[Closed] Question about stress at work...

I have been actively looking for work but there is not much in IT in Glasgow

If it's as grim as you describe and you're receiving no support from HR it's time to look further afield than where you happen to be now.

Its no good if you arent enjoying it chum. Try to find something else and TRY to leave your frustrations behind when you walk out the door each night. I used to be the same and ended up with shingles, that gave me a shake and I learnt to just leave work and switch off.

without trying to sound too much like a c*ck...............why the **** would you put yourself through this every day at work.
you obviously hate your job, so pack it in.
getting thrown on the sick with stress is just putting it off.
call it a day and get another job.

work to live mate, not the reverse.

If you've spoken with HR about stress and brought it to their intention I'm pretty sure they are supposed to do something about it (duty of care?). Next time try to take someone you trust along as a witness.

Speak with your doc to, although how people get signed off with stress is beyond me, I have had some real trouble over the years - feeling sick, IBS, sleeping tablets etc... but never got signed off. I don't think being signed off really helps, it just prolongs it, as you have to go back sometime.

Ultimately life is far to short for this type of crap. Do something else (very easy to say, I know)

Worked in a large hospital a few years ago,the woman manager, was run ragged by higher management,eventually she had enough after getting ill, and left.

One of the mentally ill patients, said to me, dont worry another mug will be along in a few days, seen it so many times.

Few days latter,another [s]mug[/s] manager started.

ton + 1

It ain't worth the trouble mate.

Please find a stress free job soon..

oh and if you seem to think youre so invaluable to the company, wht happens when you die, or get injured falling over your pay packet.

They just get someone else, leave before its to late, for you and your family.

JOIN A UNION! that is abuse

You and your employer are in breach of all sorts of law and regulation. Working time directive for one Check up on it - tuc site has good stuff on it.

They must find time for your holidays, you must have 11 hrs clear off between shifts, you must work less than 48 hrs a week averaged over 17 weeks. I hope you have been paid for all those hours

My advice. Join a union. Go back to HR and do not ask them - tell them you are under stress, you want your holiday entitlement, you are no longer going to work excessive hours, if they don't play ball you will be seeking constrructive dismissal claims and will be suing the arse off them

No job is worth getting ill for and yo will be far worse than you realise. It is making you seriously ill

Take the ****ers for everything you can - they are so out of order its been shuffled!

Leave. I've been in exactly the same position as you and leaving was the best thing I have ever done. It's hard to see just how bad it is until you get out.

No shame in going off with stress though, plus it'll make the company do something about the lack of staff providing your skills.

You could perhaps do them for constructive dismissal - it's not reasonable to have one person doing two people's jobs. That said, I've no idea how that sort of thing affects your employment chances later on. And they must be a large company given what you've said - I imagine they'll either have a watertight policy for screwing people over, or HR are acting outside of policy and you have them over a barrel.

Personally, I'd look to leave ASAP, preferably waiting until I had found a new job before quitting. However, I'd have quit the job months ago if I were you. Not worth it. That said, the new guy might get up to speed quickly, and give you a bit of breathing space.

Thats a right old word, 'stress', I know people deal with it in different ways & we all have different levels of it but I reckon your'e suffering from 'pressure of work' rather than 'stress'. I'm no expert & can only relate to my experiences.
I used to be self employed (owned a petrol station) Just as Esso announced their price watch campaign about 13-14 years ago, my wife decided she was leaving me & our 2 lads for my mate. As business went downhill faster than Steve Peat on speed due to Esso selling petrol far cheaper than I could buy it, my mum was diagnosed with terminal cancer, (thanks Esso & fags)She died a year later.
My bank (thanks Natwest) eventually foreclosed on me & I was forced to sell the business & home I had lived in for 28 years with a debt of 9K owing to a local fuel company (which took me 5 years to pay off) & i moved into a council house.
I eventually joined the prison service & have been a 'screw' for 7 years & now am the brunt of every prisoners complaint wether it be crap food, spends being wrong, DHL ****ing up AGAIN, medication not arriving for whatever reason etc etc etc.
Some people (not saying it's you, & I mean it) don't know the meaning of the word. (IMO.)

This is the sort of Issue unions are good at - join one and unionise the rest of your staff as well.

HR and others should get sacked - they are breaking the law and the company could be liable for large fines. You could be in line for many thousands as a payoff.

Best result - they pay you thousands to go away and shut up so the company does not get fined tens of thousands.

I got £7000 from an employer who was no where near as liable as that.

Get real professional advice. If HR won't play ball get signed off sick tomorrow

[i]I used to be self employed (owned a petrol station) Just as Esso an....[/i]

I'd have tooled up after all that and gone hunting.

Chapeau for not doing so.

Do a search on Google for 'depression test' - now. A few weeks off might well do you some good - perhaps with some happy pills. No shame in this - there's a lot of it about and your health and your family are worth more than anything else.

Been very close to where you are myself in the last few weeks and it ain't pretty.

Someone very close to me has also been there and any decent new employer should take stuff into consideration - and you wouldn't want to work for another bad employer would you?

You MUST get this sorted - as well as going to the doctor, get your CV onto Jobserve, Jobsite, Monster, PlanetRecruit, CWJobs, Computing Careers, Huxley, Matchtech, IT Talent Direct etc etc.

