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@dazh " The tories will then be wiped out and the liberals can regain control from the loons and start again."
Unfortunately I don't think this will be the result when the Tories implode at the GE. I suspect that the loons (who lets face it have very little else in their lives to grift with) will be the ones to take control under the mantra of 'sensible' Rishi was what caused the disaster. Their paymasters from various dark corners of the world/city will keep them funded and they will kick out any remaining moderates. The Tory party will give up any vestiges of being conservatives as we used to know them pre-Boris and basically turn into a full blown national front type effort. If this coincides with a Trump whitehouse we are basically all doomed. If not, I think they will wither and die as a lot of their base does the same. We can but hope.
Geebeebies are constantly on about the “silent majority”...
Standard right-wing playbook, it feeds into the "we're being ignored / cancelled!" mantra and the myth that there is some sort of leftie global elitist cabal behind everything and that all around YOU - you with your precious valuable right-wing views - there is a Silent Majority just like YOU who would come rushing out if only YOU would stand up for your beliefs. If YOU stand up, the Silent Majority around YOU will do the same.
Except that the silent majority doesn't exist - or if it does it certainly doesn't share your right-wing views!
You think they care what anyone thinks? Of course they’ll have another leadership election before they even countenance a general election.
They'll have another leadership election sure, but they'll find it very difficult to resist the pressure for an immediate election. You can bet Sunak's first line of defence will be that another leadership change will require an election to be called. Maybe he could even call one himself as it's within his power.
Blimey, Sunaks back in the UK. I assumed he'd fund some pressing business abroad for a few more days.
One things for sure... the blame game will already be well underway and they'll dedicate all their efforts to fighting like rats in a sack and to hell with what happens to the country in the meantime
We effectively don't really have a government at the moment, which is actually a blessing given what they'd try to do if they could be arsed. All they do is blurt out stupid 'ideas' like Alan Partridge thinking of programmes. I see this morning its making teachers strikes illegal
They’ll have another leadership election sure, but they’ll find it very difficult to resist the pressure for an immediate election.
Yeah given the option of feeling a bit embarrassed when asked about "dont you feel you should be having an election now" vs an extra year of 80k I dont think it would be a hard decision. Especially since the next year can be spent job hunting/doing second jobs.
It also doesnt make sense for the new "leader" to go for the job under those circumstances since they will be held responsible for the GE results and, if as dire as it looks for them, would almost certainly get the boot.
So be a case of either hold out for the year and turn things around (good luck with that plan) or dont go for the leadership now and wait to be leader in opposition.
That said considering how batshit the leading candidates are who knows.
I suspect that the loons (who lets face it have very little else in their lives to grift with) will be the ones to take control under the mantra of ‘sensible’ Rishi was what caused the disaster.
Don't underestimate the power of the political establishment. The tories are in a very similar position to Labour in 2019. In order to regain control, the centre-right establishment needs the tories to lose big so they can discredit the right. Remember if they change leader it won't be Sunak who carries the can, it'll be whoever replaces him. Even if Sunak stays on, when he loses the narrative will be that it was because of Johnson and Truss and the rightwing nutjobs. The conclusion will be the same, that their dalliance with far right populism has been a disaster and they need to return to the centre.
Even if Sunak stays on, when he loses the narrative will be that it was because of Johnson and Truss and the rightwing nutjobs. The conclusion will be the same, that their dalliance with far right populism has been a disaster and they need to return to the centre..
I think you've got that completely wrong mate.
Isn't the predominant narrative with the fruitloops that constitute the present Tory party that Boris Johnson was a socialist and that Liz was right all along, but was sabotaged by the Bank of England and other associated communists?
No way will anyone remotely sane be the next leader. Theres nobody who isn't completely batshit left in the party, for a start
They're going to elect a complete headbanger like Braverman for sure. I stuck a fiver on her as next leader a few months back at 9/1 and I still think thats a safe bet
We're about to witness the Tory party's final act to fully complete its UKIPisation and disappear off into the outer reaches of far-right, loony conspiracy theorist territory
Where is the centre right "One Nation" in the current tory party?
Johnson got rid of nearly all of them.
I hope they slip further to the right and get absolutely destroyed.
Corbyn had some sensible people in shadow cabinet who were in a position to rebuild the party when he went.
