Try knocking on doors with a local councillor or MP when they’re campaigning for an election and see how many voters bring up electoral reform
Wheely bins on the other hand…
#middleclassleftyselfindulgence
Maybe, just maybe, when people feel like they have no control over the big issues (because in a FPTP system where the parties only care about the couple of hundred thousand swing voters in key seats) then what they feel they can control becomes very important.
In Scotland I think you'll find people care about all the issues (including wheelie bins but that tends to be a bit further down the list of priorities than it seems to be in Bury). Perhaps when you have a system where your vote actually counts for something it focusses the mind a bit more? I very much doubt people in Glasgow are intellectually superior to voters in Bury on a genetic level.
I love the fact you think good honest working class people only care about wheelie bins while an electoral system that means people are able to influence the big decisions is purely a middle-class affectation.
Do you think working class people are too stupid to understand anything but wheelie bins? There are plenty working class people in Glasgow who would wipe the floor with you in any number of subjects, including (probably especially) politics.
#middleclasscondescension
Do you think working class people are too stupid to understand anything but wheelie bins?
I can do better than that, I think most people are too stupid and I am working class. Stupid is probably not the right word though and more to do with immediate priorities in their lives.
If it came to it and they had to understand economics, political motivations, what actually could be done versus what actually is done, the drivers behind decisions, council budgets versus central budgets etc,. they may struggle but they never get that far because wheelie bins, pot holes and NHS/Social care if/when they have to use it.
They have to trust people who have to understand it to do the right things which is where it goes wrong.
You can spot the folks who love a bit of political discussion who've never involved themselves in the actual business of real life campaigning. Like @binners I've canvassed for Labour, and where-ever that's been; Buckinghamshire, Northants, West Yorkshire, the issues are always the same, Why is everything so expensive, why are the roads full of potholes (nothing a MP can do about that one) why is hard to see a doctor, why are dentists so expensive, why is my food expensive...Very rarely is it world politics and even rarer still is it "We have to organise everything differently so that the party I like can win more often". (insert a rolling eyes emoji here)
The folks on these threads on this site are both "keen on politics" and left leaning, most folks I've met on the canvass are not keen on politics, in fact large amounts of folks go out of their way to avoid it, and most folks (IME) couldn't tell you what left/right splits mean, and have only the vaguest notion of what each political party represents beyond the broadest of broad strokes. Corbyn was unpopular, not because of the things he stood for (most folks didn't know) but that they didn't want him to be their Prime Minister.
You can spot the folks who love a bit of political discussion who’ve never involved themselves in the actual business of real life campaigning.
Perhaps you should come out in campaigning in Glasgow sometime. Saying that, I'm not sure if Labour actually campaigns on street corners anymore but the SNP definitely does.
It may sound crazy but people are able to draw a direct line between the problems they are having in their lives and how that interacts with the various systems of government.
Opinions are not in short supply, even if they are very different.
But then maybe both of us are right and it's just another Scotland/England thing:
I wonder if the independence/devolution debates made more folks north of the border more "politically aware" and involved than those of us in England.
But certainly for many down here electoral reform is considered a "nice to have", with many more pressing issues, which may be the tail wagging the dog.
The Conservatives have been carrying out electoral reform, changing the voting system to FPTP for elections Labour set up using other voting systems. We can have more of that by keeping the Tories in power.
So… anyway… this Sunak fellow… by signalling that he’s willing to run away from a May election, does that give his party the time and space to replace him…?
Very rarely is it world politics and even rarer still is it “We have to organise everything differently so that the party I like can win more often”. (insert a rolling eyes emoji here)
What is it with you and binner and your mix of sneering superiority and parroting of the tory attack lines? I cant help but think if you either of you came round I would actively start thinking about voting for Shapps than have someone you support in place.
The obvious counterpoint to your patronising claims is brexit. Something which went from being nowhere on the list of concerns to top in a very short period.
We could, of course, rather than relying on people who open the door to some random people knocking and can be arsed to speak to them is instead to look at support for electoral reform across the UK. It has been increasing across the board although tories for obvious reasons are against it as are labour mps again for the same reasons.
