No arguments here, though the keyword there is very much "should."
Depending on the theism de jour, when you're dealing with the infallible word of god there's not always a lot of wiggle room.
Science is by definition open to change.
Religion, unfortunately, isn't.
Science *does* change, every single day. Rarely does a scientific theory get totally trashed, but they regularly get refined. Gravity to quantum theory. Newton wasn't wrong, just OK for apples, which was utterly magnificent back in the day. Now we have to cope with weird wave-particle duality and possibly dead cats.
Religion either does not change (fundamentalism) and consequently looks stupid, and often offensively out of kilter with modern thinking, or, sort of stutters along as scientific developments become so blindingly obvious and mainstream only the truly dull fail to embrace them.
Basically we need to ensure non-rational thought is left to artists, where it can do wonderful things. Not though in most of real life where it mostly leads to ignorance and nastiness.
Religion either does not change (fundamentalism) and consequently looks stupid, and often offensively out of kilter with modern thinking, or, sort of stutters along as scientific developments become so blindingly obvious and mainstream only the truly dull fail to embrace them.
Religions change in much more fundamental ways than just to accommodate scientific thought.
Religion, unfortunately, isn't.
but that is just wrong most religions have undergone huge changes in their lifetimes
Yes, but often *because* of science - or other historical reasons which suited its purpose. Like the CoE now arguing (embarrassingly) about female vicars, or whether or not to like homosexuals. It always seems to *follow* changes in society, coming more often than not from rational thought, or heroic behaviour.
Lets have evidence where a religion has changed independently. genuinely interested.
CofE isn't really a religion is it?
More of a Cake and Tea and Condoms and Divorce are okay society.
Vatican II
Henry VIII
Martin Luther
Transfer of Sikh Gurus from individuals to scritpure
Sunni / Shia
Various interpretations of Buddhism
CofE isn't really a religion is it?More of a Cake and Tea and Condoms and Divorce are okay society.
Where do I sign up?
CofE isn't really a religion is it?More of a Cake and Tea and Condoms and Divorce are okay society.
But no women in power or bumming please.
Is it too late to withdraw my application?
Is it too late to withdraw my application?
Afraid not, once you've committed to the bumming, it's difficult to withdraw
Afraid not, once you've committed to the bumming, it's difficult to withdraw
I think you're getting CofE and Catholic confused.
Loving this, somewhat [i]irreverent[/i] thread. 😀
Emsz, s'ok, sweetie, I don't hold you responsible for the Nickleback albums; most of the culprits seem to be of the beardy male variety!
And SamCooke seems to think that Which Tyler led the Pedants Revolt... 😆
I loved him in Life On Mars.
But the Westboro Baptist Church are a group of a few seriously misguided individuals...
As opposed to other religious believers who are what? 😯
please, don't turn this into a genocidal, homophobic, costume-wearing pan-global scary bag of shit.
People are bad, irrespective of religion. There have always been wars and nastiness, across (almost) every religion. Even the ones that tell you not to kill people.
The only common factor is people arguing about their differences.
It is not religion that makes the wars happen. People fight about all sorts of things, religion is just one.
PS I am not religious, I do not believe in God.
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It is not religion that makes the wars happen. People fight about all sorts of things, religion is just one.
Which brings us neatly to a related oatmeal cartoon:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/atheism
😀
awesome link graham 🙂
did we get to the bottom of the CoE prevaricating about women bishops? "Yes we will allow some women bishops but don't worry, you can opt out if having [s]someone in a dress[/s] a lady for a boss inflames your misogynism" sounds like prevarication to me
I can't help thinking if Tim Minchin was prime minister the country would not only be a much nicer place but also a lot funnier. The quote is absolutely spot on. Which now makes me sound arrogant too. So be it.
people who say science and religion are similar have no real understanding of either.
they are both a quest for knowledge and attempt to find truth.
Whilst they have totally different methods its the same journey. A road bike and a MTB are totally different and they ride different paths but they are both still bikes and everyone a cyclists.
