Phone charging related fires are pretty low despite being a free for all
Mostly I suspect due to being lower power traditionally - I do wonder about the increased risk with modern high power chargers. It's not so much the charger itself as the cable - I've seen pics of someones bed that had started to catch fire with an apple laptop charger - it was a badly frayed cable that was actually the issue. I've had a normally sensible friend who was using a phone cable that had a bare conductor showing at my house that I had to take off him and bin.
I reckon a lot of the issues with e-scooters and Chinese e bikes are unsuitable power connectors (simple barrel connections) and no cable anchoring. All fine when new, no so much when it's been tripped over and trodden on in a hallway
It would be easy enough to insist as part of any type approval that the charger is actually part of the scooter/battery and that any external component which might be "inadvertently" swapped out, is simply a power supply to the charger
The issue with this being that people who want a cheap e-scooter, or indeed most electric devices, don’t really give a toss about type approval, they’re still going to buy whatever is cheap. The comparison between the importation of container loads of basically disposable crap and the odd importation of a grey market vehicle is pretty tenuous at best. Scooters don’t go through registration requiring individual type approval nor are they ever likely too.
The issue with scooters is not so much that they might have a fire (any electrical appliance might have a fire, as might any other power source) but that people will be somewhat wreckless about where they charge the scooter
I was under the impression that the problem is when the batteries ignite they burn spectacularly and are very hard to put out.
It would be easy enough to insist as part of any type approval that the charger is actually part of the scooter/battery and that any external component which might be "inadvertently" swapped out, is simply a power supply to the charger
The issue with this being that people who want a cheap e-scooter, or indeed most electric devices, don’t really give a toss about type approval, they’re still going to buy whatever is cheap. The comparison between the importation of container loads of basically disposable crap and the odd importation of a grey market vehicle is pretty tenuous at best. Scooters don’t go through registration requiring individual type approval nor are they ever likely too.
theres absolutely no reason if you legalise them that you wouldn't require type approval and actively enforce importation/sale against non approved units. Some would slip though but in less time than these have already been on the market you'd have 98+% complaince if the govrnment, trading standards and road police wanted it.
The issue with scooters is not so much that they might have a fire (any electrical appliance might have a fire, as might any other power source) but that people will be somewhat wreckless about where they charge the scooter
I was under the impression that the problem is when the batteries ignite they burn spectacularly and are very hard to put out.
Yes - but if that's in an outbuilding (preferably with a way to alert the owners to call the fire brigade) its a lot safer than blocking your only exit route. I'm pretty sure that good charging circuits (which e.g. monitor the cell temp) can significantly reduce the risk, and that casing designs can help get the excess heat away without it igniting anything else first. By their nature its very tempting/convenient to stick these just inside the door. If the battery had to be removed to charge it perhaps "we" would change them somewhere more sensible. But the problem is not unique to escooters - ebikes have the same risks, probably half the users of this forum have an ebike and its actually quite rare for them to burst into flames. IMO its not a good reason to prevent people using them on the roads.
ebikes have the same risks, probably half the users of this forum have an ebike and its actually quite rare for them to burst into flames.
I’d go further than that. There was an industry/journalist who looked into this and (as I remember it) couldn’t find any evidence that there had ever been a fire involving a traditional bike company/big motor supplier bike. They were all either DIY conversions or similarly sketchy Chinese bikes.
well made chargers. Batteries with protective circuits. Fit-for-purpose connectors (though the lack of cable anchoring in the mk1 Orbea rise cable was not great).
edit. Not quite as clear cut as I made out but here
Some would slip though but in less time than these have already been on the market you'd have 98+% complaince if the govrnment, trading standards and road police wanted it.
Sorry is there some evidence for that? Given, say, the amount of cars running around without MOTs or insurance, the weak state of trading standards and roads policing after years of austerity, the amount of already patently illegal e bikes on the road and the inability to restrict / prohibit the import of these dodgy scooter I find the idea of rigorous compliance to be in the just made up school of statements.
Some would slip though but in less time than these have already been on the market you'd have 98+% complaince if the govrnment, trading standards and road police wanted it.
Sorry is there some evidence for that? Given, say, the amount of cars running around without MOTs or insurance, the weak state of trading standards and roads policing after years of austerity, the amount of already patently illegal e bikes on the road and the inability to restrict / prohibit the import of these dodgy scooter I find the idea of rigorous compliance to be in the just made up school of statements.
IF... Compliance is about enforcement as well as brands doing the right thing.
There is a demand for urban transport that does not cost £1000s a year or need huge amounts of storage space and it's being fulfilled. E-scooters are a great product that can be made to low quality levels like anything, but enforcement is needed to support the regulations available. The compliance levels in main brand name shop-bought e-bikes is high, no reason to think e-scooters couldn't be the same. The problem is how e-bikes and scooters are easily bought off the shelf and imported by D2C brands who pop up and are gone again soon after.