I doubt it, very few leaders want to give up the gig and definitely not only 2 years in. My take on the autumn election wibble is was Sunak trying to say its not a big deal, ive got more important stuff to do and it can wait. Going earlier without a good reason, ie going to increase a majority looks like throwing the towel in. May is a better bet for them to reduce the carnage, people will be in a better mood, sumer is coming and they might get more of the oldies out. Autumn nights are drawing in and the summer is gone. Also i cant see any big change between now and the autumn, only reason to carry on until then is to milk the sustem, Sunak will not be leader after the next election but a lot of MPs want the maximum chance to nold onto their seats if they can and May gives them a better chance of doing that.
As for the above if you dont get the point Binners was making about bins you really dont have your finher on the pulse of what average voters care about which explains alot.
very few leaders want to give up the gig
Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean to suggest he was deliberately giving them the time to replace him, more that it might be the result whether he wants it or not.
Also i cant see any big change between now and the autumn
A desperate party might try and create a change. They might think that a new leader might dominate the news cycle with new messaging ahead of a general election. Can’t see it working out of them… but if they become sure that sticking with Sunak isn’t going to work either…
We can have more of that by keeping the Tories in power.
We can have more of that by ignoring any option of reform. Its telling how quickly new new labour resort to the same line the tories are using now "dont vote for us and you are voting for the other fptp choice".
So… anyway… this Sunak fellow… by signalling that he’s willing to run away from a May election, does that give his party the time and space to replace him…?
Not really since there isnt much time really. November does seem about the latest it is sensible to have the election.
Unless they have a coronation rather than a contest they will lost about 2 months to the leadership contest.
Then just have a couple of months before summer recess/conference.
Then electioneering.
Doesnt give much time to make an active impact in "I passed these laws blah blah".
As for the above if you dont get the point Binners was making about bins you really dont have your finher on the pulse of what average voters care about which explains alot.
And yet if we had listened to Binners he would have also told us brexit was unimportant back in 2014 and wheelie bins were the problem.
Explains a lot.
Doesnt give much time to make an active impact in “I passed these laws blah blah”.
”I have a new agenda, and you’ll only find out if it’ll work if you vote for our MPs”
Untested might be better for the Conservatives going into an election, rather than tested and failed (in the eyes of the voters).
As for the above if you dont get the point Binners was making about bins you really dont have your finher on the pulse of what average voters care about which explains alot.
Yes, he's saying the English are ignorant savages who shouldn't be allowed out in public, let alone given the vote.
The fact that Scotland is able to demonstrate a higher level of political understanding, while at the same time worrying about wheelie bins and potholes, is because of our genetic superiority. It definitely is not because a combination of voting systems means the public was forced to educate itself about political systems and not just accept the status quo.
I wonder if the independence/devolution debates made more folks north of the border more “politically aware” and involved than those of us in England.
Yes - certainly in how to use the various votes. Its rather forced on us as we have complex electoral systems different for different elections but I have no doubt across the board people are more politically engaged
The fact that Scotland is able to demonstrate a higher level of political understanding
Haven't they always had that though? Evidenced by never having many tories. Okay I hate tories so am a bit biased but anyone with basic political understanding can see that the tory party is never going to the best choice for the majority of peoples lives but yet English voters get suckered into voting for them more often than not.
Haven’t they always had that though? Evidenced by never having many tories.
I don't even know where to start with this. You could start with some history.
anyone with basic political understanding can see that the tory party is never going to the best choice for the majority of peoples lives but yet English voters get suckered into voting for them more often than not.
.. and then follow up with some psychology...
Untested might be better for the Conservatives going into an election, rather than tested and failed (in the eyes of the voters).
Thats not a problem since they are pretending they are a new party each week anyway although I take your point.
Even so it strikes me as unlikely since it would be a major gamble that they could recover things and if they did have a catastrophic defeat then they would be the ones listed as "led the tories to a wipeout".
Which wouldnt be great for their ego and also risk any chance of a political career beyond backbencher.
Best to wait and lead in opposition.
Haven’t they always had that though? Evidenced by never having many tories.
the independence referendum and the complex PR systems is the main source of this divergence in political engagement. Its not a huge difference but its there. Apart from UK wide elections there are no wasted votes in Scotland. all votes matter in both Hollyrood and council elections. I think this focuses people more
Scotland generally has a more socialist leaning ethos - the two are different but interrelated
I have no doubt that PR for westminster would increase political engagement as its no longer a few floating voters in marginal seats that the parties need to appeal to but every voter in every seat
Anyway... fascinating though the debate about the relative intelligence of English and Scottish voters is.... this Rishi Sunak fella. The one this thread is meant to be about. You know... the present Prime Minister....
