[Closed] Religious ‘End-of-Days’ nuts; scary.

Religions themselves don't cause harm, it's the followers of such, and their interpretations of doctrines and guidelines that do.

[url=

don't kill people....[/url]

Sorry, I should clarify:

No-one has the right to assume their views are superior to someone else, unless they can prove incontrovertibly that they are right.

Since no one group or person has yet proved or disproved the existence of God, then I think folk should respect one another's right to their particular views.

I'm Agnostic. I find a lot of the views of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists etc not to my particular taste. I'm sure, in my mind, that a fair chunk of it is bollocks. but then, I also feel the same way about Science (the religion for the post-industrial age). I am told that the universe is x miles wide or whatever, without being shown any proof. Amongst other equally preposterous things.

Don't make me righter or wronger than anyone else though. I could have it all wrong, and in fact the 'weirdo' down the street has in fact got it 'right'. Who knows?

Bit more respect and humility between folk wouldn't come amiss, I reckon.

My point!

People aren't quite as free to believe as you think though.
how many people suddenly decide to follow Buddhism after growing up in Tehran?
How many folk convert to Judaism in Japan?
How many people followed Christ in pre-Columbian America?
Generally, what you believe is tightly controlled by where you were born and the indoctrination by your relatives.
(even if the instinct for spirituality, or not, seems to be contolled by a series of genes)
One of the important points that us evil atheists always try to get across is that people should try and critically examine what and why they themselves end up believing in.

Fair point, west-kipper, I suppose I should have made it clear I was referring to most people in the West. Even within communities, there is narrow-mindedness and intolerance.

If someone is truly secure in their beliefs, then surely they would have little or no reason to argue such things with others?

I'm not 100% confident in what I think I know. I try to be open to other ideas and alternative philosophies. I believe there is much I can learn, from all others. Because maybe, just maybe, Joe Bloggs down the road might come up with something I haven't thought of, or may have missed. It is possible, and therefore I think it's important to keep an open mind.

Thre's only one form of belief that can be tested, and tested again with any reliability or consistency,
Its called SCIENCE.

Personally, If I had to pick one to join up to, I think Hindus have the best food, Celebrate making sweet love in varied ways, and the more naked, dirty and stoned you are, the more holy.

I seem to remember catholiscism seems to be about making you guilty about a swift one off the wrist

Thre's only one form of belief that can be tested, and tested again with any reliability or consistency,
Its called SCIENCE.

well, you do it three times and stick some error bars on.

[i]Thre's only one form of belief that can be tested, and tested again with any reliability or consistency,
Its called SCIENCE.[/i]

Any belief system can be tested and found to be true when tested against it's own logic system.
So the Christian religion can be shown to be rubbish when tested using scientific methods and likewise science can be shown to be rubbish if you use the bible as your test method.

Well I'm open to hearing a better one.
Most religions dont have any method at all.
(I notice that you're even using scientific terminology there to rebuff me)

and insulting others who live a life based on that subject.
but there's the rub - can one rationally claim to follow Jesus in a militant fashion ? Or perhaps Jesus was too wimpy and you just pick the violent bits out of the Bible ? It all seems a bit complicated

I don't think Talkemada was expecting The Spanish Inquisition 😉

😀

Brethren, let us Gather In Worship...

[img] ?90912L2_MINOGUE_B_GR_01[/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Now.... what..err...was..this, um.. thread about again?

I blame Michael Hutchence...

Markd

Imagine there was no such thing as religion and no concept of a god or similar thing.
A man walks up to you and says he is going to build a series of massive buildings in honour of a man who lives in the sky and who simultaneously demands that you MUST love him and MUST seek his forgiveness for things he says you have done wrong. You must also fear him btw, and submit to his will and put blind faith in him.

Who said you have to submit,love etc? Or does that part not suit your post?

Atheism is not a religion.

Some people treat it like dogma tho eh Woppit? 🙂

Plus, you are allowed to disagree with people but you are not allowed to upset them by trying to ram your views down their throat like you do on here.

And for those followers of science, all science does is answer questions about the physical universe. It doesn't really tell us why it's all here, if there really is a supreme being or not, or if our existence has been managed for any kind of purpose.

Rats in a maze...

Some people treat it like dogma tho eh Woppit?

I hadn't noticed.

Plus, you are allowed to disagree with people but you are not allowed to upset them by trying to ram your views down their throat like you do on here.

Um, I don't "ram" anything. Nobody is forced to read this stuff. I do like to argue robustly when I'm in the mood, though. As do many others on many subjects. Do you respond to them all with strictures and instructions as to their behaviour?

On whose behalf are you issuing this edict? Surely you don't have control of the rules governing participation? I thought that was the responsibility of the Forum Moderators? Or have you been elected Pope recently. If not, I could well be ecouraged towards a pithy response, the contents of which I will leave to your imagination. After all, I don't want to be considered "aggressive"...

And for those followers of science, all science does is answer questions about the physical universe. It doesn't really tell us why it's all here, if there really is a supreme being or not, or if our existence has been managed for any kind of purpose.

Oh well. I suppose that about wraps it up, then. Subject over.

Um, I don't "ram" anything. Nobody is forced to read this stuff.

