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The dire negative consequences of Reaganomics was to come much later, but it did indisputably result in growth.
No it did not do so "indisputably". The question of whether it was just the cycle of economy vs the republicans policies is still a highly debated area and one without a easy answer.
Edit: Gordon Brown’s mantra “no return to boom and bust” was in reference to the Tories boom and bust cycles.
Again no. He was referring to a general pattern beyond the UK and tories. He was wrong but it was a common idea for the centrist ideologues that they had solved everything and now it would all be happy. See Fukuyama and the end of history for a particularly nutty take on the idea.
Ah the unelected Oligarch,gotta like a bit of Monbiot.
Surely if the Truss debacle taught us anything it is that it doesn’t matter how clever your economic theory is or how much you believe in it. If the markets don’t like it (and they don’t like defecit spending) then you are stuffed.
Not at all - simply put the markets can be controlled by government / BoE - especially the bond markets. Let's not confuse primary and secondary markets here either.
Government sets the price for a start.
Just because governments claim they don't tinker doesn't mean they can't like a whole host of other neoliberal 'hands-offs.'
BoE simply bought up 65Bn worth of bonds. A normal process.
Remember, all this stuff is political choice. We have been conditioned to accept it works one way when it could simply work another. And very much could work for the larger part of society. The spanner in the works was simply selling off the state to make it appear we were getting wealthy. This drives the illusion.
Q/E shows us the around the houses approach of the pretence that governments don't fund spending. They clearly do. The Tories will stop at nothing the make it appear the private sector funds the state.
A few years ago even the most moderate voter would probably accept trickle-down as an economic benefit - now look!
We absolutely shouldn't let markets dictate policy - With the Truss situation if the roles were reversed and we were trying to make progressive spending - and the markets reacted the same - and then the government backtracked - would thay be democratic or equitable?
We shouldn't be shooting for calming the neoliberal structure - it should be dismantled and replaced where it doesn't serve us.
Bill Mitchell:
So not a case of the bond markets “beating up” MMT, but rather a case of the currency issing capacity of the government to control yields if it so chooses, a core MMT proposition.
The Bank of England’s bond purchases also caught the short selling vultures who, knowing the pension funds were in trouble and needed to liquidate quickly, were speculating that bond prices would fall even further and their short selling positions would generate profits.
Their speculative hope is that the on-going panic and liquidation of bond holdings of the pension funds to get cash drives the spot price of the bonds in the secondary market down so that they could meet their short sale contracts by buying a price below the initial price agreed in the contract.
The Bank of England squeezed those speculators and forced them to quickly cover their exposures which further drove up bond prices and drove down yields.
One of the related problems is that pension funds are managed according to the greed principle rather than to exclusively ensure liabilities can be met.
The latter goal is relatively simple – just invest in risk-free assets that deliver a known principle at a known maturity.
So if you need $30 billion in 20 years time, the easiest way to guarantee you will have it is to buy a 20-year bond that has a face value of $30 billion.
Then whatever happens to bond prices in the secondary market is irrelevant – the pension fund just cashes in the bond in 20-years and gets the required cash.
But pension fund managers get greedy (probably because they devise salary packages that benefit from higher returns) and so they use these interest-rate swap arrangements that allow them to use the fund’ cash to pursue returns in more risky assets – like shares.
The financial market players who devise all these tricky and dangerous derivative products then prey on the greed of the pension fund managers to flog them products that seemingly will deliver massive returns.
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=50528
Full article
Typo. 65Bn was ear-marked.
(should be purchased up to 65bn worth of bonds. Don't think they made that target in the end. Due to Q/T.)
Oh, excellent. Northern levelling up rail is going to be cancelled. But it doesn't really matter because I thought all we were getting was buses anyway. As long as the buses aren't electric.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63507630
Level the North
Strong three word slogan.
With the Truss situation if the roles were reversed and we were trying to make progressive spending – and the markets reacted the same – and then the government backtracked – would thay be democratic or equitable?
No, but I suspect it would happen. It would appear that no government can survive if they lose the confidence of the markets. Not saying that’s a good thing, but it does seem to be the case. Economic theories are great until they crash into political realities.
I don’t have anything against MMT by the way. I view it a bit like quantum mechanics. Quite complicated, explains things that can’t be explained by other theories, but doesn’t explain everything.