He's giving a speech on the whole Yemen situation in Parliament this afternoon. Grant Shapps is making a speech on the same this morning. With what 'Lord' Dave said yesterday about 'the lights flashing red on the global dashboard' I get the distinct impression that this is being deliberately ratcheted up to provide a suitable distraction and some pretty depressing military muscle flexing.
Its a common theme that when a country gets involved in any kind of armed conflict, threes a 'rally to the flag' effect. Would you put it past this lot to be both desperate and cynical enough to be deliberately winding up the threat posed for some kind of electoral advantage?
Nothing to do with the present polling predicting a complete electoral whitewash?
and some pretty depressing military muscle flexing.
Given that our entire armed forces amounts to a bloke shouting bang, a tired old Lancaster scattering poppies and a slightly larger sailing dingy, it's probably not going to be that distracting
Scotland generally has a more socialist leaning ethos
That isnt supported by the social attitudes surveys.
But it is by election results. Solid social democratic majority for 70 years, now standing at around 80% vote for social democratic parties and 20% for right wing parties. england is generally closer to 60 / 40 split
Ukip high point in Scotland was 7%. In England 25%
If holyrood was elected FPTP the SNP would have almost all the seats
Well we now know the answer to the question about trying to get people to 'rally to the flag'
Listening to Grant Shapps present speech, I've never heard such a load of scaremongering, sabre-rattling claptrap in my life. Look at all the big whizz-bang explodey things we've got and we're not afraid to use them. So there!
Followed by launching straight into 'you can't trust the left with our nations defence'
Its pathetic that they (no pun intended) want to weaponise this, but thats clearly the plan. I expect we'll get this flag-waving, Gggggrrrrrrrr..... just look at my fighter jets bollocks from Sunak this afternoon
it’s probably not going to be that distracting
Yes its a sideshow at best unless he decides to try to send the ground troops in and I dont think even he would be quite that dense.
We have one ship available which, once it fires off 50 or so anti air missiles, will either just hang around firing its guns from time to time or have to go to somewhere friendly to get rearmed. It doesnt have an offensive capability either (at least against the current opponents).
Can send typhoons on an occasional flight but its a long old flight.
Could maybe send a astute to the area to launch some tomahawks but again limited.
Its a common theme that when a country gets involved in any kind of armed conflict, threes a ‘rally to the flag’ effect. Would you put it past this lot to be both desperate and cynical enough to be deliberately winding up the threat posed for some kind of electoral advantage?
Yep incumbent and Conservative pal of choice Starmer.
They're both going to be at it.
That said I think interest rates and inflation will be the biggy.
Could go both ways currently but I reckon Oil definitely leading inflation.
Grant Shapps, just now:
"Some people, especially on the left, have a tendency to talk Britain down.. they believe Britain can no longer have the power to influence world events... I passionately believe these unpatriotic, Britain belittling doom-mongers are simply wrong..."
Looks like we're going full flag-shagging from now until the election then. Rishi will no doubt double down on this, this afternoon in Parliament
I wonder how many seconds he gets into his speech before he mentions Corbyn?
#middleclassleftyselfindulgence
Curious as to who you're directing this at. I remember not too long ago you were having a go at Corbyn and his supporters for bringing up the subject of local bus services, which I'm sure you will agree is another hot issue for salt of the earth "normal" working class people. Does that not come up on the doorstep? If I were to summarise various issues that different groups are bothered about you'd probably find the same issues coming up on the doorstep that we lefties like to talk about. I'll give you a list in fact..
Issues important to lefty sixth-formers:
The NHS/Social care
Schools
Workers rights/minimum wage
Public Transport (especially buses)
Progressive taxation
Equal rights
Not fighting wars
Issues important to middle class centrists:
Brexit
Electoral Reform
Getting the tories out (boooo!)
The national debt/govt finances
So which group of policies are coming up on the doorstep, and who do you think they align with?
patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel
though in the tories case it should probably be "patriotism".
Thats really not so Dazh - or certainly up here it is not
Brexit is a huge live issue as is getting rid of tories
or certainly up here it is not
Well yeah, but I'm asking binners what issues are coming up in normal working class Bury. We can't all live in a well educated politically aware utopia 😉.