A complete breakdown won't help you, your family or your job prospects, so do it NOW, please. There IS something on the other side of the wire - believe in yourself, don't let this affect your self esteem and it WILL be fine!

Email me on vdub1992@hotmail.co.uk if you want web addresses for the above sites. Dinner calls, but I'll check my emails in a bit to see if you have emailed me.

Hope this helps.

Julian

Oh - and yo could well have a personal injury claim as well - this is not fanciful its real. Your work has made you ill and they knew about it and did nothing

Play it right you could get tens of thousands of pounds.

Its one of the most outrageous abuses of staff I have heard of. I'd love to take it on as a union rep. Such fun to have such a strong case

Document all interactions with your boss and HR write down what you can remember of previous ones and take good notes of all future ones

Do a search on Google for 'depression test' - now. A few weeks off might well do you some good - perhaps with some happy pills. No shame in this - there's a lot of it about and your health and your family are worth more than anything else.

I'm of entirely the opposite persuasion on this subject. The sad fact is that any kind of mental health issue on your record can still lead to negative consequences. Personally I'd only ever go down that route if I was properly depressed without a reason. The OP's situation is a horrible one, and there'd be something wrong with him if he weren't down in the dumps about it.

To me, giving someone in that situation anti-depressants is like giving a down jacket to a bloke stood in a meat locker, rather than just taking him out of the chiller. Remove the cause of the problem, don't just mess with the symptoms.

I can totally sympathise with you fella,I went through something similar fairly recently after a long term back injury,

I would say your health and your family are the only thing that really matters,I think its very important to talk things through, but don't dismiss,or talk yourself out of all options or opportunities.

There's no doubt your on a great salary, but quality of life is important too,(THREE times out on the bike ffs!)creating that work lifestyle balance is the key,and maybe a career/job change could be a way forward.

hth, and heres wishing you all the best. 😉

With my personal experience of this type of thing I wouldn't put any hopes on unions or big pay outs. Sorry TJ.

Very very few people actually prove this stuff and in the mean time trying to prove it can cause you even more pain / stress / grief doing even more damage.

The only person who can sort it properly is you and your family, no one else really has your best interests at heart.

DT - Its such a clear and obvious case that a settlement is very possible.

You are right that going for a payout can be stressful - thats why the best outcome usually is " here is some money and a reference to shut up and go away"

I have been there and done it. I have 7 months off work with full pay and a £7000 oayout for far less than the OP has had ( incompetent HR as well 🙂 )

dmiller - feel free to e mail me off list if you want further advice. Do not quit yet.

Play it right you could get tens of thousands of pounds

so.. moneys is the soloution? 🙄

Not being funny but it sounds like they are in a worse situation than you they have no 1 in-line who knows what there doing by the sounds of it. Your expected to show the other guy what to do right?

If it was me i would be telling them what i was doing If i was you mate i would go out with the extra money i assume you have earned from all the other time and go and book a 2 week holiday with the family.

Take a copy of the holiday dates to HR hand it to them and say ill be off those dates and walk out.

What can they do fire you? for what? there only going to leave themselves short on staff who have no clue what to do then there buckle under pressure and they will have no 1 😀

Gacvgas - no - but its better to walk away from a crap job with money that to walk away with nothing.

Mate,

I echo what ton and many others have said.

Just over a year ago I was working in a highly pressurized environment that had a high attrition rate amongst colleagues. I’d managed to survive in this particular department for six and a half years where many other capable individuals lasted half this time. In retrospect, whilst I wasn’t sneering, I was very dismissive of those that couldn’t handle it anymore through stress because they often became task avoidant and ducked jobs leaving it to the rest of a small team to sort out their cases. They were seen as a burden and imposition to us. This view was soon to change.

It wasn’t until I exhibited many of the symptoms of stress (which I had recognized in the aforementioned) that I thought ‘hold on, this is happening to me – f*ck’. I suffered from colds, tonsillitis, lethargy, I couldn’t sleep and my personality had changed. I’d become very short tempered and critical of others. It reached a point where I approached my first line manager and requested an immediate move. My ego took a knock when I went to a department with considerably less kudos than the other but it was one of the best moves I made in my career. I felt far less stress, my personal relationships improved and it enabled me to concentrate on my promotion exams that I went on to pass. I accept I was fortunate in the sense I had an understanding employer, unlike your own by the sound of it.

I know my circumstances were different to yours but you’ve come to a similar crossroad. On occasions people just reach a point in their jobs/careers where they must take stock of things and re-evaluate what’s important. Stress can be massively deleterious to mind and body and casts many into an early grave each year one way or another. Divorces and alcoholism are synonymous with my line of work.

My advice to you would be to get out or at least start paving the way for another job change. I appreciate that when you have responsibilities and bills to pay that might be a tough pill to swallow and easier said than done but in my experience stress doesn’t just go away and you either have the personality to leave these feelings at work or you don’t. Personally I wasn’t able to and consequently it impacted on my private life resulting in nights where I would only sleep three to four hours and much of this was fractured.

One day you wake up and know, intrinsically know that this can’t go on anymore. Only you will be aware if you’ve reached that point.

