[Closed] Rugby Thread 2017/18.

Oh, and agreed about Wyn-Jones...he's only Welsh player I'd have in the green machine. Really good 6N from him.

he’s only Welsh player I’d have in the green machine.

Faletau? He's better than Stander and more Irish than Stander!!!He was bloody good today too. That outside break where he burnt the French back row was awesome.

England – did anyone really put in a good performance? Robshaw worked very hard for not a lot.

Daly did pretty well today, and last week. Two tries with that donkey Farrell at 10 😉

Othervthan that, not much to be cheerful about as an England fan.

Who would you drop DD Ryan or Hendo?

Scotland?

Over all a decent 6 n - won 3 games, Beat England which is a real bonus as its been a while.  3rd place finish - thats improving each year.  Next year 2nd, 2020 we win!

Gray junior immense as ever - I am going to look up his stats in a bit. Barclay - the captain we have needed and what a 6N he had.  Nice to find another centre in Grigg as well the rate we keep on breaking them.  Watson a great series although heavily watched but he and barclay were an absolute pest in every game.

Townsend made some selection errors but also a couple of good moves and his subs were great and tactics pretty good

Somehow Horne seems to add so much for such a limited player - he should have started today with Grigg as impact sub.  Swinson - I have no idea how he keeps getting selected - Big Ritchie was fit to play today and should have started.

overall 7/10 for me.  would have been 8 if they hadn't imploded against Wales

Probably Ryan BM (when Hendo's at full fitness), but y'know who would you drop from from a Grand Slam winning side, eh? And one that did it the "hard" way... 🙂 Wyn-Jones could be a finisher perhaps.

Townsend made some selection errors

I love the way the people on here know better than the coaches 😉

Tj do you think Scotland have Gatland to thank for coming third? They did very well to beat England, but everybody seems to agree the England players looked tired following the Lions tour.

Guass - its much easier in hindsight.  He twice played centres out of position

Gatland / Lions?  Itsdidn't seem to affect the welsh players that much and its not so much the english on th lions tour I have issue with - its the welsh 😉

I think not having players on the lions did help Scotland tho for sure

Guass – its much easier in hindsight. He twice played centres out of position

I think it’s harsh to call them selection errors, because with hindsight you’ve decided Scotland would have done better with a  different selection. Surely a coach has to pick the best team with the information they have. Your choice could have done far worse than Townsend’s under the circumstances Townsend foresaw, or even those on the actual day. I know nothing about player positions, but I would presume Townsend knows more than both of us - you like him as a coach, perhaps you should have some faith in him.

Itsdidn’t seem to affect the welsh players that much and its not so much the english on th lions tour I have issue with – its the welsh

Not so sure; they have/had injuries to lots of their better players; Faletau, Warbs, JD2.

The welsh team interests me; lots of good players returning to wales next season to try and get a shout; Rhodri and Jordan from Bris being two. Great lads and very good players. Be nice to see them kick on.

Gauss - it think with hindsight he would admit as much over the centres.  call it experiments that didn't work then.  Toonie is very early in his coaching career and he will improve

Both times when he made the subs the cohesion of the backs improved.  I can see why he tried it  Peter Horne is really a limited  player so toonie didn't want to start him but he seems to have something scotland need.

Well - a quick dig into the stats.  ickle jonny disappointing - he missed 3 tackles this 6N - mind you he made 95!  also 52 carries and 25 passes.  I bet no other player was involved in the game more or has stats to come close to that.

Well – a quick dig into the stats

Fascinating.

What rugby needs is more statistics.

Yup - lots more.  the one I really would like to see is 40 m and 60 m sprint times - we argue a lot over who is the fastest 😉

I bet no other player was involved in the game more or has stats to come close to that.

Or is as slow! 😂

I can't think of much that would be duller.

I end up watching a lot of sport in America, where endless analysts froth over someone having a rushing average of 0.291 yards more than someone else.  Bugger me, it's tedious. Watching the play, watching the game, that's what's interesting.

Stats and gym reps will ruin rugby one day. Sidesteps and sideburns, that's what we want. Dazzling steps, last gasp tip tackles (Key Turls put in a superb one today), big hits (NotToby last week) and imaginative play. No one cares who's faster over 40 or 60 (what's wrong with 50?).

Yup - one of the funniest moments of the whole series for me was watching him make a clean break and got 5 yards clear and no support around him - he was caught in 10 yards.  Mind yo a good few england forwards are more carthorse than racehorse

Oh I agree about over analysis of stats and they don't tell the whole story but many of us find them interesting.

