[Closed] Rascism - gone just a little too far

Quick, email Richard Littlejohn and let him know.

BTW I'm impressed that a school organises field trips for children as young as 5. What is he studying ?

I hope he's making a complaint.

I'll call b-s without any proof- why would the school exclude a 5 year old from 'field trips' - surely at most there'd be re- education, not a punishment?

It doesn't matter what he called the boy (my twin ****stani friends used to describe their mother as a '****' because she wore traditional dress and wasn't very westernised, unlike them), there has to be racist INTENT. Fight it.

Apart from this being completely ridiculous, people seem to have forgotten the meaning of the word "racism".

Racism is deliberate prejudice based on race or skin colour. Even if there had been any sort of intent based on the lad's skin colour, it's merely petty name-calling, sticks and stones.

No wonder we're breeding a nation of namby-pamby bedwetters.

No wonder we're breeding a nation of namby-pamby bedwetters.

You've noticed this too ?

Ernie - Whatever they teach at primary school I'd guess.

Vinny - Not B-S I'm afraid however its not my child so can't offer anything other than the trip was to Hackney city farm to learn about animals.

I guess I'm just a little saddened that the innocence of youth can be taken and twisted.

Whereas using a medical condition that many children suffer with (enuresis) as an insult is completely acceptable, classy.

See, I'd have thought that there would have had to be processes in place to manage kids after any undesirable behaviour, even if the school had misinterpreted the behaviour, rather than just institute a draconian punishment. Especially at 5 years old. I find it difficult to believe that the school has done this to a child not much more than a baby for a 'first offence' , though I agree with all the comments that its an innocent remark. If that makes sense.

Vinny - i agree, tbh i hadn't thought about the schools punishment stance any further than what they had done was incorrect.

Half a story there I fear. I would suspect your colleague's son might be a little difficult to manage hence them not wanting him on the trip. Somehow the reporting of this incident got put in the mix and your colleague has somehow linked this incident and the banning. It could even be what he thought he heard but I'm guessing it's not what was said.

joolsburger - Member

Whereas using a medical condition that many children suffer with (enuresis) as an insult is completely acceptable, classy.

That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen on this forum! 🙄

That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen on this forum!

+1 🙂

I'm glad i am not the only one who read that and thought "you've got to be kidding me!"

EDIT: in fact, i'm guessing it was a cleverly crafted joke.

Convert +1

I suspect that the OP has ony been given a very selective acccount because his workmate's child is absolutely perfect and would never disrupt a class [/rolly eyes]

No wonder we're breeding a nation of namby-pamby bedwetters.

What we're actually breeding is a nation of people who continually dismiss the entire country based on whatever negative attributes are at the front of their mind at the time.

Whingers, you might call them 🙂

What we're actually breeding is a nation of people who continually dismiss the entire country based on whatever negative attributes are at the front of their mind at the time.

that's one heck of a lot of dismissiveness if you are a Daily Mail reader!

No wonder we're breeding a nation of namby-pamby bedwetters.

Although I agree its an oversensitivity, you have seen whats happening with Football haven't you - thats right, monkey chants and banana's thrown. Not only that, it was used as an open insult many years ago

Perhaps viewing it from the other side makes it worse, especially with that in the context.

I find it hard to believe a 5yo was deliberatly racist - more like the Teacher fell foul of where to draw a line and teach a lesson. Probably a middle class white teacher with limited understanding of the black culture, or a black teacher with a history of recieved racsim I expect.

Perhaps the teacher feared the consequences if she did nothing, and was later asked about the incident.

Half a story there I fear. I would suspect your colleague's son might be a little difficult to manage hence them not wanting him on the trip. Somehow the reporting of this incident got put in the mix and your colleague has somehow linked this incident and the banning. It could even be what he thought he heard but I'm guessing it's not what was said.

That's quite a negative snap judgement isn't it?

I suspect that the OP has ony been given a very selective acccount because his workmate's child is absolutely perfect and would never disrupt a class [/rolly eyes]

She doesn't come across like that so i have no reason to suspect otherwise.

Racism is deliberate prejudice based on race or skin colour. Even if there had been any sort of intent based on the lad's skin colour, it's merely petty name-calling, sticks and stones.

You define racism as prejudice based on skin colour but then tell me if it was based on his skin colour its just name calling 😕

I am as confused as you seem to be

I dont think there was any racism in this case though I doubt the story is true

you have seen whats happening with Football haven't you

you are the 1980's and Frankie says relax

I don't think there was any racism in this case though I doubt the story is true

Genuinely interested, why wouldn't it be true?

