MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
, it has been a sore one just seeing the folk kicking the crap out of my profession without understanding the reality of what schools have been like. It is really nice to see folk supporting us.
I think the vast majority of (thinking) people have understood and supported how hard it has been, and how well many schools have done in incredibly hard circumstances.
My hope is that actions by teachers and schools now will force the government to take the strong and decisive action needed. My fear is that the Tories will want revenge for you all showing them up.
apologies if already said in the thread, but the doc I linked to earlier contains these snippets re how kids might not often become seriously ill, but are very effective at passing it on.....
I can't say I am even slightly surprised. I mean it's not like I (and a bazillion other parents across the planet) didn't suddenly start getting colds, coughs, stomach bugs, flu, and other assorted mild health issues when we had kids go into nursery and school, after years of being disease free.
Frankly I'm amazed the turd shower in power have been attempting to maintain any credibility to the "they're immune to it!" line for this long.
not sure on that susceptibility point - I'll have to look at the doc properly but I don't understand why that would be the case unless it's about %'s - if they are more likely to get it outside the home (like schools!!) then they are proportionally less likely to get it at home as the sum has to be 100%. But absolute numbers may still be high in both.
tojv - I think what it suggests is:
Mum <-> Dad transmission is more likely than Parent --> Child - but that's not a huge surprise:
1. Mum and Dad usually share the same bed, and are intimate.
2. Adults who get sick are more likely to be symptomatic, thus aware and keen to distance and protect the kids.
3. Adults who are sick are likely to be relatively self-sufficient, i.e. they aren't going to be cared for by children under 16.
In contrast, children who get sick are more likely to get the attention/care of a parent thus increasing the risk of Child --> Parent transmission.
plus they're stuffed in a petrie dish diligently distancing in the classroom for 30 hours a week
1. Mum and Dad usually share the same bed, and are intimate.
Not once kids are on the scene.....
apologies if already said in the thread, but the doc I linked to earlier contains these snippets re how kids might not often become seriously ill, but are very effective at passing it on…..
I mentioned this on a vilage facebook group and got a lot of hate.
Maybe using the phrase plague rats WAS a bit over the top.
MASKS, MASKS, MASKS!!!!
If we must have the schools open (and I don’t think we should – we live in Rushmoor, with the highest infection rate in the country and the primary schools are still open) why on earth can’t we have the children and staff wearing masks in class??? Lots of other countries do it, it doesn’t affect the economy, doesn’t affect the childrens mental health, to me its a total no-brainer………….
Kids have been wearing masks here in Bavaria since they returned to school last year. They seem to just accept it and get on with it without too much drama.
Although there's currently debate about whether the kids should return at the end of the week and it's looking unlikely they won't.
On the face of it, Kids, especially under 11s aren’t getting sick from Covid, and don’t easily spread it.
No, it's been proven that people under 17 are much more likely to spread the virus.
Are Teachers getting Covid at a higher rate than the rest of the public? They don’t seem to be locally at least.
Yes, in my place of work anyway.
I can’t help but think that this has come about because of the Public Sector pay freeze and Teachers not being put into the Phase 1 vaccine role-out rather than their occupation being anymore risky than any other.
No, this is about health and safety.
Kids have been wearing masks here in Bavaria
As they have in lots of other countries, really can't see why we in the UK can't bring this in............
the risk to teachers is no more than any other person in any other proffession
Kids have been wearing masks here in Bavaria
As they have in lots of other countries, really can’t see why we in the UK can’t bring this in…………
Because the Daily Mail/Kirsty Alsopp/Julia Hartley-Brewer/Desmond Swayne axis of libertarian stupidity would go into nicker-wetting meltdown and compare it to fascism, and Boris won't do anything to upset this lot as they're all his core support.
And if more people die, well they'll probably be old, poor, northern, lefties or all of the above, so who cares?
the risk to teachers is no more than any other person in any other proffession
It clearly isn't, how is someone who works from home every day at the same risk as someone who stands in a small stuffy room with 30 kids?
the risk to teachers is no more than any other person in any other proffession
What is open to debate is A - whether they need be exposed to that risk, and B - in the middle of a global pandemic, need the government facilitate the spread of the disease by insisting schools stay open.
the risk to teachers is no more than any other person in any other proffession
Congratulations. Truly the most mind-bendingly stupid statement you could possibly make. Take a bow.
