MegaSack DRAW - 6pm Christmas Eve - LIVE on our YouTube Channel
I wonder if Rishi has done the maths on the number of maths teachers needed for this and how he's going to recruit and retain them?
It doesn't matter, it's yet another dead cat announcement
It doesn’t matter, it’s yet another dead cat announcement
Sunak has 500 excess dead humans a week.
He adds one dead cat.
How many dead animals will the British media report on this week?
Show your working.
The maths thing, he mentions data and statistics being part of our lives now, but forcing maths on students and young people isn’t going to sort out the shortage of trades. Some people simply aren’t academic, and have no desire to be so. At some point, someone needs to add value, either fixing, making and building things. We can’t ALL work in coding.
Slight rant there, apologies, but I’m now on my third roofer who has definitely promised to come, and hasn’t.
It doesn’t matter, it’s yet another dead cat announcement
I guess - it just doesn't seem a very good one. It's hardly much of a distraction, hard to sell in speeches as some kind of transformative grand plan etc. I can't believe there's many people out there that either already believe or can be convinced that "Maths to 18" is going to have anything other than a negligible impact on the state of this country (and even then not for a few years).
I guess – it just doesn’t seem a very good one. It’s hardly much of a distraction, hard to sell in speeches as some kind of transformative grand plan etc. I can’t believe there’s many people out there that either already believe or can be convinced that “Maths to 18” is going to have anything other than a negligible impact on the state of this country (and even then not for a few years).
To be honest, I think he is just paying lip service to his old boss the master of the dead cat Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson. They're basically in '22 months to go - we need to loot as much as possible' mode.
The maths thing, he mentions data and statistics being part of our lives now, but forcing maths on students and young people isn’t going to sort out the shortage of trades.
I'm in no way defending Sunak - but in what professional trade do you not need a grasp of basic maths?
A plumber won't be multiplying Hex tables but there's still lots of calcs to work out.
And that roofer (when they turn up!), still has to work out what materials he needs and the costs.
The level of maths needed should be taught well before they are 16 though. If you've got to stretch it to 18 then something is wrong with the system.
Basic maths is taught in primary schools - secondary takes you all the way to Pythagoras, quadratic equations etc etc. In what world would a plumber need to know how to solve a quadratic equation? What benefit would adding another two years on have?
Muffin man - thats arithmetic not advance maths
In what world would a plumber need to know how to solve a quadratic equation? What benefit would adding another two years on have?
Totally agree.
Although some trades need to make some calculations for certain things but this can be taught in different ways.
I had to do a basic scaffold course. They used Pythagoras theorem all the time to check angles. However they just used the 3 - 4 - 5 rule.
For my professional qualifications, O level maths was required as an entry requirement, however in the initial 3 years training, we were taught some small areas of applied maths that was at degree level.
Muffin man – thats arithmetic not advance maths
Technical maybe - but to most, any working with numbers is maths.
We never bunked off arithmetics at school! 🙂
forcing maths on students and young people isn’t going to sort out the shortage of trades.
Isn't the plan for us all to be working in finance, yet homeless and relying on charities for our meals? That's the Sunak view of the world... no?
Also in this doublethink world of his...
A plumber won’t be multiplying Hex tables but there’s still lots of calcs to work out.
Yes and their training should cover that. If they muck up material quantities, under charge etc they'll soon learn. Every factory I've worked at, the shop floor workers were unlikely to have A levels but could tell if their wages were out to the penny. You get to the level you need.
I have a Maths & stats A level , did a Business & Management Studies degree (with a lot of maths/stats included) & now work in finance.
Most of my O & A level maths (algebra, quadratics, pythagoras (inc sin, cos etc), integration, differentiation, correlation and loads I've forgotten) I don't need day to day. Might have an impact on some.
Of better use would be understanding personal finance- eg loan APRs, critical thinking to see through the lies on the side of a bus.
Arrgghhh - this is really annoying me. Talking about "maths" when what they actually mean is arithmetic and numeracy!
In what world would a plumber need to know how to solve a quadratic equation? What benefit would adding another two years on have?
