[Closed] Question for Tory voters

Who? Boris is next in line.

Fair point 5th. This week's New Statesman has a front cover headline "The Dream Ticket?" above a drawing of Boris and Gove outside No.10. On closer inspection it has Gove as Chancellor.

Anyone who declares themselves an admirer of Tony Blair loses my vote by default.

Having said that, I've never voted Tory, nor do I have any motivation for doing so.

Well if it is not him then it will be others. Politicians are more or less the same all over except perhaps in a different party. No such thing as pleasing everyone ...

headfirst - Member

Fair point 5th. This week's New Statesman has a front cover headline "The Dream Ticket?" above a drawing of Boris and Gove outside No.10

Too much cheese before bedtime, if you're having dreams like that.

I would be delighted for Gove to be the new Conservative Leader, in the same way I was when IDS was. 😆
...and in the same way I like to imagine that David Cameron kneels down before bed every night and thanks the lord for Ed Milliband.

He's my MP. A jolly good egg 🙂

OK, I'm not a Tory Voter, but I can't see Gove ever being leader (other than a stop gap in opposition like IDS). Boris could easily make PM and could garner some cross party support as he has a personality bigger than the conservative brand.

This week's New Statesman has a front cover headline "The Dream Ticket?" above a drawing of Boris and Gove outside No.10.

I'm glad my dreams don't look like that.

[img] [/img]

Well I'm so worried about Gove I'm going to put money on him being PM so if it happens at least there's an upside. Mate of mine put money on Boris, only got 3:1...

I think the New Statesman has been eating too much cheese before bedtime!

Or they're gatecrashing Ed Millibands dreams

You need to decide why you are picking a leader. Is it because they will lead the party in the direction you desire or because they will lead the party to victory. Boris has a good chance at the latter, I'm not sure Gove does. If you want an ideological leader then the two more obvious candidates have been leader but not successfully, Hague and IDS - neither have the leadership and appeal to win a general election though.

Before he lost the leadership bid I saw the other milliband as the obvious prime minister in waiting. The Tories are going to struggle in the next election and I'm sure they would have lost to David but to Ed I'm not so sure.

as a simple point all teachers hate the education minister, it's in the job description along with 3 months paid holiday and cheap ski trips 🙂

next leader no, but then I left the country. Perhaps Tony could come back for a side swap

Had never voted tory in my life until the excesses of Blair and Brown forced it on me last go round, got that right then didn't I? - Not.

Gove, tbh one of the better of a bad bunch, education badly needed a shake up, but he aint going to help them win, they didn't make it last time and next time they'll be in a world of worse problems.

I used to vote lib dem can't see that happening again so it will be a wasted Green vote then, at least we got one in last time, if only the Greens would position themselves as the just left of centre party of choice they could make some considerable gains, but they like UKIP have got more than their fair share of nutters (including an ex wife of mine)muddying their cause.

Gove, tbh one of the better of a bad bunch, education badly needed a shake up

😕

The man is batshit insane.

Sometimes I'm jealous of him though. The world must look lovely viewed through the prism of a 50's grammar school utopia that never actually existed. Do you not sometimes find yourself yearning for such simplicity?

education badly needed a shake up

Really? I tell you what Education needs, and thats what Alex Ferguson gave Man U..... a long period of stability under someone who actually knows what they are talking about, and who will go out to bat for what is right, as opposed to what grabs cheap headlines in the Mail.

To continue the analogy, until it is taken off the political football pitch and dealt with sensibly and rationally it will only deteriorate, somewhat like a matchball that is in perpetual use.

education badly needed a shake up

Gove, tbh one of the better of a bad bunch, education badly needed a shake up

When I have decided which one offends me the most I will get back to you

😆

I'm going with the first one

The Utd analogy works just as well the other way - Fergie needed to end decades of underachievement when he arrived, and harder still, get Bryan Robson and Paul McGrath off the ale. Big shake up was needed at the time.

I think the era where a guy like Gove could be PM has passed. He's not really equipped for the dog and pony show of modern mass media primeministerial politics. He could well go on to shape the ideology of the Tory party, though, as things stand at the moment. So he could be the defacto party leader in that sense.

Gove is a very effective minister as he get stuff done, not sure how effective he would be in the leadership role, my guess is less so as he would not be able to leave his minsters to get on with their job.

He may well get stuff done. Its the stuff he's getting done that's the problem.

