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Yep, green machine in the final then 
(joking! we have our own little squeaky bum game to go through tomorrow)
I think ireland would be favs to beat wales but it should be a great game
Congratultions England
As a Scotsman I am gutted but to be honest none of the 3 'big' teams in this group are looking great.
In some ways this may be a bad result for England in the long run. There is a very good chance that they will get to the final now, which of course is great short term news for English rugby fans.
However, with the resources at their disposal England should be the world's no.1 side. They are a long way from that. An early exit may have forced a major shake up in English rugby but I cannot see that happening now.
I hope Engalnd beat France (I fully expect they will) A semi against Ireland or Wales would be mouth watering :-).
Should have added. I would see both Ireland & Wales as favourites against England. That said it would not be a shock result for England to beat either of them.
On current form, I'd agree without a second thought that both Wales and Ireland [i]should[/i] beat England, as [i]should[/i] have Scotland. Though I seem to remember a fair few occasions with the boot on the other foot: Wales have a habit of coming back from heavy deficits themselves, and have done so a few times against England in recent years...
As for needing a severe rocket up their backside, the England rugby team isn't the only potential 'on paper' world number 1, the football and cricket teams should hold that too in terms of monetary investment and resources. The only one of those to go through major changes is the cricket set up (2007 Ashes whitewash was the catalyst). The footballers got laughed out of the last world cup and failed to qualify for Euro2008, and don't seem to have changed a single thing beyond the manager.
Funnily enough, it's also the cricketers who hold that number 1 slot. I do wonder just how many bad results are needed before the FA and RFU take a leaf out of the ECB's book on this.
On current form, I'd agree without a second thought that both Wales and Ireland should beat England, as should have Scotland
You'll have to run this past me again slowly, how was Scotlands form in any way indicative of an ability to beat England?
Typical England v typical Scotland = narrow win for the English.
The trick in major competitions is to only play well when you need to. England have reached the last 2 finals dong that. I've seen nothing from Wales, Ireland or France to make me think they'll beat England if the English up their performance to what we know they can achieve. If they don't they'll go out, if they do they'll make the final.
I've seen nothing from Wales, Ireland or France to make me think they'll beat England if the English up their performance to what we know they can achieve
Big if, and also when has this current england team ever looked like winning much? Last big match they had ireland wiped the floor with them. If Wales face england with Jenkins and Jones and the rest of there pack fit they will have a very good chance of beating them.
The trick in major competitions is to only play well when you need to.
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The trick in major competitions is to only play well when you need to.
Well they needed to today and didnt and were damn close to being knocked out by a very mediocre team.
Twas a ropey game really... on to the next one though, you can only beat what is in front of you, so far so good.
They were hardly "dam close" 😀 Scot land led by a plus 8 margin for about 40seconds. Scotland only looked like they could pull off an upset for the first 30 mins. In the second half they did little and England scored 13 un answered points.
They were hardly "dam close" Scot land led by a plus 8 margin for about 40seconds. Scotland only looked like they could pull off an upset for the first 30 mins. In the second half they did little and England scored 13 un answered points.
yes, I am sorry Englanshire are World beaters and great, sorry.... [i]doffs cap and runs off[/i]
funniest thing about the Armitage hit on Paterson was the **** knuckle commentator "oh he's caught Armitage" pure comedy gold
In some ways this may be a bad result for England in the long run.
I don't see why, if you're a cup lifting team, you fear no-one. This is why I wasn't bothered by today's score.
However, with the resources at their disposal England should be the world's no.1 side
but that's just nonsense isn't it. considering that rugby union is a game that only really attracts any kind of interest in england from the middle classes of the south then it's amazing that we do as well as we do.
compared to say wales where it's easily the national game - we punch way, way above our weight in rugby union.
i don't see rugby union in england being much different to tennis in its broader appeal to the working class pool of potential talent.
Population Wales- [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales ]3million[/url]
Pupulation Southern England - [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_East_England ]8million[/url]
Population London - [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_East_England ]7.8million[/url]
Have a nosey at [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/rugby-world-cup-1/page/48?replies=2310#post-2994549 ]this[/url] too.
I can see where you're coming from on that one trailmonkey. 😉
lies, damn lies and statistics 😆
that graph just shows the number of fat wheezy ex public schoolboys trundling around on a saturday afternoon.
still don't see that it shows us picking players from the wider demographic.
for huge swathes of england, rugby union is a non entity.
