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Be careful what you wish for, you do realise TJ being signed off sick until retirement will leave more time for squabbling on here?
I've come for the 10 minute argument!
Openly recording does not go down well.
Although it leaves very little room for confusion over what was said / agreed.
Openly recording does not go down well.
Forcing people out of a job or denying them their full pension also does not go down well.
If you won’t take a corroborating witness who will take notes then at least insist on taking an accurate record of the meeting
IIRC, you are legally entitled to recording a conversation that involves yourself - management policies may have some sort of get out clause for this IANAL
TJ: I might have skim read and missed the initial cause of your injury, but are you aware of Industrial Injury/Disablement
andy - lifting my bike over a fence was the initial cause
bloody tandems!
😉
It is not so much the recording of the meeting - but how you do it and what you will do with that recording. It is unlikely to be admissible in court unless certain conditions have been met.
If you let people know and they agree to the recording and the purpose e.g. so you can transcribe later, then it should not be a problem to record the meeting.
I thought I would do a little update in case anyone is interested. WE had a telephone "case conference" with the HR and OH doc. this case conference was supposed to be two weeks after that last meeting but was 9 weeks.
I am now much better than I was but still slightly incapacitated.
I had great fun pointing out the delays ( I have been asking for a temporary relocation for 6 months but no longer need it) and also pointing out where they had not followed policy and where the reports created and the minutes of the last meeting were wrong. HR was totally silent and no one challenged where I said stuff was wrong. That means Imy version is now accepted as right and they have accepted they were wrong. Pointing out the inaccuracies in the previous minutes and the outright wrong statements in the report got a sharp intake of breath from HR but no challenge to my statements.
Decisions - when I am back at work after isolation I remain working under the light duties protocol. They will get the moving and handling folk to see me again on the ward and this time I will use that to point out all the tasks I have to do that are outside the moving and handling policy. No mention of redeployment. NO mention of going back to full time. I insisted on a full moving and handling audit on the ward and that I have imput into this ( usually done by the bosses who do not point out issues and hide them from the H&S folk. I will point out all the issues.
this will destroy my working relationship with my line manager ( who was not present but will see the minutes) but that was dodgy anyway. Thats a pity.
I think they now understand that I cannot be bullshitted nor pushed around. I am normally very co operative at work and do not cause issues and I am sure they underestimated me. Its great fun quoting policy at them. I doubt many workers actually read and memorise policy!
its opened a whole big can of worms over the working environment that they can no longer ignore. Gonna be a huge issue for the bosses
So all looking good for me.
That'll be the NHS in a real crisis now.
OK, OK!!! I'll use bloody Putoline, just promise you won't get on my case like you did on their's... 🙂
I say again, I would hate to be in an HR meeting with you TJ.
I'd also be asking you if now is the time to be pushing buttons of other NHS staff, but I guess that was something that you had in mind anyway.
🙂
Lunge - I had to protect myself. They were clearly attempting to set up pa situation where they could sack me.
they gave me two hours photocopying a day to do and left me sat on my own in an office with nothing to do the rest of the time
That sounds like my ideal job
And mine! I’ve got 140Gb of music and roughly 600 ebooks on my phone, sitting on my own in an office would be fine, just so long as I’ve got a comfy chair and access to tea making facilities!
Regarding a five mile commute, and six hours a week doing it, I’ve now got a fifteen mile commute, thirty miles a day, which is about one and a half hours total, so 155 miles a week, 7.5 hours approximately.
And I walk somewhere around five miles a day.
But I’ve actually got a job, which I enjoy, and getting somewhere around £22k/pa, rather than stacking shelves for bugger-all.
Personally, I’d rather be able to walk to work, but the job I had that let me do that for eleven years ended with what amounted to workplace bullying and panic attacks and worry about my mental health - I’ll put up with the commute.