Oh, excellent. Northern levelling up rail is going to be cancelled. But it doesn’t really matter because I thought all we were getting was buses anyway. As long as the buses aren’t electric.
I don't think anyone actually expected it to get built though did they?
No. No one that’s been paying attention. One of the reasons Tory support in North of England seats they gained in 2019 has fallen away. You have to have your head in a bag to still think that Northern infrastructure is really a priority for them. Level the North.
Again no. He was referring to a general pattern beyond the UK and tories.
So no short-lived booms occurred under Reginald Maudling, Anthony Barber, and Nigel Lawson, tenures as Tory Chancellors of the Exchequer following their tax cuts, which then resulted in the economy going bust?
Only a Tory would claim that the UK economy has ever experienced a boom under a Tory government?
When I use terms such as "indisputably" I am of course expressing my personal opinion. For example it is an indisputable fact that the UK has just experienced a novel coronavirus pandemic. However some people would dispute that, including on here.
The last week in Britain demonstrates key MMT propositions
But what about Zimbabwe (etc)? 😀
ohh are we sending people there now 🙂
The government has just come out and said that they’re definitely not scrapping the nuclear energy programme. It is just ‘under review’
So they’re definitely scrapping the nuclear energy programmer then
It’s a good job we’ve a cheap and plentiful supply of gas so that nuclear power wouldn’t have been required anyway
Oh…
"It’s a good job we’ve a cheap and plentiful supply of gas"
Plenty of hot air.
I see Cruella is now getting in on the Cosplay and is now travelling about in a military helicopter. Maybe she’ll get a gunship for sinking small boats in the channel?
https://twitter.com/benkentish/status/1588201073138860032?s=46&t=eZJ5v0eZrcZvbhvMWIHxAA
The BBC@
"However, it would be difficult to axe Sizewell C as it was a manifesto pledge in 2019"
Oh how sweet
Are they shooting her videos ready for the next leadership thing next month 🙂
How far north is Sizewell C is the real question ?
Nowt For North
What happened with moving the lords up there to the Northern powerhouse.
Levelling up the north now appears to be about lobbing a few grand at Blackpool illuminations.
You can’t have any infrastructure investment but ooooooooo look at all the sparkly lights
**** off!
You have to have your head in a bag to still think that Northern infrastructure is really a priority for them.
You had to have your head in a bag to believe the Tories would spend money on anyone who needs it at all. People really expected them to invest in deprived areas? Seriously?
You don't reckon that the residents of Royal Tunbridge Wells need a helping hand?
Thanks for posting that Ernie. Local TV up here should show that come an election. Assuming he’s still PM then.
That clip was widely broadcast and reported on when it first emerged.
Will certainly be used agsinst him - again - with, hopefully, more impact than last time.q
I was going to put “reposting”. Worth sharing and resharing.
What happened with moving the lords up there to the Northern powerhouse.
They probably saw the Yes Prime Minister clip about the North and all decided against it...
Sunak's 'restoring integrity' project continues apace 😂
https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-was-told-of-bullying-claims-against-gavin-williamson-days-before-hiring-him-12739618
Restoring integrity?
Does anyone know the collective total for the present cabinet for how many times they’ve previously been sacked from cabinet roles?
Because it looks like a revolving door
You had to have your head in a bag to believe the Tories would spend money on anyone who needs it at all. People really expected them to invest in deprived areas? Seriously?
The depressing bit is, folk - certainly here in red-wall heartland - were willing to give them a chance back in 2019.
Short memory syndrome plus a complete inability to understand that the Tories always mismanage the economy.
I never once for a second thought levelling up would translate to anything other than a poster.
The Tories absolutely know what they're doing with the immigration debate currently. We're back to 2016, and ignoring the economics again.
Short memory syndrome plus a complete inability to understand that the Tories always mismanage the economy.
I never once for a second thought levelling up would translate to anything other than a poster.
More longer term memory as they need to go back 40 years to when it all started and now have the tories promising to fix what they started/caused. Also 2019 was very different as many wanted Brexit "done" as a priority and now it has been done and the benefits gained I can't see as many people falling for the tories in 2 years time.
More longer term memory as they need to go back 40 years to when it all started and now have the tories promising to fix what they started/caused.
Very very true but some people felt they did okay out of the last few years with asset accumulation etc. That takes some rewiring.