I wonder how many seconds he gets into his speech before he mentions Corbyn?
And that will be a few seconds longer than you mentioning him again.
Torygraph polling looking grim for Li’ Rishi
One of two reasons for the prominence of this, either trying to stoke up the loons to kick him out and lurch even further rightwards, or to encourage further complacency in possible Labour voters. It's all part of the game.
Personally, I'd rather see a poll that showed a more realistic lead for Labour, get them ready to scrap for every vote. Apparently the Tories are out canvassing already in many constituencies - there's no way this is going to be in November.
EDIT:
Seems to be the first of the two options then:
https://twitter.com/AndyGJBurge/status/1746828763562750395
I remember not too long ago you were having a go at Corbyn and his supporters for bringing up the subject of local bus services,
Context dear boy. I criticised Corbyn for being politically clueless when there had been an enormous Tory * up (who can remember which one) and Grandad directed all his questions at PMQs about bus services and ignored the latest cluster-* completely
So which group of policies are coming up on the doorstep, and who do you think they align with?
I mentioned earlier that when you talk to people when doorknocking, the things they want to talk about are exactly what you've listed. Numbers one and two are the NHS and education, every single time.
You do get the odd mad UKIPer who'll bang on about immigration, which is always an eye-opener
I’d rather see a poll that showed a more realistic lead for Labour, get them ready to scrap for every vote. Apparently the Tories are out canvassing already in many constituencies – there’s no way this is going to be in November.
Labour have been doing for about 6 months at least. Actually it was about 12 months now, because I was out door-knocking when it was absolutely effing freezing in the middle of winter, on one occasion with a shadow minister. Its been properly stepped up now though and the Labour party will indeed be scrapping for every vote. There is zero complacency. Everyones thoughts are about Kinnock in 92.
Absolutely nobody believes theres going to be a general election in November. Its going to be in May
I mentioned earlier that when you talk to people when doorknocking, the things they want to talk about are exactly what you’ve listed. Numbers one and two are the NHS and education, every single time.
Yeah that was my point. Funny though that you spend all your time attacking the very people who want to fix these issues. I know you like to think that your self-styled lefty sixth formers are out of touch metropolitan middle class bedwetters but you're wrong. They have much more in common with the people you meet in Bury than you like to think. I know one thing for certain, it's not the lefties who spend all their time telling working people that we can't afford to fix the NHS or that we can't pay people proper wages.
I'm curious as to what you tell people on the doorstep about this stuff. Do you follow the party line and tell them everything is incredibly difficult, that the country has no money and that we need to live within our means? Or do you quiely tell them that it's all do-able but Starmer has to pretend to be a tory in order to get elected?
I’m curious as to what you tell people on the doorstep about this stuff. Do you follow the party line and tell them everything is incredibly difficult, that the country has no money and that we need to live within our means? Or do you quiely tell them that it’s all do-able but Starmer has to pretend to be a tory in order to get elected?
ask liz truss what happens to peoples mortgages if the markets think the government plans to not live 'within its means'
zero labour campaigning here - or from any other party
Looks like my seat is going to be a labour / SNP marginal from that torygraph poll. I'll have to see who the candidates are but our SNP MP is a vile liar and the labour candidate was very complicit in the statutory notice scandal and cover up. I'd find it hard to vote for either especially given Starmers clear disdain for Scotland
I'll be interested to see if the local labour party campaign against london labour policy as the candidate in Rutherglen did where they specifically repudiated several key london labour policies because they knew those policies are vote losers here
Leaves me with difficult decisions but at least whoever wins it will not be a tory
We need to drop this 1960s idea that the 'working class' is semi-literate blue-collar and the 'middle class' wears a tie and sits at a desk with a pen. If you work for a wage or a salary you are working class, even if you think otherwise. Most people are only a couple of wage cheques away from being midden class.
ask liz truss what happens to peoples mortgages if the markets think the government plans to not live ‘within its means’
That was a reaction to unfunded tax cuts for the rich.
The markets responded pretty well to the governments spending "not living within its means" in response to covid, and Ukraine.
ask liz truss what happens to peoples mortgages if the markets think the government plans to not live ‘within its means’
You think people in Bury are interested in what the markets think? I can imagine if Binners said to someone on the doorstep that we can't fix the NHS because the markets won't let us spend money that would be a guaranteed lost vote.