Which current senior Tory politician could move the party back to the centre?
Yeah given the option of feeling a bit embarrassed when asked about “dont you feel you should be having an election now” vs an extra year of 80k I dont think it would be a hard decision.
Most tory MPs are independently wealthy. Another 80k is neither here nor there to them.
No way will anyone remotely sane be the next leader.
I'm talking about the next post-election leader. If they get rid of Sunak they'll absolutely elect a nutjob. If centre-right tories are going to regain control in a similar way that Starmer has with labour then they need to lose massively at the next election, preferably with Braverman as leader. Johnson may have got rid of them all but they're still there, waiting for their chance.
Johnson may have got rid of them all but they’re still there, waiting for their chance.
Where are they? I can think of only a few MPs, single figures, and some of them are standing down with others likely to lose their seats. And if you're expecting lots of them to appear in an election sometime about 2029... local associations are still key to candidate selection... and their memberships are now fully UKIPized across the country... just look at the fresh candidates selected in 2019 and since.
Exactly.
They thought Andrew Cooper was the right man to put in a completely safe Tory seat.
A block who told people who could not feed their families to **** off on FB.
Most tory MPs are independently wealthy. Another 80k is neither here nor there to them.
And yet they're always after more.
Remember the sting operation that caught Hancock, Kwarteng and a few others discussing their consultancy rates of £10k (ish) per day? They're in it for every penny they can get, every expense claim, every paycheck and every moment they can vote themselves another payrise.
The actual MPs salary may be peanuts to some/many of them but they're using the position to lobby, to "consult" etc and for that, they get paid even more. Give up the MP thing and the rest falls flat too.
Sunak is a multi-millionaire, he doesn't need to do this job at all. Why's he in post? It's certainly not for the salary, it's for the connections and side-gigs he can get from it.
Where are they?
They're still members of the party and active politically. Gauke, Hammond, Osborne, Grieve, McBride even Theresa May could all make a comeback. If the worst-case scenarios play out then there won't be many tory MPs left to pick up the pieces so that will enable those not in parliament to assert themselves. It's not impossible that May could find herself back as leader as a recovery candidate.
Well if you think that Osbourne and Hammond are centrists then that shows how far right the whole lot are.
It's a wonder they're not all called the Far-Right Honourable....
and the tory MPs do not want a loon in charge
And yet; Truss.
And yet they’re always after more.
I will bet money that every Tory MP is furiously writing a diary and secretly saving a cache of emails and watts app s in preparation for the tell all memoir that they're all going to write once they lose their jobs
kelvin
Full Member
Amazing that May, who built her political career attacking human rights and wanting people to “go home” is now seen as the sensible one… but I take your point.
I think the only good thing that can be said of May was that she was the last of the "normal" Tory PM's. By that I mean she was very much a paid up member of the Nasty Party but she still had some sense of duty in public office... Even if her vision of that was, well,a nasty one.
Then Boris came along and the Nasty Party was consumed by UKIP and is still currently engaged in eating it's own entrails.
There isn't really a Tory party anymore it exists in name only.
And yet; Truss.
Indeed. And her demented Tufton Street ramblings were the hottest ticket in town at the Party Conference, which tells you all you need to know about the direction of travel of the Tory party.
The next leader will be completely hatstand and run on a platform of bringing back hanging, converting disused coal mines into storage facilities for asylum seekers and privatising breathing
The next leader will be completely hatstand and run on a platform of bringing back hanging, converting disused coal mines into storage facilities for asylum seekers and privatising breathing
I'm reminded of the election episode in Blackadder III:
Blackadder: ...his interests include flogging servants, shooting poor people, and the extension of slavery to anyone who hasn’t got a knighthood.
Prince Regent: Excellent! Sensible policies for a happier Britain!
I think the only good thing that can be said of May was that she was the last of the “normal” Tory PM’s. By that I mean she was very much a paid up member of the Nasty Party
Oddly enough "nasty party" was a phrase she popularised back in 2002. Her speech back then is at odds with her actions as home secretary.
I think the only good thing that can be said of May was that she was the last of the “normal” Tory PM’s. By that I mean she was very much a paid up member of the Nasty Party but she still had some sense of duty in public office… Even if her vision of that was, well,a nasty one.