That's quite a negative snap judgement isn't it?

Everything is a snap judgement when based on a third hand summary. You view it as negative because I came to a different conclusion to you. Tbh your (naive?) interpretation of the "facts" at face value as told by one side only is more negative than mine as it brands an organisation dysfunctional and overtly reactionary. Mine merely hints at a miscommunication. I guess it depends if your mindset is one of looking for controversy or seeking a rational explanation.

I find it hard to believe any teacher would react as you have said and that the school would support it.
I find it hard to believe a parent would not react to their child being branded racist for that and not complain
I find it hard to believe they would let them miss out on education for this rather than do something to address the "racism" -the punishment does not fit the crime nor lead to changed attitudes

Of course I dont know whether it is true or not but it seems to tick all the PC gone mad boxes and most of these stories turn out to be myths so I am naturally doubtful

Write to the headmaster requesting a meeting and also send a copy to the governors. Also inform them that you are thinking about taking legal advice on the matter.

Write to the headmaster requesting a meeting and also send a copy to the governors. Also inform them that you are thinking about taking legal advice on the matter.

I'm sure this would give all the recipients a bit of a giggle. 🙂

You define racism as prejudice based on skin colour but then tell me if it was based on his skin colour its just name calling

Calling names is not the same as discriminating. That's the salient point that society seems to have lost sight of. I'm certainly not saying it's right, but calling names and even making monkey chants or throwing bananas isn't "discriminatory". It's unacceptable, crass and ignorant, but that's not the type of action that prevents people from achieving things and enjoying equal privilege to other.

Nowadays we see footballers storming off the pitch in tears because someone has made a 'racist' remark. Well I'm sorry, but man the **** up! Every other person on the pitch has to tolerate every possible insult, having their wives' integrity questioned, their parentage, hair colour... But as soon as someone mentions skin colour, they burst into tears?? It's ridiculous. This isn't some sort of repression, it's sticks and stones!

Sadly, the only real 'racism' that's at play in these sort of situations is that people with a different skin colour have an unvanquishable weapon in that they can accuse people of racism, whereas if say a ginger-haired person, for example, suffers abuse about their appearance, they have no recourse whatsoever.

Tbh your (naive?) interpretation of the "facts" at face value as told by one side only is more negative than mine as it brands an organisation dysfunctional and overtly reactionary.

I think that's what has left me a bit upset about it. As I've said above i have no reason to doubt what the lady has said, i feel i know her well enough to make an informed judgement. Unfortunately without uploading a full transcript of the conversation you wouldn't be able to fully agree/disagree. 😀

Junkyard - The parents have complained. The rest of your points are, as above what makes it upsetting.

+1 shibboleth
A white lad was beaten up by a group of Asian lads in the local park where I live, it made the local news, they had called him white trash and white s*hite, stabbed him in the hand with a screwdriver and smashed him in the head with a brick. According to the police this does not constitute a racist attack. If a group of white lads had done this to an Asian lad would it of been classed as racist by the police? You bet your bottom dollar it would. There is an inherent hypocrisy in the whole racism argument in that you can only be racist if your white. Even the black on Asian violence that goes on round here isn't classed as racist. Bollocks to the lot of 'em.

I think that's what has left me a bit upset about it. As I've said above [b]i have no reason to doubt what the lady has said[/b], i feel i know her well enough to make an informed judgement. Unfortunately without uploading a full transcript of the conversation you wouldn't be able to fully agree/disagree.

Highlighted is the crucial bit. I'll declare my hand - I'm a teacher with 15 years experience and now enough seniority to spend lots of time with parents either discussing their kids or dealing with the aftermath of them having spoken to other colleagues about their kids. One recurring theme is that parents often get completely the wrong end of the stick, hearing what they want to hear not what they are being told. Rational and intelligent adults frequently seem to loose their common sense when dealing with aspects about their child.

I've no doubt your colleague thinks she heard what she heard as the explanation for her son's exclusion from the trip, or indeed neither do I think that she is [u]deliberately[/u] lying to you; just a healthy dollop of scepticism that the facts as presented are the complete picture.

Bollocks to the lot of 'em

Bollocks to the lot of 'em

Based on the colour of their skin? Careful now...

Based on them being doylems, i'm including the police in that statement (even the white ones! 😉 )

Convert - Fair enough, i can understand your opinion, especially the bit about parents losing all rational explanation when dealing with their children. I've got a few friends in the teaching profession who would probably agree with you.