The return fixture will be in Dublin next year and you can have a whinge for the third year in a row.

And I’ll keep whingeing until Ireland stop being given special dispensation to have a ceilidh whenever they play at home. I quite like ‘Hey Jude’ as a sing-song, so can we have a rendition of that every time we play at Twickenham?

FWIW Ireland are currently a brilliant rugby team. Flair when needed, pragmatic when needed, top game management and precision when administering a killer blow. You don’t need all that “we’re so damned spiritual we need two anthems” bullshit. How did it ever get started in the first place?

Stander made more yards than the whole England team in the first half.

#Fascinating

How did it ever get started in the first place?

Oh man, really?

First time I've  posted on a rugger thread, but there are fewer things I dislike more than rugby culture and one of those is hubris.  To see those mighty lads and their pompous coach come a proper cropper should warm the cockles of every true Englishman's heart.

Itsdidn’t seem to affect the welsh players that much

Apart from JD2, Warburton, Webb, Falerau, Moriarty and Liam all injured at the start of the six nations. Some still injured.

Injuries?  from a smaller base of players Scotland were missing at the start

Nel, Bergin, Brown, Fagerson in the front row plus a couple of others who might have played

Scott, Bennett, Dunbar, Taylor in the centres.

Plus a few others.  Everyone was affected by injuries

And I’ll keep whingeing until Ireland stop being given special dispensation to have a ceilidh whenever they play at home.

I think all rational people agree with you that they should only be one anthem in Ireland and it's the Soldiers Song, fortunately brexit is making it more likely 😉

"spiritual" yes that's why they do it.

I’ll just leave this here for...

https://twitter.com/ulsterrugby/status/975058075798384640?s=21

...BlindMelon 🙂

Who cares if they have a sing song? I don't really think that the soldiers song is very inclusive though, I'd hope that a united Ireland could find something acceptable to ALL citizens.

Anthems?  I would prefer that Ireland use only Irelands call but given the political sensitivities I am happy to let the IRFU / the players decide.  Tonga, fiji and NZ have their dance before games.  England use the UK anthem - how wrong is that?  England need a new anthem ( I'd go for Jerusalem).  Flower of Scotland is a dreadful dirge and has no real history being written in the 60s as a deliberate attempt to write an anthem.  French have the best words for their anthem and Italy the best tune ( but the words are awful )

Kuilo - the soldiers song is not liked in NI hence its only sung for games in the republic

Tj I kinda knew that ( my mother is from Ulster)

Oh man, really?

Yeah man, really.

I’m not talking about the plantation of Ulster or the potato famine or the role of English landowners in the famine or any of the other numerous examples of English brutality in Ireland. I acknowledge fully the cack-handed at best, downright crooked at worst role of England in a lot of the historic troubles in Ireland. Exactly what this has to do with the ceremonials before a game of rugby is something someone else will have to explain to me. Sure it has a bit to do with the passion on the field. No problem there. But when did Ireland first decide ‘sod it, let’s have two anthems’ at a rugby match and when did the IRB officially sanction it? I think we will find it is about as ‘traditional’ as ‘traditional’ scarecrow festivals in some villages which have been a ‘tradition’ for all of ten years.

I am a passionate England cricket supporter and I am embarrassed when they line up to sing Jerusalem before a game. There is no tradition of it, there is no need for it, and it is just there for the Johnny Come Latelys. I think we are already at the stage where a number of supporters would watch a 40-39 thriller in Cardiff or London or Edinburgh and bemoan the state of the pre-match fireworks if they didn’t deem them up to scratch.

This is Sport we are talking about here. Something to get ‘passionate’ and excited about. No need to drag a load of other baggage into it.

Well done Ireland. Worthy Grand Slam winners, and that drop goal against France was truly a stellar moment. No second anthem is going to come close to that on-field moment.

If you don't understand why they use Irelands Call then learn some history.  It was written as a non political anthem for the Irish rugby team.  If they shoiuld drop anything it should be the Irish hational anthem - the soldiers song.

And why on earth do england think they can use the UK anthem?

I would prefer that Ireland use only Irelands call but given the political sensitivities I am happy to let the IRFU / the players decide.

Decide. Yes, great.

Not piss about for ages with two.

You might have guessed by now that I like to watch sport when I tune in to sport. Posturing and pomp and ceremony are soemthing to be fast forwarded through if I’ve recorded it.

Bored now.

