Other than being able to say he was one of the least popular PMs in Britain why has he done this?
Regardless of the fact that there are more of them knocking about than ever before, being able to say that you're an Ex-UK PM still opens doors. It's pretty much a life long pay-check. And in 5 years time, no-one will remember that you were totally shit at the job.
Will it shift the dial on the polls?
Well he could have benefitted much more by falsely taking all the credit for it, if he had focused more on making empty promises about the economy as Tories always do, instead of his ridiculous and pointless obsession with entering Nigel Farage territory and the bound-to-fail Rwanda scheme.
Will it shift the dial on the polls? (itll take a while for this to filter through to be people’s bank balances)
Will it though? Inflation has halved to 3.9% but that still means prices are rising by twice the target level. Things are still more expensive than they were, and continuing to increase. Whereas payrises are mainly done now, 8%ish on average in the private sector - that won't be repeated so pay is still lagging prices.
Add in the effect of energy not being subsidised any longer and (comparative terms, not talking about being an impoverished first time buyer 30 years ago) I've not had less for probably 10 years
Much like Johnson, the details of running the country come a very distant second to all of that.
Oddly, that's not true for Sunak. Even his critics say that he is very diligent when it comes to work and always reads the briefing papers etc. Not like Johnson at all.
It's clear that he has no vision for being PM and actually no great insight. From the outside, we can see that by historical accident he has stumbled upwards into the top job and is butchering it. That is not how he sees it: he doesn't think it's odd at all because cream rises, he is the cream, and so it was inevitable that he would be PM - or possibly CEO of Goldman Sachs or UN Sec Gen, but in any case one of the important jobs that important people like him are born to do. It is so obvious to him that it doesn't need explaining. And now he is in the top job, he is totally baffled that instead of everyone doing what he tells them to, these underlings keep asking him questions.
This inflation was always a transitory phenomenon. Tories knew this which is why they seized on the idea of it going back down - like they were at the controls. FFS.
Always worth remembering inflation itself is not CPI - CPI is just one type of measure. Although it does all get grouped together.
I personally think it could have a small bump upwards (oil) again at some point in the next few months. If that happens the Tories will look like total fools because of the way they have played the narrative.
Things are very rarely linear.
There is no absolute reason it should go back to 2% or whether this is even an ideal metric. But higher inflation is definitely not good for the polls.
...to be fair, Starmer has a slightly similar thing to Sunak's petulence, but it's more of a sighing, slightly condescending tone of "okay, children, thank you for that, but now the adults are here, we are going to do things this way..."
Regardless of the fact that there are more of them knocking about than ever before, being able to say that you’re an Ex-UK PM still opens doors. It’s pretty much a life long pay-check. And in 5 years time, no-one will remember that you were totally shit at the job.
So you think it is simply greed then. Someone who has half a billion (not including potential future inheritance) shouldn't be overly concerned with a lifelong pay check so not convinced it is the money.
It’s clear that he has no vision for being PM and actually no great insight.
Given the 'vision' of the last idiot in the job, I suppose we should be thankful we've at least been spared that.
Sunak is the same as Johnson and Cameron before him in that he simply regards the top job as his entitlement. His birthright. Not a clue what to do once he got there, but another tick on the CV and a ticket on the gravy train for life
Like them he also seems to struggle with the concept that this doesn't make you 'World King' and theres actually a degree of accountability that goes with the position as his petulant performance in front of the liaison committee yesterday showed
So you think it is simply greed then.
Yes. That's how these folks operate, It's another way of earning more money in the future, just one more thing to leverage. In that respect at least, he's no different than Johnson.
Sunak getting the bed he wanted on inflation just before end of the year we’ll please him
He'll shout about it, no doubt, even though it has virtually nothing to do with him. I think we get the quarterly GDP figures on the 22nd though, and I doubt there will be much to shout about there. Could it go negative? If it does, there is the possibility of having to fight an election in an actual recession (two successive quarters with negative GDP.)
You can't spend every waking moment saying 'war in Ukraine, covid, blah, blah, blah... inflation is entirely due to factors beyond our control', then do a quick switcharoo to 'we've managed to reduce inflation' and expect people to take you seriously.