I’m curious as to what you tell people on the doorstep about this stuff.
I thought they only allowed binners to deliver leaflets?
Can you imagine him giving potential voters his usual avalanche of hyperbole and denouncing them as 'senile old racists/gammons/bigots'?
His lack of diplomatic skills and any semblance of tact is the stuff of legends in the Rose and Crown Ramsbottom!
He would be flouncing door-to-door! 😂
Dazh - but that is what Starmer / Reeves are saying
Are we ignoring* that Labour plan to invest billions more than the Conservatives, and spend more on the NHS and education? That they admit/claim/state that there will be limits on how much and how fast they can put money in might be super contentious with five to ten people on this forum, but to most voters it is not, and what's more they do not trust anyone claiming otherwise.
*again, like all these political threads. Stuck on repeat. A free puncture repair kit to anyone who can get this thread back on Sunak.
Are we ignoring* that Labour plan to invest billions more than the Conservatives, and spend more on the NHS and education?
Well the fact everytime the hard right rags says no Starmer immediately backs down yes it is reasonable to ignore it.
The strawmanning you go in for really is quite spectacular although if we are looking at whether voters trust someone or not. Lucky Starmer isnt uturning almost as fast as Sunak eh? Oh shit he is and the right wing rags will use it as necessary.
Are we ignoring* that Labour plan to invest billions more than the Conservatives, and spend more on the NHS and education?
Where is that committment becvause I have not seen it. all I* have seen is a willingness to stick with tory spending plans. Link perhaps?
Are we ignoring* that Labour plan to invest billions more than the Conservatives,
We're not so much ignoring as wondering whether it exists this week or not.
Schroedinger's Green Investment plan may or may not exist depending on who Labour is pitching it to at that particular moment.
Apparently the spending on NHS was going to be funded by ending non-dom status (under Labour's self imposed fiscal rules it has to be paid for) but now that plan is going to bring in less:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/12/flagship-labour-plan-scrap-non-dom-tax-breaks
The trouble is, everything seems to get u-turned on. Or watered down. Or quietly abandoned.
Labour may or may not be planning to increase spending. They are trying so hard to please everyone that they are constantly contradicting themselves to the point it is impossible to know what they are planning.
Labour are planning to invest and spend more. That they talk about prudent spending etc is because they listened to why people weren't voting Labour before. Happy to talk about the eleged, "U-turns" in the Starmer thread. This is one is now being filled with the same claims of the same few people. Odds on most people now ignoring this thread 'till something big happens relating to Sunak. Shame, but that's the pattern.
Happy to talk about the eleged, “U-turns” in the Starmer thread.
LOL! I assume that is supposed to read 'alleged u-turns'. Are you seriously doubting that Starmer has preformed any u-turns?!?!
What is this obsession with separating every political individual out into their own thread?
This is a mountain biking forum. One political thread is more than enough and yet Starmer fans seem to want to have a special thread where they can slag off the Tories unchallenged (let's face it, who is going to defend anything the Tories do at the point) while avoiding any uncomfortable questions on the 'correct thread for talking about Starmer'.
I can't be bothered looking through 8 different threads. If I've got something to say then I'll just say it on whatever thread everyone is already on that day.
The fact this thread is the one apparently reserved for slagging off Sunak means it is the right one to challenge Starmer fans because at least you are actually on this one.
Kelvin - I thought the Starmer / Reeves line was they are going to stick with tory borrowing and taxation levels. so no extra spending
got a link to this commitment to spend more because I haven't seen it - just the opposite
Getting money from non-dom changes was never going to happen. Yes it is a good idea to tighten up on it but not for monetary income as they will avoid paying it by whatever means possible
interesting take from the yougov poll for the torygraph
Kelvin – I thought the Starmer / Reeves line was they are going to stick with tory borrowing and taxation levels. so no extra spending
No. Borrowing to invest is on. From year one, but ramping up in subsequent years. Something like £100 billion for green energy alone in the first term. Where as "day to day" spending seeks to balance additional funding with tax changes in the first few years. So more investment AND more day to day spending. Both are to be increased. The former through "borrowing", the later through making taxes more progressive (through targeting tax rules that most voters understand as tax breaks/loopholes for the rich only).