Rolling news certainly removes topics from your head - after a couple of weeks. It's a pet hate of mine to see the topic of the day flare up and then be replaced as though the issue has been resolved.
I think we Brits have got used to very low standards of life, and what better actually means.
I genuinely don't think things are going back to pre-covid ways of society -we are in a managed decline now.
It's unfortunate that arguments about NHS and cost have simply not been resolved and we're not all on the same page.
It's now all about saving money when we should actually be flowing cash into all the damaged areas of the economy.
It looks like we might get a reprieve next year from some metrics like inflation and interest rates but the bigger issues of unemployment, recession and consumer confidence are like a coiled spring.
You would think it be obvious by now that doing things on a shoestring with no long term goals yields terrible results for society.
"This is in fact the future planning committee not the war committee."
In The Loop has so many good lines.
He can’t be that bad, he’s giving us proles an extra bank holiday next year.
The Williamson appointment is just another own goal
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1588960764702134273?t=tEVMnDLNBED20myFwgh2OA&s=19
On top of the Braverman thing which in light of the terror attack last week looks even worse
https://twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1589181553728446464?t=KnRenF0VNH2iBUS-HeCXmQ&s=19
It’s now all about saving money when we should actually be flowing cash into all the damaged areas of the economy
They are blindly wedded to an ideology which not just ignores, but demonises inconvenient truths. They’re still trying to maintain Brexit isn’t a disaster FFS!
As we enter a long recession, they’re going to pour petrol on the fire of the cost of living crisis by slashing public spending. They’re doing this because that’s just what they do. They’re ideologically bankrupt. It’s the only answer they have for anything. More cuts, then some more cuts on top of that.
It’s going to be a grim winter and their usual ‘blame it all on the immigrants and the woke lefties’ is not going to cover up the shitshow to come
their usual ‘blame it all on the immigrants and the woke lefties’ is not going to cover up the shitshow to come
Especially if Labour keep maintaining that the Tories haven't got a firm grip on illegal immigrants.
https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/rachel-reeves-labour-chancellor-deportations-b2196077.html
Labour's Rachel Reeves has called for the Tories to “get a grip” of the immigration system and “ensure that people who have not got a right to be here are sent home.”
Speaking to Sky News, the shadow chancellor criticised “12 years of Tory failure,” and said illegal immigration has risen “under their watch.”
Ms Reeves said: “The problem is the government are not deporting people today, even when their claims have failed.
Presumably the Labour Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer believes that all these illegal immigrants that the present Tory government is failing to deport represents a burden on British taxpayers.
So we can all look forward to the next Labour government deporting these illegal immigrants and getting them "sent home", according Rachel Reeves.
Presumably the Labour Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer believes that all these illegal immigrants that the present Tory government is failing to deport represents a burden on British taxpayers.So we can all look forward to the next Labour government deporting these illegal immigrants and getting them “sent home”, according Rachel Reeves.
They (Labour) are playing to the same Daily Mail brigade that the Tories are desperate to pander to, it's the Tories' central voting base. Lose [b]those[/b] to Labour and you're absolutely screwed!
It's also the absolute guaranteed area you end up in when all else has failed, the country is falling to bits around you and you can point at The Immigrants and tell everyone it's all their fault.
I do wonder how the "take back control" lot are viewing the fact that immigration has risen post-Brexit and it's also more difficult to "send them back" cos we've ditched that pesky Dublin Regulation in the name of "control".
Morons. Absolute ****ing morons.
It would be wrong to believe that it is a recent post-referendum phenomenon with regards to Labour though.
Another previous Labour Shadow Chancellor was arguing more than a year before the EU membership referendum that voting Labour was the way to control immigration, presumably the Tories couldn't be entirely trusted on that issue.
The Labour Party even produced an official coffee mug with the words "Controls on Immigration..... I'm voting Labour" written on them.
https://www.channel4.com/news/labour-mug-immigration-controls
Labour's shadow chancellor has said that although he has not yet purchased the merchandise, he still wants it “for his campaign office”.
Speaking to Sky News, he added: “There’s got to be tough controls on immigration, and you’ve got to know the people who come here contribute before they get any benefits.
That must play very well to those who want to claim that immigrants just want to come to the UK to scrounge benefits rather than to contribute.