You are Kirsty Alsopp and I claim my artisan handcrafted respirator
Our school just announced at lunchtime (in-service day today) that the kids can't come back tomorrow as too many teachers have called in.
No great surprise and I support them, but feel this should have come from government last week - not last minute from the school.
Kids have been wearing masks here in Bavaria
As they have in lots of other countries, really can’t see why we in the UK can’t bring this in…………
tbf it’s just England. Wales, Scotland and NI got all this sorted in various ways weeks ago and must also be looking on in disbelief as England is still pissing about with this.
No great surprise and I support them, but feel this should have come from government last week – not last minute from the school.
Absolutely this. None of it has been hard to foresee, but the government has seemed committed to doing the littlest action as late has possible.
As they have in lots of other countries, really can’t see why we in the UK can’t bring this in…………
Mask wearing at my lads college since October. Only teacher to test positive so far started the September term with it. No other teachers have had it since, though kids running around 3-5 positives a week.
the risk to teachers is no more than any other person in any other proffession
What a load of twaddle!
the risk to teachers is no more than any other person in any other proffession
Congratulations. Truly the most mind-bendingly stupid statement you could possibly make. Take a bow.
You are Kirsty Alsopp and I claim my artisan handcrafted respirator
What a load of twaddle!
I fully agree with both of you 100 %
However, I was not quoting the great Kirsty Allslopp , but our magnificent leader Boris Johnson , on the Lunchtime news ....today.
After rewinding it on the Iplayer to check he had indeed said such a thing , I realised that I had , alas got the words wrong and so his actual quote, verbatim was.....
"the risk to teachers is no greater than it is to any body else in any other line of work"
And this ladies and gentlemen is what we are dealing with..
#edited after evidence of sarcasm detected...
Our glorious leader? That figures
I should have known really
The level of willful stupidity is absolutely off the scale
I was going to add that it's difficult to imagine how anyone could make such a statement with a straight face, but he doesn't even do that, does he? There's always that trace of a smirk on his stupid, fat, gurning mug
Just had the email from our lad’s (yr3) school to say closed for the week from tomorrow. (Today was an insect day.) Nothing like having time to plan. The school has my full support though. A decision which should have been made last week.
I was going to add that it’s difficult to imagine how anyone could make such a statement with a straight face, but he doesn’t even do that, does he? There’s always that trace of a smirk on his stupid, fat, gurning mug
His PR man obviously told him to wear his mask at all times when spouting shite so we couldnt see the smirk on his face. Quite why he had to touch elbows with the hospital staff was beyond me. Absolutely no need for it . The prick clearly hasn't learnt a thing
Kids have been wearing masks here in Bavaria
tbf it’s just England. Wales, Scotland and NI got all this sorted in various ways weeks ago and must also be looking on in disbelief as England is still pissing about with this.
Not that easy to implement given the stories I've heard from friends' kids. Teachers not enforcing masks, older/cooler kids refusing to wear them, other kids opting not to wear them because the aforementioned kids take the pi55 out of them, and so on.
Not that easy to implement given the stories I’ve heard from friends’ kids.
It's all anecdotal but the teachers I know in France haven't had many problems getting the kids to wear masks, and the French don't like being told what to do............
Because the Daily Mail/Kirsty Alsopp/Julia Hartley-Brewer/Desmond Swayne axis of libertarian stupidity would go into nicker-wetting meltdown
I don't read the Mail so I haven't seen that, is making children wear masks in class worse than making them wear masks in shops?? I guess if you're a Mail reader it could be, christ - those people..............
This is what science and logic is up against
Don't let primary school aged children drive you anywhere. And don't catch broken bones off them either.
That is relatively accurate though. It doesn't cause issues for most children.
The issue that they are wilfully ignoring is that when infected they can pass it on nicely to those who could be affected by it.
an opinion plus an internet connection can be a dangerous thing.