The bottom line is that pretty much everyone, apart from the super-rich such as himself, is feeling a lot worse off than they were when he arrived at number 10 and thats all that matters
will also continue to vote tory no matter what they do
That is because to many selfish, greedy ****ers the tory party are always the best option as they will always do things closer to what they believe in than any other party (other than maybe Reform and the like but nobody seriously votes for them do they)
What will be interesting to see in May’s local elections is how well the Green and Liberal Democrat parties do.
I expect both parties to do well at the expense of Labour, due to Starmer’s unswerving support for Israel’s mass killing of civilians in Gaza.
Especially in London and areas with a high percentage of Muslim voters.
If this does indeed occur it will put pressure on Starmer and perhaps provide a useful distraction for Sunak.
I think the tories will actually benefit a lot more than either of those two parties, as they're pretty much irrelevant politically. I do feel that Starmer's staunch pro-Israel stance will lose Labour votes from said Muslim voters (myself included; I'm not voting for a party led by someone who chooses to pander to racists and has abandoned Labour's anti-traditional racism values), but I doubt many of those votes will go to either Lib Dems or the Greens, as those are seen very much as parties for middle class white people by many PoC. So I fear there will instead by a lot of voter apathy, as many Muslims don't feel represented at all by any mainstream parties. Most Muslims wouldn't vote for the tories under Sunak, as he's a Hindu. Muslim-Hindu tension is pretty high these days, thanks to Modi's increasingly fascist Islamophobic regime. There may well even be the odd protest party like Respect, popping up in certain areas. So Labour could win the GE, but lose seats in London. Which could then see a swing to the tories for the mayorship, which would be pretty damaging to Labour. If Labour lose London, then they won't last more than one term in government, and they won't be able to get much if anything done. Condemning us to even more misery under the tories.
By the BoEs own metric, it takes two years before interest rates have any noticeable effect on inflation.
So we were lowered during the pandemic and then March 22 back to 0.75 which is where they were for ages prior then started to come up 0.25pts a bit at a time from May 22. So high interest rates didn't have much time to filter through before CPI stated dropping. Hmm.
It's a total fraudulent system.
The net effect of interest rates is giving BoE created money to people who already have money. Rich people yeah?
That has distributional issues that benefit people with money over people that owe money. It's a tax in all but name.
On this occasion central banks were looking to be validated even though this was a supple side issue.
Which is why they have remained stubborn with cutting.
Make no mistake Labour endorsed the BoEs decisions too.
The bottom line is that pretty much everyone, apart from the super-rich such as himself, is feeling a lot worse off than they were when he arrived at number 10 and thats all that matters
Well yeah, given if you've got savings you're likely to be wiped out by mortgage interest, rent increases, energy. Interest rate system is bollocks and not fit for purpose.
It works for those who already own assets.
America has faired better due to very long fixed mortgages.
The BoE effectively paid commercial banks during this fiasco.
Supposed to be a lack of money in central government and its bank. 🤣
Sunak "The government doesn't have any money of its own."
(But its bank does you daft sod.)
It's one large regressive horror show.
I doubt many of those votes will go to either Lib Dems or the Greens, as those are seen very much as parties for middle class white people by many PoC.
That's not what I was picking up at a meeting at my local mosque last month. There was huge support for the LibDem guy in response to him calling for an immediate ceasefire and justice for the Palestinians.
In contrast there was zero support for the Tory and Labour speakers who refused to support the end of Israel's senseless slaughter of civilians in Gaza.
Also the fact that the LibDem foreign affairs spokesperson is half Palestinian whose family is currently being targeted by Israeli snipers in Gaza won't be lost on many opponents of the genocide.
So muslims won’t vote for Starmer because he is racist but then won’t vote for Sunak because he is Hindu and a Hindu in another country is a ****, mmm.
1) I don't think anyone is claiming to be the definitive voice of The Muslims.
2) It's not merely that Sunak and Modi are both Hindus, and Muslims are irrationally bracketing the two. Modi's fascism (and lynchings and pogroms go with it) is directed at Muslims in India, and it is interwoven with Hinduism. And then you have Sunak talking about his Hindu pride and making pilgrimages to Hindu shrines in India when he is supposed to be on government business.
If the boot were on the other foot, and you were a Christian who saw Christians being murdered by Wahhabi Muslims - you'd be totally mad to vote for a PM who was a proud wahhabi and made a point to weave his faith around his work.