And that is from a former very senior Labour politician. Although to be fair apart from the attacks on the Tories for being soft or incompetent on immigration he and Rachel Reeves both have another big thing in common - they are both on the hard right of the Labour Party, so there is very little to distinguish them from actual Tories.
Not all Labour politicians are like that mind. Many were disgusted by the official Labour coffee mugs for bigots
I see that the usual suspects have been sent out to defend 'Sir' Gavin Williamson. According to Oliver Dowden, they were sent 'in the heat of the moment' so thats all ok then. Though this apparently covers a period of a few weeks, so he must spend his time permanently heated. He really is a tragic and spiteful little man.
So much for this supposed integrity.
Twice-sacked Frank Spencer was always a ridiculous appointment, but if you've read his texts, can you imagine any other situation where you'd still be in a job after sending those threatening and abusive messages to a colleague? All on the basis of a self-important hissy fit.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1589193166384570374?s=20&t=Z86MK_NbzHYDblouQpsyaA
@binners - you heartless git, Gavin's got a poorly pooch and you just don't care🙃
I think we should call the RSPCA and request an intervention. That poor dog probably has to live with that prick
Saw a vid of Sunak side by side with Will from Inbetweeners. Rather chortlesome.
As we enter a long recession, they’re going to pour petrol on the fire of the cost of living crisis by slashing public spending. They’re doing this because that’s just what they do. They’re ideologically bankrupt. It’s the only answer they have for anything. More cuts, then some more cuts on top of that.
The Tories built their entire financial 'model' around the markets and the private sector creating growth and employment - which then apparently funds the state.
This is collapsing before their very eyes and they don't have an answer.
Whether it's pure ignorance or deliberate, it's the wrong technical and ethical direction.
Tory Brexit is only a sideshow in this context, that clearly makes matters worse.
As usual economic downturns are built out of lots of poor economic thinking.
Central banks raising interest rates? Government has the power to overrule them...
It all comes back to the state.
So much for this supposed integrity.
He never had any,remember Gav the blackmailer,the whip and the book pic.
Totally incompetent handling of the exams but rewarded with a title and that’s ignoring the leaks that cost him his defence post.
I can’t believe talent pool is so shallow they have to recycle regardless.
The Tories built their entire financial ‘model’ around the markets and the private sector creating growth and employment – which then apparently funds the state.
This is collapsing before their very eyes and they don’t have an answer.
Whether it’s pure ignorance or deliberate, it’s the wrong technical and ethical direction.
Tory Brexit is only a sideshow in this context, that clearly makes matters worse.
As usual economic downturns are built out of lots of poor economic thinking.
Central banks raising interest rates? Government has the power to overrule them…
It all comes back to the state.
Ideology pure & simple - which pretty much describes the majority of their MP's...
I can’t believe talent pool is so shallow they have to recycle regardless.
I beleive there are two issues
1) - anyone sensible on the tory benches is hiding from the shitshow
2) yes there is a serious lack of talent right across UK politics. Look at Sturgeon - she appears to be a real outstanding politician. a generation or two ago she would have just been another competent politician.
Also Sunak had to make a deal with the ERG loons so they didn't stand someone against him. Thats why Braverman got a post
2) yes there is a serious lack of talent right across UK politics. Look at Sturgeon – she appears to be a real outstanding politician. a generation or two ago she would have just been another competent politician.
As my youngest said, a generation or two ago car manuals told you how to adjust the valves, now they tell you to not drink the battery acid...
Compared to her peers she IS an outstanding politician - and that's what counts.
At the Downing Street lobby briefing the prime minister’s spokesperson said Rishi Sunak retains “full confidence” in Gavin Williamson.
How long do we give Williamson? I'll start the bidding at 3 days
I'm trying to understand how someone who only decided a few days ago that he could be bothered going to COP27 (possibly after seeing that Boris was going...?) is now standing on stage urging everyone to come together in clean energy growth while back home, he's refusing to allow onshore wind, climate protesters are being peeled off buildings and put in jail and there's absolutely no plan to assist with home insulation, no (or ineffective) windfall tax on the energy companies...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63536770
Oh, that'd be because big oil funds him, silly me
https://twitter.com/premnsikka/status/1586798139905802244?s=20&t=LXa0DWsY61P9THGV2nbuOg
How long do we give Williamson? I’ll start the bidding at 3 days
That all depends on what he has on Rishi
Him walking in on BJ getting a BJ kept him in a job long after anyone else would have been sacked and then got a ‘Sir’ put in front of his name
The little shitweasel must be really really good at digging dirt on people, even if he’s completely useless at everything else, so no doubt he knows about some dodgy offshore bank accounts or something
What keeps coming up is that despite him being a cabinet member (without portfolio) nobody seems to have the faintest idea why. He’s just been appointed for no particular reason. That suggests that Rishi is keeping him sweet just like Boris did to prevent him spilling the beans about something
Sunak bounce/honeymoon over already?