This is the usual crap I have come to expect on here. Making judgements on who is world class or world beaters is such a load of crap. We won, scotland didn't, they got a bp so it was close , well played jocks.Everything else is just a load of couldashouldwoulda codswallop. The records show england are the best team in the NH (6n and irb ranking) so frankly that is all you need to know...
But with the now professional game there is more switching of codes which brings in the northerners too. Surely the fwheezies weren't always that way either.
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_union_in_England ]Statistics[/url]According to the International Rugby Board England has 1,900 rugby union clubs; 6,060 referees; 362,319 pre-teen male players; 698,803 teen male players; 121,480 senior male players (total male players 1,182,602) as well as 11,000 senior female players.[3] But these statistics are somewhat unreliable.
against
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_union_in_Wales ]Statistics[/url]According to the IRB, Wales has 239 rugby union clubs; 2321 referees; 28,702 pre-teen male players; 21,371 teen male players; 19,000 senior male players (total male players 69,073) as well as 1,000 teen female players; 1,056 senior female players (total female players 2,056)
The arguments not looking too strong at the moment. 😆
It's funny, my brother, who's Scottish (long story), joined us to watch the game just after half time.
"We'll look good for 60 minutes then run out of steam. We won't score a try and England will come on strong in the last 20 and beat us. I've seen it all before."
He was spot on.
England aren't great but they were too good for Sco/Arg. Assuming the flakey French turn up instead of the brilliant French then we'll be in the semis.
After that? Who knows?
I'd pick Ireland to beat England but Wales match up well against Ireland and if the Welsh won I'd take England over them in the semi.
I'd predict an Ire/NZ final but there's a long way to go before that. 🙂
yes, I am sorry Englanshire are World beaters and great, sorry.... doffs cap and runs off
You see I never said that, I just pointed out a couple of facts. 🙂 if we can beat the scots playing that badly then we can only really get better.
ditch_jockey - Member"Scotland looking brighter so far"
Don't get sucked in - they'll tease you until the end then ship a try in the last moments to go down to a heroic defeat.
Bastids
"sulks"
Oh and tree magnet - get it up ye with a big splintery stick.
Oh god the old England have X number of players. Bore off. There's far more to having a good team than sheer numbers. It's the same story trotted out usually following an England win.
Ah well as I said at the beginning it was the group of death with 3 of the top ten teams in the world in it - with nothing much betweeen them.
All very marginal but heroic defeats is simply not good enough. Robinson / townend have to go. We need a young ambitious coach from teh soutehrn hemisphere IMO - when Robinson was appointed there were a couple interested. Its proved to me what I always suspected - Robinson is a very good pro team coach but cannot cut it as an international coach. Some of his selections were puzzling / wrong. Patterson shouldn't have been playing - you cannot pick someone as a kicker then try to hide them Rory Lamont should have been at full back Ansbro should have played in the centre every game as should Sean Lamont. To defensive.
Life would be easier being an England fan
*still sulking*
maxray - Member.....if we can beat the scots playing that badly then we can only really get better.
Sorry - thats how good England are - just a bit better than Scotland. You will not get any better with Johnson in charge trying to play 2003 again.
You need some half backs with a bit of speed, a decent back row and centre who can run You have a half a good team
Trailmonkey. I think you will find, that there are more registered pro rugby union players in England than any other country in the world.
I may well stand corrected as this was explained to me by a welshman, allbeit a very well informed welshman 😀
We'll trip our way(England that is) to the final, which will be against New Zealand, who will choke, and thats it and all about it!!!! 😆 😆 😆
trailmonkey - Member"However, with the resources at their disposal England should be the world's no.1 side"
but that's just nonsense isn't it. considering that rugby union is a game that only really attracts any kind of interest in england from the middle classes of the south then it's amazing that we do as well as we do.
Nope - England have more players than the rest of the world put together I believe - they certainly are the biggest and richest union by a long long way.
2 main issues
1) the structure of the domestic game - too much emphasis on not loosing and
2) the wrong coach coaching the wrong tactics
Sorry - thats how good England are - just a bit better than Scotland. You will not get any better with Johnson in charge trying to play 2003 again.