3) and in any case, if you think Muslims are hypocritical for thinking in the way suggested above - then that just makes them as useless and inconsistent as the rest of us...who knew?
Sister and bil over later.
They will vote Tory.
Same as my cousin.
He'll vote Tory every single time, without question. He wouldn't even contemplate voting for anyone else.
Why?
Because he's enjoyed a very privileged, easy life, complete with all the middle-class trappings, despite being as thick as a boxing day turd. He wears his entitlement like a badge of honour. Come to think of it, he'd presently be a shoe in as a Tory MP. Ticks all the boxes
Sister and bil over later. They will vote Tory. 2 reasons.
1 They are racist. Not an assumption, they tell me they are.
2 Triple lock pension.
I think there's an excellent chance the Tories can deliver on #1...I have a feeling they're cruising for disappointment on #2, though...
I'm glad I haven't had to explain this. For the record; I don't subscribe to any form of prejudice or racism, but I'm just offering a bit of insight into how people behave. Muslim-Hindu hostility goes back a very long way. Such things become ingrained in culture. Not saying that's right, but that's how it is. To understand this a little better, have a look at Anglo-Irish politics throughout modern history. Different, but sort of similar.
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If the boot were on the other foot, and you were a Christian who saw Christians being murdered by Wahhabi Muslims – you’d be totally mad to vote for a PM who was a proud wahhabi and made a point to weave his faith around his work.
Nope, I would never vote for anyone that weaved their faith into their work - especially when their actions are typically the opposite of what anyone of the given faith should do.
I’m glad I haven’t had to explain this.
So am I, you do tend to use far too many words 🙂
So am I, you do tend to use far too many words
No-one’s forcing you to read it. I’m hardly Tolstoy.
No-one’s forcing you to read it.
Who says I read it 🙂
Who says I read it
Ah, that’ll explain why you didn’t understand it.
I'm still struggling with this.
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Will it shift the dial on the polls? (itll take a while for this to filter through to be people’s bank balances)
Having listened to the radio today I would guess that it won't affect polls. People.were told that high inflation makes prices high, but now that it is lower people seem to be expecting prices to go down again. They will be in for a surprise.
People.were told that high inflation makes prices high, but now that it is lower people seem to be expecting prices to go down again. They will be in for a surprise.
Sunak may have a point with his Maths agenda.
Regardless of the fact that there are more of them knocking about than ever before, being able to say that you’re an Ex-UK PM still opens doors. It’s pretty much a life long pay-check. And in 5 years time, no-one will remember that you were totally shit at the job.
I hate the Tories. But I sincerely hope there is one very notable exception to this. The one who lacked all of charisma, empathy, diligence, insight.
Having listened to the radio today I would guess that it won’t affect polls.
We've got another winter of energy company profiteering to get through yet, with considerably higher energy bills for everyone than last year.
Something the government intend to do absolutely nothing about in the short or long term
Talk of reduced inflation rates is largely academic when essentials like energy and food now cost substantially more than they did this time last year (and are still rising fast) and a lot of people were struggling then.
We also seem to be in a recession in all but name. Thats certainly the way it feels. So I doubt the floods of gratitude from a thankful nation that Sunak clearly thinks he deserves are likely to materialise.
It all just highlights that the man with the large heated swimming pool, who travels everywhere by helicopter, hasn't got the first idea what reality is like for large parts of the population of this country
People.were told that high inflation makes prices high, but now that it is lower people seem to be expecting prices to go down again.
Not helped when they keep lying about there being more money in your pockets than before. It's still getting less, just not as quickly as it was.
Well, got into a heated debate with my sister over the Tories.
Immigrants get to see GP's and dentists first apparently, they get priority. I don't doubt immigrants might be given a general health check on arrival for TB etc etc but that's not the same as walking into a surgery and having a vip lane straight to a GP's door. I don't know why I bother though, it's not about appointments really, it's about race/ colour.
What did amuse me though? My sister chats to a fellow dog walker on their walks but recently politics came up. My sister made it clear what she thought about immigrants and since then this guy with the dog won't talk to her anymore. Totally blanks her.😁
My response? "There an awful lot of people that *really* hate the Tories
and what they stand for." Which is patently true.