I’d banish all thoughts of litigation with work if you have any. You will embroil yourself in further negativity. Move on.

All the best.

TJ urges litigation shock! horror! 😉

If you litigate you will be like kryptonite to future employers. You have to remember that the situation you are in is equally of your doing, you have not nipped it in the bud, you have let it get too far, you have let them walk over you, only you can fix it.

I am not saying it is not stressful, I am sure it is, but you have to take a stand. Fire some ****s into them! What's the worst that can happen?

Repeat after me, 'Your job is not your life.'

That sounds bad mate, unsustainable. You must be on serious money to put up with that? Your post makes it sound like you're under siege - you need to take back control, obviously more easily said than done (although I'd start by telling the guy getting in your face to f_ck off and make me a cup of tea).

On the one hand it sounds like you're doing an important job for the organization, but given that your line is reneging on an agreed pay rise, plus HR basically laughing at you, makes it difficult to know how much weight you can throw around.

You could try going down the union route - trying to get some traction there in a completely non-unionised workplace strikes me as a tall order. Management / HR are clearly supremely untroubled by union action given your description, but it could be worth a shot.

Finally, no IT jobs in Glasgow? Come on with that man, there has to be alternatives. Are your skills that specialised?

This may be useful:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_money/employment/faq_index_employment/faq_employment_under_stress_at_work.htm

HTH

Good luck!

I left a job in January due to stress, they moved me to a different unit but i wasn't happy working for the company after my previous experience had tainted my view of the managment and there desicions. Working for that company and not 'nipping it in the bud' as Torminalis says, nearly destroyed my relationship with my partner. It was an extremley hard desicion and one that will stay with my for the rest of my life as the best thing to do at the time. I told myself everyday i was riding into work that i just need to man the **** up and get on with things, this only prolonged the inavitable. although i'm not still fully back on my feet, i'm so much happier not working 70+ hours a week and i've recently got back into all the things i loved before i had the job. It does all feel like a waste of time but ultimatly the experience has made me stronger and more wise to situations like this. Especially repressing my own feelings because of being scared of the concenquenses.

I hope you can make a decision sooner rather than later. There will be light at the end of the tunnel but your the only one with a torch.

Wow - good advice from all! Thankyou!

I cant move as my wife is a teacher and has got a full time job, not easy to come by in teaching and all her family are near by etc. I dont think I would want to move anyway as we help care for her grandad and I would really miss him if we moved.

I dont really know why I havent already quit, it feels like giving in or something. I see what you mean about being sick just putting it off, I hadnt thought of it that way.

My company doesnt really worry to much about employment law. They just fight it out in employment courts if they need too. They have a lot of lawyers. To give you an idea of thier business practices they were just fined $100million for fraudulent accounting practices. Doing things right is not thier strong point.I think my doc would sign me off, hes a bit of a soft touch and has offered it before but I was worried about it affecting my CV.

For what its worth my current wage is 20k. The wage rise I have been promised but will no longer get is to a scale that runs from from 25k to 28k (good jump). The same job in the same company on the Irish site is about £36k if you convert it from Euro to Pounds. Clearly I am cheap...

I'm certain that no-one would join a union so I would be the only person. I dont think that would be worth it? No-one else would join as those that stick thier heads up get managed out. The person with the problem with me and a different team leader have an HR approved plan to manage one of thier agents out - they have reduced him to tears in the office with thier dealings with him. They openly discuss how long to they can make him do it again. The reason for this? Hes nearly 50 and has more life experience than computer experience and they dont like supporting him. Hes good at his job as well and the customers love him as hes clearly a very nice guy. HR are aware of this and going with it as he has been given a low rating twice so is fair game.

Julian - thanks for the list mate - I am on most of these already but have missed a few - google is getting me in the right direction for the rest.

Im not sure on getting more money out of them by sueing them. Its not really my style and to be honest the size of the company they will either win or drag it out so long it wont matter any more.

I dont have any weight to throw about really - if I get to stroppy they will just fire me, they need to make customer satisfaction scores, however these are generally made by fiddling the stats. If you say your angry on the phone your contact details will be changed so you dont get a survey. Simples. Only happy people get surveyed, even then we struggle to hit 90% CSAT...

esselgruntfuttock - ****ing hell mate! That adds a bit of perspective to this. Hope things are good for you now and getting better!

I hope you can make a decision sooner rather than later. There will be light at the end of the tunnel but your the only one with a torch.

I think if I quit now all I will be able to get is a job in Asda / Tesco / etc. Does that look better on a CV? I have always liked the idea of being a sparky or a nurse (although a few mates that are nurses have said run away, but some people on here have in the past talked happily about it!), I suppose this could be a great time to retrain...

The company value you so much that they won't give you a pay rise, therefore why should they expect you to work 60 hour weeks? As a simple suggestion try leaving earlier than you have been doing. The work will still be there in the following morning, but you will have had more time off.

In your terms and conditions they must have told you your working hours. If they did not then at the very worst the number of hours you can work per week is 48 hours (you are NOT allowed to opt of this part of the Working Time Directive). Keep an accurate record and after that many hours go home. If you are critical to their business what can they do, if you are not critical then why are you working so many hours.

