathon training advice. I currently find myself 8 weeks ahead of the plan I was following and not sure weather to continue ramping up the milage or the amount of speed work, or just level off.

Have you chosen a schedule that is too easy? I never followed a formal schedule as such but was just doing lots of running, all at various speeds and lots faster than marathon race pace.
One thing I do often see people get wrong is their general and long run pace. Most often it is run too slowly. If you are happy you have set yourself a challenging enough target then do your long runs not too far off race pace and I would also say this is more important than distance. Dont worry about running more than around 16 anything else adds little in my opinion unless you are elite.
My longest run before doing my one marathon was 12 miles as I was training for shorter distances and XC and only decided to do the marathon 2 days before 8)

Given that I was focusing on shorter races I found the pace (I ran it with some friends just for fun) very easy, so much so that I ran the last 10 miles in well under 60 mins to finish.

Just as a hijack-ish, is anyone doing the [url= http://www.bigrunningweekend.co.uk/ ]Big Running Weekend[/url] in the Peak District on 25-27th August?

Only doing the 10k as I am up that part of the world and my sis is doing it. Would have done the 12.12m, but can't navigate for shit, and apparently that is a requirement.

Right then, advice please-
Just done my fourth early am interval session. Im doing tues and thurs am and 1 mile reps. I generally manage 2 other runs of around 10miles at the weekend.
Ist week i did 3 x 1m, this week 4x1 m @ 5.50-6min/m for both sessions.
My aim is speed for 10k however i am also marathon training so the weekend distances will increase.
Should i go to 2 sessions of 5x1m next week or is it increasing to rapidly? I am thinking maybe do 2 x 2 mile then the other day 5 x 1mile.
Should i be aiming for 6 x 1 mile and is there any point to go for more than 6 or is it too much as that will equate to 36 min of hard efforts?
How should i proceed?
Usually i bike to work after but i gave it a miss today and i will bike tomorrow instead.

Can't claim to be an expert but I'd say that the mile reps aren't really about the speed for 10k - they're about endurance at the right speed.

I do shorter, faster intervals to generate leg speed and form and then build up reps at target race pace to generate the endurance.

What's your target 10k pace, and are you doing your mile reps at this pace? If so, do as many as you can until your pace starts to fall off.

How long have you got before your race? If you've got a month or more and can do 5+ miles or 2+2+1 at target race pace, aim to go faster!

nosemineb, I would do a couple of weeks at each level to just make sure the extra work has worked y'know? I know I can put the effort in and 'go for it' over a sprint session, but I like to do 3-4 goes at the same distance to make sure I can do it more than once.

Does that make any sense!!

I don't do more than 4 sprints in a session. I was told sprint sessions should be about 'the sprint' rather than being shattered at the end, so quality over quantity.

[i]
One thing I do often see people get wrong is their general and long run pace. Most often it is run too slowly[/i]

Surfer, I'm having to start slow on my long runs and then pick up the pace at the end otherwise I just die in the last couple of miles. Is that OK?

emsz - I like this article about marathon long runs:

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/2

Message is either start slow and build up speed or go unfuelled and steady to train your body to use fat as fuel.

Im currently around 38 for a 10k but my pb is 36.36 without any real speed work just off the back of running and cycling.
I guess i am aiming for 36 or below for a 10k.
Whilst i felt i had tried hard after the 4th i think i could do another effort.
Maybe i will do a 4x1 next week and a 5x1.
my course is i mile out and back on a unused road so maybe half mile efforts at 5k pace would be good to.
I always thought mile reps were the default for 10 work building to 3 x 2mile efforts.
Next real race is darlington on 12th august its fast ish and chipped and i am on hoilday the week before [camping] so that is ideal to rest the running legs that week.
I think would be good to keep building the 1 mile and maybe alternate the other session to longer 2 mile and short fast half mile reps. Sound like a plan? look like i will get 6 more sessions before the race. My aim for this race is sub 37. I will do leeds abbey at the end of the year and hope to pb there.
Aslo i am going unfuelled on black coffee for these sessions, is that good? i have to many half arsed ideas of what i should be doing! But i am doing something!!

"I always thought mile reps were the default for 10 work building to 3 x 2mile efforts."

Sounds about right. I've seen 3x2m or 5x2km or 2x3m. I guess all pretty much the same idea and effect.

I do most of mine pre-breakfast too.

Sounds like you're definitely going in the right direction. Abbey Dash is on my list too. Just the small matter of 3 Peaks cx first...