And even less so what world would they need to know how to do integration or matrices but then why would that plumber need to know anything to A level. I could have left school at 14 and had the same career I have had in IT. The things I learnt from 14-16 are nice to know but largely irrelevant and I could have just as easily acquired knowledge on other subjects that are nice to know (remember you choose most of the subjects you are studying)
My daughter is doing gcse maths now and it seems a perfectly reasonable level for future life.
Schools are struggling to find maths teachers of any grade so dead cat x ♾
To be honest, I think he is just paying lip service to his old boss the master of the dead cat Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson.
To give Boris his due, his suggestions/verbal outbursts were usually so utterly preposterous (Bridges to Scotland, tunnels to Ireland, airports on islands etc) that you could just discount them immediately. Rishi really needs to up his game.
Make everyone a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon by the age of 18, maybe?
It doesn't matter what he announces (an elevator to the moon, hoverboards for everyone) we all know theres absolutely eff all chance that anything will actually happen, because nothing ever does. We'll just file it with the 40 new hospitals and a new nuclear reactor a year, levelling up, northern powerhouse rail and all the other spurious bollcoks thats been spouted over the last 3 years, never to be heard of again
Teo more years of this shite to go folks, so expect lots more of this type of nonsense, while they tread water with no idea why they even want to be in power and the country falls apart around them
they tread water
A very apt metaphor because there will be a lot of activity going on below the surface, out of sight. They have 22 months to loot what is left of the post-war settlement, that is a lot of time.
2 more years of this shite to go folks, so expect lots more of this type of nonsense, while they tread water with no idea why they even want to be in power and the country falls apart around them
They want to be in power so they can continue asset stripping the country.
Announcements like this are just distractions to continue that process. Of course it'll never happen but it's a not-very-subtle way of having a bit of a dig at the folk who can't afford 2 years more education and pandering to the people who think that education is now too "woke" and fluffy and easy and they had to do algebra goddamit so the Youth Of Today should have to do it too, not this pansy media studies bollocks...
source: Nish Kumar on twitter
Not his funniest line, TBH.
GCSE Maths, for some bizarre reason, currently seems to cover a good chunk of what used to be in the 'A' Level syllabus when I was at school. My 'O' Level stopped short of anything but the most basic algebra, there was little beyond a bit of Pi wrangling, and that is a decent level for 99% of people.
Now unless you are suited to the harder stuff, there is no way to get a decent grade. Which, I'd imagine, can be pretty demotivating for many.
Its going to be interesting to see if Rishi actually takes any questions on his none-existent policy/thinking-out-loud and all the other stuff he's pretending isn't actually happening, or if he'll go for Johnsons favoured presidential style of standing behind a lectern, spouting some vague bullshit then wandering off back off to invisibility for another month
Hhhhhmmmmmmmm.... I wonder which it will be?
Now unless you are suited to the harder stuff, there is no way to get a decent grade. Which, I’d imagine, can be pretty demotivating for many.
Indeed. Its just another way for them to enforce their educational apartheid.
If you're middle class, from a decent area with good schools and parents who can pay for additional tuition then you're laughing. From a sink estate with an underfunded failing school, or if you're just someone with more practical, non-academic skill-set, then its just yet another way to deny you any opportunities
An anti-meritocracy
GCSE Maths, for some bizarre reason, currently seems to cover a good chunk of what used to be in the ‘A’ Level syllabus when I was at school. My ‘O’ Level stopped short of anything but the most basic algebra, there was little beyond a bit of Pi wrangling, and that is a decent level for 99% of people.
Now unless you are suited to the harder stuff, there is no way to get a decent grade. Which, I’d imagine, can be pretty demotivating for many.
Sounds like we are a similar era - i got an A at O level and a D at A level, totally different beasts.
I was amazed at what my kids were doing for GCSE, eldest got A* at A level further maths and his sister is heading the same way, no way "most" people don't need mu h beyond the old O level
I see Boris has sent in his attack dog Mad Nad to savage the Sunak Regime.
I wonder if Rishi has done the maths on the number of maths teachers needed for this and how he’s going to recruit and retain them?
No need. Just use the military as per every other crisis.