TiRed - any advice on what stitching I should employ for home made cushion covers?
That is relatively accurate though. It doesn’t cause issues for most children.
The issue that they are wilfully ignoring is that when infected they can pass it on nicely to those who could be affected by it.
Indeed. I haven't been following whatever drama Kirsty Allsop is brewing, but she's not wrong in that tweet posted up there. Of course there are a few caveats - the main one being that the risk of covid is potentially preventable with action whereas the other risks she mentions are mostly not modifiable.
People who are concerned about children's welfare are probably overestimating the impact of the disease on children. E.g. We don't stop driving cars / act on pollution because single figures of poor kids die of bad asthma each year. We don't ban trampolines etc. Maybe we should, but that's a different argument. The point is that the scale of the problem in children is extremely small.
Teachers have been treated badly by successive governments and I would usually support their plight completely. They have been successful in getting their current message recognised but I'm not convinced it stands up to scrutiny. E.g. I don't see why teachers should be seen as higher risk than bus drivers or checkout workers etc considering the number of human interactions these professions have. I haven't seen any data on the proportion of teachers who have fallen ill vs other professions - this would be interesting.
The big issue with schools is that of course, children can spread the disease. That's why closing schools could be part of another national lockdown.
TLDR: I am in favour of another proper lockdown, which I think is inevitable. I just don't see why teachers are more deserving of sympathy than the other professions with people-facing roles.
thankfully my daughters school has just confirmed they will not reopen till at least mid Jan
TLDR: I am in favour of another proper lockdown, which I think is inevitable. I just don’t see why teachers are more deserving of sympathy than the other professions with people-facing roles.
I don't particularly think they're asking for it, but the debate around schools is curiously focused on the danger of Covid to children, which ignores the very real issues of schools as a transmission vector and the (arguably unnecessary) risk to school staff - on the back of that, you've got elements of the media trying to turn it into another Lazy Lefty Teachers story, and the government changing its mind on covid/school policy approximately every five minutes (which means that teachers can't plan, or have to keep amending plans,on top of their normal workload which is already massively expanded by having to cater for both classroom and remote learning, and of course that they might get sick and die or kill relatives). Note, of course, that Ofsted inspectors are not currently inspecting schools because it's too dangerous, but all school staff are otherwise expected to lump it.
I think people are going to have to learn about relative safety. There's no such thing as a Covid-safe place, any more than there is a crash-resistant car or trip-proof playground.
We need to, as a society, decide what risks we are comfortable with to maintain our way of life. Which is difficult because the average person doesn't understand probability.
TLDR: I am in favour of another proper lockdown, which I think is inevitable. I just don’t see why teachers are more deserving of sympathy than the other professions with people-facing roles.
My wife is a SENCo in a large secondary School.
They have had literally no PPE since this whole thing kicked off last year, are working with teenagers who struggle with/don't care about hygiene or social distancing, and have been given conflicting/confusing advice from the Government since day 01.
An example being they've been told to keep all internal doors open within the school to keep air flowing/adequate ventilation - The local fire brigade gave them 30mins to reverse this when they did a building safety inspection before Christmas..
She generally finds out what is going on from the news before they are told at work..
They are all genuinely sh*t scared of contracting COVID at work and dying.
Next week they are supposed to be supervising kids doing their own COVID tests twice a week, and working on the assumption that the results of these tests are accurate.
As she said when we were discussing this a few days ago - anyone who thinks teenagers will successfully carry out swab tests on themselves obviously haven't seen them trying to glue a worksheet into an exercise book.
Whereas the employees in McDonalds seem to have all the PPE they need and are hidden behind a Perspex screen.
Teachers have been thrown under the bus by that c*nt Williamson.
I think people are going to have to learn about relative safety. There’s no such thing as a Covid-safe place, any more than there is a crash-resistant car or trip-resistant playground.
Well, without children or staff in, schools are pretty safe... 😉 It's not like alternatives are impossible, even if the current government may choose not to consider them.
Teachers have been thrown under the bus by that c*nt Williamson.
Seems like a fairly accurate if slightly restrained assessment. Were they going to get any PPE to carry out testing on school premises, I wonder?