Finally regarding holidays they must give you so many days per year - I think it is 20 plus public holidays (but it might be 20 including public holidays). In any case tell the company when you are planning to take leave, give reasonable notice at least one week in advance for every day you want to take off and take the leave. It will brings things to a head and they may threaten you. If so get it in writing and go and consult your local CAB.

I have been there - at one time I thought that ending it all would make it easier. Fortunately I took a long holiday and realised that it is just a job. Without your health (and that includes the mental side) you won't be able to do your job - or most importantly enjoy your friends and family

Good luck with whatever you decide. But please change something

Pretty easy to work out who you work for then!

Good luck with it all and I hope you get it sorted.

Julian

Just so you know mate, i am starting a 4 month course on the 30th of August to completly retrain in a different field. Something i've never done before but always had a thing for. Now it's going to be my life and i've never been happier than when i think about that. Just wanted to let you know that re-training is very daunting but knowing i'll be happy afterwards is priceless. My other half did pretty much the same thing (after leaving her job due to sexual harassment) and is now training to be a teacher. (sometimes i wonder weather my life should be a soap opera!!!!)

PS.

I think it is 20 plus public holidays (but it might be 20 including public holidays)

It's 20 days plus public holidays.

All the best!

i would rather stack shelves at a supermarket, than take shit at work.
i have only ever taken a job that
a. i can cycle too and from
b. that have sociable hours

not saying anyone is wrong for wanting to earn big money, but when the result is a world of crap, then it is time to step back and rethink what is really important in your life.
money? health?

you would be suprised at how little you can survive on............ 8)

No jobs worth your health or stress on your family.

[i]For what its worth my current wage is 20k.[/i]

You're doing 60 hr weeks for 20k?

Walk away chap, you're being ridden

Speaking from experience,

Much easier to find work when you already have some. Start looking but don't have a hissy fit and storm out.

/2p

Jeezo - the more you tell me the worse it gets. Someone needs to make a stand and you guys really need to join a union. This is what unions are for. The other guy you mention is being bullied and quite possibly its criminal behaviour

It is totally up to you about making a stand yourself but given what you tell me I would. partly cos the chances of a decent payout are high and partly cos they need to be dealt with. Its not hundreds that we are talking about here ( but take good independent advice)

You realise some of what they are doing is possibly criminal?

If your employer had broken your leg due to having no guards on the machines and they had been told about the missing guards which they need to legally have would you go after them? So whats the difference when they have broken your brain?

Your work should not make you ill is the bottom line.

Obviously you don't have to comment but from what you've said I'd guess you're with HP. HP pay a lot of attention to ethics and compliance issues, and that includes the way they treat staff. Your "local" management sound like they're living in the past. You weren't EDS before the takeover were you?

Anyway, if you don't get the response you need from your direct manager or HR send an email to the highest person in the UK organisation. Just cut and paste your first post into the email.

You do realise you are barely above minimum wage? You'd be better off getting a job in Tesco and another in a pub to get your 60 hours in stress free. Teej is right - take them for all you can and get out. They are seriously in breach on so many counts it's taking the piss.

nickc +1, 60 hour weeks for 20 grand!!?! I earned more than that (pro rata) doing my student job, working at a dry ski slope. The job was so laid back, pleasant and stress free that I still go in twice a week for the craic (I work mostly from home so it gets me away from the computer and I get some human company!).

Downscaling to a nice wee job at B&Q / Asda / wherever else might not look too hot on the CV, but will certainly look better than an unexplained gap in employment, filled, in reality by a massive burnout, coupled with depression.

I've been sh@t on massively by employers in the distant past - mostly catering jobs where you are utterly replaceable, so can identify with the feelings of helplessness / hopelessness / going home and reliving the various humiliations of the day. Not pleasant - I can feel my blood pressure rising as I type...

To those telling the OP that the fault is partly his own, humbug.

Whilst I admire and in part agree with TJ's sentiments , I'm afraid that as others have said, you may well find that future employers will take a dim view of prospective employees who have 'history'. Better just to get out with your sanity.

That sounds all bad. I can understand your position and when you are that deep in its very hard to get back out. You have to step back and consider your values and what is important to you, you know the answer that your job actually i slow down on the scale. Your job does not define who you are. As suggested in all the posts above i would take some immediate steps to relieve your personal pressure before you pop, demand some holiday time and start to look for something else to do.

user-removed - Member

n........... I'm afraid that as others have said, you may well find that future employers will take a dim view of prospective employees who have 'history'. Better just to get out with your sanity.

this is true but should only affect you for your next job or for a year or two - after you have had another job you can use that for references.

My final bit of advice is don't make any hasty decisions

Fair enough. My wife is a union rep - she's an NHS health professional and I see many parallels between the way staff are treated in her trust and my p/t cooncil job, that is, much, much better than in the private sector.

I've personally stuck my head above the parapet on behalf of a 'problem' employee at my work, safe in the knowledge that the management were breaking employment law and that a strong evidence base would protect the guy. I'd be far less willing to do do such a thing were I still working in many of my previous private sector jobs.

I only thought about that because of the OP's tale of the bullied 50 year old - that's truly horrendous.

Hi,

From what you've said so far, the siuation sounds quite sh*t. I work in Glasgow and the company I work for has a contract with a company you may work for. I've been the customer on the end of the tight SLA's so can understand the expectations that are set on your behalf.

