[Closed] Public Sector Strike 30/11

Cheers Woody, I'm back in tomorrow so need to brush up ready as my staff will ask.

Post to fix the bug.

neither had the union rep I spoke to yesterday

ffs, has your union rep been in contact with your full-time official/regional office ?

A phone call should have done it, I would have thought. Time for a new union rep maybe. Unfortunately it's not always easy to find someone to take on the thankless task.

Drac, tbh I thought it would just have deteriorated into the usual "debate" about whether or not we need unions etc.. I was a bit pressed for time and thought id just look at the last few pages to see how it developed.. I don't know what andyp and others had been saying earlier in the thread but I did read someone else using the term "bless" in a (what I took to be) patronising fashion.. I couldn't see what the issue was with the particular post you highlighted although I only read pages 1, then 3 onwards.. I'm only asking because I'd like to maker sure I don't tread on anyone's toes in a similar fashion.
Have spoken to my rep about it, he advised of the above, a phisio from a different hospital had told me yesterday that the nurses weren't having to withhold their services.. My rep did state he hadn't received any formal notice about the exact arrangements but that that was his understanding of our position. Apparently we'll not be attending non emergency calls tho.. I know you and I are in the same line of work. What's happening with yourselves then?
(edit) I really should figure out how to quote properly on here one of these days!

My heart goes out to that public sector worker who would'nt empty my bin this morning, because there was a tiny corner of a bin bag sticking out of the lid!

Was that a public sector worker or a private contractor working for local government?

What's happening with yourselves then?

I have no idea, I'll speak to my rep in the morning see if she knows anything as I'm supposed to be nights next week. I was around during the Ambulance dispute some 20 odd years ago it wasn't a nice time.

Ernie
I'll correct myself - it was actually a Branch Officer I spoke to (none of the shop stewards have heard anything). Probably best that I refrain from saying what I'm thinking on a public forum.

To give you some idea, I've just checked the union website on the intranet and the last update was on August 16th.

There was some information Woody can't remember where it was but it refereed to NEAS in particular and it was from both camps. I'll see if I can locate it tomorrow as it was a print off.

Yes and be careful on public forums you're never as anonymous as we'd like to think.

Bah. Letter from the school saying they'll be shut. It's going to be a complete nightmare having them both at home spoiling our nice quiet day when we normally only have one to look after between the two of us. They don't think of things like that do they?

I've heard stories about the last time there was a major dispute up here.. Apparently the buckets didn't need rattling very much and no one lost any wages as a result.. Hard to imagine that being the case..
I've read some comments colleagues have put up on Facebook and amazed at some of the things they say.. Mental.
Re my last post, Drac, do you not comment on moderating matters if asked? I am only asking. If this is the case I will stop asking!

I've heard stories about the last time there was a major dispute up here.. Apparently the buckets didn't need rattling very much and no one lost any wages as a result..

There was some huge support from the public and some hate but our role back then was a very different role and we it was not as busy by a long means as it is now. I heard claims of the not losing money to but there was also those that struggled.

Drac, do you not comment on moderating matters if asked? I am only asking. If this is the case I will stop asking!

We don't comment on the forums, we may answer via email but the comments I made to AndyP was not moderation. If people start insulting or rather as you pointed out being patronising when asked a reasonable question then they really need to stop posting in my opinion.

I must say I find it strange that its always dressed up as 'pensions'. I always thought the reason the public sector got a pension was to compensate for a lousy wage but noone ever seems to mention that. IME loads of people are able to quite public sector after 10-20 years experience and double or triple income by going private at which point the reduced pension is less relevant. Planning officers, DPP, research establishments etc etc. A mate of mine quit the DTi after 20 years and went to a bank and tripled his wage overnight. The only well paid people in public service IMO are doctors and they have always had governments under their thumb going back to 1940s.

I must say I find it strange that its always dressed up as 'pensions'. I always thought the reason the public sector got a pension was to compensate for a lousy wage but noone ever seems to mention that

Because it's about the pensions not the wages.