Oh, "Boris Johnson did the best he could during covid, he was only one man." I despair.
That’s how these folks operate, It’s another way of earning more money in the future, just one more thing to leverage. In that respect at least, he’s no different than Johnson.
I don't agree. For Truss, who is patently dim and nuts, being PM for any duration would have been a once-in-a-thousand-lifetimes opportunity to get her nose in the trough like never before.
But for Johnson and Sunak, being an MP and PM is a terrible way to get richer. They'd have made tons more money over their lifetime if they'd never bothered with politics. They're not doing it for the money. They're doing it for the arrogant lols (Johnson) or out of some weird sense of entitlement-mission (Sunak).
Sunak and Thatcher are supremely confident that they're right and believe(d) they have a duty to be PM. Thatcher seemed to really enjoy being PM. Sunak seems totally miserable all the time. But I have a way he can fix that...
As stated above, Sunak's FiL has probably asked what is he bringing to the party, he's married money how's about 'making' some. I don't think Johnson would've made a fortune outside of politics. He's lazy, **** struck, boozy and probably likes to powder his nose, he's was sacked too many times for lying therefore he was well suited to politics but not much else.
Johnson thought that a spell in no.10 was a natural thing for someone as talented as himself. And that it would help him monetise his very mediocre scribblings afterwards.
You really couldn’t make it up. Levelling up in action.
The ‘Network North’ money for cancelling HS2 used for improving roads in the northern town of….
London
No it isn’t a spoof. It’s for real. The government actually released this today
Nah, be honest… you made that to see how far we believe they will go?
Remember Sunak promised to redirect funds to richer seats in the South when he stood and failed to become leader of his party. So it’s almost believable… but… no… the NETWORK NORTH logo is just a step too far into unbelievable parody… no?
How could anyone who wasn’t totally detached from reality have that placed in front of them and sign it off?
You’re balls deep into taking the ****ing piss territory by this point
I’m guessing they’ve (correctly) assumed that those ‘red wall’ seats they won last time around are already long gone, so it’s shore up the South East base.
It’s not even like that many people in London actually vote for them
Why the surprise? I pointed out at the time of the HS2 cut announcement that some of the money was to be allocated to projects in the South.
This is trolling territory now.
Clearly (again) none of that money went into paying a graphic designer. Another 4pm on a Friday get the work experience kid to do it job.
Surely that Network North logo is below even the work experience kid?
Why does everything have to be in CAPITAL LETTERS?
Seems odd they'd leave the JCB logo in OH NO IT DOESN'T
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/27/hmrc-investigating-tax-affairs-of-one-of-tory-party-largest-donors-anthony-bamford
"But it’s incredible to think a Tory minister thought it was a good idea to scrap railway lines to the north and use the cash to fix potholes in London and then show off about it."
Rishi Sunak has previous when it comes to showing off with pride when it comes to redirecting wealth in favour of the wealthy.
Here he is proudly boasting how he has redirected money intended for deprived urban areas to mega-affluent Royal Tonbridge Wells
No it isn’t a spoof. It’s for real. The government actually released this today
It's entirely predictable. BUT WHY WOULD YOU ADMIT IT WAS HS2 MONEY?
Honestly, you get the sense that no-one at the top of the party has any political acumen.
Unless they think robbing the north to fix up the south is a net positive for them, because they've given up entirely on the red wall seats and are focusing absolutely everything on their core southern vote, who will like the idea of that.
Another 4pm on a Friday get the work experience kid to do it job.
Nah it was the normal staff after a really, really good xmas party. Shortly after photocopying their arses they booted up the computers and did some prank posters.
because they’ve given up entirely on the red wall seats and are focusing absolutely everything on their core southern vote, who will like the idea of that.
London is not the Tories's core southern vote. In fact it has the greatest concentration of Labour MPs anywhere in the UK.
Out of 73 London MPs only 20 are Tory. And if the current polls were replicated in the next general election there would be a real possibility that the Tories would lose every single seat in London.
I have no idea why they want to spend the money on potholes in London. Other than many Tory MPs live in London and maybe they get rattled every time there ministerial cars hit potholes.
One of the things which struck me when I did the coast-to-coast a few years back was how few portholes there were in the roads, compared to down south. And trees, and hedges, and people. Just grass, sheep, and stonewalls, iirc.