Give the school some reverse racism back:

"How dare you liken a black child to a monkey, what a backward stance for a school! I can't believe you would think a black person has a resemblance to a monkey, SHAME ON THIS SCHOOL."

Hoho, plyphon, I bet that would make them squirm. It does all seem fairly innocent and the teacher has thrown her own spin on what the lad said.
I think from what has been said the lad called him a monkey because he was swinging about like a, oh, what's the word, can't quite think of it, oh aye...monkey! He's not gonna be swinging about like a Lion or Peter Stringfellow. Everyone refers to kids as little monkeys when they are acting like little monkeys, my niece thinks she's called monkey cause we always call her a cheeky monkey. When she's climbing the tree we call her a monkey. Political Correctness gone mad! (can't believe that's not been said yet.)

I'm impressed that a school organises field trips for children as young as 5

You don't have kids do you Ernie? I think that's fairly standard practice for schools nowadays.

I have to admit I also suspect that the mother isn't telling the whole story - possibly she doesn't have the full story herself.

ALL the local schools criteria (theres 9 criteria):

1. Must be Catholic
2. Must be baptised Catholic
3. Must be a member of the Catholic church

I think 8/9 is other criteria's may be considered

I think you're missing some context to your post, hora, that or you've posted on the wrong thread...

See, I'd have thought that there would have had to be processes in place to manage kids after any undesirable behaviour, even if the school had misinterpreted the behaviour, rather than just institute a draconian punishment

It is this passive racism which is the worst. Terminology such as this is reductionist and makes assumptions that all peopel of any one country or race are 'all the same'. The people of Draconia are as diverse and open minded as anyone else. Yet this contstant tarring of people with the same brush leads people that believe that there are all like minded and insist on harsh punishment for misdemeanors. The stereotype is perpetuated by the characterisation in fiction of people like Draco Malfoy as evil and conniving. Yet this form of racism is overlloked, just because they aren't seen as a 'race' in the conventional sense.

The upside is that few people want to go there on holiday and the beaches are quiet and warm.

I think you're missing some context to your post, hora, that or you've posted on the wrong thread...

Never noticed hora's posts before?

Burchy1 - Member

Genuinely interested, why wouldn't it be true?

Because in general, when you hear something and think "That's incredible", it's quite useful to remember what "incredible" means.

FWIW a colleague of mine quite often had similar stories about her wonderful son and about how he couldn't do right for doing wrong, and the teachers all had it in for him, and the world had gone mad. Now it's the police that all have it in for him, but he's still never done anything wrong.

FWIW a colleague of mine quite often had similar stories about her wonderful son and about how he couldn't do right for doing wrong, and the teachers all had it in for him, and the world had gone mad. Now it's the police that all have it in for him, but he's still never done anything wrong.

Black fella is he?

[s]the monkey[/s] Hora has got hold of a typewriter.

Calling names is not the same as discriminating. That's the salient point that society seems to have lost sight of. I'm certainly not saying it's right, but calling names and even making monkey chants or throwing bananas isn't "discriminatory". It's unacceptable, crass and ignorant, but that's not the type of action that prevents people from achieving things and enjoying equal privilege to other.

Nowadays we see footballers storming off the pitch in tears because someone has made a 'racist' remark. Well I'm sorry, but man the **** up! Every other person on the pitch has to tolerate every possible insult, having their wives' integrity questioned, their parentage, hair colour... But as soon as someone mentions skin colour, they burst into tears?? It's ridiculous. This isn't some sort of repression, it's sticks and stones!

Sadly, the only real 'racism' that's at play in these sort of situations is that people with a different skin colour have an unvanquishable weapon in that they can accuse people of racism, whereas if say a ginger-haired person, for example, suffers abuse about their appearance, they have no recourse whatsoever.

Because [b]in general[/b], when you hear something and think "That's incredible", it's quite useful to remember what "incredible" means.

In general I agree, but its not always untrue. Look at Kona they've actually made a nice looking bike for once 😀

I often don't agree with things Shibby posts, but, dammit, he's spot-on with this!

I knew people would come round to my way of thinking eventually!

On a serious note, there's a sense of sticking ones head above the parapet when you voice an opinion like that, it shouldn't be the case at all.

The lefty PC brigade have made far too much ground and now we're afraid to have opinions for fear of being labelled racist. The problem is that real racism is now festering beneath the surface because people are afraid to discuss problems with certain cultures and sectors of society.

The lefty PC brigade have made far too much ground

Yeah it was much better in the 70s when you could be racist openly without fear of disapproval.

Yeah it was much better in the 70s when you could be racist openly without fear of disapproval.