The point that hh45 is making is that the pensions are part of the remuneration which public sector workers get in the compensation they receive in exchange for the service they perform for their employers. This fact, as he correctly points out, is rarely mentioned.

IME loads of people are able to quite public sector after 10-20 years experience and double or triple income by going private

That's only a very small subset of public sector employees.

The point that hh45 is making is that the pensions are part of the remuneration which public sector workers get in the compensation they receive in exchange for the service they perform for their employers. This fact, as he correctly points out, is rarely mentioned.

It's mentioned a lot here at work. Essentially, the way that teachers pensions work, they're just deferred pay so what's being proposed is a massive pay cut.

Yep, employer contributions = deferred pay.

Not only is the proposed reduction effectively a wage cut, it is compounded by the switch from RPI to CPI, increased individual contributions, and having to work longer. That is above and beyond the pay freeze at a time when inflation is at 5%.

The point that hh45 is making is that the pensions are part of the remuneration which public sector workers get in the compensation they receive in exchange for the service they perform for their employers. This fact, as he correctly points out, is rarely mentioned.

It was a small compensation at one time yes but not a compensation as such just something to look at and so oh well least we have a good pension. That good pension is now under threat not the wages, they've been effected already, which is what were fighting for. I'm not on a bad wage these days but it took years to get there and only came about just to some Government reviews and those awful horrible trade unions fighting for the conditions.

Drac, fair Nuff. Ta for answering.. I don't agree with what Andyp was saying regarding unions and what point he had, wasn't put across very well.. Ie- just posting a link with a definition of what a union was.. I'm not in any way putting down the role you and others have on here.
I personally didn't find what he was saying that patronising or offensive, especially compared to some other posts made on this thread and others.. Having not seen any other posts from him after that I assumed there had been some "modding" going on but wasn't sure which is why I was asking.
Think we're working strictly to rule (kinda) but if asked to strike I'm not sure I would be comfortable with that. Not in the job as long as you and as much as I don't agree or think there's any need for Nhs pension reforms I just couldn't live with myself if something happened to someone due to my decision to strike. I wanted to do my job for a reason and not sure striking dovetails (just for elf) very well with that.
Certainly sounds like there's a lot of confusion out there around what's actually happening on the 30th..

Had a small message about it from a rep and it seems it will probably be work to rule, specifics to follow. Least in this area.

A seemingly disproportionate number of Ambo workers on here it seems, obviously not productive enough at work and/or too many days off... Privatise the lot of them I say, flippin' work shy glorified taxi drivers with first aid certificates! (couldn't do your job, bet you see some sights, etc etc...)

😆 😉 😆

Hahaha! 😀

I finished nights this am back tomorrow at 7am for 4 day shifts.

Bad luck, I'm back in on weds for two days, two nights. 😐

Yeah I'm spare this week and last so shitty shifts and owe one so paying that back.

I'll be working on the strike day.

Not because I don't agree with the strike, but because I'm rostered to work that day, just like I'm down to work every 3 weekends out of 4. Just like I'm down to work at Christmas, and those bank holidays that other folk get off as a matter of course. Just like I work 5 weeks of nights out of every 14 weeks.

Just like I have done for the past 25 years. Twenty five years. That's 25 years of experience, the experience that has, and will continue to save peoples lives.

I hate the ignorance that this country has bred into its people.

I'm rostered to work that day, just like I'm down to work every 3 weekends out of 4. Just like I'm down to work at Christmas, and those bank holidays that other folk get off as a matter of course. Just like I work 5 weeks of nights out of every 14 weeks.

Just like I have done for the past 25 years. Twenty five years. That's 25 years of experience, the experience that has, and will continue to save peoples lives.

[img] [/img]

Just like I work 5 weeks of nights out of every 14 weeks.

Cracking rota, well except I prefer nights so working less than 50% is worse than I get now.

Why is the little girl crying? Who has upset her?