If you must sing a song, then choose one, sing it and get on with the game.

If I am missing something to do with symbolism here then good. This is a game and something that can be and should be appreciated in its own right.

Do what I do then - turn the telly on at the kick off.  I never watch any of the pre match nonsense

Are yo going to stop NZ from the Haka as well?  and what about englands use of the UK anthem?

And why on earth do england think they can use the UK anthem?

Actually, I’ll just pop an opinion in on that one.......

No idea. It’s a crap tune and I’d rather they didn’t use it at all. At least they’ve got the sense to use the one-verse version to keep it to a minimum.

This really isn’t an anti-Ireland rant. It is an anti “sport as ‘experience’ (vomit)” rant. Love a game, understand a game, support a team, but don’t ever let bias get in the way of appreciating good play.

Again, as an England cricket supporter I could bow to the muckier end of the sporting press and condemn Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis as ball-tampering cheats. In actual fact, I am in awe at their skill in rescuing fast bowling from becoming a mind-numbing game of chicken.

Yeah, I’d take TJ’s advice and just switch on for the kick-off, the times being well publicised. Or watch the pre-match stuff and go and make a cup of chamomile tea while the anthems are on if they rile you up that much.

I think there’s another thread for stick-ball somewhere btw. 🙂

Meanwhile in a move that isnt going to cheer up England supporters as they wait for the AA to come and fix their chariots.Erasmus has announced he will pick "the best players available"  for the Summer tests against England, so ending their 30 cap rule. Thats a whole back division plus off the top of my head a couple of tight 5 units. And Vermeulen and a repaired Low in the back row. Im delighted, I want to see the best players playing for their countries. In what is a short career, why shouldn't players maximise their earnings?

Who gives a **** what Ireland sing! Really get a sense of perspective!

IRB rankings after the weekends games

NEW ZEALAND   93.99
IRELAND             89.11
ENGLAND           86.23
AUSTRALIA        85.49
SCOTLAND         83.83
SOUTH AFRICA   83.81
WALES                83.41
FRANCE             79.10
ARGENTINA       78.2

Makes for  fine reading for Scotland and looks about right.  NZ still well clear, Ireland the best of the rest and pulling clear of the chasing pack, England dropping back into the chasing pack.  very little between 3rd and 7th

From an England perspective I’d only be more than 50% confident in beating South Africa and Argentina on that list.

Makes for  fine reading for Scotland and looks about right.

How does it compare to the Six Nations table?

Wales beat the two teams directly above them last time they played! The world rankings are largely bollocks. Scotland havent won anything meaningful in decades and in competitive games regularly get smashed away from home. I wouldnt press the point with others and I have no axe to grind with Scotland but your constant over estimating of the team gets pretty tiresome.

So who is the coach of the tournament?

Connor o Shea who has the Italy trying to play a different game, and generally improving.

Mr Gatland who is quietly creating a very capable world cup challenging team

Mr Townsend, improving on  Vern's work and expanding

Jacques Brunel, meh see what the autumn brings but a slowly improving French side that looks to be more expansive

Or

Mr Schmidt, tactical brilliance abounds

I have discounted Mr Jones for not adapting to the game, his game plan has been dire and possibly his player management as well.

I would have imho given the resources to hand

Mr Townsend

Nope - I'd have Schmidt

For me townsend had a mixed bag.  He made some experiments that didn't work and a couple of frankly baffling selections.

Playing Jones and Harries in the centre against Wales did not work nor did playing Grigg and Jones.  I understand why he did it but with 20 / 20 hindsight it was the wrong call. Swinson selection was particularly baffling - he has never done anything in a Scotland shirt.  Schmidt on the other hand got everything pretty much spot on and his team was the only one to really show significant improvement.

AA - so when did Wales last beat a SH side away?  Scotland have done in the last couple of years and have beaten every team in the top 10 bar NZ in the last two years 😉

Scotland remain inconsistent yes and are still an improving team.  Rankings are slow to react but are a very good indicator of the teams relative positions.  In truth there is very little between Wales and Scotland right now - and thats what the rankings show

Its odd, how some of us including me lambasted Ford last week only to see Englands shape improve when he came on this week.  I think he’ll have proven we need him for an attacking game.

I can’t help wondering if there’s too much “trickery” being attempted.  Vis a vis Eddie teaching them to do this and that little point of differences where instead focus on basic Rugby skills would be better.  Are they all hanging back not doing anything thinking “any time now and we’ll play EJX01 on phase 3 just like he told us”?