Surfer, I'm having to start slow on my long runs and then pick up the pace at the end otherwise I just die in the last couple of miles. Is that OK?

Absolutely fine. Your long run needs to be manageable my point really was aimed at runners who assume that they have to run very slowly on their long run, very much slower than they can handle. For example if you run your base miles around 7 mins per mile through the week (and one of your midweek runs maybe up to around 10) then your long run of around 15 shouldnt be much slower than around 7:20 ish pace.
I see quite a few people running ridiculously slowly on long runs when the long run is a training opportunity not simply a way to waste a couple of hours and increase the risk of injury.

I had a peaks entry to! But after having time to think it over with the new system this year i decided 50quid plus a donation to mtn rescue was too rich for me. ive not regretted it yet! But ive done it 5 times.
Do you fancy the fell race to?
Whats your aim for leeds? Must get it entered this month.

My aim is speed for 10k however i am also marathon training

I'm no expert but you seem to be doing the hard stuff! 1m efforts are tough and for distance runners they are very important and often ignored because of the intensity.
I would suggest by all means continue with 1 x 1m efforts oer week but alternate between say 6-8 x 1/2 mile reps or even 16 x 1/4 mile reps or a mixture.

I found a good way to develop speed was to finish a hard session of reps then recover for a couple of minutes then do 10 x 100 fast strides, accelarating to almost full speed then easing back, turn around then do the next etc then make sure you do a good warn down.
1 mile reps are great to build stamina and strength but to build speed you need to be doing efforts at much faster than your expected race pace so mix it up a bit.

"I always thought mile reps were the default for 10 work building to 3 x 2mile efforts."

Personally I wouldnt really run longer than 1m as a "rep" longer efforts during threshold sessions yes but as a structured session 2m I think is too long.

Abbey Dash is on my list too.

Only did it once but ran quite quickly. Its not an interesting course but good for a PB effort.

Haven't done the 3Pcx before and really fancied a go. I'm treating it as a recce for a future assault so taking it reasonably easy amd making sure I enjoy it.

I've done the fell race before and got it catastrophically wrong. I wasn't really fit enough, hadn't done many long races before and got my fuelling wrong. I needed a few lie downs from Whernside onwards to get over the cramp, then stumbled in at 4:38ish, 40 mins slower than target. Very much a case of unfinished business.

Target for Abbey Dash is 34:59, though I hope to go a bit quicker - I ran 35:30 earlier this year and have plenty of time to get better.

Message is either start slow and build up speed or go unfuelled and steady to train your body to use fat as fuel.

Not sure about the benefit of going unfuelled as the point really is to finish the session. Having said that my long runs often start around 7am so all I have is water and a coffee.
Speeding up during the run I definitely agree with. I used to train with a large group and the first hour was usually steady then it got faster and faster. Its a training session at the end of the day and I know I and my teammates got very fit of that type of competitive training. It has to be balanced of course but I think a long run should be one of the most testing sessions.

i'm no expert

Target for Abbey Dash is 34:59

Am i fooling myself?

Its difficult to say I have ran with guys who train fast then can only manage a similar time in races and others who run significantly faster than their training would suggest when they pin a number on!
Only experience will tell you that and it depends how much effort you are putting in during training and how much you are prepared to hurt during a race. When you have raced more you will find it easier to judge.

Went out Tuesday night for a fast run/walk session. Only this time I wore my cushioned running shoes (although not super cushioned) instead of the barefoot style ones.

I really flew! Ran way faster and longer than I was expecting. Amazed myself.. was it me or the shoes I wonder? 🙂

My form seems to have gone from terrible to bang on after only a couple of sprint sessions. Which means short flat out sprints.

Its all you Molgrips 😉

Did anyone see the program the other night with Eamon Coughlin in Kenya with Mike Boit and Kip Keino??
The depth of quality is staggering, making a final according to Keino means nothing to Kenyans only winning 😯

Up to 60 runners meeting up for training sessions all running very fast. Their commitment and willingness to sacrifice makes them great runners.

Surfer, ok thanks on my 18-20 mile route I'm breaking it down to first 5-6 miles at 8:30/mile then next at 8 then pick up after that to whatever I can keep going at ( varies between 7:30 and 7:45 ) find it hard to keep to that on a long uphill bit at about mile19 though!!

Are you guys doing any leg strength work in a gym at all? Or just interval/ sprints?

Are you guys doing any leg strength work in a gym at all? Or just interval/ sprints?

My legs get a great workout carrying my big belly around.