Crikey, Blimey (!?) you say it like its a bad thing! Quite like my shifts actually, nothing better than finishing your last night shift on a Monday morning, heading home on what looks to be the beginning of a glorious day, knowing that after a lovely sleep in your comfy bed, whilst the 'normals' are slaving away, you've got the rest of the week off...

(Though there are downsides, I'll give you that. 25%s worth, to be fair!)

EDIT; hiya Elf, missed you! (waves)

[i]finishing your last night shift on a Monday morning, heading home on what looks to be the beginning of a glorious day, knowing that after a lovely sleep in your comfy bed, whilst the 'normals' are slaving away, you've got the rest of the week off...[/i]

Then starting on days on Tuesday morning, actually.

A pain if you're 20 odd, tedious if you're 30, when you're 55? or 60?

Whatever, it's you lot I'm looking after...

Aye, guess it seems that way on here at the mo! Loving the generic comments tho..
On my 7 off at the mo, start back for 7 on Thursday night. I'm spare but seconded onto permanent nights till feb covering mat leave. Saving us a fortune in childcare at the mo and every second weekend off. It's amazing being able to plan stuff after being on relief the last few years. Not looking forward to Feb tho!
Mind you, I've got three quarters of Christmas day off this year for the first time and Hogmany too so not all bad. Will get to see my son opening his presents and (that's an "AND" btw) have Christmas dinner with the family! Then go to work after that..

I suggest you get a better rota negotiated crikey...

Whatever, it's you lot I'm looking after...

Not me, wouldn't catch me in an Ambo as a patient. You never know where they've been! (actually I do, and therein lies the problem...)

I'm off on paternity for xmas and new year, now THAT'S serious planning ahead... 😉

[i]wouldn't catch me in an Ambo as a patient[/i]

I don't wear green, it doesn't suit my complexion, I'm an ITU nurse.

I don't wear green, it doesn't suit my complexion, I'm an ITU nurse.

I do my best to keep mine clean, usually washed inside and out every shift at some point.. Means I need to
come in a bit early sometimes but the dayshift don't seem to mind!
Blues, greens or White (even mauve!) we're all working towards the same goal.

Good night all. Stay safe out there.

hiya Elf, missed you! (waves)

Wha' gwan me bredren; ya irie an ting?

I don't work nights at the moment, although finishing at 11pm last night is almost a 'night'. I'm not sure how 'work to rule' (regardless of its form) would have been effective on that job - maybe I could have left my patient and buggered off at 2140 to enable me to get back to station on time and and hoped a crew turned up before she deteriorated further.

I'm sure the family would have been very understanding 8)

AND for the first time in 5 years, I'm off at Christmas WOOP WOOP

Wha' gwan me bredren; ya irie an ting?

Umm, ar day know if the mon on the bonk with a bostin ommer am on the box or if he has gone to Brumijum with his oss and babby along the cut.

Or something. 😆

I'm working Xmas for about the 16th time in 22 years. Ah well that's the way it goes and what the boost in unsociable hours is for.

Umm, ar day know if the mon on the bonk with a bostin ommer am on the box or if he has gone to Brumijum with his oss and babby along the cut.

WTF..?

Sorry sorry sorry; can you speak English please?

Jeeze. 🙄

Bloody foreigners; come over ear....

least you get paid extra for unsociable hrs 😐

Its around the 6 or 7 post mark that someone usually posts a pic of the "Anal Intruder", or some other female love toy.

Least your pension is being left alone. 😉

Least your pension is being left alone

You jest do you not!

Ah sorry. Not being messed with, again, just yet?

To be fair we won the unsociable hours because the Unions fought for it during the implementation of agenda for change. Sadly for you the FBU really did no one any favours at all during your dispute, it was badly handled and feel as I've said before you guys were lead a merry dance by the FBU.

indeed

last chance saloon for them this time me thinks.

Yeah just read some info on the FBU site, I'm puzzled why they're standing out on the own and not striking with the pretty much the rest of the PS Unions.