🙄

You only know if it's gonna upset you after you've read it...

On whose behalf are you issuing this edict?

Well it's part of how to behave in a considerate caring society, is it not?

Oh well. I suppose that about wraps it up, then. Subject over.

Amen. Oh damn..

Ooh, bottoms....

Thre's only one form of belief that can be tested, and tested again with any reliability or consistency,
Its called SCIENCE.

But herein lies a problem. Science is not good at understanding qualities, for it is only able to pontificate on that which can be quantified, and in quantifying many aspects of life you lose the very essence. Not only that, but science is a very human endeavour, whereby it is is at the mercy of the metaphors utlised by scientists to explain their hypotheses and theories. Science can neither tell us anything about events that happen spontaneously, since it limits itself to that which is replicable, by anyone, anywhere, at any time. Then finally we have quantum theory that shows us that the consciousness of the observer very much does have an impact on that which is observed, and any pretence at true objectivity goes out of the window.......

Presumably you didn't read molgrips's final [i]definitive[/i] summing up...

Lol 🙂

Science can neither tell us anything about events that happen spontaneously

Not quite right..

Then finally we have quantum theory that shows us that the consciousness of the observer very much does have an impact on that which is observed

Again.. that's not exactly how it works. But the essence of your post is bang on.

So then believers - I ask you for one piece of evidence that any god exists. I am not asking for proof - but just one tiny bit of evidence that stands up to any objective scrutiny.

Then it deteriorated into a bitter slanging match

I tried to steer it towards the nature and ramifications of belief but no one was interested 🙁

So then believers - I ask you for one piece of evidence that any god exists.

Coming right up!

[img] [/img]

Enough of who believes in God or not, who believes they are God?

[i]- I ask you for one piece of evidence that any god exists. I am not asking for proof - but just one tiny bit of evidence that stands up to any objective scrutiny.[/i]

What count's as objective though? I mean if God's created everything, then he's also created your objectivity.
Anyway if you want one tiny bit of evidence that God exists look at the big bang. God as a creator appears as rational as any other argument.
It all goes a bit wrong when you bring religion in though 😉

/edit Just realised that you framed the question at believers, so that rules me out.

I believe in BOD -will that do?

BOD?

Bottom Of the Day?

I am not asking for proof - but just one tiny bit of evidence that stands up to any objective scrutiny

If you have to ask that, then you don't get it 🙂

There is only one BOD and that is the true BOD
[img] [/img]

Well, I think I'll keep my Antipodean Pop Princess over your Irish Egg-chaser...

So then non-believers - I ask you for one piece of evidence that any god does [b]not[/b] exist.

How about that then? Eh?

Atheists Sir? They don't like it up 'em!

Anyway if you want one tiny bit of evidence that God exists look at the big bang

where is it ? How can a conjecture be evidence ? Also, assuming god or gods exist, why should we care ?

There is only one BOD and that is the true BOD

What flavour milkshake is he going to have today though?

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I think I'll have.......

The evidence available cant, as you know, prove a non-negative, but even someone untrained in science can see that the wish-fulfillment god of all human religion doesn't exist.
A look at the world, at nature at all its levels shows that a loving, caring god is nowhere to be seen.
Everything alive suffers, weakens, dies, goes extinct, often randomly, always unfairly.
If some sort of god exists, then its a god of utter dispassionate indifference.
And if thats the case, then it might be more likely that no god exists at all.

Bod has a good line in gnomic phrases. He has only just started on the deity thing but he is getting the hang of it.

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad."

West kipper - the theory is that those who have suffered in real life end up in eternal bliss after they die. And if you pray for something directly God is not meant to answer it directly (an idea lost on many). However he finds ways to help you in other ways. This is quite possibly indistinguishable from pure randomness; one might say that some people see the hand of God in random things that happen - one might just as easily claim they are random. Quite hard to prove either way 🙂

For example, if you are driving along and you over-cook a corner, leave the road and end up through a hedge in a field right-side up and unharmed, one person might say 'phew, that was lucky' and another might say 'thankyou God for teaching me a lesson by allowin the car to spin, but not actually letting me die'. Impossible to prove either way.

Which goes back to what I was saying on the other thread about God making perfect sense to those folk who are religious.

avdave2 - Member

Enough of who believes in God or not, who believes they are God?

molgrips, evidently...

I could be - you would never know!

the theory is that those who have suffered in real life end up in eternal bliss after they die

god I hope not that sounds even worse 🙁 - eternal bliss without challenge or learning or striving or development? Yek! Though actually, how would one tell the difference between eternal bliss and say, a whole day, or an hour or a minute ? Even hell sounds more interesting! Are we here just to stop god(s) getting bored ?

molgrips - Member

I could be - you would never know!

Bit like "being famous" - you'll still be a c*nt.

Mr Whoppit your now in an argument with someone you don't believe exists.

Woppit, I'm not a c*nt.

eternal bliss without challenge or learning or striving or development?

Bliss would be whatever you like to do. So if it's challenges you want, that's what you'd get. Innit.

So if it's challenges you want, that's what you'd get. Innit.

so you mean it would be just like life ? Could that work ?