What is this obsession with separating every political individual out into their own thread?
Posting the same points in all threads might be entertaining to a handful of repetitive posters, but it drives off all the infrequent posters, who do have interesting things to say when the thread stays on topic... but just abandon these threads when the same few people post the same stuff they've already flooded the other threads with and bears little relation to the topic of the thread they've opened for a quick read.
Id still like a link as that goes against everything I have read on labours plans. the whole green thing was 28 billion and has been taken from a pladge to an aim ie no hard committment
Something like £100 billion for green energy alone in the first term.
You really need to catch up with the backtracking. Its now an unknown amount possibly ramping up to the original 28 billion a year but based on their "fiscal rules".
Posted about this earlier in the thread. Have a go at the Sky interview the other day if you want, this really isn't for this thread though...
Relevant section of the interview is at 6:30
"Borrow to invest" is inside those fiscal rules.
Posting the same points in all threads might be entertaining to a handful of repetitive posters,
What is this "all threads" you talk of. There is this one and then a Starmer one somewhere way down the first page and other than that no political threads. Just need a thread called 'Current Political affairs' or something along those lines where we can merrily discuss Sunak, Starmer, policies or whatever without upset the thread police.
but it drives off all the infrequent posters, who do have interesting things to say when the thread stays on topic…
Exactly what voices do you think are missing from this particular thread? Do you think there are people with fresh takes that might make us rethink everything we know about Sunak but they don't post because we keep talking about Labour and Starmer?
I'm curious what you think this thread would look like if all mention of Starmer was banned. On topic seems to be slagging off Sunak with no one offering any opposing view.
Sure, we could do that but what would be the point? We know he's a busted flush and we know the Tories are destroying the country. Very few would argue against that.
What is up for debate is just how different things are going to be under Starmer. Unfortunately, we don't know because no one knows what the current pledges are and which ones have been abandoned.
Do you think there are people with fresh takes that might make us rethink everything we know about Sunak but they don’t post because we keep talking about Labour and Starmer?
Absolutely that. Well not some kind of ground breaking epiphany, just a broader sweep of voices about the actual subject of the thread.
Look, you and I are self aware enough to know whether we're one of those five to ten posters that ruin these threads for everyone else. I know I definitely am. And with that I'll shut up 'till everyone has had their 10 page repetitive discussion about Starmer and the thread gets back to Sunak in some way... in any way.
Exactly what voices do you think are missing from this particular thread?
I have barely posted in ages. It's just not worth it. Nothing new is being discussed, it's the same abrasive content from the same old terriers who keep on and on with the same old crap. I keep popping in to see if there's any news.
Look, you and I are self aware enough to know whether we’re one of those five to ten posters that ruin these threads for everyone else.
Actually, I think Labour are the ones ruining these threads.
They make pledges, they roll back, they unroll back partially, then reroll a bit more.
We're left unsure where they stand on anything and use our own preconceptions to fill in the gaps according to our own beliefs.
But OK, I'll try not posting for a while as well and see if anyone comes up with the incredible insight that means we all stop thinking Sunak is an out-of-his-depth right wing moron and is, in fact, a misunderstood genius.
I have barely posted in ages. It’s just not worth it. Nothing new is being discussed, it’s the same abrasive content from the same old terriers who keep on and on with the same old crap. I keep popping in to see if there’s any news.
Well if you posted something there would be some new content. What did you fancy discussing about Sunak today?
What is this obsession with separating every political individual out into their own thread?
Because every ****ing political thread comes back to the same few folks having the same ****ing argument about Starmer, pissing off people checking in on the original thread subject.
I would suggest that if you can't see that, you may be part of the problem.
*sigh*
[img] 
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...and theres a damn good reason nobody sane goes anywhere near that particular thread, hence the same 5 people trying to turn every politics-related thread into it
Do you know the odds on a May election?
I dont even know got to place a bet, merely curious at what the odds are. Lol
In the meantime, if we could get it back on topic:
our glorious leader is giving a speech this afternoon in Parliament which is nominally about Yemen, but not really.
What he's going to do is a desperate harking back to something more Brexity and try and stoke up some good old fashioned Nationalist Populism with some flag-shagging 'Britain is under attack' rhetoric in a desperate attempt to shift the polling.