Behind me is a newsstand poster from the London Evening Standard, 28 November 1990, with the words 'OFFICIAL: THATCHER QUITS', which MrsDoris blagged on the day, and framed.
And yet!
In the last two years or so, we have found ourselves saying things like "Say what you like about Thatcher, but at least she actually had some principles"
And then laughing at how ridiculous that sounds.
Looking at the byelection results.
Something which is going to be problematic for the tories is if they had gone full fruitcake they might have won.
The votes they lost to Reform UK would have been sufficient to win both the seats (assuming the full fruitcake didnt turn off some of the voters who managed to stay loyal).
(assuming the full fruitcake didnt turn off some of the voters who managed to stay loyal).
The current level of fruitcase is what is turning Tory voters against them.
Looking at the level of turnout it seems that a lot of Tory loyalists abstained as they could not bring themselves to vote for this shower but could not vote labour.
Going further right will simply cause more previous Tory voters to abstain or vote against them.
Wasn't Theresa May's husband linked to a company that the Home Office were using to enact some of May's policies as Home Secretary? I suspect that the grift was going on even back then, they were just trying to be a bit more discreet about it. Even back in Thatcher's day, there were several Tory MPs shown to be exploiting their position for personal gain, but back then, you were expected to resign if you got caught with your fingers in the till, or your todger in your personal assistant.
May had a public service ethos
Whoa, whoa, whoa, now slow down there. Is this the same May who slashed and burned the police force? How do you see this as a public service ethos?
She is just as bad as the rest. She only seems 'reasonable' when viewed through the prism of lunacy that followed her.
They were the good old days, weren't they?
Where you had proper scandals, resulting in a resignation, involving getting caught shagging a rent boy while dressed in an SS officers uniform, off your tits on nosebag.
Nowadays they just shrug and carry on when its revealed they gave a 300 million quid PPE contract to their au pair
I agree with all that as well Coyote. Especially from a North/Manchester policing perspective.
Even back in Thatcher’s day, there were several Tory MPs shown to be exploiting their position for personal gain
Including Thatcher! She promoted her son's construction company to the Sultan of Oman for a big contract.
sillysilly t’s not “bull”. UK taxpayers monies were put into 4 businesses where Sunak’s wife was also an investor, and 3 of the 4 failed. I’d want to see the business case that the UK Bank Team (whoever they are) wrote at the time showing why they believed these were good investments AND I’d want to see who got there money out before they failed. Without this evidence I’m assuming something dodgy occurred.
9/10 new businesses fail in the first 2 years. The co she is part of are just as crap picking which businesses to invest in, as are most other UK VC investors, all who did exactly the same thing with UK taxpayers money. The VC business model is to utilise their fund into 20 or so CO’s. Hopefully one of which will provide outsized returns of 100x or so. Great if you have Instagram in your portfolio, not so much this tosh. The gov essentially outsourced DD to VC’s and investors for this scheme.
My point is the journo could have written a piece about the VC co picking crap co’s but for some reason turned it into a hit piece. The scheme was poorly conceived in a hurry but at its heart was to keep the economy running and drive employment through Covid, not to personally enrich Rishi’s wife which it obviously hasn’t. To even hint at this when there are so many easier ways to be corrupt just shows total misunderstanding of business, vc and investment. If they let one of their finance editors skim read it they would have laughed.
The crime here is that the very best co’s were over subscribed and didn’t take money from the fund. If UK only had a chunk of Onlyfans, there would likely be enough to pay for the NHS. UK co is doing $5.6bn GPV!
"The co she is part of are just as crap . . . ."
You'd think a Billionaire would have a better than 25% success rate . . . . or they wouldn't still be a Billionaire 🙂
points on for a nice reference @klunk, points off for giving me an earworm. 🙂
or they wouldn’t still be a Billionaire
when the suckers tax payers foot the bill
tories taking entirely the wrong message & lurching even further to the right
exhibit A
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1715406490805170412?t=qHwC3n1AATrLkITZ25lXeA&s=19
If Sunak loses next year
Now there's a nice positive attitude from Andrew Neil, most other people are saying "when".
The latest poll:
The latest voter intention poll by WeThink revealed Labour’s support rose by four points to 48% while the Tores dropped a point to 27%.
Just in case there's any youngsters in tonight