[Closed] roundabouts!

In an ideal world, you'd be in the left lane on the roundabout before you got there.

These here helical roundabout jobbies are the future, anyway. There's [url= http://g.co/maps/ahngu ]one near me[/url], it's just a shame that most people ignore the paint and try and kill me daily anyway, much as per Graham's diagram.

[img] [/img]

End of thread perchance?

as well as strange orange flashing lights in that highway code diagram it looks like a car approaching the roundabout is braking presumably expecting to have to stop - now i'm old and do that but impression i have is that majority accelerate into a roundabout expecting traffic on the roundabout to slow only performing an emergency stop if encountering a truck doing the same thing

antigee: A (police) friend of mine once opined that if you have to drop below 3rd to take a roundabout then you've "failed" 😀

Just arguing with the wife the other day about indicating. I don't drive very often and always indicate whenever I'm turning anywhere. She drives every day and indicates when she feels she needs to, but doesn't see any connection between that and other drivers not indicating when they should.

Like most things to do wth driving we have protocols because people don't have perfect judgment, and yet many drivers think they're above them.

It has very clearly painted lanes on it, with arrows and words.

Now the nobbers know where they are supposed to be but ignore it to overtake traffic (mostly going SA but use RH lane to beat the queue)

Nothing is more satisfying than seeing some tool try this and get blocked out, so that they either have to go right or just sit there indicating to get back in.

Nothing is more satisfying than seeing some tool try this and get blocked out

[i]Like most things to do wth driving we have protocols because people don't have perfect judgment, and yet many drivers think they're above them.[/i]

True, but I think there's something in not indicating if it's not of benefit to others or if it's a risk to yourself.

Certainly on a bicycle I'd rarely indicate left, as it's often an invite for someone to move into a space that isn't really there.

True, but I think there's something in not indicating if it's not of benefit to others or a a risk to yourself.

Yesssssss.... justified! 😀

Certainly on a bicycle I'd rarely indicate left, as it's often an invite for someone to move into a space that isn't really there.

Major to minor junction; I was told (on the MC) to indicate left, and stay in the center of your lane untill the junction (i.e. do what a car would do) so that thye dont have space to do anythign stupid.

Minor to major, pull into the edge at the give way line to allow right turners to pull up next to you. But thats just politeness as they can't go anywhere untill theres room to turn left anyway.

[i]Major to minor junction; I was told (on the MC) to indicate left, and stay in the center of your lane untill the junction (i.e. do what a car would do) so that thye dont have space to do anythign stupid.[/i]

That still leaves the problem of cars coming the opposite way on major intending to turn right into minor.
Car sees you indicate left, thinks - 'Ah I can turn right now as bicycle is turning left', but fails to take into account that the bike will be taking up quite a bit of the minor that the car is now trying to occupy. Safer simply not to let them have the option of entertaining the thought in the first place imo.

indicating splits the camps doesnt it!

my advanced instructor told me to indicate only when it was of benefit to others, both car and pedestrian. I believe the thinking was it becomes habit and not a reaction to whats going on around you.

Cougar - Member
In an ideal world, you'd be in the left lane on the roundabout before you got there.

These here helical roundabout jobbies are the future, anyway. There's one near me, it's just a shame that most people ignore the paint and try and kill me daily anyway, much as per Graham's diagram.

The Whitebirk roundabout has improved since being widened & traffic lights installed etc.

The problem one is at the junction of the A678/Whitebirk Rd/Burnley Rd, just off the botton L/H of the picture. A678 has 2 lanes, inner lane marked with left turn arrows for going up Whitebirk Rd, outer lane with straight on arrows for going up Burnley Rd.

Easy to understand you'd think. But no, i've lost count of the numbers of drivers that take the left hand lane & go straight on at the roundabout to go up Burnley Rd.

I believe the thinking was it becomes habit and not a reaction to whats going on around you.

I was certainly taught to have a think before indicating.

e.g. someone coming up on your right when you need to overtake then don't start indicating until they have passed, otherwise they might think you haven't seen them and have a panic.