An education system based upon "they did this in the 50's, before all this liberal nonsense ruined the country, so lets go back and do that again" is a slightly dubious way, to say the least, of equipping our offspring for the challenges of the 21st century

grahamg - Member

The man is batshit insane.

Yeah, that pretty much covers it! Christ only knows how much havoc he'd wreak, actually 'getting things done' while running the country

*shudders*

what stuff does he get done - he has had more climbs downs than any other minister, he speaks first and thinks later
He has no charm as well so how on earth could he lead the nation?

mefty - Member

Gove is a very effective minister as he get stuff done

There's a monkey in my local zoo that's an absolute master at throwing his own poo. Perhaps we should make him a minister too, he gets loads done.

allthepies - Member

He's my MP. A [s]jolly good egg[/s] complete and total twunt in every regard that got parachuted in to a safe seat so he could cosy up with CMD

FTFY. My MP too. 👿

education badly needed a shake up

How exactly? Genuine question, I'd really appreciate your evidence and guidance on what approach should be taken. I'd also like you to qualify the above with relevant experience of the education system. Ex-pupil status does not count.

Even the thought of Gove makes my piss boil.

The point being that if you are a minister, you job is to implement your policy, whether you agree or not with that policy, you should still be able to evaluate someone's effectiveness dispassionately. He has certainly changed his mind on a couple of things, but personally I think this is a good sign and I don't share the media's fixation with U-turns.

Many schools can ignore the National Curriculum.

Harold Shipman was a highly effective murderer. Not sure what your point is really.

mefty - Member

The point being that if you are a minister, you job is to implement your policy, whether you agree or not with that policy, you should still be able to evaluate someone's effectiveness dispassionately

If the entire job was just implementation, perhaps- but they set the policies they implement. It's no use being highly effective at implementing a shit plan, any more than it's any use coming up with great plans you'll never implement - we've got loads of people like this in my company and I'd like to kill them all with a brick in a sock.

He has certainly changed his mind on a couple of things, but personally I think this is a good sign and I don't share the media's fixation with U-turns.

It seems to me that what he does is announce any thought that pops into his head as a policy, without consulting anyone at all about whether its either possible, or remotely desirable

I'm sure he couldn't care less about the latter, as its his idea, and therefore bound to be utter genius. But when people who are far more knowledgeable than him point out the practical problems, he backtracks

I know. As from tomorrow afternoon, lets scrap GCSE's!!! I don't know what to replace them with, but whatever I decide is bound to be the greatest step forward the world of education has ever witnessed. Make it so, underlings!!!!

The bloke is an absolute idiot, who seems to think he's the cleverest person ever to walk the earth. A dangerous combination, if ever there was one

He has certainly changed his mind on a couple of things, but personally I think this is a good sign and I don't share the media's fixation with U-turns.

It would be better if he say consulted first and then came up with actual workable plans rather than launch the ECB then have to realise it was crap.

U turns are not always bad but having to do lots is

Many of his policies seem pretty sensible to me.

He has made it much easier to become an academy school and has created a framework for free schools, both of which give more influence to teachers over the running of schools, which is surely leaving stuff to experts.

He is moving teacher training to Teching Schools which is consistent with how most professions train their staff.

OI! Bugger off JY! Coming on here so we end up in broad agreement with each other

Be off with you back to the Pikey thread so we can start childishly bickering again!! 😉

He has made it much easier to become an academy school and has created a framework for free schools, both of which give more influence to [s]teachers[/s] [i]the private education providers he'll be bringing in to run them in a couple of years[/i], over the running of schools, which is surely leaving stuff to experts.

FTFY

[img] [/img]

His attack on "Mr Men history teaching" was utterly unfounded and pretty well savaged by the teacher he targeted: http://www.activehistory.co.uk/gove.php

As above, he's great at making statements which grab headlines. Unfortunately ministers are supposed to come up with workable policies.

Be off with you back to the Pikey thread so we can start childishly bickering again!!

.....Pikey Thread ???? 😯

....... not yet closed????? 😯 😯

.........Where???? 😯

...........I want some of that!!! (my prejudices are getting dusty)

you'd think that educated people like teachers would be more open to change rather than moaning on and on. I enjoy the collective suffering of those that call themselves teachers. It's a sort of cathartic revenge on the incompetent, sadistic, wooly minded liberal idiots that passed themselves of as teachers when I was at school (it's a pathetic story). I'm not bitter oh no not at all. Anyway back to the Gove chappy, he is not trying hard enough. I think he should double the size of Ofsted and recruit UKip members into the role.

mefty - Member
Many of his policies seem pretty sensible to me.

