[Closed] Running.

There is no doubt they have a role to play for elite athletes who focus their life around training and competition and have the data as well as the where with all and support to interrogate it but for the novice there is more to be gained by concentrating on the basics.

Sure, but one of the basics is how fast to run, isn't it?

And there's a lot of ground between rank novice and elite.

I've never hurt my legs like this cycling.

That's cos cycling's non-impact.

Did the Tadley runners 10k yesterday. This was literally the first time i had run since the London British 10k last summer (bar 15 minutes around the block Wednesday night to see if trainers still fitted and to remind myself how to do it!)
Just dipped under an hour which i thought was ok for a 42yr old 13 1/2 stone bloke who NEVER runs.
Legs are a bit sore today, and i expect to be struggling with stairs tomorrow if last year is anything to go by. 😕
Just entered the Basingstoke half marathon in October so fear i may nedd to actually train a bit. 🙁

Currently training for a marathon in October, aim is to go sub 3 hrs. Currently looking good as I did a 10K in 37:50 a couple of weeks ago and did 50 miles last week including 20 miles for the first time yesterday with no ill effects. Fell running is my major passion though and I am moving house so I can do more 🙂

In the last two weeks I have run up or over several of the major lakes peaks including Scafell Pike, Bowfell, Skiddaw, Consiton Old Man and Great Gable

After that its the 3 peaks race, been on the list for some time but I had to complete the qualifying races, then I was injured, next year though...

I use my housemates Garmin every now and then, as it'll show pace and I can measure new routes accuratly. But mostly if I want to run a faster time, then I use the stopwtach on my wrist and beat my previous PB. I don't much go in for all the other faff about running at a particular HR or pace.

I think scenery makes all the difference for enjoyment. running into the countryside (if you can) is bliss

Popped my heart rate minitor on during yesterdays 10k, just to see what i was ticking over at.
Found it quite helpful as although i don't know what bpm i should be aiming for when running, it was quite reassuring that after hills it was dropping down nicely in a similar way that it would after a climb on the road bike and i wasn't bouncing off the rev limiter the whole way round. 🙂

Quite scary that running for 6 miles is sooo much harder work than 60 miles on the road bike.

Did my first "run" in ages on saturday 45mins of slow to medium jogging with some short steep hills, lots of stretching and a cold bath afterwards did nowt to prevent my legs hurting yesterday and today. Is this how non-cyclists feel after doing a big ride with no training? I've never hurt my legs like this cycling.

steep hills you say? - did you run down as well as up?

i'd guess that you've got DOMS in your quad muscles (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness), it's caused by eccentric loading of the muscles (forcibly extending a tensed muscle), the best way to cause it is to run downhill.

it's very difficult/impossible to cause it by riding a bike (no repeated violent extension of the quad muscles).

massage doesn't help - and will just hurt like hell, you can't walk it off, it lasts 2-3 days without really getting better or worse, and then disappears overnight.

(it's very odd, and it's still not well understood)

i get it pretty much every week, 'cause of the fell running and my almost total lack of finesse on the descents.

One does not always look our best when running[IMG] [/IMG]

I have found a HRM really useful in just pacing myself and understanding how much to back off to complete a long run at an easy pace. I think as long as you understand the variances that can occur then you should be OK. My HR was 10 bpm higher on yesterdays long road run compared with 3 weeks ago, but this was due to a cold and tiredness

+1 for a decent HRM / GPS.

I'm currently doing 10k in the mornings - running to the station. 5 days a week.

Pace has increased gradually from start of the year when I used to walk it - currently averaging around 50 minute mark (laden with rucksack containing clothes / lunch / towel and general work kit so i don't think it's too bad). The Garmin has been a really good motivating tool ( virtual partner etc ) and I'm one for collating as much data as I can. I've found working on cadence as well as looking at HR zones useful in increasing stamina and speed.

Aim is to have a week with one sub 46 minute and rest sub 48 run. Afraid to say i don't have a specific runnng training plan at the moment - will save that for later in the year.

Great thread, I'm struggling with my running and this is good reading 'cos it seems that I'm not alone.
I can only plod along at my slow speed (9km in 50mins last night) but am suffering from a bad back at the moment. I also work late most nights so fitting in runs is very hard.
I'm supposed to do a 14 mile run for charity in mid-August. My plan is to do a couple of 3 or 4 mile runs midweek then a long one at the weekends to get distance under my belt.
Has anyone got top tips for training? I've done 10km and 16km events in the past but I was a lot fitter and slimmer then and my body wasn't as broken.
Because I'm just an occasional runner, I just run at my own pace for as long as I can. All this fartlek and 85% MHR is just science fiction to me. There must be other crap runners who think the same??

