Sunak almost certainly keeping friends with the BoE in the timing of reduced interest rates for an election. I think that's why he needs the time.
Pivot soon on rates.
Perfect Tory bullshit festival.
Although as we know interest rates did little to lower inflation as inflation was on its way down.
(Got to giggle at Bell saying no one saw this coming. Plenty of non-classical economists pointed this out last year.)
Savings versus the lag on fixed mortgage rates helped this one along.
In fact higher interest rates were very good for some folk. I'm taking a guess that the the MPC realised getting to 6% rates would likely tip the balance away from interest earners to people with struggling debt, with all the mortgages about to expire
https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1743215764285317593?t=x_PgVgPcm62RfTu3U5p1dg&s=19
Interest rates in the USA have amounted to a 6% equivalent of deficit spending into the economy. So the US has been booming along on many metrics.
None of this is good for inequality though.
https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1743218094644908138?t=GfzKlvVMifb4YRyIkOPRvQ&s=19
Suddenly it will be we've cut interest rates - despite leaning heavily away from the BoE being independent when it suits them.
Anyway the Tories are quietly 'banking'on an interest rate turnaround. That's their magic bullet.
So to recap we paid a load of interest income to boomers (probably mostly Tory) and made it appear like we're tackling inflation - which helped offset their inflation.
Now we're about to lower rates and celebrate that as an achievement and probably pump the hose market again.
Monetarism really is a dire farce.
It might be just enough for the Tories to make a bit of ground and push small boats away for a bit
On top of this markets across the world have mostly ended on an apparently' unexpected' (big lol to anyone who didn't realise adding interest money to the economy goes into assets) high and the pound has rallied. Etc.
Capitalism doing its thing for a few very wealthy people. But I bet you don't feel wealthier?
*house market.
Hose market is doing just fine.
My hose shares just doublet.
None of this is good for inequality though.
Luckily we are on a Sunak thread so that doesn't matter.
Yougov showing a pretty consistent 20pt deficit for the Tories
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1744666246182813837
and Sunak at his lowest ever approval rating of 18%!
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1744656536759152651
His latest relaunch (is this about the 5th?), which seems to involve flying around the country in his helicopter delivering uninspiring messages to bored-looking Tory activists, really isn't going well, is it?
A nice summary by John Crace...
Rish! frets that Starmer will take us back to square one. But we’re at square minus four
rone
Free MemberAnyway the Tories are quietly ‘banking’on an interest rate turnaround.
Or, realistically, just enough of a fall in interest rates to convince stupid people that it's all fixed. That's been the messaging all along "we'll half inflation" OH ok but that's still quite high and does nothing to reverse the harm people have suffered from the high period, anything else "we'll half inflation, half is less"
Klunk is an empiricist social scientist, laughed like a drain.
possibly but I was quite drunk when I wrote that :D. Wellingborough had a bit of character 20 yrs ago, interesting market stalls and second hand book shops.... you know you've hit rock bottom when even mcdonalds gets out of Dodge.
Conspiracy Rishi there, not only failing completely to understand basic planning concepts but allowing it to be repeated across departments.
One of our riding gang was absolutely convinced about this not been able to drive more than 15 mins, we told him it was a good thing as it would keep our end of the valley only for local riders 🙂
Wellingborough had a bit of character 20 yrs ago, interesting market stalls and second hand book shops…. you know you’ve hit rock bottom when even mcdonalds gets out of Dodge.
But, but, the local MP has been leading the charge for regeneration and pride in the town!
Id not heard of the 15 minutes cities thing till a cashier in my local coop was very animated in telling a customer she obviously knew to look it up as he "wouldn't believe what they are going to do."
I'm guessing she's read it all on FB to be honest. It's amazing for make people get their entire news input from FB and the Luke these days. It explains a lot.
Id not heard of the 15 minutes cities thing till a cashier in my local coop was very animated in telling a customer she obviously knew to look it up as he “wouldn’t believe what they are going to do.”
I’m guessing she’s read it all on FB to be honest. It’s amazing for make people get their entire news input from FB and the Luke these days. It explains a lot.
