MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Good grief. Poor . SA doing whatever they like.
What a mess . On the plus side, Cips was electric for 5 minutes. Should start next week and cement his place as a number 2 10. We need an effective centre outside Farrell also .
Itoje and Maro V hero's to zeros .
Oh Ben Young's, what a ****. Grow up man, you know better .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=guiy0xwFQ08
Still got a lot to learn from the england interview coach!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fuSQEsVgnWE
Geez! What a completely brain dead performance.
SA are not that good a side but we just handed it to them.
No leadership, no decision making and almost a complete lack of basic skills such as catching a ball or even holding on to a ball.
Ben Youngs - honestly, what can you say. Idiotic choices. He always fails to deliver when the chips are down.
Nathan Hughes - obviously far from the sharpest knife in the draw.
Mako - when he's good he's great but when he's not, he's abysmal
Jamie George - never quite filled Hartley's shoes has he?
Brown - pish
The rest look like they've played too much rugby because they have.
Profoundly glad we're not touring NZ......
Jamie George – never quite filled Hartley’s shoes has he?
I admit I only half watched it whilst bike fettling but George looked better than Hartley to me.
George looked better than Hartley to me.
Maybe but England's set-piece has always seemed more solid with Hartley present.
Besides, he's a better captain than that mouthy little gobsh*te.......
I listened to it on the radio and they were talking a lot about Englands decision to be based at sea level when first 2 matches were at altitude. ie players not used to the altitude and get knackered really quickly.
Where in sweet merry hell have they found this 'singer'?!
That was painful.
I listened to it on the radio and they were talking a lot about Englands decision to be based at sea level when first 2 matches were at altitude. ie players not used to the altitude and get knackered really quickly.
TBF its established practise if you dont have time to acclimatise
....and on the subject of England..... we're ****ed! Properly ****ed, Slade isn't up to scratch internationally, neither is Hughes. So many issues throughout the team though, we went over an hour today without scoring. We'll be lucky to get out of our group at the RWC!
Happy with that, not great, but hey a wins a win.
And more importantly a series win.
Let’s hope we make it 3 out of 3 in Cape Town. 🤙🏻
[i]Slade isn’t up to scratch internationally[/i]
Thought that last week, but he was even worse today. Looks like a kid out there.
Here, how much better are SA without that dodgy haircut at no.10?! Always wondered how he got in the squad.
Good start from the welsh kids.
And then Argentina get a try. Still 5:19 @ half time
Someone call the AA. One chariot, on the hard shoulder. Borked.
https://twitter.com/DuncanBech/status/1008066569711341573?s=19
That Josh Adams try, though!
First time I've caught the Rugby on Channel 4....how crap is their coverage?! Also, how shit are Argentina?! Impressed with Ellis Jenkins though.
Marler needs a ban if the swearing thing is true, that Saffa crowd did look like a pretty rough bunch though!
Impressed with Ellis Jenkins though.
He's quality.
Tips
Warbs (we hope)
Navidi
Jenkins
Davies
Young
Not bad
A lot of top 7s in Wales at the moment.
Not a patch on either Robshaw or Haskell! Jesus
Well this summers kids have done so well, all so positive...not the welsh way!
Did the arg physio just punch moriarty?
Thank god we finished with a red card! Some gloom at last!
Looks like Mako is heading home for "personal" reasons. Genge has already left apparently.
Russia have just given Canada another hammering, although at least Canada put a few more points on the board.
A few red cards today too, the choke hold was pretty special, especially the refusal to instantly let go when the ref is right there.
Falls unlucky (more so Barrett), but also a bit reckless, can't be having players land on their heads, even if the intent and 'challenge' were not malicious.
Just saw the Moriarty thing. Disgusting, I hope he gets a f***ing long ban for that.
And Daniel Hourcade has quit as Argentina coach. He'll see out the Scotland game next week then step down.
Just saw the Moriarty thing. Disgusting, I hope he gets a f***ing long ban for that.
Games gone soft, what should an outside half expect when he punches an 8?? 😉
There seems to be a lot of wailing coming from the north.
Not sure I agree with this red card. Just because BB jumped higher?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jXuYqN2sUzI
This on the other hand is a stone cold red, think the 10 should have got a yellow too for his first to the face in clear out.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r49xuqctSco
Physio should have been carded too, collapsed a maul in the first half too the ****!!