Sadly the more common approach seems to be [i]Signal-Begin Manoeuvre-Mirror[/i].

Dolcered - Member
indicating splits the camps doesnt it!

my advanced instructor told me to indicate only when it was of benefit to others, both car and pedestrian

Exactly that 😀

It's one of those subjects that I tend to cover in detail over several sessions, signals are part of the information phase of the system (of car control) and need to be considered at every phase 😀

In other words you should always consider using a signal and in doing so think about why and if that information could be misconstrued (don't get me started on head lamp flashing!)

For example: you intend to take the second of two junctions close on the left and there is a car pulling out of the first, don't indicate left before the first one, the car may pull out.

On this basis I always teach you should signal when:

1. .. it would benefit another road user
2. ..you are changing direction or speed and need to make your intentions clear
3. ..to do so would comply with the Highway Code
4. ..to do so as part of a systematic approach of dealing with an unpredicatable environment
5.. it leaves nothing to chance
6. ..it takes account of the 'critical man' (i.e. someone looking out of a window who say's "look at that police car it didn't indicate at that junction")

Signalling 'indiscriminantly' can be as bad as 'not signalling at all'

Mirror indicate manoeuvre for every vehicle all the time.

The problem one is at the junction of the A678/Whitebirk Rd/Burnley Rd, just off the botton L/H of the picture.

Yep - I travel that twice a day usually. You're not quite right though, I don't think; it's actually three lanes by the time you get to the roundabout, two onto the roundabout and one that either takes you left up Whitebirk Drive [i]or onto the first lane of the roundabout [/i](see http://g.co/maps/wh5hh ).

Where I come unstuck is, the middle / right lane feeds into two lanes on the roundabout, round it, and off onto the M65. Pretty much daily, someone will get onto the roundabout from the middle lane and swing across into the right hand lane (from the vantage point [url= http://g.co/maps/8346d ]here[/url] to where the silver car in front is), causing me to have to brake / accelerate / change lanes to avoid a collision. Sounding the horn invariably makes not a jot of difference.

Mirror indicate manoeuvre for every vehicle all the time.

So you're dismissing the notion that signals can sometimes be unhelpful or easily misconstrued?

So you're dismissing the notion that signals can sometimes be unhelpful or easily misconstrued?

No, He's saying that swerveing blindly into the next lane is a bad idea.

The mirror bit is looking the mirror/arround you, decided if the manouver you want to complete is safe, then signal your intentions. Your post implies that either you mirror, signal, manouver without thinking or you don't signal, please clarify why you think thats right?

Cougar: yep, basically the opposite side of the problem I see. Seems some folk just completely ignore the painted lanes for some reason.

I sometimes wonder what would be required: flashing electronic coloured catseyes maybe with a big sign saying "Road A: Follow Green, Road B: Follow Red" or perhaps bollards that pop up between the lanes to "discourage" random lane changes.

Your post implies that either you mirror, signal, manouver without thinking or you don't signal, please clarify why you think thats right?

Does it? Sorry. That wasn't my intent.

I was advocating [i]more[/i] thinking. Some drivers seem to just [i]Mirror-Signal[/i] as one action (or even [i]Signal-Mirror[/i] as I said) rather than looking in the [i]Mirror[/i] and deciding the point at which it is best to start the [i]Signal[/i], and then when to start the [i]Manoeuvre[/i]*

*Thank fox for spellcheckers.

The point was that just blindly signalling can be just as dangerous as not signalling.

(by the way, I'm not proclaiming to be a driving expert. Far from it. I'm relatively new to driving and only have a basic car license. But other drivers still have me scratching my head most days).

True, but I think there's something in not indicating if it's not of benefit to others or if it's a risk to yourself.

Just to clarify, as others have pointed out there are situations where indicating [i]at the wrong time[/i] can confuse other people so obviously you need to take account of that. OTOH decising whether to indicate at all after weighing up all the factors is fine if you're aware of all the factors which I'd say people rarely are.

So what's your verdict on spiral roundabouts then MrSalmon?

Should you still be indicating right when the new lanes start appearing at your right, leaving you in the middle lane (e.g. [url= http://g.co/maps/abmg4 ]here[/url]) or might that just confuse drivers behind you?