These nutters appear quite regularly on local face book “spotted” groups. When you try to engage to point out their nonsense they accuse you of being a sheep. Oh the ironing 😂
Saw Lil Rishys TV ad earlier , boasting how he has reduced “the boats” by 36% . No Rishy , that’ll be the weather that’s done that love 🤦♂️
^^ Yeah, conspiracy types don't do irony. Lol
I got a campaign flyer through this afternoon from Labour. They are definitely preparing for a potential snap election in may, should it happen. It's entirely possible it might of course, so I'm glad to see they are gearing for the coming battle.
I suspect it's going to be a nasty decisive campaign from the Tories and they will be attempting to throw as much shit Starmer's way as possible.
They have nothing to lose.
It’s all going to end up being a bloody big mess isn’t it. A lot of people are either not going to bother to vote , or just close their eyes and pick one that is not the Tories .
All parties will all say we will do this , or do that , but when it comes down to it , they are all full of shit and rarely do what they promise.
revs1972
Free Member
It’s all going to end up being a bloody big mess isn’t it. A lot of people are either not going to bother to vote , or just close their eyes and pick one that is not the Tories .
All parties will all say we will do this , or do that , but when it comes down to it , they are all full of shit and rarely do what they promise.
I hear you but I'm a little more optimistic. I think there's never been a time when the difference between the two main parties is easier to see. The corruption, constant scandals, profiteering, and complete disdain the current government show for it's own populace. I never thought I'd live to see a government like the current Tory party. I see none of this in Labour/LibDems even if I don't agree with all their policies.
I've no doubt Labour is going to really struggle to turnthe UK around in a single term, even two. Everything is utterly broken.
When I wake up to see a Labour government after the GE though (I really hope, or LibDem/Green coalition would be fine!) I'll at least feel like we have a government that isn't actively trying to f**** over 99% of its population. That'll be a good enough start for me.
Saw Lil Rishys TV ad earlier , boasting how he has reduced “the boats” by 36% . No Rishy , that’ll be the weather that’s done that love
To be fair, the number of boats has probably reduced because of the deal we did to send Albanians back.
Which is nothing to do with the Rwanda plan.
I think there’s never been a time when the difference between the two main parties is easier to see
As far as I can tell Labour's pitch is, 'We're the Tories but competent.'
For people who liked the Tories back in 2014 it's great. For those of us who didn't, not so much.
I think there’s never been a time when the difference between the two main parties is easier to see
Strange comment as to me they have never been closer. Yes the tories are more corrupt, profiteering etc,. but they always have been it is just more blatant now. On policy and what difference they will make there is little difference.
They were a lot more different just 6 few years ago when that horrible Corbyn man was leading Labour with policies and beliefs that actually looked like Labour ones.
I've nothing against Corbyn, his Brexit stance not withstanding. I voted for him twice.
However the inconvenient reality is that he wasn't elected. I have no wish to see Labour in eternal opposition. It just ensures the Tories stay in power and I don't think the country can afford that luxury.
As far as the Tories and Labour being the same? It's a pretty extraordinary statement and one that I predict won't be shared by the majority of voters in a GE just as it hasn't been shared by voters in the by-elections of late.
If you wish to vote Tory as you see them as the same as Labour, that is for you and your conscience but it's not something I will be a part of.
As far as the Tories and Labour being the same? It’s a pretty extraordinary statement and one that I predict won’t be shared by the majority of voters in a GE just as it hasn’t been shared by voters in the by-elections of late.
OK, can you give any examples of Labour policies that aren't basically the same as the Tories?
It seems pretty much every time Labour find they have a policy that is different to the Tories they change it to whatever the Tories are doing and say, 'We'll do the same thing but not shit'.
This article is 7 months old and the policies of the two parties have converged even more since then.
Like I said, if you were a 2015 Tory supporter (or even a 2015 UKIP supporter) then this Labour government is pretty much a perfect fit for you. Not for the rest of us, unfortunately.
If you wish to vote Tory as you see them as the same as Labour, that is for you and your conscience but it’s not something I will be a part of.
I haven't seen anyone on here say they are planning on voting Tory in a long time. Unless you are one of those people who consider any vote that is not for Labour a vote for the Tories?
Like I said, if you were a 2015 Tory supporter (or even a 2015 UKIP supporter) then this Labour government is pretty much a perfect fit for you.
Sorry Bruce but if you believe my stance to be supportive of UKIP and Labour to be a surrogate for their policies then there isn't much to be productively discussed here.
I appreciate the discussion but it's not something I wish to be mired in as it's obvious that we are miles apart on this.