Point proven. 🙄

How so? I'm very intrigued to know exactly how far we should reverse the ground made by the 'lefty PC brigade'.

we're afraid to have opinions for fear of being labelled racist.

I'm not 'afraid to have opinions for fear of being labelled racist'. Interesting that you are.

I'm not even going to waste my time Grum. Read my earlier post. It's quite clear that I'm not racist and don't condone racism.

My point is that there's always some PC whinger (in this case it's you) ready to jump on every sentence said on the subject, edit it until it could possibly, in poor light and a prevailing wind, be considered racist by another over-sensitive PC whinger.

Where have I accused you of racism? I tell you what's even more prevalent than 'PC whingers' - people who cry 'PC gone mad' conspiracy at the drop of a hat when they don't actually have a decent argument.

the kind of people that say "political correctness gone mad" are usually using that phrase as a kind of cover action to attack minorities or people that they disagree with. I'm of an age that I can see what a difference political correctness has made. When I was four years old, my grandfather drove me around Birmingham, where the Tories had just fought an election campaign saying, "if you want a **** for a neighbour, vote Labour," and he drove me around saying, "this is where all the ****s and the coons and the jungle bunnies live." And I remember being at school in the early 80s and my teacher, when he read the register, instead of saying the name of the one asian boy in the class, he would say, "is the black spot in," right? And all these things have gradually been eroded by political correctness, which seems to me to be about an institutionalised politeness at its worst. And if there is some fallout from this, which means that someone in an office might get in trouble one day for saying something that someone was a bit unsure about because they couldn't decide whether it was sexist or homophobic or racist, it's a small price to pay for the massive benefits and improvements in the quality of life for millions of people that political correctness has made. It's a complete lie that allows the right, which basically controls media now, and international politics, to make people on the left who are concerned about the way people are represented look like killjoys. And I'm sick, I'm really sick-- 84% of you in this room that have agreed with this phrase, you're like those people who turn around and go, "you know who the most oppressed minorities in Britain are? White, middle-class men." You're a bunch of idiots.

Where have I accused you of racism?

Erm... How about...

I'm not 'afraid to have opinions for fear of being labelled racist'. Interesting that you are.

Slightly irrelevant in this heated debate, but...

convert:
I'm a teacher with 15 years experience... Rational and intelligent adults frequently seem to [b]loose[/b] their common sense...

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-loose-is-the-opposite-of-tight ]Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh![/url]

😆

Not exactly accusing you of racism, it does make me wonder though.

I find that offensive and you've overstepped the mark.

Shibboleth - Member
My point is that there's always some PC whinger (in this case it's you) ready to jump on every sentence said on the subject, edit it until it could possibly, in poor light and a prevailing wind, be considered racist by another over-sensitive PC whinger.

Whinging about whingers, brilliant. Plus what a load of cobblers.

Shibboleth - Member

"Not exactly accusing you of racism, it does make me wonder though."

I find that offensive and you've overstepped the mark.

Bit over-senstive aren't you?

Lifer, are you whinging about people whinging about whingers?

Oh I hope so!

I find that offensive and you've overstepped the mark.

Oh dear, if only you were from an ethnic minority, then you could accuse me of being racist and get me into trouble eh? 😉

Grum, if you were any more intelligent, you might be able to see when you're being used to prove a point. 🙄

You really haven't proved bugger all - go on, tell us what you think you've proved?

Instead of responding to what you imagine people have said in the lefty conspiracy in your head, try responding to what's actually been posted, or perhaps answering some of my questions.

FWIW I don't see your comments about footballers as racist, possibly just a bit insensitive. Which is strange given how incredibly over-sensitive you seem to be about yourself.

You really haven't proved bugger all - go on, tell us what you think you've proved?

That there's always some hand-wringing PC whinger ready to pounce on anything and accuse someone of racism - either directly or inferred - when they're clearly not.

It also proves how difficult it is for someone like me to seek redress when accused of racism by someone like you. If I was a different race, and I was a victim of racism, I would have the full weight of the law, and probably the support of the moderators behind me.

As it is, whingers like you can accuse me of a quite serious offense without any fear of reprisal.

You forgot to take heed of this bit:

Instead of responding to what you imagine people have said in the lefty conspiracy in your head, try responding to what's actually been posted

And this is really quite hilariously ironic - this is meant to be a joke right?

It also proves how difficult it is for someone like me to seek redress when accused of racism by someone like you. If I was a different race, and I was a victim of racism, I would have the full weight of the law, and probably the support of the moderators behind me.