Look at the phase play - Ireland just able to recycle, eat up the clock and find an opportunity to march forward whilst England a few phases and then pinged or wasted.  No one is particularly worried about Englands forwards as they all know its a matter of minutes before they get the ball back.  Pretty much the only England player that didn’t look like a cardboard cutout was Daly.   Compare him with Kruis who didn’t have a bad game but we know is off form - did Kruis look any worse that the England forwards?  No.  Which to me means the rest of the forwards have slide down to Kruis current level, rather than Kruis having a storming game against the run of form.  Armand is basically a 3rd level international, and was on par with the performance as well.

IMO Eddie needs to mix this team up in SA with a few to bring a few “star” performers into the team in the next 12 months.  This lot look as thought their on their way to retirement this 6N.  It doesn’t need reinvention, just an injection of enthusiasm and a will to win beyond the coaching instructions.

Schmidt has done very well but the refs allowing turnovers by players resting on their elbows or going past the ball and gabbing it when driven backwards has played into his teams strengths. Safety first one out drives, they play some nice stuff when on the front foot but I'd prefer to see more expansive rugby rewarded. Takes nothing away from Irelands achievement though or Schmidts coaching.

Scotland have done in the last couple of years and have beaten every team in the top 10 bar NZ in the last two years

In friendlies, how did you get on in Cardiff this season, or Dublin or Twickers last season?

Now now AA - you may prefer the look of the 6N table - let me enjoy the rankings and Scotlands best result in the 6N for a generation.  Wales are only second 'cos of french missing goal kicks and of course their friendly well paid refs 😉

So when did Wales last beat an SH team away from home?

Can we call a truce on this for now AA - it amuses you and me but annoys the other posters 😉

you may prefer the look of the 6N table – let me enjoy the rankings and Scotlands best result in the 6N for a generation.

TBH the six nations table doesnt interest me tbh. Wales have tested out some new players and some players have stood up well. We now have two capable front rows, none of the players are world beaters but they can hold their own in the scrums and defend well. We'll never have a dominant front five. Cory Hill did a passable impression of an international lock but we would be screwed if AWJ got injured or retired. Hopefully Seb Davies can step up. We have some great depth at openside flanker with Warburton to hopefully come back. 6 is weaker but Shingler or Moriarty are decent and Warburton coming back can play 6 well. At 8 we have Faletau who is Wales best player and then we have to draft in flankers. At 9 we have to find a way of keeping Webb in the team as Davies is good going forward but poor at the basics behind him we have some very average players, maybe Tomis Williams can step up. 10 remains a mystery, Biggar is still the player for a dog fight but not to progress our game and Patch and Anscombe seem a bit below whats needed. Centres are very weak, Jiffy Jnr coming back will help but we need more depth here and more speed, want to see Owen Lane at 13. Wings are OK and so is fullback.

In summary a hard carrying prop and lock or two would transform the team but we dont have them.

Kryton - for me this 6N is chickens coming home to roost for England - this has been building for a while IMO and without some fundamental changes england will continue to slide

Issues ( all broad brush generalisations and of course merely my opinion and yo know what they say about opinions)

the PRL control the english game too much and flog the players.  NO player can play every game in a season.  20 odd games is enough.  the pro 14 teams look after their players better on the whole and use the club game to support the internationals so our players are at their best for the 6N.  England players looked tired and jaded

Too much safety first rugby in the ap - hence the not playing for turnovers at the breakdown in comparison to the celtic teams who went for cleverer jackling not stopping doing it it

An unwillingness to take chances generally.  Scotland were forced into playing some real youngsters in the last couple of years and its worked well for them.  England seem to not want to risk giving mavericks and youngsters a chance

Too much emphasis on strength and weight not speed.  I bet Watson was the lightest forward by several stone in the Calcutta cup match but he was a big part of the win.

too little creativity.  everything is so predictable from england.  Over prescriptive coaching or a lack of on field brains?

It what universe are Scotland a better team than Wales,scotland an improving team? what like a glacier changes:)

I bet Watson was the lightest forward by several stone in the Calcutta cup match

Watson is an interesting player to me in that he is obviously a good 7 at the breakdown but he carries very well for a little bloke. I think its a tactical issue for Scotland that they use him as a front line carrier close in and tbf fair does well but he is too small to be regularly succesful theyd be better using him wider and less often then it would be a surprise and make more impact. Too many teams were waiting for him this season.

