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And that’s relevant for what reason?
Because for a lot of people that will be too much, so they will vote for politicians who tell them they won't have to do that.
That’s pretty much 99% of personal journeys covered.
But people will still want to do the 1% of journeys where they have to go further. For someone like me that's visiting relatives, going somewhere nice for the weekend or a random day trip to the lakes or somewhere similar to go riding. Good luck to any politician who tries to tell people that those 1% of journeys are going to be much more difficult and inconvenient than they currently are.
Because for a lot of people that will be too much, so they will vote for politicians who tell them they won’t have to do that.
No they won't. If Labour get in with a big majority they can bring back the 2030 plan by quickly doing a press event similar to Sunaks one the other day. If people don't like it, tough as Labour will be in until 2030 so they can't vote any other way can they.
If they care so much about that one thing I guess the tories will be pulling an unexpected win in next election.
People are not going to do these things all by themselves and rely on infrastructure and prodding from the government.
"<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">But people will still want to do the 1% of journeys where they have to go further. For someone like me that’s visiting relatives, going somewhere nice for the weekend or a random day trip to the lakes or somewhere similar to go riding. Good luck to any politician who tries to tell people that those 1% of journeys are going to be much more difficult and inconvenient than they currently are."</span>
I've news for you, they already are and have been getting more difficult for years.
In the late 80's/90's and early 00's I use to reckon on been able to maintain a +70mph average on long journeys (fast car, less traffic, only mobile cameras to worry about and used a radar detector), now it's near 55mph - and I was doing +40k pa in those days, so this wasn't a 1% issue, but my everyday.
So your 1 long trip a year takes you 30 mins longer, get a grip.
Good luck to any politician who tries to tell people that those 1% of journeys are going to be much more difficult and inconvenient than they currently are
Why would they? I mean they wouldn’t be much more difficult or inconvenient.
they will vote for politicians who tell them they won’t have to do that
Yeah, you're right. Let's just forget the whole thing and carry on partying like it's 1999 🙄
I’ve done 10k miles since 21st July for work so ev’s for me will be bloody hard to implement. I’m driving from Shrewsbury to Inverness and back for one days work next week, installing operating theatre equipment with specialist kit so there’s no real way around it.
Should be easier for you, I’d argue. With that amount of time on the road you’ll presumably be needing to stop and eat two or three meals? That’s close to an hour and a half of charging opportunity, more if you’re also stopping for a rest and to have a pee.
At Rugby services I can plug the car in and by the time I’ve got back to it 15 minutes later I’ve got another 200 miles range.
If Labour get in with a big majority they can bring back the 2030 plan by quickly doing a press event similar to Sunaks one the other day.
How much are you willing to bet that Starmer will do that? He'll say all the right things now about how terrible the tories are and how damaging to the net zero effort pushing back the deadline is, and then he'll quietly accept it on the grounds that there are higher priorities. Sunak has probably done him a favour.
If they care so much about that one thing I guess the tories will be pulling an unexpected win in next election.
It won't win the tories the election, but it could save them a lot of seats, especially in the red wall. Perhaps even enough to deny labour a working majority.
Yeah, you’re right. Let’s just forget the whole thing and carry on partying like it’s 1999 🙄
You seem to have mistaken me for someone who wants ICE cars to carry on forever. I want the transition to happen asap, but the reality is that the things that need to happen to achieve it are not happening, and the result will be a lot of ball-ache and extra costs for those who can least afford it.
so there’s no real way around it.
You could stay overnight. Are seriously driving for 8 or so hours, working say 8 then driving back another 8 hours?
The other week I was on holiday in Norfolk, did well over 10 hours of driving from the west midlands and back in all, spent 20 minutes charging once in the whole week while we had a comfort break, we had 3 times as many stops for food or a rest as we did charging and I don't even have a big battery car just the short range MG4. Those that complain about EVs being unusable either don't have one, are looking for something to complain about or are a bit thick, the rest of us will just get on with it.
Those that complain about EVs being unusable either don’t have one, are looking for something to complain about or are a bit thick
And here comes the snobbery. Look at all those plebs with their dirty polluting cars! Seriously if that's going to be how this pans out then you can kiss net-zero goodbye. 🙄
I'm not being snobby, I've been using EVs for years, with the latest one I'm getting caught out having to plan rest stops like I did with a petrol car charging is so infrequent. It's people that don't have any experience of them that are the one's that are always going on about how useless they are.
I’m not being snobby
are looking for something to complain about or are a bit thick
No, not at all. 🙄
You might want to cast your mind back a few years and remind yourself what happened the last time millions of people felt like they weren't being listened to.
I take it your putting yourself in the thick camp then?
Seriously it's like those articles you see in the paper, I tried to drive from x to y in my EV and it was a nightmare, you'd have to either set out to make the journey that bad or be so stupid you'd even run out of petrol.