It doesn’t matter what he announces (an elevator to the moon, hoverboards for everyone) we all know theres absolutely eff all chance that anything will actually happen, because nothing ever does.
Well... apparently this is a policy that isn't going to have detail hung off it, never mind be implemented, 'till after the next election... if the Conservatives win it, and if Sunak is still their leader, and if anyone can still remember it... so yeah, never happening... just some noise to sound like a PM. He's just letting us know that he does have "ideas"... even if nothing will ever be implemented because his attention is taken up with wondering if he should be buying another home in the USA, to spread his options there given the way it's been ravaged by climate change in the last few years while he's been having to spend so much time over here pretending to be based in Yorkshire.
I see Boris has sent in his attack dog Mad Nad to savage the Sunak Regime.
On Newsnight last night they had three different political commentators making their predictions for 2023. Every one of them predicted Boris and his cult-members attempting to topple Rishi and reinstall their glorious leader back in his rightful place.
I doubt that all three of them pulled that out of the air, so theres obviously moves already afoot
I've got a horrible feeling that the insanity of the internal politics of the Tory party is going to be even worse than last year. The country will be just yet more collateral damage to one mans gargantuan ego
I'd love to know where 1. The maths teachers and 2. The funding for it all are coming from?
The bigger issue isn't that maths isn't taught to 18, it's that an alarming number of kids fall through the cracks in the system and have no grasp of even basic maths by the time they reach their GCSE, fixing that issue will solve a lot of the "problems" with our nationwide maths levels. But fixing that issue isn't sexy and headline grabbing, and will cost money, as it involves bringing back services that have been slashed by the cuts (not increasing budgets is a cut in real terms, unfunded payrises for teachers resulted in cuts to school services elsewhere) and this govt are allergic to spending money unless they can funnel it away to offshore accounts for them/their mates.
This is the education age where this government, including Sunak as Chancellor have...
- reduced total spending
- reduced spending per a head
- reduced the wages of educators
- have watched a recruitment crisis unfold for maths teachers
Still... wave a half baked idea around that will never be put into practice... perhaps people will forget.
EDIT: actually, the retired age voters will, won't they... you know the ones... they think modern qualifications are too easy to obtain and that all further education students are dossing off doing subjects they can't comprehend have any possible value.
Binners - thats vbeen obvious for months. Johnson decided that after Truss was too soon but its certainly going on the plotting to reinstate him
And he's off
Christ, he's patronising, isn't he? Its like he's talking to a group of toddlers
"Your priorities are my priorities. Together, we will build a better future."
and more and more vague, meaningless platitudes delivered in managementspeak like a corporate mission statement
**** off Rishi!
Hmm... what does this remind me of...? Oh yeah... I've heard a few speeches by temporary heads dropped into failing schools to turn things around... only to quickly be found to be out of their depth and moved on.
And here it is. Rishi's 'vision'.
Looking rather like the Ed Stone
https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1610638780704194567?s=20&t=tS3sN6s_hQbELXpSQTnGRA
Halving inflation won't ease the cost of living, it'll just mean it's outstripping earnings at a slightly lower rate.
And laws won't stop small boats unless they're really big laws placed in the middle of the english channel.
the-muffin-man
Full MemberI’m in no way defending Sunak – but in what professional trade do you not need a grasp of basic maths?
This is how the scam works- everyone already gets taught basic maths, in fact more than basic. Adding more teaching on the end will not help with that. But it looks plausible and lots of people are going to think "quite right, kids these days can't count without calculators or budget" like that's a skill you'll learn at 18.
May as well say every home gets a unicorn, he’s so ****ing deluded and patronising.
Id have no end of fun with the prick in a locked room
“Family looks after us when we are ill”… says a man whose family can buy any healthcare they want in any country they want.
Once you listen to Sunak as if he's Will from the inbetweeners you can't go back.
https://twitter.com/nichughes79/status/1610642393585569793?s=20&t=Im59QyuFS4VOTFmL5afcbg
“Virtual wards”… is that stay at home and have your “family look after you”?
“Virtual wards”… is that stay at home and have your “family look after you”?
Sounds suspiciously like a move to metaverse wards, wear a headset and pretend you are being treated.
