Editorial decisions in the “old media” still impact the narrative disproportionately, even if most of the readership are other journalists and SPADs.
I think the much bigger problem now is "nudge" psychology using algorithms on new media to hook people and drive them further to false points of view.
eg recognizing you like cycling, feeding made up stories how the EU will negatively impact you cycling, as your resentment to the EU grows suggest Labour don't care that the EU remove your rights etc and keep building fake stories on top of misinformation to reel people in.
It is constant and each piece might only be small but the relentless nature drives big changes in attitude, it is cult like programming at a societal level.
Yep, confirmed by the Beeb.
Poor old Sunak, it's going to be a late night for him. 😁
It's a school night too.
kelvin
Full Member
What’s the point of all this? All these rebels wanting to vote to make the policy one that won’t be supported by Rwanda? If this isn’t about undermining Sunak to replace him… what do they hope to achieve?
There are so many bloody factions in their party now I doubt they really know what they want anymore.
Anderson had to vote this way though or he would get slaughtered on his main gig as a TV presenter. He's just making sure he has a job/grift after the GE.
to make the policy one that won’t be supported by Rwanda
Exit strategy for the whole Rwanda thing as they (Rwanda) will be to blame 🤷🏼♂️
They don't believe Rwanda will refuse to support it and they believe all the amendments are compatible with international law
Alice laughed. “One can’t believe impossible things,” she said to the White Queen. The Queen observed that Alice simply lacked discipline and practice, boasting that she sometimes believed “as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”
These folk have the discipline and practice to believe loads of impossible things
Exit strategy for the whole Rwanda thing as they (Rwanda) will be to blame
Every so often I have to remind myself of how much government time, and money is spent on this white elephant. With all the genuine issues the country has it's as if the government has a collective mental health issue. Self harm at a guess.
It'd almost be amusing if it wasn't for the fact we so desperately need a functioning government at the moment.
So will the 60 who tried to amend the bill now vote it through anyway?
What a total *ing shitshow
Honest Bob stood up in Parliament before and said ‘the world is watching’ with regards to the Rwanda policy.
They are indeed and they’re laughing their *ing tits off!
Just look at where this gang of Brexiteer morons have dragged this country to. An international laughing stock
30p lee has, reportedly, just resigned as deputy chairman.<br /><br />
oh no, please don’t go Lee. <br /><br />
I thought it was amusing when it was reported earlier today that he was ‘threatening to resign’. its not really my understanding of the word ‘threat’.
<br />it’s like threatening Binners with the keys to Greggs.
So will the 60 who tried to amend the bill now vote it through anyway?
Yes, because otherwise those who don't want it at all will win. Rishi realised the safest place to be is in the middle of the battlefield because both sides are lobbing their shells over his head at each other!
Who do the rebels think they are impressing and what did they think the rebellion was going to achieve? the only times rebellions achieve anything is if the opposition are going to vote the same way as the rebels.
Probably just self interest, I suspect they think that in their seats they can present a case for "doing everything we can to stop those nasty foreigners stealing a living from British patriots" they don't care if they damage the country or party as long as they can keep on riding the gravy train.
All this fuss to stop 5% of this country's net migration. Its more about validating shouting at "foreigners" than anything else.
Its a ****ing disgrace.
All this fuss to stop 5% of this country’s net migration
It’s way worse than that. All this to ship a couple of hundred of that 5% to Africa
All to keep some far right nutjobs happy
It’s insane, but I’m enjoying watching these gang of utter morons choose this hill to be the one to die on
How many ministers has it seem off already?
I know we’ve been saying this for the last 20 years (or maybe even longer), but surely the schism between the One Nation Tories and the Right Wing nut-job Tories (and no, I refuse to call you ‘The Five Families’, you bunch of fantasist cretins) simply becomes too great and the party will finally split?
Like the schism between the left and right of Labour? Nah, it'll play out exactly the same, neither side will walk because that would mean giving up the name and that was already tried by Tinge. Or they could just do a UB40 I suppose.