And yes I'm being antagonistic about this because I f**ing fed up of the anti EV bollocks I hear all the time.
You might want to cast your mind back a few years and remind yourself what happened the last time millions of people felt like they weren’t being listened to.
Ah yes. When the public were mislead by a government, a racist and all helped by lies. Similar to a current government telling lies about their green drive and the misconceptions that owning an EV is problematic.
And here comes the snobbery
Did you not read the bit where he said he has a short range MG4 😉😁
How much are you willing to bet that Starmer will do that?
Not a lot because he is a bit of a tory **** and why I vote Green rather than Labour but the point is still there. If Sunak had not suddenly pulled his crappy stunt this week it could well have gone into next election untouched. What car people can buy in 2030 is really not a big enough deal in people lives to sway their vote.
What car people can buy in 2030 is really not a big enough deal in people lives to sway their vote.
Plenty of pensioner age anti EV types who believe they need another ICE car in 10 years time, I'll wager.
I'm only surprised the 2035 announcement did not coincide with some matching 'British cars for British people made from British steel' announcement where the government promise to convert some no-longer-viable frozen fish warehouse into a world beating ICE car production plant by next year, or some such bollocks.
You seem to have mistaken me for someone who wants ICE cars to carry on forever. I want the transition to happen asap
More new EVs sold now feeds in to the second hand market later making EVs affordable for pretty much everyone that could afford a second hand ice car now. And you've got the nerve to tell others they've got a poor understanding of economics? Right-o.
And yes I’m being antagonistic about this because I f**ing fed up of the anti EV bollocks I hear all the time.
There's no need because I'm very pro-EV. I just want the transition to be done in a way which working people will support. Telling them they're thick isn't going to achieve that.
When the public were mislead by a government, a racist and all helped by lies.
So this being the case do you think transitioning to EVs will be made easier by listening to and helping working people to make the change, or by telling them they're thick and stupid to be worried about it?
I’ve not heard any politician say that.
I'll throw in the REAL solution. EV is not it. Hydrogen is really the answer. Time to stop dicking about.
But won't happen in my lifetime in Britain because there is ****all long term planning for anything. Energy. Transport. Health. Education. Water supply. Etc. Etc etc. Its all short term and quick buck. We have not had any meaningful energy strategy since the late 1970s / early 80s when the CEGB was broken up. By pure chance, heavy industry use declined in line with capacity decline. But that's by chance only. The dash for gas was short term quick buck madness then, and is even more so now.
The REAL solution is lots of renewable, lots of new nuclear. And remove dependency on countries we fundamentally can't trust. Use that to generate electricity, then use hydrogen for Transport and energy storage, making it when the electricity demand is lower like in summer, night time, etc (isn't it barking mad that wind turbines are stopped at night as there's no use for the electricity produced and no meaningful storage methods).
I’ve not heard any politician say that.
Neither have I thankfully but some on this thread seem to think that's the way forward. All I'm saying is that the tories are trying to turn the EV/net-zero issue into another brexit-type scenario where people vote with their emotions and instincts rather than with their heads. If accepting the extension of the ICE deadline by a few years helps to avoid that then that's no big deal in my book. The ICE deadline isn't a hill that's worth dying on.
With hydrogen for transport generated from electricity you'll need a lot more generation capacity. Battery EVs have about 20% losses associated with charging and discharging whilst hydrogen vehicles about 60% losses. You need roughly half as many power stations again to run a hydrogen transport system than a battery system.
A hydrogen transport system isn't going to happen:
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=1bf1cbf0-ac2f-4b39-a3de-2df77a9a515e
Edit: Unfortunately the link to the article doesn't get the full article, just Google "hydrogen versus battery efficiency transport"
"<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">I’ll throw in the REAL solution. EV is not it. Hydrogen is really the answer. Time to stop dicking about."</span>
If we'd never moved to petrol & diesel at the start of the last century and just continued with electric cars can you imagine trying to sell the idea that hydrogen was the answer...
What is your problem with having a vehicle that can be literally charged from almost any building/property/site in the UK (and beyond)?
What is your problem with having a vehicle that can be literally charged from almost any building/property/site in the UK (and beyond)?
Another (probably small) issue here is the problem of reimbursement of funds if you charge your EV with someone else's power outlets. That's going to require a lot of retrofitting of smart meters etc unless we're working on the assumption that home/building owners won't have a problem with visitors using their power supply to charge their cars?
Hydrogen is really the answer
It absolutely isn’t, unless you've found a way round the laws of thermodynamics.