Its almost like the battle lines are being drawn for an imminent general election
@Poopscoop - your present odds with the bookies are:
April-June 2024 - 4/1
July-September 2024 - 6/1
October-December 2024. - 4/1
Jan 2025. - 16/1
Well, I'm very sorry for violating your safe space.
I'm still wondering what crucial insights we're missing into Sunak though. Perhaps if those of us who aren't so keen on Starmer stay away for long enough a series of revelations will be made that completely change the way not just people on STW view Sunak but changes the way the entire country sees the current PM.
I wait (quietly) with bated breath.
By the way, you do know you and Sunak are the only people in the UK who still bring up Corbyn at every opportunity? At least you have that in common.
Well if you posted something there would be some new content.
.. or if someone else posted something.
I come to STW often to read about news that other people have shared. I don't read that much news, so it's quite useful. I didn't realise I had a minimum post quota to give me the right to read other people's posts. It's a bit like listening to the radio, without joining in phone-ins.
Wasn't the reason there are different threads because binners et al wanted somewhere they could rant about the tories without being challenged on what labour would do differently? Politics reduced to schoolboy football tribalism. Instead of actually discussing anything all some want to do is post memes and shout 'you're shit and you know you are".
And BTW, this concept of 'ruining' a thread, what a total load of bollocks. It's an internet forum FFS, there's nothing to be ruined. In the grand scheme of things of what is worth protecting or not, a STW forum thread is almost at the bottom of the list.
Anyway, back on topic. Isn't Sunak frightfully horrid. And look how small he is! Aren't the tories evil, terrible people! We really must get rid of them, then everything will be ok. Won't it?
binners et al wanted somewhere they could rant about the tories without being challenged on what labour would do differently?
But so what if he does. You're allowed to call out someone as shit without having a better alternative idea, surely? The entire football industry in the UK is based on this principle.
It's about identifying a problem. If you don't speak up when there are problems because you don't have a solution, then no-one will know about the problems and nothing will get done.
Good grief do none of you lefties actually work, I've only popped in during my lunch break to see some insightful discussion about our current prime minister but you're still all yelling at cats.
Back on topic, lil Rishi is a very small man in every sense of the word. There will be an election in May despite what lil Rishi says. Starmer and lil Rishi are not 2 sides of the same coin.
And off topic, voters in Scotland are fundamentally better than in England, really......to quote Charlie Brown, good grief.
And off topic, voters in Scotland are fundamentally better than in England, really
apart from nobody said that - what we said was the independence debate and the complex voting systems have led to greater political engagement - that and the fact in Scottish elections every vote counts
So to get back towards the topic - does anyone truely believe that Reform are going to stand candidates in tory seats? they6 will rteach a deal with the tories like before IMO - and push the tories further right
Its the only chance tories have of not being wiped out. I am sure Sunak will be asking them what they need to stand down in tory seats. Expect withdrawal from the ECHR in the tory manifesto or some other sop to reform
You’re allowed to call out someone as shit without having a better alternative idea
Unless that someone is Keir Starmer or Tony Blair. And surely we can all agree that politics is different to football? People don't go hungry or sleep on the streets because Man City keep winning the premier league. And you know some of us on here do like to talk about solutions. I've mentioned loads of ideas over the years, many of them entirely sensible and practical, and generally when that happens binners responds with his Monty Python video and others whine about 'ruining the thread'.
So anyway, yah boo tories! bloody w***ers! etc...
So to get back towards the topic – does anyone truely believe that Reform are going to stand candidates in tory seats?
I saw Tice interviewed on Newsnight last week and he said that there is no way on earth they're going to be suckered again like they were by Johnson in 2019. He sounded like he really meant it too when he said there would be absolutely no deals this time around.
You may well say more fool them for trusting a proven liar, or at least getting it in writing, but there you go.
They stood their candidates down on the strength of promises from Boris that he then - surprise, surprise - went back on.
It seemed from what Tice was saying that revenge is a dish best served cold and they are positively relishing splitting the Tory vote to unseat many of their MP's who were complicit with Johnson as he 'betrayed' them, one of whom was Sunak.
You reap what you sow, eh?
They're presently polling at 10 - 11%, but I imagine that what keeps Rishi awake at night is the return of the man-frog to lead Reform/Brexit/Whatever they're called this week, into the upcoming election. Something he has conspicuously not ruled out