Probably the final update
I am being moved to another ward that is 7 miles away. Ostensibly because it a better moving and handling environment ( bollox and rather late 🙂 ) and they are probably going to be opening mothballed wards where my skills will be useful ( some sense in that) Given the current situation it seemed churlish to make any more fuss although I could have and could have caused a lot more trouble.
I will be getting travel expenses and travel in paid time. Because I'm a good guy ( or to take the moral high ground) rather than taking a taxi every day and turning up late / leaving early I am going to ride my new ebike and take the travel time as time as TOIL so sving them significant money and making life easier for my new charge nurse
Somewhat mixed feelings about this but overall its positive bar having to leave my house at 6am not 6.45
Your travel is counted towards your work time? Do you realise how good you've got it?
tj I think you are very lucky to have the employer you do, anyone else would have got shot of you months ago for breaking rule number 1. Remember it's your personal circumstances that sparked this in the first place and your expectations over commuting have been frankly laughable. Glad it's now resolved for the time being. You might have been right throughout this but I don't think you are correct.
stumpy - if they had they would have been facing an unfair dismissal claim with punative damages possible. I accepted after hearing folk on here that my view on commuting was wrong.
Policies and employment law are there for good reason. But yes - a decent outcome in the end. It is / was a situation with no real good outcomes
tjagain
I will be getting travel expenses and travel in paid time. Because I’m a good guy ( or to take the moral high ground) rather than taking a taxi every day and turning up late / leaving early I am going to ride my new ebike and take the travel time as time as TOIL so sving them significant money and making life easier for my new charge nurse
Wow! Gobsmacked. So you have a 7 mile commute each way. And get paid for your commute! And get travel expenses?! You are taking the travel time as time off in lieu?!
Amazing! It's like you're living in some kind of alternate reality, to be honest.
So, what is 14 miles by e-bike a day? Call it an hour? So for a 5 day week, you are going to get ~5 hours off as time in lieu!? I wish I could get that kind of deal!
You work for the NHS don't you? Is this a common thing? Do all NHS staff get paid (or time in lieu) just for 'going to work'?!
Typically it’s 15 mins per 10 mile or part of so 30 minutes a day.
Still 7 miles a day is far better than 5 you were so unhappy about. 😂
You work for the NHS don’t you? Is this a common thing? Do all NHS staff get paid (or time in lieu) just for ‘going to work’?!
No, only because of relocation due to a restructure, alternative employment or covering away from a base sight.
So, they've bent over backwards to relocate you, to a ward that has less negative effect on your health, and your getting TOIL and travelling expenses.
Do you use brasso on your neck, or does it shine naturally?
So, they’ve bent over backwards to relocate you, to a ward that has less negative effect on your health, and your getting TOIL and travelling expenses.
Do you brasso on your neck?
^This
Given the current situation it seemed churlish to make any more fuss
I think that covers it perfectly, you could be a good deal much worse off.
Getting paid expenses for normal commute is a taxable benefit so don't forget to declare it.
Good to hear you got a positive outcome. It always amazes me how badly organisations like the NHS handle HR matters in the early proceedings.
Mrs D had a stage 4 (final warning/dismissal stage) meeting and the ward manager got more of a bollocking than she did as the preceding 3 stages had not really been followed properly and a whole load of stuff not recorded/ recorded incorrectly.
Left them nowhere to go in the end.
Do you brasso on your neck?
Couldny give him a red neck with a blowtorch
Getting paid expenses for normal commute is a taxable benefit so don’t forget to declare it.
But in this case it's travel to a different location from the usual place of work, hence not a benefit.
A neck an axe couldnae mark.....
Mrs D had a stage 4 (final warning/dismissal stage) meeting and the ward manager got more of a bollocking than she did as the preceding 3 stages had not really been followed properly and a whole load of stuff not recorded/ recorded incorrectly.
What’s happened there is you’ve mistaken the entire NHS which is made up of many entities all with a different HR department with your wife’s boss.