https://twitter.com/redfieldwilton/status/1589663977868595202?s=21
I thought it would last for about two weeks past the (don’t call it a) budget announcement, when the details have been dug out following it. That it’s not last even that long is surprising. Partly down to his “choice” for Home Secretary, and partly down to… these two clowns…?
https://twitter.com/andyburnhamgm/status/1589372833184239616?s=21
So why was sunak rushed out of one of the cop27 meetings today?
Was Matt Hancock about to eat a kangaroo’s bollock and he didn’t want to miss it?
Looking at that Andy Burnham post makes a fair point. You’d be hard pushed to find a minister who presided over such a catastrophic cluster-**** as Frank Spencer as Education secretary. Anyone with school age kids during covid can testify to his utter and complete incompetence
To bring him back when he’d already been put out to pasture with his shiny new title to keep his ego happy is absolutely inexplicable
There’s more stuff coming out, somewhat unsurprisingly. He really is a vile little man
https://twitter.com/johnjcrace/status/1589715414430674944?s=46&t=6LsFQHWFE9hQ02uKWrCXrw
Sunak bounce/honeymoon over already?
I just can't see him being that popular overall. I don't think a large chunk of public want to see an extremely wealthy chap telling them it's going to be tough. Simple one really
He's a steady set of hands but that gets him out of nothing.
I think the direction will now depend on what the real economy does. Things start to tank and Sunak will be ousted.
I'm guessing BoE are preying that inflation starts to turn of its own accord, just in time.
there is a serious lack of talent right across UK politics.
There must be hundreds of reasons for this but it could be improved quite easily by detaching the MP vote from the party vote and also only allowing an MP to be an MP for 5 years which a mid term vote to ensure people still want them as their MP. I am sure loads of people who vote for a particular MP don't even want that MP but because they are Tory, for example, they will vote for them anyway.
I must say I am surprised by recent events. Braverman and Williamson and the U turn on cop27
I thought Sunak was smarter than that. Is he more politically naive than I realised? Is it arrogance? Or is it he had to make deals with the ERG loons ie accept Braverman or we stand someone against you? He must have known what a nasty man and a liability Williamson is.
Its a very rapid unfolding disaster for a new PM. I really thought Sunak would at least be competent instead he is giving labour plenty of ammo and looks miles out of his depth
accept Braverman or we stand someone against you?
Do you really honestly believe there is any possibility of that actually happening? And I don't mean the possibility of a threat but the possibility of the Tories yet again changing their leader midterm?
There has been three different UK Prime Ministers in the last three months, with absolutely devastating consequences for the Tory Party.
The previous Prime Ministers two were removed from office because Tory MPs turned against them, do you honestly believe that might be any stomach left among Tory MPs to turn against their latest leader?
Especially when they are so terrified of growing calls for an early general election, which if held right now would in all likelihood result in the worse result for the Tories in a hundred years, if not two hundred?
It has been a very long time since any Tory leader has been in a more secure position than Rishi Sunak is in today. Short of getting it caught cottaging on Clapham Common I can't imagine what Sunak would have to do to get Tory MPs to turn against him.
And why did you have so much confidence in his competence - was it his time as Johnson's Chancellor? He has only been a Cabinet Minister for two years, a remarkably short time for a Prime Minister. Or was it the image which he spends so much time and money cultivating?
I presume he meant that the ERG stayed neutral as a group, letting Sunak through, in the last leadership run off. If they'd all got behind Johnson, Sunak might not be PM now.
But my view is that the Conservatives will change leader if they need to. And they may well feel they need to, if Sunak looks to be leading them towards a catastrophic general election result. For all the talk of "loyalty", the Tories are a dab hand at taking out a leader, if they feel they have to.