But the overall aim of the tory party has always been to keep power and wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy
Must admit, my local list Tory is actually pretty decent, shame about the party he's in.
maccruiskeen
Full MemberI think I was the great Sir Henry Rawlinson who said “I don’t know what I want but I want it now”
Nah, that was the irish poet Andy Cairns
the problem for all these rats deserting hms tory is that there's only so many jobs available on Gbnews
meanwhile the Tory whips will be desperately busy tonight trying to bribe & blackmail the slimy rebels
Nah, that was the irish poet Andy Cairns
Fried or Fired?
the Fail describe it as "Flagship Policy" fancy hanging your whole tenure on this debacle!
Just watching all this absolutely unhinged shenanigans playing out on Newsnight and seriously… WTF?!
Its clearly such a complete car crash that surely to Christ any sane voter, no matter who they usually vote for, are looking at this absolute rabble squabbling between themselves and thinking ‘and you want me to vote for another 5 years of this shit? Seriously?!’
What planet are you living on to make this your flagship policy and think this is a vote winner?
Absolutely detached from reality
It’s way worse than that. All this to ship a couple of hundred of that 5% to Africa
Dont forget the agreement is that some vulnerable refugees can be sent the other way.
I believe currently that side of the agreement is working so money well spent for those wanting to keep asylum seekers out. We have paid a shedload for, admittedly few, refugees coming to the UK.
pantomime politics
30p Lee has just chucked it so he can join reform, he knows he won't get in as a tory again so is trying his best to stay on the gravy train
Just watching all this absolutely unhinged shenanigans playing out on Newsnight and seriously… WTF?!<br /><br />
I’m watching it now and Henry Hill Conservative Home gobshit reminds me of a weeble I had as a kid, anyone remember “weebles wobble but the don’t fall down”?
Various inflation metrics up - in an apparently *unexcepected* move.
Lmfao.
It's not a surprise if you're not an idiot and believe anything the government and their bank do is logical.
"Our plan is working."
Who'd have thought inflation movement would be straight down?
The only thing that Tories have is tax cuts, low inflation and low interest rates and the argument for all of those being in place is doomed because of screamong monetarist logic.
Just watching all this absolutely unhinged shenanigans playing out on Newsnight and seriously… WTF?!
Trouble is, you are one of Newsnight's seventeen viewers. Most voters are unaware it even exists.
I'm more concerned that a government minister can go on BBC Breakfast and be completely unchallenged when he claims that Rishi has brought inflation down. At least a few more people are watching.
A lot of people are waking up in subzero temperatures in houses they can't afford to heat this morning, and it's important they understand that this government is not riding to their rescue.
I’m more concerned that a government minister can go on BBC Breakfast and be completely unchallenged when he claims that Rishi has brought inflation down.
I hate to say it, but they are more likely to be challenged on Good Morning Britain
It's okay, Jeremy Hunt is good with it. We just need to stay on plan with those difficult decisions and it will be sweet.
(Yeah I didn't post this in a specific Jeremy Hunt thread, what a rebel eh)
off we go further down the rabbit hole. The tories want to amend the civil service code so that civil servants can be instructed to ignore injunctions from the european court. So they want to be able to instruct civil servants to break the law. Utter madness as their union points out!
But this idea has been dismissed as “madness” by Dave Penman, general secretary of the FDA, the union that represents senior civil servants. In an interview with Kevin Schofield from HuffPost, Penman said:
<br />They’re essentially advising civil servants to act illegally, which will put them in conflict between their obligation to uphold the rule of law and to follow their instructions from elected ministers.
Ministers have an obligation to not put civil servants in that position. This is madness – changing the civil service code does not change the law.
Well the Ministerial Code doesn't seem to carry much weight these days...
That supertanskii video is a hard watch. So depressing that she's not subjected to that abuse.
There's a lot of thin skinned people about and the veil of secrecy online emboldens people
Anyway - looks like another poor showing from sunak at pmq's. He even brought a prop today for one of his stock answers
If Sinak’s so happy with the results of his anti-refugee actions/stat manipulations, why is he bothering with the Rwanda nonsense?
The answer to that is obvious and the fact you are asking makes me suspect you are some sort of leftie lawyer who goes on about human rights.