Anyway TJ it’s the outcome that should have been offered first a suitable adjustment for both parties. It’s not always possible which is why it can lead to dismissal but in your case once you accepted a bit of a commute it was.
I'm sure that TJ being an altruistic chap will spend the time he is "working", or having fun on his ebike, doing other things to help the NHS in their hour of need
Drac - I have been asking for this for more than 6 months - its not really needed now as I am 99% healed. They would not even offer me this previously.
My ward manager has been trying to get me shifted ; under redeployment ( wrong under policy and leaves me very vulnerable to dismissal) or fired ( again wrong under policy)
there is lots more in the background here as well that I really should not go into but lets just say my ward manager now has her wish - I am off her staff roster
If the management had followed policy then I wouldn't have had to fight so hard. Because they have not followed policy then they have to basically offer sweeteners as they know that if I really dug my heels in several of the managers would be getting disciplined for not following procedure /bullying
Private sector don't always get it right either - previous in the private sector when someone wanted rid of me in a similar situation I was entitled to one months notice and £400. I got 7 months garden leave and £7000.
Join a union, read policies.
The responses on here to someone getting what they are legally entitled to remind me why I will almost certainly never be able to work in the UK again.
I don't know why people spend so much time tearing down others when what they should be doing is organising and getting a better deal for themselves and their co-workers.
Scandinavia has ruined me for any other country.
The responses on here to someone getting what they are legally entitled to remind me why I will almost certainly never be able to work in the UK again.
Tbh, my comments are tongue in cheek, and I'm sure TJ is long enough in the tooth to understand that. I'm pleased for him the situation has worked out well, and his career won't end on a sour note.
Tbh, my comments are tongue in cheek, and I’m sure TJ is long enough in the tooth to understand that
Are you using the Edinborough Defence?
I’m sure that TJ being an altruistic chap will spend the time he is “working”, or having fun on his ebike, doing other things to help the NHS in their hour of need
Nah, he's got another chain to putoline!
Edinburgh
Are you using the Edinborough Defence?
The where now?..
If the management had followed policy then I wouldn’t have had to fight so hard. Because they have not followed policy then they have to basically offer sweeteners as they know that if I really dug my heels in several of the managers would be getting disciplined for not following procedure /bullying
Very much this ^
I was a right thorn in the side of management in FS when they didn't abide by their policies.
Conversations went along the line of...
"I dont make the policy, I just follow it to the letter. If you do the same there would be no need for the chat we are having now"
Drac – I have been asking for this for more than 6 months – its not really needed now as I am 99% healed. They would not even offer me this previously.
Like I say it’s the offer that should have been offered first.
7 mile commute is ideal. Bit of exercise, not too long to be a pain.
1000ft of climbing and I have to be there for 7am clean and sweat free. then home again after 12 hrs physical work
ebike?
Definitely something the OP should look into. I hear the Tongsheng kits are quite good now.ebike?
1000ft of climbing and I have to be there for 7am
You should be home in a flash then.
Every cloud etc...
So it's TJ 1 NHS 0
Maybe you need to think about how many items of PPE your subsidised ride to work is costing. I understand that your employers are, in your opinion, a bunch of incompetents but reporting your "win" in the current climate seems rather crass.
But TJ is the NHS? Not two separate things
Its a score draw. I have avoided being sacked for being injured and reporting malpractice that puts me and my colleagues at risk. My ward manager got rid of me which she as been trying to do since the injury.
I was offered to be ferried each way in a taxi and to work different hours to the rest of the ward ie arrive late, finish early. I am going to cycle instead on my ebike at a cost of £700 to me and to work normal hours. My way is a LOT cheaper and less disruptive. Travelling expenses will be so low I probably will not bother claiming. Even if I do its a tenner a month not £20 a day which a taxi would be
Nor was I reporting this as a win - I thought some folk might be interested how it all turned out. Its not a win.