I work tier 2/3 in a similar support environment and between work and a long commute I had to re-adjust work/life . I am moving to a new job soon with better pay, working hours and a company that values life outside of work (i hope).

Your wage is extremely poor for the job/level you have described and has obviously not been benchmarked in 10+ years.

I would brush up your C.V. I've used Lee at [url= http://www.thecvstore.net/ ]The CV Store[/url]a few times in the past and have never failed to get an interview. There are plenty of jobs in Glasgow for your field, but you may need to adjust the roles you are looking for, especially to reduce stress. Look for jobs working directly for a company onsite rather than a support provider. You will be valued more and don't have the stress of worrying about expectations as much.

I know a lot of people in the Glasgow area who I can ask to keep a look out. Not recruitment agents, but staff working in established companies who have strong IT teams.

My email is in my profile. Give me a shout if you want to chat about it of even meet up for a pint in the town to talk anything through.

Sounds more like Dell to me from the locations but regardless I'd have to agree with TJ on this, you're getting shafted for whatever reason and it sounds like you've already done the obvious things to try and resolve the situation so join a union and start fighting back IMO. I usually have a high workload and don't get much chance for holidays but that's mostly my choice, if I had to add hassle with management and shitty co-workers to that I'm not sure I'd hang around long. It's a tricky one if you can't relocate though 🙁

All good advice there mate.

I would add:

Work to Rule is your first move, if you finish at 5, finish at 5. Dig out your contract and see exactly what you have to do. Do nothing more.

Get some counselling via your GP if you can.

Sit down with your wife and make a plan for dealing without your salary for a bit, cancel that Sky subscription, sell a car etc. Her support and involvement is crucial. It is good that you are acknowledging the problem and talking to people.

I would avoid stress or depression on your work record if possible, but there are a zillion things you can signed off for in that cocktail of symptoms you described without any dishonesty.

Good luck.

20k?! Who else read the OP and thought - £60k pa job that, course it's stressful?!

dmiller if you can't make your CV look awesome and get an amazing job in a much better company, then you need someone to check it. 5 years experience at a senior level to 25 employees? In a high pressure environment meeting 2 hour SLAs for EMEA?

Unions won't work, going to HR clearly hasn't - you still have a few choices though -

1. Stay, suck it up, but don't work the hours. Don't throw your toys out of the pram, just leave on time, tell them you have a home life. Detach yourself from the company. Let things go to pot. They can't force you to work over your contracted hours, you're not getting a pay rise or any incentive to stay late, so why do it? It isn't your problem if customer satisfaction goes down cos they are understaffed - you have to understand that it is their problem, and they need to solve it, not you.

2. Hand in your notice and see what happens. Tell them you've got a better job somewhere else paying 30k. They'll probably match it. If they don't then you have a month to go and get a 20k job doing a 40 hour week, retrain if you want, ride your bike and enjoy your family.

3. Proper look for a job - if you're stressed, under pressure and working all the time it's dead easy to say to yourself that you are too busy, don't feel like it or whatever. Believe me, it's like a weight off your shoulders when you update your CV, give it to a recruitment agent (scum though they are) and they tell you they've started to look.

Good luck, you and your wife sound like good people.

60 hours per week x 52 weeks = 3120 hours for £20,000 = £6.41 an hour.

Go and get yourself a no win no fee lawyer. Keep a diary of events, worst case line up a burger flippers job at McDonalds.

You stand to make loads from the company via a tribunal. You would easily compensate for the salary by working in Maccy Dees. All of that with no stress.

Difficult when you are at the coal face, but the reality is that you will do yourself significant harm if you don't do something about this. No CV is worth that. Besides if the company are as you say that will be known in the industry. It will not effect you negatively.

NB: Regardless of what you think shareholders don't like to see their investment paying out large sums of money unecessarily and featuring in negative press coverage. This is internal management, and you cannot deliver sustained profitability like that. They will change at some point, don't hang about till they do though.

20k?! Who else read the OP and thought - £60k pa job that, course it's stressful?!

Everyone who doesn't work in IT, I expect. (-:

I've read this and theres a lot of good advice here. But frankly, it's up to you to take it. All this 'not wanting to make a fuss' or 'how will it make my CV look' stuff is unfortunately you trying to create reasons why you won't take control of it.

Put bluntly, if you don't you'll make yourself even more ill, your wife will leave you, you'll end up properly depressed and eventually jump off a bridge or something. OK, i exaggerate but you need to MTFU and take control now. The first step is the hardest.

Stress and pressure are very closely related. We all work better under pressure. It's when you don't have control that it becomes stress. What you face right now are some very pressurised situations but you can control them if you do the right things now. Again bluntly. You [u]could[/u] close the door tonight on them and just not go back and all that stress will disappear. You'll get a load of different pressures straight afterwards but I guarantee you it will be better than this. But frankly, and I am not an employment lawyer, HR pro or TJ, I'd be taking advice as well on a constructive dismissal type claim and preparing a case for that before taking that step. Because what they are doing to you simply isn't acceptable, and if you can walk out with a reference and a sum to ease you into the next step of your life, that'll reduce the pressures you'll be in next.