So when footballers get upset by monkey chants and vile racist abuse, they're being oversensitive and should just MTFU, but you think it's reasonable to throw a hissy fit when I wondered why you were so scared of being branded a racist?

Back on topic, if what transpired is as stated you should complain to the principal, the board of governers, and if that doesn't work, your county councillor. And the local media would love a story like this...

... if there is some fallout from this, which means that someone in an office might get in trouble one day for saying something that someone was a bit unsure about because they couldn't decide whether it was sexist or homophobic or racist..

A five year old kid used he word "monkey" to his mate on the "monkey bars".
Stewart lee's whinge-rant is irrelevant.

A five year old kid used he word "monkey" to his mate on the "monkey bars".

According to a third hand account.

Not saying it's necessarily untrue, but it has all the hallmarks of a classic tabloid 'PC gone mad' tale that later turns out to be a load of bollocks.

Shibboleth - Member

That there's always some hand-wringing PC whinger ready to pounce on anything and accuse someone of racism - either directly or inferred - when they're clearly not.

It also proves how difficult it is for someone like me to seek redress when accused of racism by someone like you. If I was a different race, and I was a victim of racism, I would have the full weight of the law, and probably the support of the moderators behind me.

As it is, whingers like you can accuse me of a quite serious offense without any fear of reprisal.

Hand wringing and more whinging about whingers in this post, without a hint of ironing. Well played sir.

And if that fails, change schools!

Read my earlier post. It's quite clear that I'm not racist

well, if you're not a racist shibboleth why write this ?

the only real 'racism' that's at play in these sort of situations is that people with a different skin colour have an unvanquishable weapon in that they can accuse people of racism

see you're blaming 'people with a different skin colour' for crying racism. well what colour skin colour did the teacher have ? because they're the one calling racism in this case. and when you say 'different' skin colour, who exactly has 'different' skin colour and by definition who has 'default' skin colour ?

i don't see it as any coincidence that the next most moronic post on the thread happened to +1 your comments

i'm sure you're both regular callers on talksport phone-ins when you can get someone to work the phones for you.

loum - Member
A five year old kid [b]allegedly[/b] used he word "monkey" to his [b]alleged[/b] mate on the "monkey bars".
Stewart lee's whinge-rant is irrelevant.

To that yes, but not to what Grum posted in in relation to.

According to a third hand account.

edit:
just noticed your stealth edit.
Fair enough. Not a fan of tabloid hysteria too, but I'd rather give the op (and his colleague's kid) a benefit of the doubt. No reason to disbelieve yet.

edit 2.
your posts keep growing? 🙂

Unless you know different, and would like to share the facts, it's still the best account we have.

Agreed, but still - it's not much better evidence than 'this bloke down the pub told me that his sister-in-law's best mate heard from their cousin that......'.

It also contains inconsistencies like:

'pretty much branded a racist'
'the teacher pulled him up and called him a racist...'

Well which one is it? Did he 'call him a racist', or 'pretty much brand him a racist'? Crucial difference there isn't there.

Because of that, personally I won't be getting in a froth about it - sorry to disappoint

I was in a supermarket yesterday and the women behind the dli counter was muslim all hujabbed up. She took ages to sort out some ham for me, then gave me lees than I asked for because she said she had to open another packet. So what I asked for a specific amount not what you want to give me. If she don't like touching pork then why work there? Can't say anthing though because people will call you a racist.

So what I asked for a specific amount not what you want to give me. If she don't like touching pork then why work there?

Maybe she was just lazy?

I was in a supermarket yesterday and the women behind the dli counter was muslim all hujabbed up. She took ages to sort out some ham for me, then gave me lees than I asked for because she said she had to open another packet. So what I asked for a specific amount not what you want to give me. If she don't like touching pork then why work there? Can't say anthing though because people will call you a racist.

What's the relevance of her being Muslim to this story? Did she tell you she didn't want to open another packet because she's a Muslim? Seems odd she would serve you ham at all if she was that fussed about it.

Can't say anthing though

What would you like to have said?

Excuse but I asked for x amount of meat can I have x amount please as that is how much i want

Yes you would never get away with saying that. PC gone mad innit

Persoanlly I think she knew it would annoy you and it was personal- someone you know in disguise is following you to do little things like that just to ruin your day...I bet a car gets in your way on the way home...dont say I have not warned you ...be careful

Seems odd she would serve you ham at all if she was that fussed about it

This

I find it very hard to believe anybody with enough religious conviction to wear a hijab would be working on a deli counter.

Perhaps Infestation is demonstrating to the OP how stories can be skewed very easily if you leave out the odd pertinent detail 8)