Interesting comments regarding the bar being raised at GCSE level.
I was one of the last to do the old style "O" levels when the GCSE's were brought in, around 1986 I think.
They were definitely easier than the O levels when first introduced and the syllabus was reduced.
He started his speech just as I had finished eating my lunch. I swore at the TV twice before deciding it would be better to take the dog for a little walk. I was surprised that he was still going on in his condescending manner when I got back.
Inflation is going to be the big smoke and mirrors in 2023. Ooh look inflation in September 2023 is only 4% (higher than September 2022), ignore the fact that compound inflation from 2020 is 20%+ and you have only had 3% of pay rises.
“Virtual wards”… is that stay at home and have your “family look after you”?
Back of an ambulance perhaps?
Good move including reducing inflation as a target. That one might just be possible by virtue of the massive increases tailing off.
I was one of the last to do the old style “O” levels when the GCSE’s were brought in, around 1986 I think.
Here come the old guard... Have a flip though a current day GCSE maths higher exam paper, or those for triple/individual science... your O levels won't get you though them.
Sunak has zero gravitas and is perhaps the most patronising politician I've ever seen. I reckon Boris will be back by the time of the next election. The tories are not going to let Sunak take them to electoral oblivion, because that's what he's going to do.
Here come the old guard… Have a flip though a current day GCSE maths exam paper,
Did you bother to read what I posted?
Never mentioned anything about current day.
around 1986
So nearly 30 years ago.
Anyway in 2012 Ofqual found they had got easier. Not sure if that is still the case 10 years later?
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2012/may/01/gcse-alevels-easier-says-ofqual
Inflation is going to be the big smoke and mirrors in 2023. Ooh look inflation in September 2023 is only 4% (higher than September 2022), ignore the fact that compound inflation from 2020 is 20%+ and you have only had 3% of pay rises.
This. Ever increasing cost of living painted as a win. The press/media will be behind him all the way with that little ploy as well. Will it work?
around 1986
So nearly 30 years ago
Good luck with a current day GCSE maths higher exam paper!
🤓
But seriously, check one out.
Even back in "our day" the GCSEs weren't easier... or rather getting equivalent grades was no easier or based on a reduced curriculum. What did happen is that "easier" papers covering the fundementals for those not capable of getting the higher grades were introduced. And double science was introduce to keep everyone in STEM education even if they didn't shine in science(s). But a gap did open up between GCSE and A levels in some subjects as A levels were made more stretching. Things have changed in the last 35+ years to close that down though. Top GCSE grades are more of a stretch now than when first introduced. Getting a 7 is close to an old A... and there's two more grades to aim for beyond that.
Good luck with a current day GCSE maths higher exam paper!
🤓
But seriously, check one out.
I found this
Is that representative?
The only thing that I can't remember in our syllabus are statistics. We did everything else.
Paper seems quite short to me but that could just be my memory.
The Tory-leaning commentator on Five Live just nailed it
"Its sounded like it could have been written by an AI chatbot"
At least we now all know that family matters to him. Something most of us can agree with him on.
Does it mean anything at all though? A PM during a winter where the NHS has been pushed into crisis, food is noticeably more expensive every time you do your shop, public transport is stagnating as unions resist the double whammy of job losses and real term pay cuts, putting the heating on feels like a luxury, businesses are shutting down on high streets and trading estates across the UK… at least we agree that family means something to most of us.
Family, family.
Is… that… it?!?
Oh, one more thing… do things “differently, and better”.
🤷🏻♂️
Once you listen to Sunak as if he’s Will from the inbetweeners you can’t go back.
I’d been wondering why I found Sunak‘s voice so familiar 🙂
"Once you listen to Sunak as if he’s Will from the inbetweeners you can’t go back."
He out Milibands Ed Miliband by some distance.
I am loving his " please don't cancel elective surgery" plea. Just how are folk to have surgery if there is no bed for them? Semi detached idiot he is
So we are going to get more choice in our healthcare as he single handedly takes millions off the waiting lists do we think that he will force the private sector to help us out is his maths failing him a bit don’t get ill folks🤬
Getting a 7 is close to an old A… and there’s two more grades to aim for beyond that.