Good luck. But please FFS, do something about it NOW. TODAY. It'll make you feel better once you've taken control of it.

+1 what theotherjonv said

(From previous and very bitter exeprience)

theotherjonv - Member

I'd be taking advice as well on a constructive dismissal type claim and preparing a case for that before taking that step.

Absolutely - get real professional advice so you know how strong your claim is - personal injury is possible as well as constructive dismissal. Then you can decide if it is worth pursuing.

D'you know what.

I'm updating my CV tonight, that pep talk could just as easily have been aimed at me.

MTFU Jon. You're far better off financially and mentally than dmiller but that still doesn't make you well off. take control.

You could earn 20K+ stacking shelves in Tesco for zero stress, even if it was just for 6 months, to give yourself time to recover. Seriously - your situation is a sick joke. Just walk. What is the worst thing that can happen? It doesn't sound like they are going to give you a great reference anyway, and job interviews are for explaining your side of what went right and wrong at your last job anyway, so don't worry about it.

Your health is worth more than the job.

there's few feelings as good as the weight lifting off your shoulders as you walk out on a sh1t job.

Having worked for your employer in a management capacity I know a couple of things you can do. Got to HR today and raise a greivance. Use the words "I want to raise a grievance" they have to acknowledge any grievance raised officially even if its total bollox and in your case it won't be. State the facts clearly your contracted hours will be 37.5 plus "extra hours to reasonably support the business" 12 hour shifts everyday is in no way reasonable

It should be easy to prove the extra hours you are working with email's etc. If they have really denied you annual leave when its been reasonably requested then that is even more ammunition. They cannot take action against you while you have a grievance raised.

If they fail to take any action then walk away and seek legal advice for constructive dismissal. I know they are a big company but I also know many people who have successfully sued for constructive dismissal

Apart from taking some legal advice (not necessarily paid for), the 'raise a grievance' is a good place to start - it sounds like like you've tried that already - was it done formally/in writing ? - they have to deal with that in some way (company procedures?) - if they don't then that's in your favour legally. Keep a careful record of what has/is going on and what's been said, if it comes to a tribunal it'll help.

AFAIA, constructive dismissal isn't easy to prove, despite how many people mention it, and you have to be very sure of the circumstances that allow you to use that argument - tho' it sounds like richmtb ought to have some insight. Bear in mind that's it's another form of unfair dismissal - unless there's discrimination involved (race/sex/disability - I think that covers it), all you may be awarded is for loss of earnings between the current job and the next, which may not be a fat lot. In some ways the best you can expect would to be for them to offer a compromise agreement (here's some money because we're terminating your contract unfairly) but how you'd persuade them to do that (working set hours, pursuing grievance, mebbe) I dunno.

My OH wound up with a compromise agreement some years ago after her manager taking her through an unwarranted capability procedure, and trying to overload her with work so she'd crack (not an uncommon approach it seems). She didn't, and eventually the little prick got hr to sort a compromise - fortunately worked out ok (I suspect 'cos their HR were a decent bunch. A **lot** of grief over 6 months tho'...

BTW - taking legal action shouldn't make any difference ot future employers, if they're that concerned about it maybe you don't need to work for them 😉 And if you are signed off for stress - again, be clean with the next employer - a mate's wife wasn't and got marched out when they found it - simply for not being truthful. Regarding references - I think it's difficult for an emplyer not to give you reference, but all it may be (or need to be) is 'yes they worked here for n years...'

there's few feelings as good as the weight lifting off your shoulders as you walk out on a sh1t job.

True. I made it out in March this year after a grim 18 months. Sadly, something from back then has come to bite me on the backside today (so I'm in a whole world of stress again).

Why not look for contracting work, same crap IT stuff, but three times the wages, plus in my experience when you are on contract the customer prefers you to finish at 5pm as any extra hours are billable.
I went from contract to full time at ScottishPower in Glasgow and all of a sudden I was working till ten at night for no reward, just a pile of stress and an unseemly rash onmy hands.
As soon as another contract came up, in Glasgow, I was offski.
It certainly sounds like you are ready for a move, if your wifes income can support you why not take some time out to study, that would be good for the CV, showing that you are motivated to change and develop.
You might as well go to town with raising a grievance as well, make life uncomfortable for them, they certainly dont appreciate you by the sound of it.

[url= http://www.hse.gov.uk/stress/index.htm ][b]This may, or may not be of help[/b][/url]

The HR response was "suck it up or quit"

Appalling unprofessional-ism on their part. They have a duty of care for your welfare at work. Finding yourself crying over work* is not normal so definitely discuss with your doctor. Consistently having to work those hours probably also puts the firm in breach of EU working time directives.

Don't risk you health, happiness, career or family. Be clear about what overtime you are capable of doing, get an employment lawyer, join a trades-union or start looking for a better job!

Good luck

*I've done it myself, more than once.

Its nice talking about the theory of the relative crimes and punishment in respect of your employer, but it will raise the stress and angst even higher and take bloody ages.

Can you survive on just your other half's income? If so, just walk. Its just a job, and a poorly paid one at that. An office administrator can earn 20k. Its not like you're locked into your trade because of salary expectations.

Wow so many responses! Thanks!