Here's a photo of me during this year's Edale Skyline race where I came 8th

[img] [/img]

Ive not run in about a month. Just ran 4K in 22 minutes. Is that good/bad/average?

it felt hellish and thought I was slow but the same route normally takes me 25 minutes

It's a bit slower than me.

Sure, but one of the basics is how fast to run, isn't it?

maybe they dont tell you that they dont even provide reliable output to be able to guage effort (not speed) GPS monitors distance over time (speed) which is useful (but not all the time) HRM no. Running at the same pace can give different readings dependent on many factors. Without significant information it tells you very little.

My HR was 10 bpm higher on yesterdays long road run compared with 3 weeks ago, but this was due to a cold and tiredness

Did the HRM tell you that you had a cold? or did you have a cold then notice that your HRM was elevated?
Chances are you felt under the weather and responded the same way with or without a HRM by taking it easy.
If you had a cold but your HRM indicated a normal reading would you have trained normally?

Running at the same pace would result in different HRs yes. But running at the same HR would be a good indicator of the actual effort expended and hence what your body is doing, wouldn't it?

Not perfect of course, but a bit better than going by feel.

I'm not saying get one, I'm not saying it'll be brilliant for everyone, but they can be useful for regular runners if you decide you want to train that way.

Here's a photo of me during this year's Edale Skyline race where I came 8th

Your showing off now 😉

Ok then, can someone inspire me to go out for a run? I'm knackered and feel like sleeping, but I'm still fat.

I'm not anti HRM I just think it takes peoples eye off the ball in the sense that their are other factors to consider, it also gives people another reason to run slow as athletes often set their max levels very low using generic formulae then hold back to stay within them. This is often impractical on training runs as the speed and terrain often vary plus HR rises as you get tired.

It could, yes. But then people can get obsessed with gear of all types, can't they? I mean, we're MTBers aren't we? 🙂

I used to find it impossible to run in any kind of base zone, but now I can cruise comfortably at an easy HR.

Ok then, can someone inspire me to go out for a run? I'm knackered and feel like sleeping, but I'm still fat.

Ok then, can someone inspire me to go out for a run? I'm knackered and feel like sleeping, but I'm still fat.

I'm not going - I think sleep would be more beneficial to the overall cause at this time.

And not eating any sugar.

I used to find it impossible to run in any kind of base zone, but now I can cruise comfortably at an easy HR.

Why was it too fast?

Morning runners!
I managed to get up and out the door for 6am today, ive done 3 x 1 mile efforts at 6.30 pace which felt flippin hard straight out of bed! Nearly 5 mile in total with warm up , stretches and cool down. Really pleased with myself. Got home, had breakfast with the kids then an 11 mile commute to work by bike. Im going to attempt this every tues and thursday mornings. Then hopefully a long run and a shorter tempo at the weekends unless im racing.
Im sure i will be tired later but im wide awake now! 🙂
I've got a bit of stiffness in my hamstrings from the weekend race still so will get the massage stick on them tonight.
I don't use hrm, i did for years but never really new what i was doing with it, i know the basics but unless you have a coach or fully understand it i wouldn't bother personally. However i love the gps for speed pace and rarely run without it. Interestingly i put some of my lack luster weekend race performance down to forgetting my Garmin, i think if i had seen the pace i was actually racing at it may have spurred me on to push harder. Maybe?!
Bought 2 new pairs of shorts yesterday and was served by Darran Bilton a top uk Vet marathon runner, Nice guy and super friendly. He is quite well known on my local race scene as being the man to beat.
Roll on Thursday am!

http://www.alexvero.co.uk/documentary.htm
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If you get chance to see this its worth a watch. It was aired in tv a while back but it may be available on the net for free somewhere.

That's cos cycling's non-impact.

steep hills you say? - did you run down as well as up?

