[Closed] Public Sector Strike 30/11

Unions became obsolete thanks to employment legislation. They won the argument and are no longer needed.

In the same way that you don't need an army once you've won a war 😀

I say do you still live in the 80's?

No, I'm someone who accepts a democratic decision.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to work in my office, rather than standing outside with a bunch of cronies, looking miserable and shouting abuse at anyone who wants to fulfill the terms of their contract.

Are you aware that a contract is an agreement between [b]two or more[/b] parties?

Don't know about anyone else, but I got a contract when I started my job, and I could choose whether to sign it or not.

And if your employer decides to fundamentally change the terms in that contract? Maybe sack you and get you to reapply for the same job for significantly less money, as a cost cutting measure? Oh yes, you could vote with your feet, but if one employer thinks it’s a good idea, what’s to stop the others following suit? A union can't promise to stop you being undervalued, but it least it gives you some recompense. Lots of other good reasons, but I fear I'll be going into banging head against brick wall mode again if I'm not careful...

Also, if something changes which I don't like, I can leave and look for a different job.

You could. But I'd look at the unemployment figures first.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to work in my office, rather than standing outside with a bunch of cronies, looking miserable and shouting abuse at anyone who wants to fulfill the terms of their contract.

Heaven forfend that people stand up for what they believe in, eh?

Is AndyP aware that he is free to withdraw his labour and indeed is not beholden to his employer? 😀

And has the right to vote...?

He has the right to vote? Pfft! They'll be letting women do it before long. And just imagine where that will lead?

What about Darkies, Binners? Surely they don't deserve to be paid equally with decent hard-working White folk?? 😯

Mainly because he really pisses off the up their own arse can't see further than the end of their own noses selfish blinkered idiots who seem to think transportation systems would be better off without properly trained and qualified people to do the jobs...

DLR's doing alright, innit 😉

I assume that this has gone the way I'd expect it to and that there's no point me wasting my time reading it?

It gives a nice precis to those who aren't sure about what Trade Unions are about. I don't have to *prove* anything to you, just as I don't *have* to work somewhere where I am unhappy. Oh, and Wikipedia has a capital W. Bless.

Resorting to insults already. You are done here then.

DLR's doing alright, innit

Yeah it is actually. I shall in fact be using it very shortly, and be comforted by the fact that each train carries a [b]Passenger Service Agent[/b] who is fully trained in dealing with emergencies, as this will enable to me to have more confidence in the service, and feel safer on my journey. 🙂

"On 10 March 1987, before the railway opened, a test train crashed through station buffer stops at the original high-level terminus Island Gardens station and was left hanging from the end of the elevated track. The accident was caused by unauthorised tests being run before accident-preventing modifications had been installed. [b]The train was being driven manually at the time[/b]"

Fodo, can you answer:

Lifer - Member

What data sets do the OBR use then? Can't find refernce to it in the OBR report.

And what you mean by:

Your up to your no good mischief as usual.

What is this Public Sector strike you talk of, its 2011, not 1974, they have about as much chance of achieving anything except widespread ridicule and annoyance from us the public, than geting what they want.

Probably youll soon be tuped or privatised and there will be a huge influx of new workers to do the jobs the old workers didnt turn up at their workplace to do.

And then i woke from my condem dream

Just have your strike. Its a free country, you are allowed to. It's hardly going to bring the country to a standstill but will cause some disruption but thats OK, you do have the right to strike.

But then what?

I think the government should be promoting the strike. I mean what's the pay-bill for a days worth of public sector workers?
They could save a fortune if they could encourage them to take a week off.

[b]they[/b] have about as much chance of achieving anything except widespread ridicule and annoyance from [b]us[/b] the public,

so public sector employees are not the public now?

Public sector don't pay tax? I want a rebate, now.(and was feeling left out as everybody else seems to be here)

The accident was caused by unauthorised tests being run before accident-preventing modifications had been installed. The train was being driven manually at the time"

Ah, that isn't a very good account of what actually happened; I remember it as the station was right next to my school. The driver was ordered to crash the train into the buffers, which as it turned out weren't adequate to actually stop the train. Fortunately no-one was hurt.

However:

[url= http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.10090 ]Serco Limited (Serco) the operator of the Docklands Light Railway were today fined £450,000 and ordered to pay £43,773 costs, following a prosecution for a serious health and safety offence brought by the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR).

The incident resulted in the death of a member of the public, Robert Carter, who fell onto the track and was struck by a train. Today’s sentencing follows a guilty verdict at Southwark Crown Court on 30 April 2010.

The ORR prosecution followed an incident on 2 April 2007 at All Saints DLR station. During an altercation between Mr Carter and another person, Mr Carter was pushed and fell onto the track. A short time later he was struck by a train and fatally injured.

ORR investigated and found that Serco had an inadequate procedure in place for stopping trains in an emergency. The company allowed control room staff to decide whether to stop trains based partly on CCTV images. The CCTV system was not designed or intended for this purpose.[/url]

Basically, the automatic systems weren't adequate. Had a human being been driving that train, that accident would not have happened.

t'wundred?

v8ninety - Member
I'll vote Derekrides... He hasn't got any more of a clue how to fix it than the rest of us, but at least he admits as much.

Why thank you V890, er as it happens i do have a bit of a cunning plan, first it involves me writing a book called 'My Struggle' then I need to organise a sort of National Socialist Party, I'm looking for lieutenants right now, then we need to target a minority group everyone hates, I'm thinking road bikers, mobilise the nation against them (All bankers are road bikers), if you could help with the final solution bit, build some camps, maybe Poland way, talk about some extra living room....

oh oh

😯 Perilously close to Godwin's, that...