I know a couple of Firemen, and I'm sure it's because women bloody love them, it's like a non-taxable benefit. They only have to show up in those bloody yellow helmets and knicker elastic fails like a Superstar bottom bracket.....

apparently "we are in meaningful discussions with ministers."

To be fair we won the unsociable hours because the Unions fought for it during the implementation of agenda for change.

Either way, brill.

Have been avoiding this thread expecting the usual rant, but ...

"... knicker elastic fails like a Superstar bottom bracket..... "

has got me spluttering over my keyboard 🙂

Thanks!

PS - yes, will be on strike; no, am not a workshy fop; yes, am sick of being told we can 'do more with less' as we get overworked into the ground due to lack of staff ...

Or, snuck under the radar when most of the attention was on nurses and other hospital staff who have always recieved enhancements, and no one within the NHS employers had actually twigged that we didn't already get unsociable hours..

Our trust was the early implementor for the ambulance trusts, the unions pushed for us to have that right that as you rightly point out Nurses and others already had. We also gained the increased holiday entitlement for longer service.

🙂

I should say that I have no problem with Superstar bottom brackets, or Firemen, really, having little direct physical experience of either.

..and the original Agenda For Change proposal was to eliminate 'extra duty' payments for nurses, until it was pointed out to the muppets that it would be quite difficult to get people to work nights, weekends, bank holidays, public holidays and so on if you didn't actually offer to pay people more to do so. Astonishingly....

Last couple of pages have been great FACT.

It did Crikey but as you say they released what would happen and those terrible Trade Unions got it back for us, nasty people that they are.

Well, certainly sounds like the strike will be going ahead, I've said it before, it's your right to do so. I don't pick up on this thread that there is any great expectation of it actually altering government policy. Labour are making noises about it being the governments fault for "provoking" the unions but aren't claiming they wouldn't be reforming public sector pensions.

So what happens the day after?

Everything goes back to the way it was on the 29th?

The unions handily scuppered the labour party in advance, by using their block vote to force 'their' candidate, completely undemocratically, on the party. So now 'Red Ed' can't say boo about the strikes without being monstered by the right wing press as a union stooge

Plus, the obvious fact, that Ed Milliband is the most comically ineffective, utterly unelectable, spluttering, half-wit in the entire country. Every time I see my daughter reading this book:

[img] [/img]

I think of him. A tub of blancmange would be more effective as 'the Leader of the opposition'! It'd have more backbone anyway. Frankly, its embarrassing watching him trip over his own tongue through PMQ's. Call-me-Dave must have thought all his birthdays had come at once when that muppet was forced on the labour party

Even Gromit's embarrassed.
[img] [/img]

And yet Labour still lead in the polls.

There have been some good performances from Milliband in PMQs will post some up later (no sound on this computer).

And yet Labour still lead in the polls.

[b]I should bloody well hope so too!!![/b] We've got a government that has no electoral mandate behaving like it won with a landslide. Its implementing draconian policies that never appeared in any manifesto. Privatisation of the NHS anyone? Leaving the banks to business as usual. Absolute devastation of public services? and on, and on, and on.....

And yet the labour party flails around, polling about the same as them. Being led by the work experience boy who's, by some bizarre clerical error, presently pretending to be leader. Its pathetic!!! And makes a total sham of this whole 'democracy' lark

Freeundred. 😐

Won't be free if the Tories get their way though.

Sigh....

It's sad that we judge our politicians by their personality traits and looks rather than there actual beliefs, competency, and intelligence.

I'm sure I'm as guilty as the next bloke, just saying.

Thats not the reason I think he's pathetic. He appointed Ed Balls as Chancellor. A man who is associated absolutely with the biggest economic shambles in this countries history. Gordons right hand man as he ran the economy into the rocks

And now we're expected to take them seriously on the singular most pressing issue by a country mile - the economy. Get a grip!