Aye - its funny when he gets caught by a big guy and thrown backwards

How about a six nations team.

Hogg

Fall

Ringaringaroses

Bastardau

That Irish Donkey

Sexton

Murray

Stander

Leavey

Shingler

AWJ

Henderson

Furlong

Best

Vunipola (based on the fact I cant stand Healey)

TJ - I think it’s a combination of lots of things.

Relegation forces a safety first approach to the AP, lose a few games are you’re very quickly close to the relegation dog fight. Look at Northampton; they’re not that many points above Worcester.

I think the traditional forward dominance that we’ve had means many coaches rely on lumps to batter people. Look at Exeter; they rely massively on a big lumpy back, retaining possession and smashing people. Look at ok how many tries Waldron scored last season.

The injury issues at teams like Sarries, who are traditionally very good at rotating players mean that guys like Mako and Itoje have played an awful lot of rugby this season after a busy Lions tour (short with lots of games) mean they’re shagged. Compare the amount of game time that Farrell has played compared to Sexton; it’s almost double. The Irish set up in particular allows for their plates to be reall really well looked after.

I think some of it is down to how Jones coaches teams because he’s well known for flogging guys to death. Daly who has been broken looked a lot fresher than the other guys.

The other thing is that Jones has slipped into the Lancaster mindset of being a few years out from the WC and ‘knowing’ his team which means he’s ignored from etc. What happened to the coach not scared to see b people before half time to if they were playing poorly? He supposedly watches games all of the time so must have seen how the English teams got dicked at the breakdown in Europe this year. That should have been a warning sign.

AA - you know what with your 6N team - I would have 1/2p in there at fb - his defensive position has been great and a team of the 6N does  it need Hoggs attacking threat?  He was not as good this year as the last 2 years anyway so this year I'd have 1/2p.

Ickle Jonny has to be in there.  Its a nonsense team if its not got the best NH lock.  😉  NO room for Barclay?  IMO the player of the series.

so that would be my 3 changes from your team - 1/2p, Gray junior and Barclay

Although the other way to look at is take the ireland team and add players who would improve it.  Hard to see many others actually get in using that criteria

Strength in depth

I think all scotland fans were really fearful of what injuries would do for us this 6N.  However over the last couple of years injuries have forced us to play alternatives and many of them have looked the part.  Its one real bonus for scotland - we really are approaching a situation where subs do not reduce the quality much.  The only players we really cannot replace are Russell ( but on this years display Horne is not really far behind) and Watson - cos there is not another player in the world like him and he is very important to how we play.  I don't think he would be nearly as effective wider out.  He needs to be in close.  Remember he does not have a size advantage over most backs!  I think the way the more experienced players in the scottish teams often move on in their 20s really helps our strength in depth as it creates chances for youngsters.  Take Russell.  Yes his moving to France will hurt Glasgow in the short term but it means Hastings will get first team starts next season at 10 - a big ask for  young man but it should help him develop more quickly.  If Biggar had moved on a couple of years ago how much more experiences would Sam Davies be now?  Russell started getting regular Glasgow starts at 19 / 20 IIRC

I'd definitely have Barclay in over Shingler, potentially Falatau in over Stander too? Otherwise it's hard to argue with that team for me. Honourable mention to Negri from Italy as he has had a great tournament.

Paul rees in the grauniads team  well worth a laugh

15 Minozzi (Italy); 14 Earls(Ireland), 13 H Jones (Scotland), 12 Farrell (England), 11 Stockdale (Ireland); 10 Sexton (Ireland),  9 Murray (Ireland); 1 Healy (Ireland), 2 Guirado (France), 3 Furlong (Ireland), 4 Henderson (Ireland), 5 AW Jones (Wales), 6 Shingler (Wales), 7 Camara (France), 8 Stander (Ireland)

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Jones the only Scot?  did he watch the games?  Farrell at 12?  gruaniad rugby writers have a long history of disregarding scottish rugby

I'd like to find a place for McInally at hooker - I thought he had a great series.

World rankings mean less now than at any other time. This time last year they mattered, with seeding and WC groups to sort but not now. Worth nothing.

Six nations table too. It's probably the least important of the 4 year cycle , it's the perfect tournament for bit of experimenting and blooding youngsters. Get the plan together this year then build momentum and confidence next.

Grand slams a bit different mind

"Jones the only Scot?  did he watch the games?"

Sounds about right. Only one Italian too and given the last round of matches Scotland and Italy were more or less on a par.