Buyer beware, and imo the lowest level product available should not be the limiting factor for the whole category.
She should keep the short walks as the brief exercise will help counter the long hours.
And with walks that short the time folding up/parking/whatever with anything like a scooter/bike and then working out where to put it on the train is a significant portion of the commute, so how worth it is is debateable.
Plus working out where to put it where it is not going to hack off other commuters, or dealing with dissapproving looks from inconvenienced commuters are all downsides.
I used a folding bike for years, downsizing it over the years as the trains got more crowded, and then I gave up and just bougt a fixie with solid tyres to get to the station from the house.
but virtually all cars were compliant at the point of original sale/import. MIB data suggest that at any one time <1% of UK vehicles are uninsured (300K / 33M), and there are >75K prosecutions/fixed penalties issued each year. MOT data is harder to interpret as its often misleadingly reported on number of vehicles MOT'd late, but no regard for if it was actually used. Gut feel is it will be less than the insurance because new and very old vehicles are exempt. That is consistent with <20K penalties a year issued. There are too many of both - but the vast majority of vehicles actually being driven on the roads do actually have valid paperwork.Some would slip though but in less time than these have already been on the market you'd have 98+% complaince if the govrnment, trading standards and road police wanted it.
Sorry is there some evidence for that? Given, say, the amount of cars running around without MOTs or insurance,
the weak state of trading standards and roads policing after years of austerity, the amount of already patently illegal e bikes on the road and the inability to restrict / prohibit the import of these dodgy scooter I find the idea of rigorous compliance to be in the just made up school of statements.
But thats the loophole goverment could close if it wished. Its currenly illegal to import/sell a boat which doesn't comply with the relevant regulations but not illegal to import/sell an e-scooter. Instead of pursuing users* one at a time you can pursue suppliers and have a much bigger impact. So I stand by what I said, its not a lost cause, if Gov, Police, and TS want to deal with it they can, this is not a lost cause.
*many of those users who are going to be children and thus somewhat limited in how you penalise them.
But thats the loophole goverment could close if it wished. Its currenly illegal to import/sell a boat which doesn't comply with the relevant regulations but not illegal to import/sell an e-scooter.
Interesting loophole. I hadn't realised there were product classes where there was a responsibility on the individual importer as well as on commercial importer-sellers.
but virtually all cars were compliant at the point of original sale/import. MIB data suggest that at any one time <1% of UK vehicles are uninsured (300K / 33M), and there are >75K prosecutions/fixed penalties issued each year. MOT data is harder to interpret as its often misleadingly reported on number of vehicles MOT'd late, but no regard for if it was actually used. Gut feel is it will be less than the insurance because new and very old vehicles are exempt. That is consistent with <20K penalties a year issued. There are too many of both - but the vast majority of vehicles actually being driven on the roads do actually have valid paperwork.Some would slip though but in less time than these have already been on the market you'd have 98+% complaince if the govrnment, trading standards and road police wanted it.
Sorry is there some evidence for that? Given, say, the amount of cars running around without MOTs or insurance,
the weak state of trading standards and roads policing after years of austerity, the amount of already patently illegal e bikes on the road and the inability to restrict / prohibit the import of these dodgy scooter I find the idea of rigorous compliance to be in the just made up school of statements.But thats the loophole goverment could close if it wished. Its currenly illegal to import/sell a boat which doesn't comply with the relevant regulations but not illegal to import/sell an e-scooter. Instead of pursuing users* one at a time you can pursue suppliers and have a much bigger impact. So I stand by what I said, its not a lost cause, if Gov, Police, and TS want to deal with it they can, this is not a lost cause.
*many of those users who are going to be children and thus somewhat limited in how you penalise them.
Spain allow you to buy your own but the police do stop and have a portable dyno to test that it confirms to the regs.(they now have to be homologated by the DGT)
Recently a kid was stopped on one capable of 60mph and the parents were going to liable for it.
It was around 2k+ in fines
They sell e scooters in high street shops like Curry’s and Halfords.
So why would you regard them as illegal if you can buy a scooter so easily?
Because they're not legal to ride on roads (or pavements) without lights or insurance and all the rest. You can buy ride-on lawnmowers too but you can't ride them down the high street.
Like Surrons and pit Bikes.
Sometimes you can buy homologated ones that if you have the correct licence and insurance are road legal but the rest tend to be private land use only.
Recently a kid was stopped on one capable of 60mph and the parents were going to liable for it.
It was around 2k+ in fines
Occasionally, parents in the UK are prosecuted for causing and permitting the offence (usually no license/no insurance), as well as the child getting points on their license before they are even old enough to drive - can you imagine trying to get insured as a new driver with 6 points on your license? I think the fact that credible high st shops sell them doesn't help, and I'm sure they have a "not for road use" label on them, but if a prosecutor was brave they would charge the company (or its staff) with causing and permitting and I'm sure at the very least there would be some very explicit forms being signed by customers to say they knew the limitations.