I fully understand that you also want better for the country and it's people but our preferred way of achieving that are contradictory I'm afraid.
If you wish to vote Tory as you see them as the same as Labour, that is for you and your conscience but it’s not something I will be a part of.
I vote Green. I did vote Labour in Corbyn years and did have some hope for Starmer on day one but he is just turning into a tory more each day. If you think there will be any noticeable difference to peoples lives under a Starmer Labour then I think you will be disappointed but we can check that out in a few years time.
From my perspective there is a considerable difference between the conservatives and Labour. Labour get branded as having the same policies but quite a few on here, but it misses the fundamental message starmer and co are making, which is we need to cost up what we are planning to do and fund what's realistic [rone - I know all the arguments before you chip in]. Whether or not you agree with that, they are taking a rational approach. The big picture stuff; new houses, investment in the NHS, green economy, etc. Is a differentiator to the Tories and is progressive
We haven't had policy details yet because why show your hand to this unscrupulous set of bastards.
Who wants a wager that as soon as lil rish calls the election a whacking manifesto from labour gets published?
I reckon there's a whole raft of policies that will get saved back for after the spring budget so the Tories can't counter them before an election
To me it feels like labour are playing poker and rishi is playing snap
I appreciate the discussion but it’s not something I wish to be mired in as it’s obvious that we are miles apart on this.
Asking how Labour policies are significantly different from Tory policies always goes the same way:
Followed by:
I can't possibly discuss this with you as we are simply too far apart. Good day, sir!
'Labour are just the same' will be a classic attack line from Tory shills and client media over the next six months. And if you can't tell any difference between them and the weird Alan B'stard tribute acts currently running the shop, you need to give your head a wobble.
We haven’t had policy details
Yeah we have. The problem is they keep abandoning the policies that aren't the same as the Tory ones.
And if you can’t tell any difference between them and the weird Alan B’stard tribute acts currently running the shop, you need to give your head a wobble.
For the third time of asking then, what are the policy differences?
I can’t possibly discuss this with you as we are simply too far apart. Good day, sir!
I won't change your opinion and you won't change mine and I've no inclination to be involved in the perma arguments in the political threads. It's nothing more than that I'm afraid. If you wish to take it as validation of your position I don't mind that at all.
what are the policy differences?
Pick a policy area? Oil, gas, health, education, water, housing, taxation?
Pick any, and I for one would be happy to discuss it in the Starmer thread.
https://labourlist.org/2023/05/labour-manifesto-2024-election-what-policies-npf-party/
Most of this draft stuff is likely to be in the manifesto... although when we actually get that is down to Sunak announcing he’s ready for the election that voters overwhelmingly want now not later…
I won’t change your opinion
Not trying to change anyone's opinion, just trying to establish the differences in policy between Labour and Tories.
Labour are going to build 1.5 million new homes. The Tories are going to build 300k per year.
Labour are 'committed' to the Green transition. The Tories are apparently also 'committed'.
If you want to say you think the Tories are lying then I'd 100% agree with that. Doesn't change the fact they are saying they are going to do the same things. Labour even admit that, saying they are going to do the same things but less shit.
In the short term the country would almost certainly be better off under a Labour government. In the long term, it is going to make not one bit of difference. People's lives are not going to improve in any noticeable way and in six years time the country is going to elect a raving right wing fantasist government after the hopes people had for improvement under Labour are dashed.
It's not 1997 and a 10 year long debt fueled party that everyone is invited to is not on the cards.
Sticking with the status quo is a very dangerous tactic.
although when we actually get that is down to Sunak announcing he’s ready for the election that voters overwhelmingly want now not later…
I was down at my Mum's in London last week and answered the door (Mum was in the bathroom) to the local Labour Councillors who were out doing some canvassing. It's a Labour Council where she lives, pretty much always has been and they significantly increased their majority in the last round of council elections so it's a very safe seat but they're clearly upping their presence and being out and about, they said to me they expect a GE to be in May.
Most of this draft stuff is likely to be in the manifesto…
Does that include the stuff they've already rolled back on?
https://www.carbonbrief.org/daily-brief/labour-cuts-back-28bn-green-investment-pledge-again/
I sometimes think we're better off just waiting for Sunak's latest brainfart to find out what Labour next policy is going to be.