"<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">Another (probably small) issue here is the problem of reimbursement of funds if you charge your EV with someone else’s power outlets. That’s going to require a lot of retrofitting of smart meters etc unless we’re working on the assumption that home/building owners won’t have a problem with visitors using their power supply to charge their cars?"</span>
Our electric infrastructure is yet another Govt (ideological) failure.
When electricity was been rolled out across the UK before & after the war did you know that literally every house was offered power installed for the same standard price, no matter where they were, or how many poles it took, or cable to get there - even streams/rivers to be crossed.
Yet now it seems we're incapable of even installing car chargers/meters in your average street.
Yet now it seems we’re incapable of even installing car chargers/meters in your average street.
We're capable of it, but no one wants to pay for it. This is what happens when you leave things to the market. I don't think the govt (and probably labour too) were ever serious about the 2030 deadline and always knew it would be binned when the reality of EV transition hit home. It's just happened early due to a desperate PM clutching at whatever straws he can to win some votes. Maybe I'll be wrong but as the number of EVs grows the more we'll see it all falling apart. It's got the potential to be a massive political problem for the govt of the day in a few years.
Why can’t we all have hoverboards to get around on?
Back To The future definitely promised hoverboards
I blame the Tories
</pedantry>
And where is Mr Fusion?
EV infrastructure has been going in at an amazing rate this year, whole rows of high power chargers at services, charging hubs with up to 180 spaces, EV forecourts, chargers that are simpler to use, chargers with disabled access, there's tons of progress being made, as an EV driver it's been the most positive year so far really feels like it's picking up momentum. Norway are years ahead of us with EV take up and it seems to be going fine it would be very typically British to do something half arsed.
@binners 😂
Re: hydrogen we're planning to build a high temperature reactor at Hartlepool with the aim being hydrogen production (it's more efficient if you heat it up apparently). There's also the plan in Scotland to sink excess renewable energy into hydrogen production as well.
This is the crux of the issue. With a 2030 deadline we’ve got 10 years to install all the infrastructure for on-street charging. Can anyone seriously see that happening? The alternative is telling people who aren’t rich enough to have a driveway that they need to get the bus. Good luck with that.
So people who aren't rich enough to have driveways are going to be forced to buy new electric cars? Riiiiight.
FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME THERE WILL STILL BE A SECOND HAND ICE MARKET!
For someone who claims many positions you sure do have a funny way of showing them.
always takes a while for stuff to filter through into polls but ditching that wishy-washy green stuff appears to have gifted sunak net zero in the polls (fieldwork done since his announcement)
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1705297272617992301?t=hoEuah280LLQZOjPlKBAoQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1705214085351047635?t=PBLtUQKcUpwWDPYKN50jLA&s=19
I have to say the remarkable poll numbers have been remarkably stable for such remarkable poll numbers. It's quite remarkable.
You might want to cast your mind back a few years and remind yourself what happened the last time millions of people felt like they weren’t being listened to.
yep, they shot themselves in both feet. But unless Mark has been doing wonders with the STW circulation figures I don’t think expressing a view here will shift the needle on national elections much.
always takes a while for stuff to filter through into polls but ditching that wishy-washy green stuff appears to have gifted sunak net zero in the polls (fieldwork done since his announcement)
That is because he is just appealing to that 26% so he has thrown away half decent policies to appease people who would vote for him whatever he did because they will be voting tory.
This is what I was saying earlier, the policies could have been kept with no effect on voting or what the people want.
People are not good at thinking about actually being in the future (yes they understand you need a pension but they can't actually see themselves as a pensioner) so nobody was overly bothered about policies 10 years out.
1 year out they will start to be bother but too late then and some of the infrastructure will be in place as government and private companies would actually start to build it knowing there will be guaranteed demand for it.
I'm more concerned with what is likely to be the impact in the key marginal seats. Those overall numbers haven't changed much but there could be shifts in both directions netting as no change
Starmer's recent forays onto the European stage might move the dial with his support, and may even move some support in Tory strongholds, among the younger business owning type tory voter (ie not the pensioner vote). But in football terms, turning a 3-0 win into a 4-0 doesn't earn another point, nor does turning a 0-3 loss into a 1-3
And in the middle where it counts we're starting to see the media and 'commentators' like Farage starting to rev the engines about having Brexit taken away.
I know some on here feel it's the right thing to do and I welcome the moves in reality but I'm concerned that it's opening a new front at a time when everything the tories currently do blows another few toes off their own foot.
FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME THERE WILL STILL BE A SECOND HAND ICE MARKET!
Think you need to calm down mate.
I’ve already said used ICE prices will increase significantly when the supply is removed. The only way they’ll stay the same is if you also remove the demand, but by your own admission you’re saying the demand will still exist. It’s basic supply and demand economics.
a Grauniad poll suggesting about 22% support Sunaks move, so much for the Gbeebies silent majority.
There will be plenty of second hand EVs for people to buy.