Brighton primary Schools are closed.
i'm in 2 minds about this - my wife is a teacher - she thinks schools should be open whereas i'm less concerned. But then our kids are not in a particularly important part of their school career (like A level or GCSE)
the unions are campaigning for the teachers safety only and and this doesnt necessarily reflect the wills of the actual teachers. we all rely on tesco drivers and shop staff and doctors and nurses to do their jobs - surely we can rely on teachers to do theirs - their work is just as essential?
its important to understand that teachers dont want to not work at all - they want to teach kids its just the medium of how this happens may vary from the traditional bums-on-seats approach.
quite alot of families have a vulnerable person within the family/support group be it parent, grandparent etc. therefore this will affect whether a teachers is able to attend school (due to not wanting to pass covid on) which is completely understandable
once you lose two or 3 teachers from a school, for given period then, for the school, actually organising the teacher cover and classes and providing actual, meaningful, teaching (rather than just childcare) is super tricky.
As such i can see why heads/unions want to keep schools shut in a period of uncertainty. The main issue is that teachers/schools havent really got a grip of how best to teach kids at home. and kids learning is suffering because of this.
I cant understand why thre are calls to not have GCSEs or a levels this year though - thats just daft. the kids need a purpose to do some work!
Ofsted inspectors are not currently inspecting schools because it’s too dangerous, but all school staff are otherwise expected to lump it.
Head of Ofsted was doing the media rounds this week explaining why schools must stay open to all pupils.
I cant understand why thre are calls to not have GCSEs or a levels this year though
Because many pupils have been in and out of school all last term, or have had their teachers missing for long periods, due to illness, positive tests and/or isolating. And this term is going to be worse still for many... I think everyone can see that now... or should be able to. Spending last summer properly updating the syllabus and materials and teaching approach to ensure those not always on site could face exams with the same preparation as those that are, could well have enabled fair exams this year.. but ploughing on into the autumn term pretending the school year would be close to normal has made England wide exam only assessment untenable.
I cant understand why thre are calls to not have GCSEs or a levels this year though – thats just daft. the kids need a purpose to do some work!
The calls are for teacher assessment instead. As has been pointed out much earlier in this thread - continuous assessment is likely to incentivize more than one off exams.
Were they going to get any PPE to carry out testing on school premises, I wonder?
Rumour has it the teachers are not going to be actually doing/supervising the testing - the schools have been told to recruit volunteers locally, get them screened (CRB or whatever its called now) and have all this in place for when the kids return...
I can't imagine there'll be a huge quee of willing volunteers?
I cant understand why thre are calls to not have GCSEs or a levels this year though – thats just daft. the kids need a purpose to do some work!
Because some kids have now missed 6+ months of school in the last 12 months.
My daughter was talking to a mate who goes to a different local school just before Christmas - this girl had been in School 7 days out of the 7 weeks between Oct half term and Christmas due to 3 separate periods of isolation.
They're now probably going to miss another 6-7 weeks between now and feb half term - how can it possibly be fair to put these kids in for exams??
Our son's primary is online only from tomorrow.
We are lucky that our jobs are flexible enough for us to be able to work and do learning with him. He will be allowed to watch some films and play games though as we can't do all day with him
we all rely on tesco drivers and shop staff and doctors and nurses to do their jobs – surely we can rely on teachers to do theirs
It is FAR more risky being a teacher right now. Close contact with no masks with hundreds of other people every day. Deliver drivers here are being very cautious by stepping back before the door is opened and wearing a mask. In shops staff are wearing masks and can keep their distance.
I admire any teacher willing to go back into a classroom right now. I'm a teacher and not willing.
They’re now probably going to miss another 6-7 weeks between now and feb half term – how can it possibly be fair to put these kids in for exams??
Still better than more deaths.
this
Because some kids have now missed 6+ months of school in the last 12 months.