Yeah but to get an A++ you need to get 101% or more on your maths test, which is a result only public school boys achieve.
Sunak has zero gravitas and is perhaps the most patronising politician I’ve ever seen. I reckon Boris will be back by the time of the next election. The tories are not going to let Sunak take them to electoral oblivion, because that’s what he’s going to do.
Sunak has until the local elections in May. All bets will be off after that if it goes the expected way for him. Though to be fair, BJ might not be an MP by then if the ethics committee see fit so that'll muck the cunning plan up a bit.
Probably the only chance of a general election this year too - the Tories deciding that they'd rather loose by 100 seats now than get beaten by 200 seats the following year.
the Tories deciding that they’d rather loose by 100 seats now than get beaten by 200 seats the following year.
They would get beat by at least 200 seats now. Next year could be a lot more. It’s entirely feasible that they could be left with less than 100 seats after the next election.
The worst of the recent predictions for the tories showed them coming in 3rd place behind the SNP who would then be the official opposition. Now that would be truely funny
There is no way that the tories will do anything but hang on as long as possible.
they could be left with less than 100 seats after the next election
As much as I’d like that I think it’s unlikely. A few articles in the sun, mail & express will bolster their support🙁
Yeah the likes of the express are in full 'hate hary and meghan' mode at the moment... because theres apparenty nothing else news worthy. Come election time they will ramp up the general 'us V's them' haterage to keep the tories in power.
Though to be fair, BJ might not be an MP by then if the ethics committee see fit so that’ll muck the cunning plan up a bit.
Probably the only chance of a general election this year too – the Tories deciding that they’d rather loose by 100 seats now than get beaten by 200 seats the following year.
Johnson will want to be in a much safer seat, but booting out a sitting MP to do so will look cowardly, the rohipnol rape mps seat may be vacant soon if he's found guilty & thats a very safe bet for Johnson...
But sunak's not gone yet, even a trashing in the locals won't be the end for him, because all the other candidates are just as useless
Losing by 100 or 200 makes no odds, the tories will cling on to the last in the hope that either Labour will screw up or the economy /inflation will turn around
2 more years of these clowns in power
Edit
Tho I will say that holding a GE in the winter 2025 flu/covid NHS crisis would play very bad for the tories,
They might consider a summer 2024 GE
Losing by 100 or 200 makes no odds
Of course it does, it makes a huge difference. Losing by 100 seats makes it extremely hard to win the following general election, losing by 200 seats makes winning the following general election historically unprecedented, in other words impossible.
Also losing by 200 seats means a lot less big guns in parliament than losing by a 100. And a lower profile with less media coverage.
The Tories single greatest priority right now will be damage limitation, the consequences of total electoral meltdown are unimaginable to them.
The Tories are, if they really screw up badly, realistically looking at possibly their worst electoral defeat in 200 years of history.
The British Conservative Party is one of the most successful political parties in the world, they won't be blase about that level of defeat.
The British Conservative Party is one of the most successful political parties in the world
I dunno, the Khmer Rouge were pretty successful.
Founded in 1678 the Tory Party, and its successor the Conservative and Unionist Party, is the oldest political party in the world. It has been in power most of the last 200 years. It is still in power today.
Despite strong support from a Tory government the Khmer Rouge were remarkably less successful.
Can i just point out, i failed my 11 plus and i remain quietly proud of that achievement.
Also got one O level in 1979 (History) i felt i had over achieved.
My careers interview at school was "limited" to would you like the brush or the shovel? Went for the shovel.
Despite strong support from a Tory government the Khmer Rouge were remarkably less successful.
I guess it depends on how you define the paradigm of success.
“Virtual wards”
At least we know what the 40 new hospitals will look like. No doubt careful Tory management will have them looking like this within a few weeks:
Looks like Simon Pegg has the last word on Rishi's words of wisdom yesterday
Its quite sweary, but accurate
https://twitter.com/MarinaPurkiss/status/1610946422010163200?s=20&t=JD7rTyga2Wtr8QD6UteLNQ
GE in the winter 2025 flu/covid NHS crisis would play very bad for the tories,
They might consider a summer 2024 GE
I thought the latest they can hold an election will be Dec 2024 with a 5 year term?