It's too easy to lose sight of the bottom line in all this - we need rid of the person this thread is about in as convincing a manner as possible, and we need rid of the bottom-feeders around him wherever possible too.
The polls will tighten, and the outcome (or the scale of it) is by no means certain. Perhaps with a thumping majority, and the prospect of two or three terms in power, Labour will be a bit bolder, and we'll get more of the stuff on our wishlist.
If our apathy gives the Tories a chance to rebuild quickly, then we have only ourselves to blame for substituting a Labour government that is not socialist enough for a Tory one whose culture wars have taken them even further rightwards.
@crazy-legs - I've been out delivering labour party leaflets this morning, which were sent out by central office to every constituency in the country this week.
Absolutely nobody is buying Rishi's Autumn election nonsense and are instead working on the certainty that the General Election will be at the same time as the local elections in May. From here on in its election mode.
Labour cuts back £28bn green investment pledge again
Already discussed in the Starmer thread. All the targets remain the same. Suank has increased the baseline, by announcing £8 billion of his own. Amount to be invested by Labour is still the same as originally announced. 2030 deadline still in place.
Let's not copy and paste that whole discussion here... or this'll become another circular thread for all but the same five people to avoid opening. But here's Starmer being questioned on this recently...
Asked about the 2030 commitment, he told Wilfred Frost on Sky News: "I'm not prepared to move that date. People keep saying to me, are you moving back on your goal? No, we're not - clean power by 2030.
"But look, it's absolutely clear to me that the Tories are trying to weaponise this issue, the £28bn, etc.
"It's a fight I want to have, if we can have a fight going into the election between an incoming Labour government that wants to invest in the future long-term strategy that will lower our bills and give us energy independence, versus stagnation, more of the same under this government.
"If they want that fight on borrow to invest, I'm absolutely up for that."
As good a thread as any to post this.
The government has confirmed by-elections will take place next month in two Conservative-held constituencies.
The by-elections must take place within 27 days of the writ, and are expected to be held on 15 February.
I'm sad enough to say I'll be having a late night to see the results come in!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67943546
It’s too easy to lose sight of the bottom line in all this – we need rid of the person this thread is about in as convincing a manner as possible
Actually, I believe the bottom line is to finally start shifting the country away from the right wing populist fever dream it seems to have found itself in.
Getting rid of the Tories does no good if it ensures a disappointing Labour government ends up delivering a Braverman or Badenoch led borderline fascist government in 6 years time.
Not holding Labour and Starmer to account for their repeated U-turns is not helping that goal.
just trying to establish the differences in policy between Labour and Tories.
Sunak used to be a hedge fund manager and made millions in the stock market crash of 2008; and Starmer used to be a human rights lawyer.
Sunak used to be a hedge fund manager and made millions in the stock market crash of 2008; and Starmer used to be a human rights lawyer.
That in no way shape or form tells us anything about Labour or Starmer's direction. In fact no one knows anything about Starmer's direction. Not even Starmer - it appears.
(I've no love of hedge funders either.)
The main economic model going forward looks to be unchanged to me.
Already discussed in the Starmer thread. All the targets remain the same. Suank has increased the baseline, by announcing £8 billion of his own. Amount to be invested by Labour is still the same as originally announced. 2030 deadline still in place.
It might be discussed but it's not resolved other than fiscal rules.
Besides 28Bn won't touch the sides.
Sunak used to be a hedge fund manager and made millions in the stock market crash of 2008; and Starmer used to be a human rights lawyer.
I have no doubt he is a perfectly good chap.
Sunak used to be a hedge fund manager and made millions in the stock market crash of 2008; and Starmer used to be a human rights lawyer.
As Sunak would be able to quote previous performance is no indication of future performance.
Liz Truss used to be a libdem and a firm republican yet when she took office she immediately went off to see the queen and...ahhh.
Truss' past performance was a very good indication of how utterly unfit to be PM she was, any idiot could read up on her history and know that she shouldn't have been let anywhere near the top job, ever. Not sure regicide can really be added to her CV though. 😉
Lil Rishi has sent the bombers into Yemen then promptly got on a plane to Ukraine to strut around in a flak jacket
Someone is most definitely after their 'Thatcher Moment', aren't they?
Someone is most definitely after their ‘Thatcher Moment’, aren’t they?
Election in Feb?