First of all I have an appointment with my doctor tomorrow. Once I have seen the doctor I think its time to make (another) formal complaint about my working conditions and the previous lack of support I have been given. This time I will do it in writing so there is a record. My managers manager is over from Ireland tomorrow as well as the team moral is so low he needs to attend meetings about it. (In a recent survey only 1/3 of the team said they would stay if offered another job with the same wages and conditions). I will grab him for a bit and hand the formal complaint to him.

I dont particulary care about sueing them - I just want out.

My wife and I move into a new house on the 20th of August hopefully so I dont think we can afford for me to be out of work, however we can afford for me to work in anything as long as its full time.

So, current plan, hopefully the doctor will sign me off for a month and I can use the first week to chill and the rest to get a job, any job. Also think I might try and get my city and guilds 2382 and work towards being an electrician. Perhaps in the mean time I might be lucky enough to land one of the IT jobs I have applied for, however I think I need to stop hoping that happens and make sure I get any job away from my current employer.

I am also happy (if thats the right word) to see how many people here have been in a similar position. It makes me feel less of a fool to be honest.

Also thanks to the people that have taken the time to email me as well!

OMG! I used to work in hardware support. I could fill several pages explaining some of the injustices and abuse that my colleagues and I experienced. I worked for five different employers and the form with each was pretty much the same. You get seriously flogged! Working 24hrs on the trot happened often, 36hrs was my longest shift.

Employee abuse in hardware roles is prevalent. I would never accept another role in support, ever! The remuneration is derisory and the job takes too much from you, both physically and mentally. It'll get you in the end if you stick around! I did my 20 plus years, someone has to do this.

The reaction from people in this thread is quite typical. "Join a union","you must be on some serious dough to do that" etc. You need to have done the job to understand how it feels to have no personal space. The company intrudes on your every breathing moment and will not give a damn about the effects it will have on you or you family! The fact is you cannot join a union and you will not get decent pay!!

Hardware support never pays anywhere near enough, they will run you into the ground, then tell you you aren't good enough, withold salary increases, lay off much needed team members, etc. I've seen it all before. It's happend to me and it's happened to others, over and over!

As the maintenace revenues have collapsed, volumes of hardware have increased, they now want to pay peanuts ro do more, but the management and sales teams are still on great money, fantastic money! An insult!!

What these greedy souless ****ers don't understand or appreciate, is the talent, intelligence and dedication of their employees working at the coal face! The sort of people who will go the extra mile day after day, week after week, year after year, usually wthout any thanks.

I got a pat on the back for good performance once. They gave me a day trip to Paris on Eurostar (not a stop over, just a day - the tight bastards). I couldn't get a weekend off to take the bloody prize due to standby, scheduled overtime and filling in for engineers in other regions who were off with stress related illnesses. One guy was out working for 24hrs, fell asleep at the wheel and crashed his car on the M25. His boss told him he wasn't up to the pressure of the job! The boss said he was responsible for the hours he worked (funny that! I never had that choice when the pager went off in the middle of the night!). This guy was a good engineer and had a good, professional attitude. He left swiftly. After three months and having a couple of failed chances, i just gave up on the trip to Paris.

Several years later I was refused my annual summer holiday with my wife (she is a teacher too). This was months before the event, but the holiday date was not flexible (arranged for my by my father in-law and a kind of timeshare). As I'd bust a gut for the firm and frequently done overtime for other regions absent engineers and for no pay, given up half my free time (not knowing which half until the last minute), I decided enough was enough. They told me to take my holiday separately from my family!?!? Flexibility is something expected of an employee, a one way street! (considering the times when I had manned an area of 4 men on my own for a month and when not trained). The bullying attitude of the boss was quite unbelievable. HR backed him up, of course! I found that in any dispute, I was always made to feel I was in the wrong, even when I was right. Their polarized attidude only made me resent them even more, but I just got my head down and got on with it.

24 years after taking up the rains, I walked! For three years after, any noise resembling a pager going off made me feel unwell. When I left and started a 9-5 low presure role, it honestly felt like I was on holiday, just because I was having every weekend off. I frequently had 9 week stints witjout a day off, so this was amazing.

I occasionally feel very depressed and regret that i gave so many years of my life for someone else's profit - proper exploitation when it takes up your whole life.

I've since had other jobs where a normal working day (plus an hour or two) is all that is expected of me.

For years I dreamed of a well paid 9 to 5 job , where i had weekends off. It was not to be working for a computer hardware vendor.

My firm advice is get out of it as soon as you can! Retrain, be a teacher, do anything, but hardware support!

If you are genuinely depressed, stressed etc, go sick! Get a note. Stuff worrying about being locked out of the market due to a blemish on your record. You don't want to be employed by these sort of shysters anyaway! Go for constructive dismissal if you can, I regret i didn't, despite people I know urging me to do so!

The fact is you cannot join a union

Of course you can. Everyone has an absolute right to join a union and igf you are victimised for doing so it just puts the empoyers further in the shite

This is why unions developed to stop this sort of abuse - and they are not bad at it.

Not if it is in your contract that you can't join one! In the five companies I worked for, none would tolerate union membership. None of the engineers would stick their necks out to join one either. What you have to realise is the culture in American firms is not like your average UK council, or unionized industry.