My daughter was talking to a mate who goes to a different local school just before Christmas – this girl had been in School 7 days out of the 7 weeks between Oct half term and Christmas due to 3 separate periods of isolation.
is because of this:
The main issue is that teachers/schools havent really got a grip of how best to teach kids at home. and kids learning is suffering because of this.
as i mentioned earlier. Also just because they are not at school doesnt mean they were not learning.
kids can be fairly resilient and some form of testing is definatley required. at present the only form available is GCSE/A Level. These are statistically graded so even if the overall standard id shit you`ll get a grade based on your knowledge. there may need to be mitigting adjustment based on days missed etc (much like when i was at school when my mate missed a chunk of school through illness).
To be fair to teachers coming up with online resources and teaching techniques, while manging your own kids and home issues must be bloody hard. alot of available online resources are not relevant to the new required teaching method.
The main issue is that teachers/schools haven't really got a grip of how best to teach kids at home.
Maybe if they'd been given some warning that that's what they'd be expected to do, they might be a bit more prepared. But this shower of imbeciles have been insisting that wouldn't be happening and that all the kids would be there in person. They were even threatening legal action against schools that failed to facilitate that
Maybe if there was an education department that was fit for purpose and offered guidance, support and resources to do so, instead of flailing around in a pit of their own rank incompetence while expecting teachers and schools to just get on with it and make it up as they go along?
If you're looking for blame for this rolling shitshow, look no further than our alledged Education Secretary. Anyone seen the hapless buffoon lately? Perhaps he's filming?
we've just had to notify all parents we will be opening up the School tomorrow as planned unless things change before 8.30am tomorrow morning........now wonder if we've got enough time to agree a new Risk Management protocol for tomorrow before it needs to go in the bin at 8pm
what a shambles
Spoke to the head of our school today and informed her that our son will not be attending tomorrow (or until there is clarity from the ****ing idiots at Westminster) due to the fact that my wife and 3 year old daughter are both considered high risk. She was great and very understanding as usual.
I also told her that, according to Mrs F, other parents on a FB group are going to pretend their kids are ill. She laughed and sighed. Why are some adults like kids? Ooh the headmistress might shout at me 😄
We are fortunate in that Mrs F is a stay at home mum with our daughter. This means the school can forward work by mail. Mrs F can then put Hey Duggee and Peppa bastard Pig on a loop so she can spend time with Funk Jr on his school work.
Why are some adults like kids?
Lying to keep kids off is to avoid legal recourse. Blame the law.
We explained the real reason when we kept our lad off for a few days last term (and he was then asked to self isolate while he was off in the end). Be honest with schools… ignore the law and threats of fines, even when reiterated by the “PM” as recently as September. Schools will not, at this time, act against anyone being honest and keeping their kids at home for Covid related reasons, if they have told them that is what they are doing.
Lying to keep kids off is to avoid legal recourse. Blame the law.
I agree with the second bit of your post. Just be honest with them. If we got in trouble with the law for it I honestly wouldn’t care under current circumstances. Safety of my family comes first. Really feel sorry for teachers and other school staff. They are being treated like shit by a bunch of incompetent buffoons
The main issue is that teachers/schools havent really got a grip of how best to teach kids at home. and kids learning is suffering because of this.
Teachers and schools haven't got to grips with it because the government plans constantly change (see: going from "schools almost stay open" to "we must close schools" over the last 24 hours, also the three different directives that have gone out to schools over the Christmas holidays, etc etc etc), so planning is a constant firefight with goalposts that move all the time. It's not like, say, a production line where you can have supply chain issues, notify your customers that you expect X delays and off you pop - it's more like planning a moonshot, with a (broadly!) fixed destination to aim at, only now take-off keeps being moved to different places, then you have to suddenly cater for two smaller moonshots run in very different ways without getting any extra resource, and some of the astronaut crew have all their own shiny kit, some have bits, some have none, but you've still got to land them all on the moon.
People’s faith in this shower of shit government has been eroded to the point it has become dangerous for all. The back and forth, inability to stick to a decision and general ****tery has resulted in large swathes of the population choosing to ignore them completely. Without solid leadership and really harsh measures in place like huge, enforceable fines this is just going to drag on and on.
Binners wins the internet!!!!
Well, daughters secondary school banged an out email straight away - 3 live lessons via Teams each day, and "registration" at 8.45 each morning for which they should be dressed.