Well its certainly not going to be in November, when he'd suggested.
It does seem like he's entered full on electioneering mode. Presuming its in May, we've got months of awful Rishi photo ops like this to look forward to
Is Lil Rish! having a growth spurt or have his trousers been shortened?
The best tailors in the business and they all look like someone dipped them in glue and threw them through a charity shop window. Boris Johnson was worse admittedly and there are certain people (like Donald Trump) who can't look good no matter what but FFS, get a proper fitting suit. It's quite telling that Zelensky looks more authoritative wearing a hoodie and a pair of combat trousers!
Although please God, don't let Sunak decide that he should wear similar, that'd be SO ridiculous!
Fisher Price - My First Suit
^^ Is it me or has the little fellas shoes got a bit of a Cuban heels thing going on?
You can still get 'em
[img] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bndz-FNIcAEfnD5?format=jpg&name=small [/img]
The best tailors in the business and they all look like someone dipped them in glue and threw them through a charity shop window. Boris Johnson was worse admittedly and there are certain people (like Donald Trump) who can’t look good no matter what but FFS, get a proper fitting suit. It’s quite telling that Zelensky looks more authoritative wearing a hoodie and a pair of combat trousers!
Vain people often look worse, because they focus so much on looks it highlights the deficiencies, eg trump with his hair. With that Photo above Zelensky looks like someone who knows he has to do the photo that it is part of the game in getting support, but wants to get it out of the way and get on with the more important stuff. Sunak just looks desperate for attention the photo shoot is the important stuff for him, his whole "look" is based on what he thinks he should project, from the expensive but ill fitting suits to the gormless grin, but when he gets doen to business I expect him to just repeat the soundbites his handlers have given him, I suspect he is little different in these meetings than he is in interviews, just an unsubstantial vacuous airhead who believes he has a right to lead without having a ****ing clue how to lead.
Watching the footage from Ukraine on the news, he’s such a tragic little dweeb.
He’s obviously trying to do the hard man thing, but everything about his demeanour and body language says ‘right, we’ve got the photos, just get me the **** out of here’
So very much like his trips to the north of England
Zelensky has the exact energy of "succesful science fiction author meeting smelly neckbeard fan" there.
"Actually, I believe the bottom line is to finally start shifting the country away from the right wing populist fever dream it seems to have found itself in."
I think the country shifted past that point some time ago...
"Getting rid of the Tories does no good if it ensures a disappointing Labour government ends up delivering a Braverman or Badenoch led borderline fascist government in 6 years time."
I think the Tories will return to being a more traditional conservative party the second Lil' Rishi gets the boot. The ERG and nutcases like Braverman are a busted flush.
It was interesting to see Badenock serve the Brexit mob their arises on a plate with regards her not going through with the 'bonfire of the regulations' Bill.
When criticised she said "I am not an arsonist, I'm a conservative". Which kind of suggests to me that she has used the right wing of the party to get a platform and then ditched them once she has established popularity amongst the membership.
Mistaking Badenock for Braverman 2.0 would be a very foolish thing for Labour to do. The only way Badenoch will not be the next Tory party leader is if the RW manage to obstruct her in whatever form of leadership election they contrive this time.
Suella Braverman will be the right wing candidate and that will alow Kemi Badenock to position herself as the 'one nation Tory' who can unite the party. Braverman is all bark whilst Badenoch is utterly ruthless. Her strategy has been to build popularity amongst the membership (where she has a huge lead) rather than rely on factions and cliques amongst MP's.
I think Badenock will get the tory party leadership this year and wll reuild the party from the ground up in much he same way as Starmer had to do with Labour post Cornyn. The ERG will be put out to grass and the red wall knuckle draggers will have lost their seats. A shadow cabinet will have to be assembled from the ranks of more centrist, home counties type MP's.
The right wing populist experiment is already over, even JRM and his ilk know that the gig is up, it's just that no one has told Suella yet...
Personally I think the polar opposite of that is going to happen
The only Tory MPs that will retain their seats after the upcoming decimation are the pure gammons where they’ll the result of constituencies where they’ll vote a pigs arse in as long as it’s got a blue rosette on
That’s the Christopher Chopes and Bill Cashes of this world. Absolute headbangers. And don’t forget that the ultimate decision goes to the racist pensioners in Eastbourne
They’ll vote for Braverman in a heartbeat because the reason they lost the election is because they weren’t UKIP enough
It’s somewhat ironic that they’re going to have the choice of two women of colour to vote to implement their right wing, anti-immigrant, racist, sexist, misogynistic agenda.