At least we can now say there’ll be an election no later than next year now.
Jan 25 is the last date. Likely to be earlier tho - no one likes an election then. Oct 24 would be my guess
I thought the latest they can hold an election will be Dec 2024 with a 5 year term?
Latest date is 24th Jan 2025
I seriously doubt they'll have solved the nhs crises by then, I could well see it being worse, the tories will want to stave a GE off as long as possible, but I'll bet they won't want it in flu season... September 24 is now my guess
Who's going to work in these 40 new hospitals?
As they are imaginary hospitals I guess imaginary staff
we don't need maths to 18. We need maths to be taught at a useful level, and sufficient investment into it, that people leave school numerate (and literate) as a minimum at a level that enables them to understand things like interest rates and true costs of loans, how to work out how many carpet tiles you need for your floor, and how to understand probability and risk in real life situations.
Some people may benefit from maths beyond 16 if they haven't acquired that understanding but that's not the same as compulsory maths, and may well need delivering in a different setting - as said previously if they go into trades they'll acquire the ability to work out how many tiles are needed for a roof by using the maths (sorry TJ, arithmetic) that supports it.
I did maths to O, A/O and A levels and as it got further up the scale the less useful it got. Square root of -1, and so on. Might be useful if you go on to a career in maybe physics, where theoretical maths enables you to solve quantum theory equations, but not at any useful life level.
And added to that, we need general life skills training rather than academic quals. I was interested to read (linked through from a Guardian piece on the Maths to 18 policy) about 'Div' at Winchester of all places. I suspect subject matter selected at Winchester might be a bit high brow but an hour a week in schools on something similar, developing the life skills of analysis, debate, etc. will equip kids far more than another two years trying to estimate the shape of a quadratic equation on graph paper.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/05/maths-schools-rishi-sunak-arts-sport
developing the life skills of analysis, debate, etc. will equip kids far more
there is NO WAY that Tories will ever support giving the proles the tools to even start to recognise and counter their corrupt, mendacious, immoral behaviour. Just not gonna happen.
An ill educated population is essential for their world view of the vast majority of us as cattle to be milked and then slaughtered to keep them in their finery.
I really think a distinction should be drawn between the people who have a legitimate objection to teaching maths skills up to the age of 18, and the people who didn’t like maths at school and are proud of their innumeracy.
Extra lessons that specifically cover the core concepts* of maths in modern society along with critical thinking skills are no bad thing, and can be taught by any competent** teacher.
* Section 1: how the modern world seeks to rip you off (Klarna, betting shops, supermarket “deals”, car finance etc etc).
Section 2: how the modern world (press, politicians etc) lie to and manipulate you. See also: Brexit.
I dislike Rishi Sunak but I think this is a good idea and if nothing else brings us in line with the rest of Europe.
** if you can’t explain to a 17-year-old how paying the minimum amount on a credit card debt is a bad idea, maybe you shouldn’t be teaching.
But Rishi is not suggesting what you have is he? He is just suggesting maths as it is (integration, differentiation, matrices) and all the other useless shit you learn in A level maths.
None of that stuff should be being taught as "maths" post O level. Its O level ( grade / gcse or what ever pre 16 exam) arithmetic
NO need to study "maths" to 18 to have basic numeracy. 16 - 18 maths is not relevant to the real world
To say - "everyone should have basic numeracy on leaving school" is fine. to say everyone should study maths to 18 is daft
I get how support for the Tories spectacularly collapsed under Liz Truss's premiership - shamelessly pandering to the wealthy during a severe cost of living crises for everyone else, and totally spooking the markets in the process.
What I don't understand is how Rishi Sunak hasn't significantly improved the situation for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/PeoplePolling?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
It's as if Liz Truss has sent the Tories into a death spiral that they can't get out of.
I suspect that if the Tories had not exposed the public to 44 days of Liz Truss's premiership they might be in a stronger position today.
Perhaps winning back disgruntled voters is a lot harder than losing them.