If they carry on in their usual style then that 235 mil will be spent in very specific London areas. The 20 with Tory MPs. The rest will be getting the same as the North. Nothing!
Kensington and Chelsea should be pot-hole free. Tower Hamlets, not so much
I’m still genuinely gobsmacked that they’ve actually put that out today.
I loved the comment from Transport Secretary Mark Harper
In response to the backlash, Transport Secretary Mark Harper posted his own comment, saying it was "great that people are talking about our Network North plan".
Clearly believing the nonsense that there’s no such thing as bad publicity
Mark… there really is, you dimwit
Turns out this ‘Network North’ initiative is bizarrely nationwide…
However it’s not London unless you consider how the re-appropriation of Euston £££ is for ‘everywhere else’ that fails to benefit from the transport investment London gets.
That initiative is a shit show. No clue how London can possibly benefit given paragraph 5.
Who's about to open a pothole repair company, is my immediate thoughts. No experience needed, and where it's urgent, normal procurement rules won't apply. Should be able to clear about £70M for yourself if you follow protocol.
Sorry, not for yourself, for your trust fund I meant.
Your are no doubt right there. Patch up the potholes, give it a another winter at most and they will have reappeared so you can patch them up again building up your trust fund nicely.
Well, got into a heated debate with my sister over the Tories.
Immigrants get to see GP’s and dentists first apparently, they get priority. I don’t doubt immigrants might be given a general health check on arrival for TB etc etc but that’s not the same as walking into a surgery and having a vip lane straight to a GP’s door. I don’t know why I bother though, it’s not about appointments really, it’s about race/ colour.
What did amuse me though? My sister chats to a fellow dog walker on their walks but recently politics came up. My sister made it clear what she thought about immigrants and since then this guy with the dog won’t talk to her anymore. Totally blanks her.
What is it do you think that makes your sister have racist opinions? What triggered such a mode of thought in her, considering you seem to have opposing attitudes?
If they carry on in their usual style then that 235 mil will be spent in very specific London areas. The 20 with Tory MPs. The rest will be getting the same as the North. Nothing!
Kensington and Chelsea should be pot-hole free. Tower Hamlets, not so much
I'd say you're spot-on. This is after all the typical pattern for spending in London. We're still seeing the negative legacy of the London Olympics, where public money was diverted to covering the spiralling costs of the sports facilities and 'redevelopment'. Roads to nowhere built to benefit Westfield shopping centre, whilst long-needed improvement projects for social housing were scrapped. Right now, billions is being spent on removing unsafe cladding from any buildings; cladding that is unsafe because cost cutting led to the wrong materials being used. And we all know where that led. And that was in Kensington and Chelsea. This isn't about any mythical north/south divide, but much more to do with class and economic power. You will find equal examples of spending disparity in places like Wilmslow in Cheshire, compared to say Toxteth or Cumbernauld. The tories always find money to win votes.
What is it do you think that makes your sister have racist opinions? What triggered such a mode of thought in her, considering you seem to have opposing attitudes?
That's a really good question.
She's older than me, I'm 55, she's in her late 60's. She worked with eastern Europeans for a while years ago, she refers to them as "Russians" though they were obviously not. Though I think her bias predates that period of her life.
She, as do I, live in an area of Kent that until the late 90's you pretty much never heard a foreign accent or even saw a black person... Though people of Asian heritage were certainly here.
What I can say for certain is that she and her husband read the Daily Mail and have done for years.
So... I think she is a product of the right wing media, almost total lack of interaction with those from other cultures and pure irrational racism.
Rather than blame the Tories for the state of the NHS for instance (she's always complaining about that, she's in her late 60's and has a fair few health issues) because she can't get a quick appointment with a GP or a dentist "due to immigrants having priority."
You can't reason with her, she goes full on Daily Mail and throws out generic "facts" that she can't back up at all when pressed or challenged.
So… I think she is a product of the right wing media, almost total lack of interaction with those from other cultures and pure irrational racism.