You couldn’t make it up
The only Tory MPs that will retain their seats after the upcoming decimation are the pure gammons where they’ll the result of constituencies where they’ll vote a pigs arse in as long as it’s got a blue rosette on
Agree and count my constituency in on that as I would put a lot of money on Swayne retaining his seat yet again.
The problem they will have is that all their remaining MPs will be those headbangers and outside of the constituencies who voted for them nobody wants that sort of government.
We need to see some real changes from Starmer which are noticeable to peoples day to day lives (i.e. not an obsession with immigration) within 5 years because as we know people have short memories and are happy to vote the tories back in.
Happy for you to disagree binners but I'll stick my neck out and say that Badenoch will be the next leader of the Tories and will be PM in 6 years time having steered her party back towards the centre.
Part of you knows I'm right binners, that's why you and others are so keen to paint Badenock as Braverman 2.0 when you know Badenock is clearly a far more formidable opponent for a Labour government than Cruella. A Braverman front bench would be another reshuffle of the same old dossers, whilst a Badenock front bench will have almost entirely dispensed with the old guard.
So if I were in your shoes (as a Labour party activist) I'd be praying for a Braverman victory as it would make Labour's job in government far easier.
So place your bet binners, though I'd advise that you have a word with your other half before putting any money down as she generally seems to have better luck / judgement in these matters!
As for Starmer, dull as he is, I give him credit for bringing the Labour party back from the brink. Considering the two ongoing conflicts in the world, can you imagine how big the Tory lead wold be right now if Jezzer was still in charge?
I don't see badenoch bringing the Tories back to the centre, she's full on culture war and even if she tried to be more moderate the ukipisation of the Tories means many of her own MPs, not to mention the membership whipped into a froth GBNews etc, will fight that tooth & nail
Someone is most definitely after their ‘Thatcher Moment’, aren’t they?
To give that a bit of gravity - 3/4s of the world's democracies have a major election this year
whilst a Badenock front bench will have almost entirely dispensed with the old guard.
After the upcoming electoral defeat, the only Tory MPs left will be the old guard. All the 2019 intake will be gone and you'll be left with the timeserving gammons in ultra safe home counties seats. Thats who she'll have to choose from and lets be honest, the Tory party is hardly a hotbed of young talent as it is, is it?
So place your bet binners
I already have. I put a tenner on Braverman months ago at 9/1. She's presently 4/1. Badenoch is 3/1. I still think Cruella is a shoe in with the membership. If she's on the final ballot, she's in
Considering the two ongoing conflicts in the world, can you imagine how big the Tory lead wold be right now if Jezzer was still in charge?
*shudders*
Rishi would have called an election months ago on the back of a 20 point poll lead
inkster - what is the relevance of referring to Corbyn?
He was suspended in October 2020 - more than 3 years ago - and still is.
Do not underestimate Badenock. I wouldn't rely on her being the lesser of the evils
Looks like Cruella is leading a posse of the usual backbench nutjobs to vote against Rishi’s Rwanda bill on Tuesday, unless he amends it to include withdrawing from the ECHR
Looks like they’ve got the numbers to defeat it too. This is actually going to be quite funny to watch, Rishi having set himself up for this particular fall when championing her ‘batshit’ proposal to ‘stop the boats’
"inkster – what is the relevance of referring to Corbyn?"
To make binners shudder, that's all...
Though I suppose if Labour can make a swing from a pretty far left position to whatever you might call their position now and reap the rewards at the polls, then why can't the Tories do likewise and ditch their failed populist experiment, a failed experiment that has gone on far too long and is no longer delivering any dividens.
Not sure you'll be picking up any dividends from the bookies either binners, though at 9/1 i can hardly blame you for having a punt. After all should you win, it would be a win, win, you'd cash in and have a much less competent leader of the opposition to contend with. The Braverman choice would be Labours best chance of getting a second term.
Braverman would take the Tories into the abyss and I doubt she would last the full term. I think Badenoch would sèe it through to the next election but as ever, it's all in the hands of some old codgers in Eastbourne.