Hopefully this works. When backs have a brawl... 🙂
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<h1 class="">Challenging players in the air - Law 10.4(i)</h1>
<p class=""><b>Play on</b> – Fair challenge with both players in a realistic position to catch the ball. Even if the player(s) land(s) dangerously, play on</p>
<b>Penalty only</b> – Fair challenge with wrong timing - No pulling down
<b>Yellow card</b> – Not a fair challenge, there is no contest and the player is pulled down landing on his back or side
<b>Red card</b> – It’s not a fair challenge with no contest, whilst being a reckless or deliberate foul play action and the player lands in a dangerous position
https://laws.worldrugby.org/index.php?domain=9&guideline=8&language=EN
Looking at that and the videos on the link I think Fall is a yellowat worst, goes for the ball but gets beaten. He doesnt attempt to tackle or pull down BB but the "contest" is very one sided.
Things seem to change so quickly in rugby, only 3 months ago tjagain said:
Wales are below Scotland in the world rankings and have been for a while. They are not a better team Scotland will finish this 6N higher than Wales. Aus have a higher ranking but Scotland beat them home and away. do not make the mistake of thinking England played badly. They met the real scotland and scotland made them look bad by outplaying them, out thinking them and being better coached with better tactics
Its a classic – scotland only win because the opposition were rubbish!
I’m not scared of Ireland like I was of England. Sure an away win is hard but I think we have the players to beat them
I refred to the rankings as I think it shows the true strength of teams. England are rightly clear of the rest in second place although I don’t know what this will do to the rankings
Will Scotland beat Argentina?
Wonder if Sanchez will be cited?
Still I doubt he will try and cheapshot a forward again!!
Not sure I agree with this red card. Just because BB jumped higher?
I agree. I don’t see that anyone can get a red card for trying to play the ball. If he had looked to see where the jumper was before going for the catch he would have got a red for deliberately taking him out. No way of winning that situation unless you can jump higher.
Who is the Irish ex-player commentating? The one who thinks any penalty offence in the 22 is a yellow, and doesn’t understand the subtlety of a deliberate knock-on in open play compared to slapping the ball out of the 9s hands while in a ruck. He’s slightly more biased than Nicol.
Farrell - “We’re trying to play rugby.” Just after Vunipola had slapped the player on the floor. Stay classy Owen. 😂
And yes a_a, the physio did punch Moriarty.
Who is the Irish ex-player commentating? The one who thinks any penalty offence in the 22 is a yellow, and doesn’t understand the subtlety of a deliberate knock-on in open play compared to slapping the ball out of the 9s hands while in a ruck.
Yeah the Aussie was in for a try had he caught it so I'm pretty sure he was trying to catch it!!
I especially like that at least 3 times different people said "its like dejavu again" in the England game...it was like dejavu.
That and Barnes praising the amazing accuracy of Englands passing as England give away a scrum in their own 22 with a forward pass. Sky Spurts are so one eyed. It was like dejavu again 😁 as England get pinged for a high tackle and Barnes praises the tackling.
Later on Martyn Williams points out that Scott Gibbs has appeared in both tests v Argentina according to Eddie Butler!
Who is the Irish
Yeah...
...been a tough year for you guys.
Sky Spurts are so one eyed.
They give England longer coverage than any of the other games, presumably because they know the post-match player interviews could drag on. 😂
Yeah…
…been a tough year for you guys.
😂 We’ve got plenty of crap commentators but none quite as blinkered as him.
Jack McGrath’s “how did I end up here” moment. 😂 (thankfully we can all laugh about it now...)
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…been a tough year for you guys.
Clearly you dont recall the 80's or the 90's. This year has been just fine my friend!! Above Scotchland in the world rankings too, we must be awesome!
And a close up. 🙂
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Above Scotchland in the world rankings too, we must be awesome!
Yes, when I first heard that USA had beaten a ‘tier one nation’ I didn’t realise they meant Scotland 😂😂😂
Koroibete’s yellow card tackle. Amazes me that players still think they might just get away with this. Probably lucky to get away with a yellow and thankfully Kearney was ok - he managed to get his arm out before he hit the ground.
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You can clearly see that Kearney rolls forward to generate that yellow card. Typical cheating Irish....