Yes, a typical case, sadly. For me, the key is in socialisation. A lack of which can be the basis for irrational fear. And of course we know about the right-wing press being only too happy to stoke those fires. It's so sad. But then it's exacerbated by people's insecurity; we've seen on this very thread, how a simple comment on someone's lack of insight can lead to an explosion of defensiveness and an attack on those they perceive to be some kind of 'threat'. It's often very hard, but proving to someone they have nothing to actually fear, can help to change their minds. But for me, this can be achieved through solidarity with others, to show people that yes, you can interact and have relationships with others, and they can be positive. I feel sorry for your sister, and people like her, I genuinely do. Because they are missing out on so much in their lives. Very sad.
because she can’t get a quick appointment with a GP or a dentist “due to immigrants having priority.”
Tell her to put on a foreign accent the next she wants a GP or dental appointment.
It's tough being British in Britain, you need to get cunning.
Tell her to put on a foreign accent the next she wants to a GP or dental appointment.
It’s tough being British in Britain, you need to get cunning.
Yeah, that's about the level of logic going on in her mind.
It's sad in all honesty.
The phrase 'Thick as Mince' is banded around a lot on this forum, generally directed at Rishi's cabinet. Sometimes I feel its not actually deserved as the MP in question is clearly not thick, just a grasping opportunist for instance like Gove.
Then on Today this morning enters stage left Victoria Atkins the Health Secretary.
It was so painful Amol basically just gave up trying to get any meaningful words out of her and treated her as you would a child.
Incredible.
What is it do you think that makes your sister have racist opinions? What triggered such a mode of thought in her, considering you seem to have opposing attitudes?
I have a similar problem and although my sister is not out and out racist she is gullible enough to be taken in by Daily Mail, Tory party and the like. Simply down to genetics - I was lucky enough to be born with a high level of intelligence and she really wasn't!
Maybe intelligence is the wrong word but it may be required to be able to (and have a desire to) want to question what you are being told but then ultimately it may be because she doesn't care and is happy enough to go along with it being the fault of immigrants. My mother who was more reasoned years ago has also fallen for the immigration BS.
Simply down to genetics – I was lucky enough to be born with a high level of intelligence and she really wasn’t!
Plenty of very highly intelligent people who are very racist. Nobody is ever born racist, or becomes racist because they're of lower intelligence. Racism is the product of their experiences and influences in life. Many are xenophobic because of bad experiences/trauma they've suffered in life. And many go along with groupthink because they find comfort in that 'community'. Nothing to do with 'genetics'. And you might want to have a think about your own perceived level of intelligence. It's an assumption that has been the undoing of many arrogant people.
Nobody is ever born racist
“No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite”
- Nelson Mandela.
Plenty of very highly intelligent people who are very racist. Nobody is ever born racist, or becomes racist because they’re of lower intelligence.
I said she wasn't actually racist but buys the BS about immigration (which admittedly has a very racist element in it) but it is more acceptance of the bullshit and ignorance around the positives/negatives of immigration. A level of intelligence is required to be able to question it, think about it, look at numbers, real impact etc,.
The differing levels of intelligence between us are totally genetic.
And you might want to have a think about your own perceived level of intelligence.
No need, it is not perceived, it is measured and measures can be used comparatively where my level of intelligence is high. It is that matter of fact to me because I am also autistic!
I don't think it's a lack of intelligence - it's a lack of critical thinking that isn't taught in schools.
People are outraged at things that are perfectly reasonable to be outraged at. The issue is that the outrageous things are either entirely fictitious or grossly distorted. As Prince John points out it's not really an issue of intelligence but more a lack of employing intelligence in forming views. And in happens in all directions.
The Mash on form today
Sunak dreading in-laws' questions about when he will achieve something with his life
The differing levels of intelligence between us are totally genetic.
I don't think you understand genetics.
No need, it is not perceived, it is measured and measures can be used comparatively where my level of intelligence is high. It is that matter of fact to me because I am also autistic!
It can be quite dangerous to overestimate your own intelligence. And really not a wise move to make such proclamations on the internet.
I don’t think it’s a lack of intelligence – it’s a lack of critical thinking that isn’t taught in schools.
Totally. Successive generations grow up without such learning, and therefore lack shared insight and awareness. Points to the many significant flaws in our education system.
It’s almost as if they just pulled an arbitrary figure out of the air and scrawled it down on the back of a fag packet?
Their paymasters will have informed them that they need imported labour and they have no intention of paying them anywhere near that amount
They really are utter morons, aren’t they?