Anyway, Sunak is already struggling, way before I expected him to be. I overestimated him, for sure. I didn't overestimate Truss though... and perhaps he'd be doing better if he'd replaced Johnson instead of her... but that we'll never know. Well done Conservative MPs and members for putting such a big easily avoided hole in the hull of their party. Slow hand clap there for letting Truss have a go at being PM.
Kelvin gets what I mean. Its pretty clear there was al sorts of deals going on. I agree he is fairly safe from challenge now he is in
He just seemed basically intelligent and competent unlike his two previous predecessors but he is actually blundering about as badly as Truss. Im just suprised. Maybe I shouldn't have been given his lack of political experience but to make basic blunders shows a lack of competence
On Wuilliamson he is now dithering - not a good look in a politician.
What is it that Williamson is supposed to be doing in his government role anyway? What's his brief?
They have put a list out today
I at least thought Sunak was smart enough to get good advice and to surround himself with more than "yes" men / women unlike his predecessors
The speed at which its all falling apart around him is unexpected to me
What is it that Williamson is supposed to be doing in his government role anyway? What’s his brief?
Various people around Sunak, including a number of government ministers have been asked this question over the last few days. Not one of them had an answer.
It looks like every single person in cabinet is just there to keep some faction or other happy. Mainly the ERG headbangers.
Sunak will have no more luck getting anything done than his predecessors because the party is ungovernable and is now simply a collection of warring factions who despise each other.
This will become glaringly obvious when he attempts to get his Autumn statement though parliament and its all too hardline for the one nation lot, while the ERG loons will accuse him of being Jeremy Corbyn
What is it that Williamson is supposed to be doing in his government role anyway? What’s his brief?
Seems to be his job was being an unofficial whip bullying everyone into submission or, alternately, just a bribe to him for knowing where all the bodies were buried.
So less a government role than a tory party one.
The Cabinet Office has finally published the list of Sir Gavin Williamson’s ministerial responsibilities (or the portfolio for the minister without portfolio), and it appears that he will be overseeing all government spin doctors. That is because he has responsibility for the Government Communications Service.
He is also responsible for: the GREAT campaign, the Geospatial Commission, the Office of Government Property, the Government Property Agency, the Places for Growth strategy and the Conflict, Stability and Security Fund (CSSF).
The Cabinet Office also says Williamson will be responsible for supporting the Oliver Dowden, the chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster, “on driving the delivery of [the] government’s priorities”.
from the grauniad
I think a part of my surprise at the speed at which things are unraveling is that I didn't believe the tories would install another incompetent but Sunak has already been exposed as incompetent
He just seemed basically intelligent and competent....
Well I never thought I would ever hear TJ describe a Tory politician in those terms!!
No doubt he is basically intelligent although there isn't anything to judge his competence on imo. Yes he wears expensive suits and shoes but he has only been an MP for 7 years and a cabinet minister for 2, he wasn't even particularly good at winning a party leadership election, so not really much to go on.
His only real cause for concern now, in terms of his political ambitions, is not pissing off voters - he needn't worry looking over his shoulder to keep an eye on the PCP.
If he screws up and really pisses off voters, which is very much more than likely imo, it won't be because he lacks intelligence but that he simply lacks any connection or understanding of ordinary working people, something which in contrast Johnson had to a degree a talent for despite being an Eton educated Tory.
According to Sunak:
‘I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper class, I have friends who are working class… Well, not working class.’
‘I am very lucky to have been at these places, it does put me in an elite in society.'
Any incompetence on the part of Sunak won't be due to a lack of basic intelligence imo but due to a lack of basic understanding. Including that just because you believe you are right, eg Braverman should be Home Secretary, it doesn't mean that you should necessarily pursue something. The opinions of others who might not agree matters.
Arrogance and self-belief in the face of widespread opposition is something which is drummed in and can be very hard to shake off, it comes with the territory of being an ambitious Tory. It has spectacularly infected the likes of Kwasi Kwarteng, Liz Truss, and indeed Margret Thatcher. But it is not a sign of a lack of basic intelligence.
Seems to be his job was being an unofficial whip bullying everyone into submission or, alternately, just a bribe to him for knowing where all the bodies were buried.
Its got to be the latter . The bloke doesn't look like he could bully his way out of a wet paper bag !