Perilously close to Godwin's, that...

New definition of "perilously close"

😉 see how easy it can happen.. Road biking bankers

Well, he didn't actually say [i]the[/i] name.

Sorry to drag things back on track, but surely Public sector workers don't have to pay into the pension, they can opt out? Current benefits are set, and they can look into their own pension arrangements.

Or find another job in the private sector. Would that work for them?

ScottChegg, Yeah, seeing as the government wants to move the goalposts, can I have my contributions (employee and employer) that have been paid in so far back then, so I can chose where to invest them instead? Whats that, the governments gone and spent em on war and [s]banks[/s] [b]bailing out the private sector[/b] and such? The [i]swines[/i].

Edited for added trollbaitiness

So what level of pension per annum is acceptable to the public sector haters?

What do the private sector bods think is reasonable for me to have or to expect anything is unreasonable. I will have paid 11% of my monthly pay for 30yrs?

Go on, tell me how much is too much!

or another way

How much is a reasonable amount to live on in my retirement?

V8ninety - you are probably aware but just in case:

From Hutton:

Ex.9 Protecting accrued rights is a prerequisite for reform both to build trust and
confidence and to protect current workers from a sudden change in their pension benefits
or pension age. It is also right that those closest to retirement will be least affected by any
changes to scheme design.

Recommendation 4: The Government must honour in full the pension promises that
have been accrued by scheme members: their accrued rights. In doing so, the Commission
recommends maintaining the final salary link for past service for current members.

Bruneep - a slightly tangential argument. If, as in the mid part of last century, the government (of whichever party) chooses to reduce the debt by maintaining IR below the rate of growth (which I suspect is what they will try to do) then the annuity income you will get from your pension pot will be pretty poor whatever the size of the actual pot.

But the tragedy of this recent period is those who have been financially sensible have been screwed royally.

THM - what happened to not getting involved 😛

See AGW would have been more fun 😉

But the tragedy of this recent period is those who have been financially sensible have been screwed royally.

I'm ANGRY that a relatively small number of MONUMENTALLY stupid and greedy rich people have screwed up the global economy by employing a fiscal model that would see a private citizen bankrupt within a year, yet no one seemed (or wanted to) to realise at the time that it was all going to go tits up.

Ands whats worse, is whilst we all attack each other and fight over the scraps of the broken economy, those same small number of rich powerful people are laughing all the way to the bank.

There will be no winners in this economic tradgedy. There may be a few greedy players at the top which is an abhorrence. The reality is that all of us will have to accept a reduction in our living standards for the forseeable future.

No one has an automatic right to continual pay increases and unaffordable benefits.

The unions need to realise this otherwise all they will do is create the need for further job losses either for their members or indirectly for others.

There will be no winners in this economic tradgedy.

So. Anyone for a beer? Woody's paying.

There will be no winners in this economic tradgedy.

Beer? Ah go on then, I'll have a guinness, cheers! 8)

Ands whats worse, is whilst we all attack each other and fight over the scraps of the broken economy, those same small number of rich powerful people are laughing all the way to the bank.

It's worse than that. They're now installing unelected prime ministers to do their bidding.

v8ninety - Member
But the tragedy of this recent period is those who have been financially sensible have been screwed royally.

This.
THIS.
My Personal Debt ammounts to a medium sized fixed rate mortgage and a small 0% loan on a sofa. No credit cards, no car loan. My choice. I chose my career, in part, because whilst understanding that I would never get rich, I would be able to provide modestly for my family and be able to retire at a point that I wasn't monumentally knackered, Hopefully. Now they want to change that.
I'm ANGRY that a relatively small number of MONUMENTALLY stupid and greedy rich people have screwed up the global economy by employing a fiscal model that would see a private citizen bankrupt within a year, yet no one seemed (or wanted to) to realise at the time that it was all going to go tits up.

Ands whats worse, is whilst we all attack each other and fight over the scraps of the broken economy, those same small number of rich powerful people are laughing all the way to the bank.

Yes, we are on the same page really aren't we.

There are lots and lots and lots of folk who also feel this way, so how on earth do we motivate each other to actually do something about it I wonder... All around my world I'm watching businesses fail, people being laid off, mainly down to bank intransigence with credit, they have the gall to tell us that our world is risky, when it is only risky a) because of their initial activities and b) because they won't help us to help ourselves because now we're too risky. Talk about catch 22.

Every pub, cafe, business, you go to and chat t the owners or staff all report the same discontent, and still they lecture on about austerity. What we fundamentally need is some sort of leadership with a plan and a promise of sun filled uplands, we know they have to do what they have to do, what we don't need to constantly hear about is how much longer it is going to continue for.

I'm sorry I'm off on another rant now - apologies, it does wind me up so.

Junkyard - Member
THM - what happened to not getting involved

See AGW would have been more fun

I know silly me!! I am truly giddy now!!

Still resisting AGW - too painful to re-open that can.

Repeat note to self - avoid any economic/political threads on STW!!!!

Drac - Moderator

So. Anyone for a beer? Woody's paying.

Bruneep - 30 years at 11% would generate a pension of at most 30% of final salary in a money purchase scheme. That is the problem with pensions they are very expensive in a low inflationary enviroment.

i'm just not convinced you have the general public's backing on this.

[b]Probably don't because of the relentless propaganda from the right wing press for years that has led to a totally false impression of what is going on[/b].