And on the evidence of today's game, neither are particularly good. England defended very well against a side that couldn't attack its way out of a wet paper bag. Neither really threatened the oppositions try line.
The 3 teams from the top 10 is starting to lose water now tandem, Pool D is the new group of death. 😈
The arguments not looking too strong at the moment
that's because you're basing your argument solely on blind quantitive data. how many of those players in england are of welsh/irish/scots/other origin ? how many of those clubs and players are purely amateur ? how many of those pre teen players are working class and ever likely to be encouraged to pursue a sporting career.
you haven't come up anything so far that contradicts my claim that rugby in england is almost exclusively a middle class game that bypasses the main talent pool a la tennis.
anyhow, numbers mean little. uruguay have a population the size of wales and have won the football world cup twice. wales on the other hand...........
wales on the other hand...........
That's because the main sport in Wales is rugby, but that's changing now as rugby was the sport of the working class and as there are very few who could be classed as working in Wales..... 😥
DS he wasn't talking about wales wendyball performance..
Sorry - thats how good England are - just a bit better than Scotland
Quite a bit better teej , I know you are smarting like but how many rwc finals have Scotland been in again?
Better to be looking at how Scotland can improve than picking holes in the team that won.
Sorry toys19, I assumed he was talking about Uruguay's 1930 world cup win in football, I assume that's what wendyball is, as opposed to their win in the rugby world.......... 😕
Maxray - Years ago - how about now?
Nothing England have done for several years looks anything but a wee bit better than Scotland and Argentina. Nothing to worry the 3n teams. Consistently a wee bit better but thats all they are - a wee bit better. Look at the points scores the last few calcutta cups?
You attitude is why its ABE! its the arrogance.
This is increasingly looking like Wales year.
The Optimism Gnome is rampant in Wales at the moment
You see I never said that, I just pointed out a couple of facts. if we can beat the scots playing that badly then we can only really get better.
What makes you think England were a. playing badly or b. can play better?
This is increasingly looking like Wales year.The Optimism Gnome is rampant in Wales at the moment
I think Ireland will be too strong for Wales myself when push comes to shove Faletau et al wont cut it against their defence, they'll be bullied bruised and held up in the tackle to turn ball over, I have foreseen it. England could very easily make the semi's but Ireland look better than England. I still wouldnt discount the French, they always have one good game at a world cup. Lets hope its against England.
Bollocks to all this toffs Rugby anyway, Wigan are playing St Helens in the Super League play-offs - much more important. 🙂
Bollocks to all this toffs Rugby anyway, Wigan are playing St Helens in the Super League play-offs - much more important.
Right lads you've got five chances to do something positive, if you can't we'll give the ball to the other team to see if they can do any better. Coolio. 8)
Great result for Tonga today!
As others have said, winning when it matters is all that is important. You can't criticize the team that does this best as they will be the world champions!
[url= http://www.rugbydump.com/2011/09/2103/rugby-world-cup-daily-player-numbers-around-the-world#allcomments ]On the note of player numbers...[/url]
Right lads you've got five chances to do something positive, if you can't we'll give the ball to the other team to see if they can do any better. Coolio.
Yes it's much better when the game is almost entirely based around kicking and penalties - makes it so much more exciting.
Yes it's much better when the game is almost entirely based around kicking and penalties - makes it so much more exciting.
Agreed, I much prefer multi phase games when people are prepared to run the ball, ruck and mall until the opposition can win it or a try is scored. 😀
Ok teej, how many 5 or 6 nations have Scotland won compare to England?
It's not arrogance, I cheer for the home nations when they are not playing England, in fact my manx routes would pr9baby give me a closer tie to the Celtic nations.
Fact is Scotland were not good enough today, England were better, just enough to edge them out. Baring a real shock tom there will only be 1 of the two teams progressing, youre only as good as your last game 🙂
Ok teej, how many 5 or 6 nations have Scotland won compare to England?It's not arrogance, I cheer for the home nations when they are not playing England, in fact my manx routes would pr9baby give me a closer tie to the Celtic nations.
Fact is Scotland were not good enough today, England were better, just enough to edge them out. Baring a real shock tom there will only be 1 of the two teams progressing, youre only as good as your last game
now read your post back and tell me it isnt ever so slightly stupid.
Err, what bit is stupid? 😯