Ernie - once again- there are many forms of intelligence and "Arrogance and self-belief in the face of widespread opposition" shows a lack of some aspects of it. Truss for example was spectacularly dim in this and many other regards. I wouldn't put Thatcher in that group BTW. She did allow dissenting voices and knew the value of them
I thought Sunak different to Truss and Johnson which is why I didn't want him as leader because I thought him more Like Thatcher but he turns out to be like Truss.
Any incompetence on the part of Sunak won’t be due to a lack of basic intelligence imo but due to a lack of basic understanding
We’re about to witness this in spades with the Autumn statement.
I don’t think Sunak, like those around him, has the remotest understanding of how hard life is for a lot of people already, before we even get into the winter
And because with his private education and private healthcare and ridiculously privileged lifestyle, he hasn’t a clue how threadbare our public services are.
He’s going to slash billions off public services that are already on their knees and give massive real terms pay cuts to millions of people already really struggling
He’ll do this because he’s a prisoner of an ideology which has only one answer to everything. More cuts. He’s so dislocated from reality (like most Tories) that he has absolutely no idea of the real world impact on peoples lives.
On channel 4 news now, his former deputy when he was chief whip is spilling the beans on what a truly nasty little shit Gavin Williamson is
Character traits he apparently used very effectively to smooth Sunaks path to number ten
That’ll be the much trumpeted ‘integrity’ then
On channel 4 news now, his former deputy when he was chief whip is spilling the beans on what a truly nasty little shit Gavin Williamson is
He cant last much longer. Everyone he has stamped on in the past are seeing an opportunity to return the favour with interest.
Maybe he's just there to try to rein in some of the excesses of noshing, tooting, in office trickle down, bunging, tugging, boozing, humping, flipping, tanking. Although a lot of Tories are about to lose their seats at the next GE, it does seem like they've had a lot of fun and they'll get lovely pensions.
Ernie, for someone who spends so much time commentating on political threads, you seem to miss (or ignore) some pretty basic things about how politics works (and in particular the current Tory party)
Including that just because you believe you are right, eg Braverman should be Home Secretary,
Sunak didn't choose Nutella, she was foisted on him by the extreme right of the party in return for him being anointed as the leader. Many on this thread have said it, and it's widely reported in the press.
sunak is not incompetent nor does he lack intelligence.
He is definitely politically naive and that will damage him more than anything else.
binners
Full Member
On channel 4 news now, his former deputy when he was chief whip is spilling the beans on what a truly nasty little shit Gavin Williamson isCharacter traits he apparently used very effectively to smooth Sunaks path to number ten
That’ll be the much trumpeted ‘integrity’ then
Just watched that. I was actually pretty shocked*. The whole Tory party is totally rotten to the core. Being in power so long has absolutely rotted it from within.
* I refuse to let myself become normalised to the political reality of recent years.
Frank- its all a bit semantics but his first two weeks as PM clearly shows a lack of competence
Just watched that. I was actually pretty shocked*. The whole Tory party is totally rotten to the core. Being in power so long has absolutely rotted it from within
Indeed.
Can you imagine any organisation other than the modern Tory party where a nasty, tragic little inadequate like Gavin Williamson could bully his way to the top and effectively make himself unsackable?
In absolutely any other ‘job’, if you carried on like he has, you’d be out on your ear in no time, never mind being constantly promoted. I can’t think of anywhere else where constantly abusing and threatening people would not just be tolerated, but repeatedly rewarded.
He’s the living embodiment of the party he’s part of. A vile, toxic little bully, constantly punching down
Tj - yes, semantics but...he's not incompetent but is politically naive and, IMO, his performance to date vindicates that.
Moving on from that...he hasn't got off to a strong start and tory reaction to next week's Autumn Statement will be telling - as will how the faithful take to the agreement he's working on with Macron to address the cross channel migrants issue.
I wonder what attack line Labour will use at PMQs tomorrow?
Id say his performance so far is incompetent 🙂 Dithering over Williamson. " I want to wait for the outcome of the inquiry but I may take action earlier"
Binners - I've known similar behaviour if not as severe in the NHS
And he's gone!
Still a “Sir”? For services to blackmail and shitbaggery.
In absolutely any other ‘job’, if you carried on like he has, you’d be out on your ear in no time, never mind being constantly promoted.
He was chief whip though - bullying people is literally the job description