We can all enjoy the panicked looks on the faces of Sunak and Starmer when asked what they think of Trump, though.
That's the upside... Trump being the downside, and the fact that if they're not actually full on panicking they've not fully grasped the situation.
But guessing they don't have to give the money back (after doing nothing at all) ?
Kagame has offered to pay back all the money to be rid of the scheme.
[ EDIT: I have no idea how much money he meant : link to Mirror : but then we don't know how much they're getting ]
Sunak waving around props at PMQs. Absolute farce...
Oh no...
EUROPEANS
HUMANS
RIGHTS
All things we're supposed to hate/fear? Thank god Rishi is here to save us from them.
[ link to the prop brandishing in PMQs via Joe ]
[ link to more of today's PMQs via Joe ]
'LOOK AT THIS BLOKE, A PUBLISHED EXPERT ON HUMAN RIGHTS LAW! WHY WOULD YOU LET SOMEONE LIKE THAT RUN THE COUNTRY?'
All semblance of contact with reality has been jettisoned. It's just a desperate, flailing mess.
The cherry on top is the Rwandan government, offering to refund us for the failed deal, showing a lot more grace and dignity than our lot. Absolutely humiliating.
actually the Rwandans have clarified that
https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1747642143944937932
Very generous
So it's a bit like when my kids ask for a guinea pig/pick and mix at the cinema/to stay up late on a school night....
"I'll consider it..." = LOlz NO!
Exactly, very fair-minded. But I fully expect our government to honour the international commitment it made with Rwanda and not ask for the money back. After all, honouring international commitments is what this government is all about, no?
I'm genuinely perplexed about what he thought he'd get out of waving Kier Starmers publication at PMQ's.
He's waving evidence that the guy sat opposite him knows more about the subject than he does
It's either he's getting bum advice to do it, or he's ignoring good advice not to do it.
Either way he just sound like an idiot who thinks he's clever
So the Rwandan president has basically come out and said ‘guys… this is never going to work, is it? Do you want to forget the whole thing?’
Rishi has declined that offer and has decided to keep banging away with this completely futile exercise
Through desperate and crude the prop will have hit the mark with those in the country that he wanted it to.
Makes little difference though, they are already brainwashed Tory/Reform voters and it won't convert anyone else to this bizarre "crusade" of his.
It did seem bizarre.
‘you know the subject I’m totally winging it about? We’ll he wrote a book about it! Ha haaaaa!’
So Basically like the school bully trying to show up the school swot?
That might work, but not if you’re 5ft, built like a 15 year old female gymnast and a total ****ing dweeb
I’m genuinely perplexed about what he thought he’d get out of waving Kier Starmers publication at PMQ’s
He knew. Appealing to the base, rallying against those pesky defence lawyers ensuring people get a fair trail and the rule of law isn't subverted.
So if the Tories get to give international law a swerve, does that mean other agents of the state get a pass too? The law of armed conflict and Geneva conventions are a bit inconvenient. Asking for a war criminal friend.😉
He’s waving evidence that the guy sat opposite him knows more about the subject than he does
Experts. We don’t want them in government, knowing things we don’t. That Lee down the pub, the one with the loud mouth, he has some good ideas about foreign workers and work shy Brits. Pair him up with a hedge fund manager and there’s your team. Bish bash bosh… common sense and money sense… that’s all you need. What a team. Europeans? Humans? Rights? Who needs to know about that stuff anyway?!?
…does that mean other agents of the state get a pass too?
Laws are still there for the little people. No free pass if you don’t know a Tory MP who can get you on the VIP list.
Victoria Derbyshire has just absolutely savaged some Tory halfwit Tom Pursewell (no… me neither?) on Newsnight about them claiming to be the party of law and order while simultaneously voting to break international law
Then they put on the minister for the 18th century to defend breaking international law who just used it to plug his GB News show.
Both had it pointed out to them that even if they get this through they will send 200 people to Rwanda out of an immigration backlog of 100,000+ people. Also that this nonsense has so far cost the thick end of half a billion quid
… who just used it to plug his GB News show.
He did that on Channel4 News [yesterday?] as well. Do you think he gained even a single new viewer for his show with these plugs…?