It's fun choosing 'teams of the tournament' or whatever but at the end of the day you could pick the 15 best players in the world but they wouldn't necessarily make a winning team.

That said, there's positives for most. Scotland and Wales really built some depth where they had injuries. And scored tries.

And France were just a couple of kicks away from two more wins. They look in a great place to challenge next year an really get their shit together just in time for the WC again. Really glad Ireland haven't got them in group again, they'll be brutal.

And England are a different team with Billy V.  They'll be better next time.

I’d definitely have Barclay in over Shingler, potentially Falatau in over Stander too?

Faletau is a better player than Stander but injury meant he only had ine big performance. Barclay is the 3rd best flanker at Scarlets!!!

To be honest Barclay gives away too many pens. Was rubbish v Wales and Ireland.

Guirado is a good shout from Guardian, some of the others rubbish.

Team of the tournament is Ireland's 23 from yesterday. Player of the tournament James Ryan. Or maybe that outside center who sent Bundee through with that little switch pass for the Stander try.

psling - sure its hard to argue for any more scots bar Barclay but Jones at 13?  He was not the best 13 on show.

If Biggar had moved on a couple of years ago how much more experiences would Sam Davies be now?

Not much more, he's not good enough anyway.

Falletau s a great player but it wasn't his Tournament  this time.

Guirado and Bastero would be next in line as Irish ' finishers'.

"Team of the tournament is Ireland’s 23 from yesterday."

Ireland definitely played the best rugby of the tournament imo but...

if Sexton's glorious drop goal didn't go over in round 1 and

if the TMO had picked up Kearney's left hand knock on and England had slotted their kicks then

Ireland would be near the bottom of the table! What ifs, eh!

Having said the above [tongue in cheek!], Ireland are indeed worthy Grand Slam winners and still a developing team.

If you think of what other teams players woulod improve Ireland its pretty hard to swap many .  Barclay?  Ickle Jonny / AWJ  Beyond those two ( Grey/ AWJ one of them can take one lock place) its hard for me to see a single player from any other team that would improve ireland and those are arguable

" – sure its hard to argue for any more scots bar Barclay but Jones at 13?  He was not the best 13 on show."

I get the impression that quite often when these types of team lists are made they select the forwards, the half-backs and a full back then make  up the numbers!

Do you select attacking flair, defensive solidity, a play maker, a dead-cert kicking machine (look at No. 10 Trinh-Duc yesterday, 100% record previously).

Thank goodness everyone's opinions are different really.

In this case I think ( given the Guardians history on scottish rugby) its was more a case of - we have to put a scot in - Jones scored some tries - he will do.  Usually they put Hogg in

psling, I am with you on this.

One of the things that has pissed me off about the english press over the years is that every little win we have  is hailed as agreat display by the uncommony brilliant red rose heros, and I know that really pisses off the other countries too. Oftentimes our wins are down to marginal calls by the ref or tiny mistakes, but the plaudits are massive and the losers vilified. I never enjoy it even on the winning side, it feels delusional.

I feel much the same about this destruction in the press, here and on social media. We lost due to, some bad ref calls, some bad luck, and obviously some bad play, and loss of  confidence. However I do no feel that this team is dead in the water and I would caution anyone to bet against them in the next game.

Not main stream thinking but I would look to squeeze North in at 14 though he'd probably make an excellent wing-forward too!

AA - barlay was not rubbish against Ireland  28 tackles.  He was immense all series.  He also only gave away 4 penalties all series.  For me man of the series.  His captaincy and turnovers /work rate were cruicial

If you think of what other teams players woulod improve Ireland its pretty hard to swap many .  Barclay?  Ickle Jonny / AWJ  Beyond those two ( Grey/ AWJ one of them can take one lock place) its hard for me to see a single player from any other team that would improve ireland and those are arguable

A number of fullbacks better than Kearney and a few wingers better than Earls, Bundee Aki is nothing special. Irish pack and halfbacks would be hard to improve on though.

barlay was not rubbish against Ireland  28 tackles.  He was immense all series.  He also only gave away 4 penalties all series.  For me man of the series.  His captaincy and turnovers /work rate were cruicial

Crucial to attaining 3rd place, great. I like Barclay, he plays for my favourite team after all but he's not that brilliant a player. Good international, not stand out world class, gives away too many pens.

After Jones said that some of yesterday’s team have played their last game for England, any guesses who he’s referring to? Some contenders off the top of my head:

Hartley?

Haskell?

Wigglesworth?

Joseph?