......and does your carer know you're on the interent again?

mr gove has some very reasoned arguments and puts them across well.. what he does well is ask questions of service providers..in his case teachers.. they get paid well and some are poor some are good some are excellent some shouldnt be left alone with children.

when he starts the sackings i ll be happy

mt - do you get traumatised panic attacks when you see corduroy jackets with patches on the elbows? Or beards? 😀

mr gove has some very reasoned arguments and puts them across well.

Have you not been taking your medication again? You know what happens!

.....and does your carer know you're on the interent again?

What is your problem with the policies that I mentioned?

I think he should double the size of Ofsted

Ah, another well informed "expert" on the education system. Before you spout bullshit like that can I suggest you go and get some experience of teaching from their side of the desk and also get some idea of the artificial bollocks that is OFSTED. OFSTED bring very little to the table.

What is your problem with the policies that I mentioned?

He has made it much easier to become an academy school and has created a framework for free schools, both of which give more influence to teachers over the running of schools, which is surely leaving stuff to experts

Well, academies and free schools can employ people who aren't qualified as teachers - not sure how that's leaving it to the experts. And are you welcoming the advance of creationist schools his policies has encouraged?

The education secretary, Michael Gove, has approved three free schools run by groups with creationist views, including one with a document on its website declaring that it teaches "creation as a scientific theory".

Grindon Hall Christian school in Sunderland, a private school due to reopen in September with state funding, says on its website that it will present creationism as science and affirm the position that Christians believe God's creation of the world is "not just a theory but a fact".

Ministers have also approved a free school in Sevenoaks, Kent, that says on its website it will teach in RE classes that "God made the world", while a third free school, in Nottinghamshire, is a fresh proposal from a group initially turned down over creationism.

He's allowing more influence from idiots like Toby Young, who think the only problem with schooling in this country is not enough time spent on Latin and the Classics.

And while saying he wants to leave teachers free to teach he's introducing moronic revisionist meddling with the history curriculum.

Coyote, see you are a teacher without a humor alarm. I thought OFSTED was for failed teachers.

The education system might have needed a shake what it certainly didnt need was a massive **** up.

MT do you ever think that maybe these educated teachers may already have many of the answers which is why they moan so much?

some experience of teaching from [b][u]their[/b][/u] side of the desk

Kind of indicates that I am not actually a teacher.

Have you any experience of OFSTED?

And are you welcoming the advance of creationist schools his policies has encouraged?

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20547195 ]Seems not.[/url]

Well, academies and free schools can employ people who aren't qualified as teachers - not sure how that's leaving it to the experts.

Well presumably they will be employed by the head teacher so I think he/she will have the expertise to judge whether they are capable.

He's allowing more influence from idiots like Toby Young, who think the only problem with schooling in this country is not enough time spent on Latin and the Classics.

I'm not sure it is his only belief but the school which is very close to where I live is proving to be very popular.

just to pour petrol on the fire, I sincerely believe that the entire education system needs to change from nursery to university, but between the government, unions and teachers who have been arguing between themselves for the last 30 years i only feel its got worse and needs a complete overhaul( with the investment to do it)

Coyote If you telly your experience of OFsted I'll tell you mine.

I recently tried to research local schools using the Welsh equivalent of Ofsted. Total waste of time. The reports were utterly meaningless.

Best of a bad bunch sums it up nicely.

Imagine IDS or David Davies in charge.

Or Ed Miliband 😯

Now that is a scary prospect

Politics in the UK is totally screwed, how else do you explain a clown like Farage getting so much of the vote.

Choices in the next election amount to voting for bastards, liars or incompetents

"binners - Member
mt - do you get traumatised panic attacks when you see corduroy jackets with patches on the elbows? Or beards?"

Can't quite put my finger on which of those but a combination of them and some bloke trying to explain that we are all young gentlemen now and should behave like that, this while some "gentlemen" are setting fire to the desks. Such was life in the thickos class at Burnage High School. I suppose you could say he was being optimistic as a teacher. Wonder what he'd have thought of OFsted?

Binners am pleased to see that you saw the humor in my post.