It's sad that we judge our politicians by their personality traits and looks rather than there actual beliefs, competency, and intelligence.

Yup you're quite right. I guess it's just one of the downsides of having so much media now.

🙄

Public Sector working here, not in the union so won't be striking

I have not read the whole thread so excuse me if this is repeated.

I always thought strike was option of last resort, why therefore has there been no evidence of work to rule etc?

I looked at the turnout figures for Unison, 30%!!! By my sums, that means that only 22% of their members actually bothered to vote for a strike. Not much of a mandate is it?

That is all, must go off to more work spending the public pound!

Not much of a mandate is it?

If people were opposed to the strike they'd come out and vote no, so actually it's a ringing endorsement.

Staggering Ed Balls is shadow chancellor. A big hitter under Gordon, who was so unpopular at the last election, he only just about held onto his safe seat?

Elfinsafety - Member

Freeundred.

Won't be free if the Tories get their way though.

Sigh....

FFS take the dug oot and this happens Grrr

<kicks the dugs erse>

A big hitter under Gordon, who was so unpopular at the last election, he only just about held onto his safe seat?

Bit of a misrepresentation.

Lifer, have a read of Hopi Sen, (Labour blogger, nominated for the Orwell Prize for Journalism last year) he's always worth reading. I'd suggest that the public have not bought the Miliband brand, Labour might be a few points ahead in the polls but EMili is not percieved as Prime Minister material. And until Labour admit they shouldnt have run up a structural deficit going into a slow-down the public will not trust them on the economy. Anyway....Hopi Sen (thats really his name)

I would argue that the crucial barrier for Labour today is doubt over whether we would handle the economy competently, with a special focus on how we would reduce deficits over time.

I see this in the amazing consistency in the public view on deficit reduction (necessary, yet being done wrongly) and in the way people assent to our basic policy position, but reject Labour as a means for delivering that position.

This all combines with doubt over the capability, not just of our leadership, but of really the whole approach of the party, to fundamental economic questions.

In other words, we have become toxic on a crucial area of political support, and while that situation holds, no amount of correct mood reading will alter our basic political position.

For me, this is the best argument to explain why, despite being on the side of seventy per cent of the public on a whole range of issues, from phone hacking to energy prices to the need for growth, Labour and Ed Miliband have barely improved our position at all over the last year.

http://hopisen.com/2011/the-public-mood/

The unions handily scuppered the labour party in advance, by using their block vote to force 'their' candidate, completely undemocratically, on the party. So now 'Red Ed' can't say boo about the strikes without being monstered by the right wing press as a union stooge

I think it's more the case that he doesn't know what he believes in. He's certainly unable to articulate it.

Not much of a mandate is it?

If people were opposed to the strike they'd come out and vote no, so actually it's a ringing endorsement.

Typical lazy public sector workers, can't even be bothered to vote 😉

Not much of a mandate is it?

I didn't vote in the NUT ballot. At the time, I could see both sides of the for/against striking argument. But, I fully supported the result and I took part in the action, as I will next week.

If the NUT had balloted again, at the same time as the NASUWT vote, I'd have voted for strike action.

I think it's more the case that he doesn't know what he believes in. He's certainly unable to articulate it.

Its worse than that. He's set up christ knows how many focus groups and policy reviews to tell him what he's supposed to think. Maybe? Possibly? Are you sure? Shall we get a second opinion? Its tragic!

I think this is the ultimate Blairite legacy. Because they were all [i]TOLD[/i] by Alastair Campbell exactly what to say and think, there's no-one left in the labour party who is actually capable of independent thought. They're like children. Or sheep. They wouldn't know an ideology if it gave them a wedgie!

Steve Hilton.

WIN!

Union position with my lot finally clarified.

A+B calls only ie. serious/life-threatening requiring 'blue light' response, with exceptions for renal, oncology and palliative care patients.

Sorry McBoo just saw your link. Have read the occasional article by Sen but will check out a bit more of his stuff, ta.