I almost feel sorry for Sunak on this one… he only kept this policy as a favour to the ERG to stop them backing Johnson for another run at being leader again… didn’t he? Now so many of them are turning on him anyway… but he’s still stuck with it after he’s backed it so forcefully and publicly, before they ran off and left him carrying the can.
An unnamed ‘moderate’ Tory MP said that they never wanted this bill in the first place but they’re now all inner a 3 line whip to vote for it to stop it being defeated by the right wing nut jobs who pushed for it all song
Talk about the tail wagging the dog
@kelvin I don't feel a shred of pity for Sunak on this subject. He had the opportunity firstly as chancellor and then as prime minister to shitcan it if he actually wanted to.
Fingers crossed the lord's do the right thing.
It's depressing that I had to write that last sentence
Fingers crossed the lord’s do the right thing.
The lords don't have any real power, sure they can kick a bill back to the commons a few times, 3? and 'strongly ask' for a re-think/or propose an amendment...
But if the commons just say nope, and vote for it again every time, then ultimately the bill will pass...it happened with one of the brexit votes, I forget which one.
It’s difficult to really grasp what Rishi hopes to achieve with the huge amount of political capital he’s burning over Rwanda
Does anyone really think that a single person (other than a succession of Home Secretaries) will ever be sent to Rwanda?
Even if it goes ahead, they’ll pull us out of the ECHR, wreck the good Friday agreement, thus making the UK an international pariah and for what?
It’s absolutely nuts!
This is what the conservatives do to the country when they’re in power, a rather stark set of graphs
https://twitter.com/matt_miall/status/1747160543343804517?s=61&t=27Xz8oI3pGlaNEQvowJBcg
It’s absolutely nuts!
The lords don’t have any real power, sure they can kick a bill back to the commons a few times, 3? and ‘strongly ask’ for a re-think/or propose an amendment…
But they will get a lot of publicity, and I suspect that a lot of respected (within the party) Tory lords will make very eloquent speeches trying to explain to Tory voters why its so batshit crazy.
Anyway, the Beeb also reporting about the proposed change to the Civil Service code. I'm not in the Home Office so not directly affected by Rwanda, but the change will require any of us to break international law if a minister tells us to. I will be upsetting the union by asking for their thoughts on that this morning.
It’s difficult to really grasp what Rishi hopes to achieve with the huge amount of political capital he’s burning over Rwanda
It keeps migration as the number 1 topic in the news cycle ahead of all the real problems, even failure of the Rwanda policy keeps the focus on blaming others for the mismanagement of the economy and peoples suffering. He is basically policing the thread to keep the focus away from more difficult conversations.
This person helps govern us. Has a vote on important matters.
FFS
https://twitter.com/inglesongrey/status/1747740979233231251?t=0XCtcH_4lZm3AaHRRhQ5Kw&s=19
It keeps migration as the number 1 topic in the news cycle ahead of all the real problems, even failure of the Rwanda policy keeps the focus on blaming others for the mismanagement of the economy and peoples suffering. He is basically policing the thread to keep the focus away from more difficult
For sure and totally mirrored in this thread itself.
Im not so sure this is sunak dead catting himself to victory, people are well aware of the damage the last 14 years have done to the country.
this policy was only ever performative to appease the far right & head off reform
but turning the whole thing into an endless pantomime does no such thing
Sunak has simply backed himself into a corner
still at least we got this gem
https://twitter.com/michaelocyoung/status/1747771580011135024?t=14A-GapjDC0g1YHFle5MQQ&s=19
so yougov have the Tories 27 pts behind in their latest poll
DJI
Im not so sure this is sunak dead catting himself to victory
It won't allow him to dead cat to victory, but it does keep the focus away from just how bad the current financial system is for the majority of people, and stops the discussion on what changes should be made. We need changes that are not being discussed or raised politically, instead the focus is on where all the immigrants are.
He knew. Appealing to the base,
Yep, that was totally staged, and absolutely cooked up by the No10 media desk That clip along with the whole "I ban terrorists, he invoices them" line is going to be a Insta/TicToc/FB clip fo'shure.