I must get round to watching that time, as I recall it sounded quite interesting when it came out, but got some mixed reviews.
It's the club 5K handicap this evening. Looking at the entrance list so far, none of my rivals have signed up yet, so I might take the series lead. Mind you, they've still got a few more hours to sign on, but fingers crossed they're on holiday 🙂

If your talking about the vero vid i think he upset a lot of runners by basically saying you can all do it if you put the effort in. If thats true or not i dont know. I found it really good and for those who want to make running a bit more exciting try running like this chap..
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Jornet.[/url]

I did a 4h 48m marathon on Sunday - actually quite pleased as it was the last section of an Ironman distance triathlon. Running well until i got to 30K, when it turned into more of a run/walk. 12h 33m total time.

On the right in the picture below - end of the first lap, about 10K into it.

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Well played RichardK... a respectable time for an Ironman.

Planning to do an Iron in 2014(happy to slowly build up to it, got my first HIM next month.) and would be happy with a time like that.

That Kilian Jornet vid looks like he's turned up at the Red Bull Rampage without his bike but carried on regardless 😆

i think he upset a lot of runners by basically saying you can all do it if you put the effort in

If thats the case who would it upset. Within reason athletic performance is dependent on effort.

killian video @ 33s, why is he wearing a sports bra under his shirt?

Surfer, Certainly not upset here. But imagine the outcry on runners world forum when they saw the film- "you can be like me too if you tried harder" but but but....
Ive since seen the documentary recently on telly about super compensator's where some people adapt massively to little exercise and were othere simple dont. I think it was about the HIIT ? I certainly know people who get race fit within weeks and are doing 34 10k then there are others who always seem to be running and struggle to go below an hour for a 10k after years of 'training'. So i imagine Vero is prob wrong and he was a gifted overweight asthmatic. Its a good watch though, have you seen it?

Ive prob got half a story from skimming this thread and made some up [possibly]
[url= http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/training/are-you-inspired-by-alex-veros-ambitions-or-slightly-insulted/101396-2.html ]runners world forum[/url]

Well played RichardK... a respectable time for an Ironman.

Planning to do an Iron in 2014(happy to slowly build up to it, got my first HIM next month.) and would be happy with a time like that.

+1

I have entered the frankfurt ironman next year, I have a lot of work to do, no where near fit enough at the moment. Did my first tri a few weeks ago (olympic) and it was a bit of a shock to the system. Got a HIM next month also (Weisbaden which looks to have a hilly bike course so I am starting to worry about it).
Doing triathlons was something that was in the back of my mind for a few years but I never got started, so decided to set myself some aggressive targets.

@nosemineb

No I havent seen it but ref you point about people responding to training I have a friend who I used to train with almost every lunchtime a few years ago. He lives down the road from me and was a very talented runner (Southern cross country champ and third in the inter counties XC (Should be easy to work it out!)) who could go from puffing at 7 minute pace to cruising at 5 min pace literally within a few weeks of a long layoff(the bugger) By his own admission he was not very talented but he trained incredibly hard for what he achieved.

I certainly know people who get race fit within weeks and are doing 34 10k then there are others who always seem to be running and struggle to go below an hour for a 10k after years of 'training'.

People do respond differently to training, that's for sure. But it's also blatantly obvious that some people are much better suited to running than others. More so than cycling, I would say.

To paraphrase an old saying.

You cant make a cart horse into a race horse but you can make it into a fast cart horse!

[i]What plans have you got?[/i]
left foot then right foot, repeat for about 30 minutes

[i]How is the training going? [/i]
Aright, i occasionally forget what order to move the feet in and fall over

[i]Are you injured or on top form?[/i]
fit as a bakers dog (bad idave joke)

7.4 mile run last night, which is a long way for me. Did quite well - first two miles in 14.17 with ease, first 10km in 50 mins with which I'm pleased. The best 5 miles was 40.01, which was my target for the annual 5 mile race where the in-laws live.

Good effort molgrips. I managed to get running at 6am again for intervals in the rain and I've done my 26m commute too. Tired now.
Did 3 x 1 mile again quicker than Tuesday session. Last and fastest mile was 5.50. Slowest 6.20.
Going to try 4x1 next week.
Hope to do some long runs this weekend. But not sure when yet.

Two sets of sprint intervals and all that heart pounding and gasping for breath on the intervals seems to have had an impact on my aerobic capacity. I was barely breathing hard at all even running at 7m pace, the only thing that slowed me down was pain and discomfort in my legs.

I'll definitely do more of those long ones. Also considering running up Pen y Fan as practice for the Ben. Trouble is, to get the same amount of climbing I'd have to do Pen y Fan TWICE! 😯