😁
Yeah, tough year for you guys.
First 5 mins is great, couldnt happen to a nicer bloke! Fast forward to aboutv3 mins for Jones getting upset!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b694nc
So, our slump continues with another inept performance. Topped off with the players arguing with fans - stay classy chaps. Unsurprisingly it was Brown and Marler. Reckon Shields is regretting not waiting for that all black cap now...
Eddie needs to wake up and realise that his methods aren’t working at the mo and he needs to get the team back on side somehow. Can’t say that I expect anything else next week given that we can’t handle the Bok physicality yet we just hoof the balk back to them.
Vunipola’s gone now also. Personally I agree with Woodward on this one - the series is gone so stick some of the new boys on the park and see what they’ve got. Cips should play 10 and we can see if he can solve that “crap going backwards” that Ford has, plus he’s also quicker on his feet to join the attack than Ford. Daly & Brown reversed obviously. The instructions should be “deny them the ball”, but otherwise just go and play.
Launchbury should Captain also, Farrell made some poor decisions, but that won’t happened due to Eddie’s loyalty factor to the captains shirt.
6th in the World Rankings, that’ll be some going to be number 1 in 12 months.
Good news about Fall. Love watching him play.
Worse still, England are acquiring a reputation that will concern the RFU even more than recent results. In addition to a few terse media interviews and unseemly on-field spats, both the coach and a squad member have been drawn into verbal altercations with supporters immediately after games. Travelling English fans staying at the team hotel in Bloemfontein reported even polite requests for pictures were frowned on. They were similarly unimpressed when a senior player jumped a lengthy reception queue saying he had an emergency, which turned out to be requesting an extension lead for his PlayStation.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jun/17/england-eddie-jones-indecision-spats-world-cup
anagallis_arvensis
Good news about Fall. Love watching him play.
Good news for Fall, not good news for refs who have to make these decisions on the field, then get undermined in the boardrooms.
Yeah, that looks like a poor decision to overturn that red. The ruling (which no one here ever seems to read before pronouncing on these things) says (and I paraphrase) that his “collision” with the AB No.13 causes him to fall or be propelled into Barrett. It also mentions “intent” which is bringing intent into a law that isn’t supposed to consider it. It comes across very much as backward reasoning from a desired conclusion. It’s not going to do much for player safety.
Good news for Fall, not good news for refs who have to make these decisions on the field, then get undermined in the boardrooms.
Or alternatively the refs should make an effort to make the correct decision on field. How many people watched Fall being sent off and thought ‘correct decision’? Only New Zeslanders, I’d guess. How many thought that the two ABs involved in the high tackle which resulted in a French fractured skull last week should go unpunished? What about the stamping in the U20s game, which wasn’t deemed serious enough for a TMO review or card despite the French player needing treatment to his head? (Seriously, wtf did stamping stop being a red card offence?)
Only New Zeslanders, I’d guess.
You'd be wrong.
The rest of your post is whataboutery and/or Flasheart level NZ hating.
It’s not going to do much for player safety.
Penalise jumping for the ball then - that’s the bit that makes that situation unsafe. You cannot send players off who are only trying to play the ball when an opposition player puts himself in an unsafe position. Show me the section of the laws where it says that the highest jumper gets priority.
The rest of your post is whataboutery and/or Flasheart level NZ hating.
You are right about the whatsboutery but wrong about NZ hating. I love watching them play - but I’ve deliberately picked out three events in three games in the last week or so which all benefit NZ.
I'm not sure if it's possible to have a discussion about whether the rules are being applied fairly or not without using the phrase 'what about'.
I’m not sure if it’s possible to have a discussion about whether the rules are being applied fairly or not without using the phrase ‘what about’.
Its perfectly possible to discuss the incident and subsequent rescinding of the red card without talking about an U20s game. Unless you think dangerous play shouldn’t be punished on a case by case basis and that dangerous play against AB players needs a period of leniency to atone for all the stuff they get away with.
Unless you think dangerous play shouldn’t be punished on a case by case basis
Attempting to catch a high ball fairly should be penalised more harshly than stamping on a head or a high tackle resulting in a fractured skull?
How many people watched Fall being sent off and thought ‘correct decision’? Only New Zeslanders, I’d guess.