Not sure how long they can keep that up, but fair play to them.
Like!
Well, daughters secondary school banged an out email straight away – 3 live lessons via Teams each day, and “registration” at 8.45 each morning for which they should be dressed.
Not sure how long they can keep that up, but fair play to them.
Dont think this is a good idea tbh, families need flexibility to do the work when they can if it is limited.
Exams cancelled too after that clown Williamson saying since July they definitely wouldn't be...
Waving data charges as suggested above will just swamp the mobile networks - and impact the millions of people who are already struggling to work from home in order to keep a roof over their family’s heads.
This analysis shows that children and young people are more likely to
bring the virus into the household than those aged 17+. They are also less
likely to catch the virus within the household. This is consistent with
previous analysis of household transmission (14 October).
• External exposure shows how likely someone is to be the first case in
their household. Young people (aged 2-16) are much more likely than
those aged 17+ to be the first case in their household. In particular, those
aged 12 to 16 are nearly 7 times as likely to be the first case in their
household, compared to those 17+.
• Transmissibility shows how likely someone is to pass the virus on within
the household, if they are the first positive case. The analysis shows that 2
– 16 year olds are more than twice as likely to pass on the virus within their
household compared to people aged 17+.
• Susceptibility shows how likely someone is to catch the virus, if someone
else in their household has brought it in. Children aged 16 or under are
less likely to get the virus from someone within their household compared
to people aged 17+
Dont think this is a good idea tbh, families need flexibility to do the work when they can if it is limited.
Families who can't will presumably contact the school to see what alternatives can be sorted out. Or not bother at all anyway, depending on the family. Not sure the efforts made for the majority (yes, middle class privilege) should be binned for those less fortunate?
will just swamp the mobile networks
By making access to sites such as…
https://www.thenational.academy
…not count against your data allowance?
Absolutely not. And bear in mind I used to work in this sector. They can cope just fine. It’s nothing compared to making football match video streams not count against data allowances, etc.
Families who can’t will presumably contact the school to see what alternatives can be sorted out. Or not bother at all anyway, depending on the family. Not sure the efforts made for the majority (yes, middle class privilege) should be binned for those less fortunate?
I disagree.
I disagree
We'll agree to disagree then.
I totally understand how those less fortunate will get left behind - both of us work or have worked with that demographic.
However, pitching our educational efforts to the lowest common denominator for an indeterminate amount of time may be just as counter productive at a societal level. Maybe a broader definition of "vulnerable" kids who would benefit from going into school is a better answer, I don't know. For some schools that could mean more attending than home schooling.
So little data on this (the government keeps using the line “no evidence”, but they haven’t been looking)… there is some now though…
https://www.tes.com/news/exclusive-teacher-covid-rates-333-above-average
there is some now though…
Comments from the previous page are ageing well.
Can everyone access that without logging on?
Here are some highlights
In Leeds, the rate for secondary school staff was more than four times that of the general population or 333 per cent higher.
The data shows that the prevalence rate was, on average, 1089.5 for primary staff and 1750.5 for secondary staff, compared to 404.3 for the LA as a whole. This average was taken for a period spanning from the week ending 19 October to the week ending 20 November.
And in Birmingham, the rate among school staff was more than three times higher than the local average. The data shows that, across the same time period, the prevalence rate was, on average, 1146.1 for primary staff and 1027.2 for secondary staff, compared to 312.2 for the LA as a whole. This excludes the half-term week.
In Greenwich, London, the prevalence rate was also significantly higher for school staff – at, on average, 264 for staff across primary and secondary schools, compared to 98 for the LA as a whole. However this average was taken for a longer period – spanning from early September to the end of November.
However, pitching our educational efforts to the lowest common denominator for an indeterminate amount of time may be just as counter productive at a societal level. Maybe a broader definition of “vulnerable” kids who would benefit from going into school is a better answer, I don’t know. For some schools that could mean more attending than home schooling.
Its not easy, more kids in school would mean more staff and less to do the live lessons for those not in school and you can still set challenging work without it being live. Most kids wouldnt turn up to live lessons, my school is only doing them for sixth form.