STEP 1 - Document / Diary ALL the bullshit.

STEP 2 - Raise a written, formal grievance and let them investigate (speak to ACAS if not a Union member,they can advise and sometimes offer conciliation) and hope employer improves the situation. Insist on written/minuted responses to all communications with employer.

STEP 3 - Follow TJ's advice if no resolution after steps 1 & 2. Speak to Govan Law Centre, Strathclyde University Law Clinic or CAB about issues TJ has raised.

spongebob - its unenforceable term in your contract.

In the UK you have an absolute legal right to join a union. No ifs, no buts, no terms in your contract. Its an absolute right.

Whats more - if more than a certain % of the workforce join one the company has to recognise it and negotiate with it. Absolute legal right.

Companies that bully like you were on the wrong end of rely on cowing the workforce.

Oh and wnen you're done an anonymous phone call to HSE listing non-compliance with H&SAWA 1974 should be suitable and just revenge. Managers can also be personally liable too, criminally not in a civil court. Should engender some managerial stress!

Change jobs. Start looking for the right role rather than eventually leaving with nothing to go to.

My bestmate is currently on Beta blockers because of work. I've asked him numerous times to find a new job but hes wrapped-up/involved in work and with a massive mortgage so hes head down and can't look up 🙁

Here's a simple plan.

Walk out the door and don't go back. Don't spare one nano second of your time to thinking about your old job. Think of the future.

Now you have lost your income. Adjust your expectations of life to suit. There's lots of money that can be saved in the family budget if there is a free adult around to do things like shopping etc.

Your work won't care. Just like they wouldn't care if you dropped dead or broke down completely.

Your family might like it.

Print up some business cards and go looking for wee jobs. If you can't get more than £20k pa freelancing with your obvious qualifications, then somethings wrong. It just won't happen overnight.

Happiness is being your own boss and not being owned by anyone (bank, employer, etc).

Do it now.

Ok so the doctor has signed me of for three weeks!

Been round all the local shops for application forms (even my LBS - I needed a tube anyway 😀 ).

Thanks for the advice everyone!

David.

Well done. Step one complete. I bet you're scared right now, but you feel better already too, don't you?

I spent all day feeling wierd, like I was bunking of school. I feel very guilty to be honest! I did cheer up this evening though, I went down to the shed and pottered about and then played with the RPG on moderm warfare for an hour!

I am currently off sick with stress/depression/anxiety/mania and have been for the last 4 weeks. This is my third time in 5 years but I am bipolar so all part of the illness.

I suspect the guilty feelings/bunking off school is common. Certainly, I feel that way and have had those feelings on previous occasions.

Stress, nervous exhaustion is real, so I would try not to dwell on the guilty feelings.

I think it is a positive sign that you feel guilty. I would interpret that as you have got in there early before things could really get out of control.

I have had two full on breakdowns in the past, probably down to chronic stress but you can never be sure. I know others on here have been through that hell. I am sure we are all in agreement it is not a nice place to be.

Hope you start to feel better over the next couple of weeks.

Best thing that could have happened to you.

I was in a similarly stressful situation at work a few years ago. The only way to deal with it was to get away from it for a bit. In the end I took a weeks leave and after much drinking and feeling sorry for myself I decided to go back into work and quit. It was without doubt the best feeling in the world and has left me with a different attitude towards work(the good jobs are worth putting yourself out for, the sh*te jobs just aren't. Ever). Don't go rushing into things as your situation will undoubtedly be different to what mine was, but do try and spend some time over the next few weeks thinking about what is best for you and, if need be, take drastic action. In my experience there really are more important things than work and stress is more serious than many people think when it comes to long term health.

I stumbled across this thread after throwing a bit of a paddy earlier and it has helped me realise I'm getting over stressed about a few things in my own life right now. I don't doubt that smashing up a fairly expensive back wheel in a fit of rage did help me blow of some steam but by god is it going to cost me to put things right (and the neighbours will probably steer clear for a while!). If only I'd read your posts first I'd have realised I need to chill out a bit more and just deal with the difficult stuff in a more measured way. Stress creeps up on you and you need to look out for the warning signs.

Good luck with it all, things can truly only get better.

Just to thank everyone again. Quit my job this week, I have sorted a job with a large retailer as a salesman (only about £2k wage drop before bonus, should be the same with bonus) and I am starting to feel like a new man.

Interesting enough after my resignation letter I have been invited to attend a formal grievance meeting to discuss it... Also they have banned all swearing in the work place two days after I hand in my notice.

Anyways - I am now free from them. 🙂

You have my sympathy. Important things to do are
1) Keep a record of all contacts with HR and your line management
2) Ask them to give you written reason why things are as they are
3) Go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau and seek guidance on engaging a solicitor that is savvy in employment law
4) Take the solicitors advice,
It is also worth reading the Health and Safety Execs info on stress atwork. It may be helpful to ask your HR dept to look at the case of Walker v Northumberland County Council. This was a landmark case for looking at the stress people experience at work. Walker won one big lump of money
Whatever you do KEEP ACCURATE RECORDS! These will help if it comes to litigation
Look after you in all of this

Go sick with stress and depression for a good long period, enjoy the break and make them see how much they miss you