A lot of the press coverage from NZ thought it was the wrong decision, pretty sure Hansen also thought it needed looking into. It looked to me like a rugby collision, it looked that way to the citing panel. Obviously had he been Welsh he'd have got 10 weeks or 15 if he was Gavin Henson.
No news on a citing for Sanchez's WWE punch.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44537558
I find myself sympathetic to what Brown says...must have a shower before bed!!
Attempting to catch a high ball fairly should be penalised more harshly than stamping on a head or a high tackle resulting in a fractured skull?
I'd incorrectly assumed that you'd read the relevant rulings. Like most posters on this thread, you haven't. When you have, then come back to the thread and we can have a grown-up discussion about it. Until then, feel free to rail on - you obviously feel there's plenty for you to feel aggrieved at.
I agreed with the red card. It was tough on the player, but after the slight contact he wasn't in a position imo to realistically challenge for the ball. At that point he makes the wrong decision and goes for it anyway. It's harsh, but the rules are there to protect the players, and as we can see when it goes wrong it can lead to head injuries.
I’d incorrectly assumed that you’d read the relevant rulings. Like most posters on this thread, you haven’t.
Funny how the citing panel didnt agree then isnt it.
It was tough on the player, but after the slight contact he wasn’t in a position imo to realistically challenge for the ball. At that point he makes the wrong decision and goes for it anyway
This almost gets to the nub of the issue, he'd have only known where BB and that he wasnt in a position to win the ball had he taken his eyes off the ball by which time he'd likely have clattered BB anyway.
When you have, then come back to the thread and we can have a grown-up discussion about it. Until then, feel free to rail on – you obviously feel there’s plenty for you to feel aggrieved at.
Grown up? Coming from one of the most flippant and dismissive posters on here?
Aggrieved? Not really. I was hoping for more from a promising test series (NZ v France) than it to be wrecked by a series of poor reffing decisions. That’s all - it’s only rugby, and this is a rugby thread.
Do you want a discussion about the commercial and sporting result of this weekends games, or just an argument about the small print of each ruling? (This being STW I think I know the answer.)
Red cards against the All Blacks
Benjamin Fall (France), Westpac Stadium, 2018
Damian de Allende (South Africa), Cape Town, 2017
Bismarck du Plessis (South Africa), Eden Park, 2013
Jamie Heaslip (Ireland), New Plymouth, 2012
Simon Shaw (England), Eden Park, 2004
Jean-Jacques Crenca (France), Athletic Park, 1999
Danny Grewcock (England), Carisbrook 1998
Andre Venter (South Africa), Eden Park, 1997
Bill Cavubati (Fiji), Albany, 1997
Huw Richards (Wales), Brisbane, 1987Red cards from the All Blacks
Cyril Brownlie (vs England), Twickenham Stadium, 1925
Colin Meads (vs Scotland), Murrayfield, 1967
Sonny Bill Williams (vs British & Irish Lions), Westpac Stadium, 2017
This makes interesting reading in view of Fall’s card. A lot of the reds against the ABs are for actual violence - maybe a result of frustration at playing a better team?
Huw Richards was the one who got a red after getting up following being knocked out by a punch fro behind by Buck Shelford wasnt he?
Do you want a discussion about the commercial and sporting result of this weekends games, or just an argument about the small print of each ruling?
I’d say (and I don’t read every one) that I generally agree with the rulings of citing commissioners (although less with the punishments handed out sometimes) but I think they’ve got this one wrong. By bringing intent into the decision, they’ve set a dangerous precedent because red-cardable offences concerning player safety are not supposed to give weight to the “intent” of the player committing the offence.
Small print sometimes matters. IMO (not that it matters a jot) player safety has been compromised a bit by this decision. Sorry if you’re a bit bored of discussing it.
Intent shouldn’t be a factor, as defined in the laws, but sometimes that’s the only way to look at it.
If both players had run into each other there would be no need for this debate. The problem starts when one player jumps - and current rulings say that all other players must take care of the airborne player. Barrett is the player who made the situation hazardous but Fall is meant to give way, despite not being aware that Barrett is in the air because he is clearly only watching the ball.
I will continue to disagree with you and the rules on this. I think they have gone too far with protecting players in the air - if they want to jump for the ball they should expect other players to be also contesting. (As long as it’s a fair contest, of course.)