I think if I was going to indicate right on this roundabout then I'd probably cancel it at that point anyway, then start indicating left as soon as I was past the last exit before mine.

Tandemjeremy no you know it is actually maneouvre, signal with middle finger?

Oh and what about all the wa**** who indicate left ALL the way around a roundabout BUFOONS!! there are too many people on the roads who need re-assessments!

Should you still be indicating right when the new lanes start appearing at your right, leaving you in the middle lane (e.g. here) or might that just confuse drivers behind you?

I was told to indicate right untill you need to indicate left.

There's a roundabout in Darlington on one of the town center test routes where you have to be in the left hand lane with the right indicator on in order to turn left imediately after leaving the roundabout (which is technicaly the 2nd exit, but they still tell you to put the right hand indicator on which I got told off for doing on another darlington raoundabout!). Apparently if you get that route the examiner will tell you the exact instructions rather than let you get lost!

you have to be in the left hand lane with the right indicator on in order to turn left imediately after leaving the roundabout (which is technicaly the 2nd exit

Huuuh??? Google Maps link?

On an unmarked roundabout, if I'm going straight on, I look in my mirrors to see if someone is behind/beside me and then take the shortest route across the roundabout using both "lanes"

The "racing line" if you must.

Is there a problem doing this?

What I mean is yo always indicate correctly even if you think you are the only vehicle on the road. You don't decide not to indicate because there is no one to see.

Of course inappropriate signalling is wrong - but not signalling is wrong as well

Munqe-chick - Member

Tandemjeremy no you know it is actually maneouvre, signal with middle finger?

I once gave a plain police car the finger 😳 I was riding without lights as well. I got rather a bollocking

I think if I was going to indicate right on this roundabout then I'd probably cancel it at that point anyway, then start indicating left as soon as I was past the last exit before mine.

Basically this, but I'd probably keep indicating right until that point and then switch to left.

It's all bound up I suppose in how well people use the lanes generally and what people will read into the fact that you're in a particular lane. I guess the reality is though that the lane you're in doesn't really mean anything, or at least you can't assume that it does.

I guess the reality is though that the lane you're in doesn't really mean anything, or at least you can't assume that it does.

Ironically if everyone did actually use the lanes on those spiral roundabouts properly then their lane would convey ALL the information required and no signals would be needed at all* - but obviously this would never happen.

(*except maybe in unusual circumstances like a cyclist going all the way round in the outside lane)

[img] [/img]

God! I had to drive over that twice a day for three weeks. Craziness.
Acceleration is a good tool.

I really like those roundabouts where the left lane is for the first exit only, like them there spiral roundabouts above. Makes it so simple.
Problems arise with getting in the correct lane when you don't know the road, and the lane markings are painted on the ground, underneath queuing traffic.

Yeah they are fond of those in Newcastle.
Especially the ones where the left lane never actually joins the roundabout at all and just skirts near it.

On an unmarked roundabout, if I'm going straight on, I look in my mirrors to see if someone is behind/beside me and then take the shortest route across the roundabout using both "lanes"

The "racing line" if you must.

Is there a problem doing this?

No. I was explicitly told to do it by an advanced instructor. There's sod all point in not using all the road if there's no-one else using it. Same with twisty country lanes when visibility is good.

Cougar - Member

On an unmarked roundabout, if I'm going straight on, I look in my mirrors to see if someone is behind/beside me and then take the shortest route across the roundabout using both "lanes"

The "racing line" if you must.

Is there a problem doing this?

No. I was explicitly told to do it by an advanced instructor. There's sod all point in not using all the road if there's no-one else using it. Same with twisty country lanes when visibility is good.

A bit late, but, you need to be careful here. 'Straight lining' is an advanced technique and only gets taught once your observation and planning are up to scratch.

e.g. in the case of straightening twisty rural roads you need to be absolutely certain of what's ahead (same as you would before attempting an overtake) and there should be no-one following (who might follow your lead when it wouldn't be safe for them to do so) otherwise yes, use the full width of the road 🙂