Though I suppose if Labour can make a swing from a pretty far left position
Point of order - it was just a standard European social democratic position. Nothing far left about it.
Nothing far left about it.
Whether thats true (and its not) the perception of most voters was that Corbyn was a far left loon and he was piss poor at working the media (which is a basic requirement for a politican) so thats what stuck. Sunak tried to portray himself as a competant get things done leader, the perception of the public is hes the opposite hence the mess he's in.
He doesn’t even believe in the Rwanda plan, so it’s hilarious that he has to defend it while someone who is actually mad enough to want it is actively scuppering it.
Its priceless, isn't it?
A PM and Home Secretary who both think its a 'batshit' idea but have made it the hill they're going to die on, and a former home secretary, who believes in it as an article of faith, determined to torpedo the whole thing.
Only in this present tory party could something as unhinged as this be happening
why can’t the Tories do likewise and ditch their failed populist experiment, a failed experiment that has gone on far too long and is no longer delivering any dividends
Because the Tory party was purged by Johnson of all non-believers. The few sane members left are all standing down at the next election anyway, leaving a party rump of absolute headbangers, both MPs and membership.
We know its mental. Most of the electorate now think its insane, but within the party its like a cult and absolutely nobody inside is prepared to stand up and say 'you know what.... this is all completely nuts!', least of all Kemi Badanoch. Whether its her or Braverman, they'll march the remaining Tory MPs off to the outer wolds of far right loony-tunes-ville previously only the domain of Richard Tice and Tommy Robinson
@inkster - I put a tenner on Truss being elected over 6 months before she was and everyone was saying Rishi was an absolute shoe-in. That was also at 9/1 (IIRC Sunak was 3/1), so you never know 😉
stumpyjon - name one labour policy under corbyn that was not social democratic mainstream.
Oh Christ! We’ve done this to death.
It doesn’t matter. The entire electorate found the idea of Magic Grandad as PM about as appealing as a fart in a lift.
When he finally tottered off to the allotment, years too late, Labour we’re 24 points behind in the polls, they now have a 20 point lead.
That’s all that matters. Ask Rishi. He dreams he was facing a muppet like Corbyn in May.
It doesn’t matter.
It does matter since you keep willingly repeating the hard right lies about where policies lie on the spectrum then it starts to be accepted as fact. Like the claims about the tories being a part of law and order or being good with the economy.
Then we end up with centre right positions being the norm and people going on about how the tory now are pushing hard right arguments.
This is basic political positioning that even six formers can understand so its surprising someone who looks down on them like you do fails to grasp it.
Nobody has asserted any of those things other than you
Corbyn was an absolute liability with more baggage than the cargo hold of a 747. Nobody was paying that much attention to the policies because everyone thought he looked like one of those blokes in the park who shouts at buses
As someone else noted; thank Christ he’s nowhere near the Parliamentary Labour Party with what’s presently going on in the world. He’d be even more use to the Tory party now than the hopeless old goat was for the last 2 elections
Anyway… this Rishi Sunak bloke? The one the threads about…
Nobody has asserted any of those things other than you
Sorry I know you have difficulty discussing politics beyond childish caricatures, images and regurgitating the hardright presses attack lines but are you really arguing that the overton window isnt a thing?
You havent noticed how policies that Thatcher thought were a step too far were taken after new labour stabilised them?
You really should stop insulting sixth formers and try to learn from them since your arguments barely get above trump levels including the spewing rubbish and then going wahhhhhhhhhhhhh what about the thread title.
You lot really don't get it do you, nobody apart from a few really care about policy detail, apart from the far left. No it's not right but that's the reality. At the moment everything from Rishi is toxic soundbites moving the country (or some of the less savoury parts of it) even further into xenophobia and intolerance.
Even if Starmers economic policies were identical to the Tories* we'd still be better off as at least the culture war would stop and we could get back to moving painfully slowly towards a more tolerant society which might then be ready for some of the more progressive left wing policies. We're still generations off a properly fair society and pretending we can get there if we could just elect the right sort of progressive politicians is unhinged. First off in the present climate they have next to zero popular appeal (hence the Corbyn comments) and even if they did sneak into power the electorate and populist politicians would soon have them out.
* They are not.
Bottom line as this is a Rishi thread, we need him and his toxic non polices out asap so stop grasping for utopia, the best you can have is Starmer, deal with it.