Please forgive my sophist argument and overstretched metaphor/analogy for you are of course correct 😀
bigrich that's a big statement to provide no supporting evidence for!
why?
'cos it's just an opinion, some kind of intelligent wadding would help.
Ooh, where can I get some of this intelligent wadding? I could use some at work.
'cos it's just an opinion, some kind of intelligent wadding would help.
I'm game.
Science is supported by provable facts and workable theories (NB in science a theory does not mean a wild notion, to be counted as a theory in science means passing lots of peer reviewed tests with flying colours).
Religion is all about ignoring facts, as there are none, not a single teenie weenie peer reviewed fact whatsoever to support any religion.
I think that proves conclusively that religion and science are nothing alike.
Science is supported by provable facts and workable theories (NB in science a theory does not mean a wild notion, to be counted as a theory in science means passing lots of peer reviewed tests with flying colours).
Where did you get this pap from?
A scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment."[1][2] Scientists create scientific theories from hypotheses that have been corroborated through the scientific method, then gather evidence to test their accuracy. As with all forms of scientific knowledge, scientific theories are inductive in nature and do not make apodictic propositions; instead, they aim for predictive and explanatory force.[3][4]
The strength of a scientific theory is related to the diversity of phenomena it can explain, which is measured by its ability to make falsifiable predictions with respect to those phenomena. Theories are improved as more evidence is gathered, so that accuracy in prediction improves over time. Scientists use theories as a foundation to gain further scientific knowledge, as well as to accomplish goals such as inventing technology or curing disease.
Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.[3] This is significantly different from the word "theory" in common usage, which implies that something is unproven or speculative.[5]
I got that pap from Wikipedia but all sources say much the same.
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Advantage common sense and facts, SamCooke to serve.
P.S. Unreserved grovelling apology from SamCooke accepted.
Where did you get this pap from?
Probably from a big book.
Ah excellent. It appears CatholicDefense has published a reply to the original comic:
http://catholicdefense.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/a-catholic-reply-to-how-to-suck-at-your.html
Catholics, hmm, aren't they the the ones that persecuted Jews before Hitler was even a twinkle in his father's eye?
Well, the NAS definition is certainly fine, but that's not what you said is it. If it was, i wouldn't have called it pap.
but that's not what you said is it.
I thought it was. But I'm often wrong. Do point out the error of my ways please.
Would this guy be an example of one of those Christians who are all really nice and non-judgemental?
A senior figure in the Catholic Church in Scotland has claimed medical evidence suggests that homosexual conduct "is hazardous, is harmful, and is dangerous".Mr Kearney went on to insist that medical studies had shown that homosexual conduct shortened life expectancy by up to 20 years.
Scientific theory is supported by facts, science is the organisation of ideas into verifiable constructs. Science and scientific theory are not interchangeable
Scientific theory is supported by facts, science is the organisation of ideas into verifiable constructs. Science and scientific theory are not interchangeable
That's different to:
Science is supported by provable facts and workable theories (NB in science a theory does not mean a wild notion, to be counted as a theory in science means passing lots of peer reviewed tests with flying colours).
In what way, exactly?
Gosh, what have we here....
Oh, it's this [i]again![/i]
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Only one thing causes a war , greed!
Check out the British, invented concentration camps during the Anglo-Boer war. Not Germans or Japanese.
Diamonds and gold discovered in Transvaal and Orange Free State.
Lord Kitchens decides I'll have some of that, 'In the name of queen Victoria' of course.
So you go to war!
I think if you want to name and shame a few of the bad guys you should look a little closer to home.
Also remember who who abolished the slave trade, that was a nasty narrow minded religious man who 'Found
God'!
Darwin died alone.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Faith and belief in the super natural is a legacy brain state of the more evolutionary basic human mind.
I'm assuming observer status... 😉
Ah excellent. It appears CatholicDefense has published a reply to the original comic:
From the Catholic article:
I’ve already gotten two e-mails from people who had friends share it, [b]and who wanted to know how to respond.[/b]
You couldn't make it up, could you? Don't people know how to think for themselves?
